Posts not in thread
Terry Pinnell
threads. Here's an example:
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3199/agentthreadssh9.jpg
Threading is On (i.e. I have clicked '+') and I have also sorted by
Date (descending).
What is the likely cause and how do I fix it please?
--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
Ralph Fox
Terry Pinnell wrote:
> I frequently find that posts are not correctly placed within their
> threads. Here's an example:
> http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3199/agentthreadssh9.jpg
That tells us that there is a problem, but not the cause.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two different causes, both
equally likely.
What might be useful is full headers of all the messages in the
thread, including the one which did not thread and the one which
it was a reply to.
> Threading is On (i.e. I have clicked '+') and I have also sorted by
> Date (descending).
>
> What is the likely cause
Here are two different and equally-likely causes.
A. The followup was posted by someone using an email client
which does not generate either a "References" header or an
RFC2822-format "In-Reply-To" header. OutLook / MS Exchange
is a prime example.
or
B. The mailing list is gated to/from a newsgroup. When email
messages are gated to the newsgroup, they get given new
(different) message-IDs. When someone on the newsgroup
replies, the "References" header has the NG message-id
not the original email MID, so it does not thread under
the original email.
> and how do I fix it please?
The classic answer for such things would normally be to turn on
"enable threading by subject" -- but that will not work here
because of the [gpsu] placed *before* the "Re:" on replies.
Fallback options for fixing will depend on the actual cause.
A. If it is cause 'A' ...
Kill-filter anyone using OutLook (if they won't agree to
your demands that they change e-mail client)
B. If it is cause 'B' ...
I have some good news and some bad news.
(1) First the good news: If you subscribe to the newsgroup then
replies posted via the newsgroup _will_ thread properly.
(1) Now the bad news: If you subscribe to the newsgroup then
replies posted via email to messages originally posted via
email, will not thread in the newsgroup. This is because
the "References" header will have the email MID and not the
newsgroup MID of the original post.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
agent.user
On Fri, 30 May 2008 10:39:51 +0100 'Terry Pinnell'
wrote this on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent:
Hash collisions?
Ralph Fox
Not in this case -- here the misthreaded message is not threaded at all.
In a hash collision, the misthreaded message would be threaded under
the wrong message (one with the same MID hash as the right one).
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Terry Pinnell
Thanks, appreciate the detailed reply. Not sure I necessarily yet
follow all of it mind you ;-)
Here's an example (the first entry in my screenshot) of a full header
for a post that did not get threaded:
====================
Return-Path:
<sentto-6484375-4809-1211880186-terrypin=dial.pi...@returns.groups.yahoo.com>
X-Envelope-To: terr...@dial.pipex.com
Delivered-To: terr...@dial.pipex.com
Received: from grand.systems.pipex.net (grand.systems.pipex.net
[62.241.163.8])
by addams.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7115E000091
for <terr...@dial.pipex.com>; Tue, 27 May 2008 10:23:07 +0100
(BST)
Received: from n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com (n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com
[66.218.67.71])
by grand.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C3FF18000089
for <terr...@dial.pipex.com>; Tue, 27 May 2008 10:23:07 +0100
(BST)
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
d=yahoogroups.com;
b=bp2fYqVfwIoCMMMzbH/JZ65BdCRj/eol7wLgIpOGRveciD/y6k2VrTXp7UT0COxqr1LwWhsUtiTigUreXmzhACpe6eZoehRtIq8NkaHnbbPobwZwjzQtGKBr/3YeUL5d;
Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
27 May 2008 09:23:06 -0000
Received: from [66.218.66.159] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
27 May 2008 09:23:06 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 6484375-m4809
X-Sender: jo...@daly.net
X-Apparently-To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
X-Received: (qmail 29466 invoked from network); 27 May 2008 09:23:05
-0000
X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95)
by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2008 09:23:05 -0000
X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com)
(69.147.64.113)
by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2008 09:23:04 -0000
X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with
NNFMP; 27 May 2008 09:23:04 -0000
X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
27 May 2008 09:23:04 -0000
X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
27 May 2008 09:23:04 -0000
To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <g1gjt...@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <boin345qj6vhnteu6...@4ax.com>
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.113
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0
X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.92.16.53
From: "John" <jo...@daly.net>
X-Yahoo-Profile: yladnhoj
Sender: gp...@yahoogroups.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Mailing-List: list gp...@yahoogroups.com; contact
gpsu-...@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list gp...@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <gpsu.yahoogroups.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gpsu-uns...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:23:04 -0000
Subject: [gpsu] Re: GPX files not loading in GE
Reply-To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-tradt-m
X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.100 [269.24.1/1468]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="=======AVGMAIL-483C47C70000======="
X-Agent-Received: from pop.dial.pipex.com (pop.dial.pipex.com); Tue,
27 May 2008 18:41:27 +0100
X-Agent-Junk-Probability: 0
====================
And here's one that did get threaded:
====================
Return-Path:
<sentto-6484375-4797-1211708668-terrypin=dial.pi...@returns.groups.yahoo.com>
X-Envelope-To: terr...@dial.pipex.com
Delivered-To: terr...@dial.pipex.com
Received: from dragons.systems.pipex.net (dragons.systems.pipex.net
[62.241.163.5])
by zone.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6ABE00008E
for <terr...@dial.pipex.com>; Sun, 25 May 2008 10:44:29 +0100
(BST)
Received: from n41d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com
(n41d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [66.163.169.147])
by dragons.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 408D5E000088
for <terr...@dial.pipex.com>; Sun, 25 May 2008 10:44:29 +0100
(BST)
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
d=yahoogroups.com;
b=u8bTUCBZJ0RTB+Re/Y8kM9sbThdg55BzKadRiWjMrj2hrSxVsMO4TXxGOz0JCxew2gPfIRSALAAiYXu368Kf31XXy+JzCjS0rcbhjMp9H9mcDJHjyz2k1WRnGL/kjMnl;
Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with
NNFMP; 25 May 2008 09:44:28 -0000
Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25
May 2008 09:44:28 -0000
Received: from [66.218.66.156] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
25 May 2008 09:44:28 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 6484375-m4797
X-Sender: jo...@daly.net
X-Apparently-To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
X-Received: (qmail 65966 invoked from network); 25 May 2008 09:44:26
-0000
X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94)
by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com)
(69.147.64.217)
by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with
NNFMP; 25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
X-Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with
NNFMP; 25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <g1bcd...@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <cp1i3496duv2ttgmb...@4ax.com>
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.217
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0
X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.92.16.53
From: "John" <jo...@daly.net>
X-Yahoo-Profile: yladnhoj
Sender: gp...@yahoogroups.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Mailing-List: list gp...@yahoogroups.com; contact
gpsu-...@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list gp...@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <gpsu.yahoogroups.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gpsu-uns...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:44:26 -0000
Subject: [gpsu] Re: GPX files not loading in GE
Reply-To: gp...@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-tradt-m
X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.100 [269.24.1/1464]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="=======AVGMAIL-483A47E80000======="
X-Agent-Received: from pop.dial.pipex.com (pop.dial.pipex.com); Mon,
26 May 2008 06:17:28 +0100
X-Agent-Junk-Probability: 0
====================
Happy to provide any other information that would assist in the
diagnosis.
agent.user
On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:15:39 +1200 'Ralph Fox'
wrote this on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent:
Yeah I was unsure about that myself, hence my "?".
I suffer many hash collisions ...uh!
Roger
<-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>The classic answer for such things would normally be to turn on
>"enable threading by subject" -- but that will not work here
>because of the [gpsu] placed *before* the "Re:" on replies.
Did you notice that the third arrow down is pointing to a line
which begins
Re : [gpsu]
Wouldn't the space between the "Re" and the colon stop Agent
from considering this to be a followup message?
--
Roger
Terry Pinnell
Looking back at the message pane, there seems to be some variety, the
first of the following being by far the most frequent format.
Subject: RE : [gpsu] Combining Route Segments <---
Subject: RE: [gpsu] Track points exceeded
Subject: [gpsu] RE: Nobeltec Visual Navigation Suite export
FWIW, here' the web alternative that I rarely use.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsu/
Martin Jay
Looks like a mailing list rather than a newsgroup.
My guess is that Agent threads messages based on the 'In-Reply-To:'
header and that some authors are not supply one.
Checking the header of orphaned messages for the absence of
'In-Reply-To:' would confirm this.
--
Martin Jay
Ralph Fox
agent.user wrote:
> I suffer many hash collisions ...uh!
I also suffer many hash collisions. :-(
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>
> >What might be useful is full headers of all the messages in the
> >thread, including the one which did not thread and the one which
> >it was a reply to.
> Here's an example (the first entry in my screenshot) of a full header
> for a post that did not get threaded:
The way this example works is like this.
This example is a reply to some other message. This example requires
that other message to be present, so that this example can thread. If
that specific other message is not present there in that folder, in
the thread, then this example will not thread.
So say you have this
Alan posts a message
Terry replies to Alan
John replies to Terry
If Terry's post is not present there in that folder, in the thread,
then John's post will not thread with Alan's.
If Terry's post is present there in that folder, in that thread,
then all three posts will thread together.
So let me make some guesses
1. The post which did not thread is a reply to you
2. Your post is not there in the folder, in the thread
3. Perhaps Yahoo Groups does not send you copies of your own posts,
and that is why your own posts are not present there.
If this is _not_ the case, what I also need to see is not only the
a full header for the post that did not get threaded (thanks), but
also the full header for the post which it was a reply to. I need
the full header as is present there in that folder, in the thread.
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Ralph Fox
Agent doesn't require the "Re:" in order to consider the message
to be a followup message. But in some circumstances, Agent will
compare whether the subjects are equal give-or-take a "Re:" prefix.
A. So long as you have turned off "start a new thread when a
follow-up subject changes", this will not stop normal
threading.
But if you have turned on "start a new thread when a follow-up
subject changes", this would stop Agent from considering this
to be a followup message
B. This will stop "enable threading by subject" from doing
its special thing. However, normal threading ought to
work without "enable threading by subject".
--
Cheers,
Ralph
Roger
<-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 May 2008 13:06:17 +0100, in message <2nqv349hpi1odido2...@4ax.com>,
>Roger wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:49:49 +1200, Ralph Fox
>> <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >The classic answer for such things would normally be to turn on
>> >"enable threading by subject" -- but that will not work here
>> >because of the [gpsu] placed *before* the "Re:" on replies.
>>
>> Did you notice that the third arrow down is pointing to a line
>> which begins
>>
>> Re : [gpsu]
>>
>> Wouldn't the space between the "Re" and the colon stop Agent
>> from considering this to be a followup message?
>
>
>Agent doesn't require the "Re:" in order to consider the message
>to be a followup message. But in some circumstances, Agent will
>compare whether the subjects are equal give-or-take a "Re:" prefix.
"Re:" yes, but does Agent treat "Re :" the same as "Re:"? I
think that the space has caused Agent to treat that particular
message as having a different subject.
--
Roger
Ralph Fox
Yes, it will treat it as having a different _subject_.
But that does not mean it has to affect _threading_ (which is what
this thread is about). See 'A' and 'B' of my previous message.
--
Cheers,
Ralph