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Thread sorting issue

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Brian

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Jan 20, 2014, 12:22:39 PM1/20/14
to
With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
each other, different subject, etc.

Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
resolution, this happens several times a week and is rather annoying.

Top message

Message-ID: <W0tVt.18269$Mq1....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com>


nested message

Message-ID: <52dd208f$0$17165$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com>

Pneuma

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Jan 20, 2014, 12:43:15 PM1/20/14
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800, Brian <Br...@yourguess.com> wrote:

> With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
> if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
> each other, different subject, etc.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
> resolution, this happens several times a week and is rather annoying.

If the messages of the same "references:" line then they will be grouped
together.

References: <ut7jf290joqa4lmvj...@4ax.com>
<l8cjf2hv0puar9n7i...@4ax.com>
<4j2kf29admujef0i7...@4ax.com>





--
Pneuma is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXmLtbetuF0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma

Nick Spalding

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Jan 20, 2014, 1:11:57 PM1/20/14
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Brian wrote, in <simqd9hfvh6fhpruj...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800:
You have encountered the Hash Collision problem. Threads are identified by a
hash number and sometimes two unrelated unrelated messages hash the same. It is
more likely to happen if there are a large number of messages in a folder.
--
Nick Spalding
IE9, Vista Home Premium SP2, 32 bit, Intel Viiv dual core
E6300 (1.86Ghz, 1066MHz FSB), 2GB RAM, 320GB NTFS HD,
Video Nvidia GeForce 7900GS LCD 1024x768x75Hz

Ralph Fox

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Jan 20, 2014, 1:20:40 PM1/20/14
to
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800, Brian wrote:

> With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
> if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
> each other, different subject, etc.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
> resolution,


A. For the particular case below, turn off the setting
"Enable threading by subject" which is at
"Tools >> Options >> Display >> Message List Pane".
To see the difference, you may need to change the message
list sort and change it back.

And yes the two messages do have different subjects. But
the two subjects have the same hashcode 0x110730A in Agent,
which is what is confusing Agent.


B. Other examples of the problem may have a different cause.
This can also happen if one message's Message-ID has the
same hashcode as one of the MIDs in the other message's
"References" header.


> this happens several times a week and is rather annoying.
>
> Top message
>
> Message-ID: <W0tVt.18269$Mq1....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com>
>
>
> nested message
>
> Message-ID: <52dd208f$0$17165$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com>


--
Kind regards
Ralph

Lab Lover

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Jan 20, 2014, 1:27:50 PM1/20/14
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:43:15 -0800, Pneuma <frank...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800, Brian <Br...@yourguess.com> wrote:
>
>> With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
>> if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
>> each other, different subject, etc.
>>
>> Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
>> resolution, this happens several times a week and is rather annoying.
>
>If the messages of the same "references:" line then they will be grouped
>together.
>
>References: <ut7jf290joqa4lmvj...@4ax.com>
><l8cjf2hv0puar9n7i...@4ax.com>
><4j2kf29admujef0i7...@4ax.com>

Thank you!

Brian

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Jan 20, 2014, 1:28:41 PM1/20/14
to
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:11:57 +0000, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

>Brian wrote, in <simqd9hfvh6fhpruj...@4ax.com>
> on Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800:
>
>> With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
>> if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
>> each other, different subject, etc.
>>
>> Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
>> resolution, this happens several times a week and is rather annoying.
>>
>> Top message
>>
>> Message-ID: <W0tVt.18269$Mq1....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com>
>>
>>
>> nested message
>>
>> Message-ID: <52dd208f$0$17165$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com>
>
>You have encountered the Hash Collision problem. Threads are identified by a
>hash number and sometimes two unrelated unrelated messages hash the same. It is
>more likely to happen if there are a large number of messages in a folder.

How does one view the hash #?

Brian

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Jan 20, 2014, 1:30:54 PM1/20/14
to
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:20:40 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:22:39 -0800, Brian wrote:
>
>> With thread sorting enabled, the following two messages are nested as
>> if they are part of the same thread, They have no relationship to
>> each other, different subject, etc.
>>
>> Can anyone shed some light on this and recommend a possible
>> resolution,
>
>
>A. For the particular case below, turn off the setting
> "Enable threading by subject" which is at
> "Tools >> Options >> Display >> Message List Pane".
> To see the difference, you may need to change the message
> list sort and change it back.
>
> And yes the two messages do have different subjects. But
> the two subjects have the same hashcode 0x110730A in Agent,
> which is what is confusing Agent.
>
How does one view the hash code of individual messages? Also when I
disable the setting mentioned above, how will the threads be sorted?


>
>B. Other examples of the problem may have a different cause.
> This can also happen if one message's Message-ID has the
> same hashcode as one of the MIDs in the other message's
> "References" header.
>

I appreciate your assistance.

Ralph Fox

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Jan 20, 2014, 3:01:01 PM1/20/14
to
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 10:30:54 -0800, Brian wrote:

> How does one view the hash code of individual messages?


The following parts of the message all have their own
individual hash codes:
(i) The message-ID
(ii) Each of the MIDs in the References header
(iii) The subject (excluding the "Re: " at the beginning)


A. These hash codes are stored in the group's .IDX and/or .DAT files.

If you have a hex dump program and know where to look, you
can dump the .IDX and .DAT files in hex and find them.

The .IDX file contains
* The hash code of the message-ID
* The hash code of the subject
* The hash code of the right-most MID in the references header

The .DAT file contains
* The hash code of the other MIDs in the references header


B. Agent's formula for calculating the hash code was posted in
this message from Sherlog.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent/VzjDcsZ-7b8/Yp9_H6T7du0J

I have a perl script which uses this formula to calculate the
hash code of a string. If I want to know the hash code of the
subject, I give the script the RHS of the subject (excluding
any "Re:" at the beginning).



> Also when I
> disable the setting mentioned above, how will the threads be sorted?


Different threads started with the same subject line will no longer
be mixed up together.

Threads where followups have a "References" header will still be
correctly threaded.

The best way to see is to try it.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

Brian

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Jan 20, 2014, 4:24:39 PM1/20/14
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On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:01:01 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:
Thank you once again, I will experiment with the settings!
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