Spaniard or spanish?
Jigotai
I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
Saludos
Angel
Jerry Friedman
I haven't heard "Spaniard" all that much. It has some connotations of
former centuries and former stereotypes--swaggering grandees ready to
draw their rapiers over any point of honor. (Tengo que tratar de
traducirlo: "grandes chuleandos listos para sacar los estoques sobre
todo pundonor.") See _Westward Ho!_ by Charles Kingsley, if you can
stand it.
These connotations are unfortunate, since we have some use for a word
that just means "a person from Spain". And you can't say "a
Spanish"--you can use it only in the plural, "the Spanish". So I
occasionally say "Spaniard" anyway.
I think most Americans find ways to avoid "Spaniard". "She's from
Spain." "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat dinner late." "A Spanish
guy would never say that." [*] Americans also tend to avoid all the
words of nationality that end in -man or -woman (Englishman, Frenchman,
Irishman, etc., except German), as well as the singular words that end
in -ese (a Chinese, a Portuguese, etc.).
[*] I have no idea what a Spanish guy would never say that anyone else
would say. I'm not even sure the Spanish like to eat dinner later than
Americans.
--
Jerry Friedman
jfrE...@nnm.cc.nm.us
i before e
and all the disclaimers
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
frank
wrote:
>Hi:
>I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
>in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
>too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
>
>Saludos
>
>Angel
I have the same problems in reverse.Firstly,"Spaniard" is a noun and
"spanish" an adjective.Un spaniard es un hombre español or a spaniard
is a spanish man.You can also refer to "the spanish" which equates
with "los ingleses",in this case it acts as a noun!Fácilisimo¡no!
I probably have not explained it too well but I'm sure you'll get more
erudite replies!Also you have fallen into the trap set for
"spaniards","people" en íngles es plural,a diferencia del español.
"People who was born " should read "people who were born"
Also "spaniard" is not used as an insult(except when you are stealing
our fish!):-))
Un saludo
Frank
Julie
Jigotai wrote:
> Hi:
> I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
> in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
> too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
>
To me, the word Spaniard is not an insult. It's the word for a person who is
a native of Spain. You can use "the Spanish" to talk about the people of
Spain collectively, but I believe it is technically incorrect to say "He is
Spanish" (even though it might be common usage). It is correct to say "He is
a Spaniard", or "He is from Spain", or maybe even "He is of Spanish descent".
My point of view as an English speaker from Wisconsin, USA.
Saludos--
Julie
Dkcsac
words of nationality that end in -man or -woman (Englishman, Frenchman,
Irishman, etc., except German)
Interesting. So is a female German a Gerwoman? ;-)
dcjglf
>I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was
>born
>in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard
>"Spaniard" too.
>Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
>
>
>Angel
"Spaniard" is not meant as an insult. Some people do however connect
the word with the image of the Spanish conquistadores of the 15th and
16th century dressed in their shiny armor. But this is generally not
the rule when using the word Spaniard. The bottom line is it is not an
insult. The word is used quite often in the US when describing someone
from Spain. It is used especially often in the world of sports. Like
when describing Serio Reyes, they might say "The Spaniard shot 5 under
par". Or in the world of tennis, they might say "The Spaniard won in
straight sets". Here are some example sentences for you.
Carlos is a Spaniard.
Carlos is Spanish.
John likes Spanish food.
Spaniards like soccer.
The Spanish like soccer.
Spanish soccer teams are good.
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Angelico
wrote:
=Hi:
=I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
=in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
=too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
=
=Saludos
=
=Angel
=
I suppose it derives from the old Germanic languages. In German they
say Spanier/Spanierin for a person from Spain and Spanisch for the
language. In English they seem to preserve only the form for the
language in most cases and use it both ways. Spaniard could be a
somehow archaic word.
--
Angel Arnal
Valencia, España
ICQ# 49213241
Remove my opinion on spam to e-mail me.
Jerry Friedman
Julie <year...@merr.com> wrote:
...
> To me, the word Spaniard is not an insult. It's the word for a person
who is
> a native of Spain. You can use "the Spanish" to talk about the people
of
> Spain collectively, but I believe it is technically incorrect to say
"He is
> Spanish" (even though it might be common usage).
I've never heard there's anything incorrect about "He is Spanish".
Jigotai
>I think most Americans find ways to avoid "Spaniard". "She's from
>Spain." "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat dinner late." "A Spanish
>guy would never say that."
No entiendo tus ejemplos. "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat dinner late."
Yo diría Since he is (or was) in Spain, he likes to eat dinner late. Uno se
habitúa a las costumbres cuando está en un pais. Tu puedes ser inglés, vivir
en España y gustarte el cenar tarde (como a muchos que conozco, que se
habitúan enseguida a la buena vida de aquí). No creo que, como español que
soy, me habituara a cenar a las siete de la tarde. A esa hora estoy saliendo
del trabajo...
Si no te entendí mal, "spanish" es un adjetivo y "spaniard" un nombre. I´am
Spanish. The Spaniards come from Spain. Am I right?
Saludos
Jigotai
If youb click here
http://www.uefa.com/UCL/index_frame.asp?Filename=/NewsData/UCL/News/indexp.a
sp?News=5444
you will go into a web site where you can read as folows: "The Spaniards
have David Albelda within one yellow card of a one-match suspension". It 愀
talking about the match played last tuesday by may football team, Valencia
C.F. According Angel Arnal, the word "spaniard" could be a "somehow archaic
word". But this article was written yesterday.
Some comments about that? Maybe there are some differences between british
english and american english.
Best regards
Angel
VernonH
<jfried...@my-deja.com> writes:
>I've never heard there's anything incorrect about "He is Spanish".
>
>--
>Jerry Friedman
Yo tampoco. In Texas I have never heard one say "He's Spanish". Spanish is
reserved for use as an adjective.
There is a joke that is certainly not PC but everyone in Texas knows it.
Some background... Mexican-Americans suffered racial discrimination in Texas
until just a few years ago. The rich and educated ones (and light skin helped)
who were somewhat accepted into social, commercial, or other areas were
referred to as Spaniards. Thus the sorry joke is..... that the definition of a
a Spaniard is a Mexican that marries your daughter.
Vern
Vernon C. Hammond,O.D.
McAllen, TX 78501
Angelico
wrote:
=Hi friends:
=If youb click here
=
=http://www.uefa.com/UCL/index_frame.asp?Filename=/NewsData/UCL/News/indexp.a
=sp?News=5444
=
=you will go into a web site where you can read as folows: "The Spaniards
=have David Albelda within one yellow card of a one-match suspension". It ´s
=talking about the match played last tuesday by may football team, Valencia
=C.F. According Angel Arnal, the word "spaniard" could be a "somehow archaic
=word". But this article was written yesterday.
=
=Some comments about that? Maybe there are some differences between british
=english and american english.
=
=Best regards
=
=Angel
=
When I said it was archaic I referred to the fact that very few, if
any, other nationalities have this distinction, as it was a word that
only survived for Spain.
Umberto
Julie <year...@merr.com> wrote in message 381709A2...@merr.com...
>
>
> To me, the word Spaniard is not an insult. It's the word for a person who
is
> a native of Spain. You can use "the Spanish" to talk about the people of
> Spain collectively, but I believe it is technically incorrect to say "He
is
is
> a Spaniard", or "He is from Spain", or maybe even "He is of Spanish
descent".
> My point of view as an English speaker from Wisconsin, USA.
>
> Saludos--
>
My point of view as an Italian speaker from Bologna, Italy (thus much much
much less reliable than yours...) is that:
- Spaniard is the noun, even if it isn't used very often.
E.g.: He's a Spaniard.
- spanish is the adjective
E.g.: I met a spanish guy yesterday.
Consequently, "He's a Spaniard" and "He's a spanish guy" are perfectly
equivalent, I believe, and although I understand the former is not as much
used as the latter.
Also, I can't see anything wrong in saying "He's spanish". To me it sounds
perfectly correct.
But I prefer to leave the final verdict to the English speaking folks of
this NG.
VernonH
>My point of view as an Italian speaker from Bologna, Italy (thus much much
>much less reliable than yours...) is that:
>- Spaniard is the noun, even if it isn't used very often.
>E.g.: He's a Spaniard.
>- spanish is the adjective
>E.g.: I met a spanish guy yesterday.
>Consequently, "He's a Spaniard" and "He's a spanish guy" are perfectly
>equivalent, I believe, and although I understand the former is not as much
>used as the latter.
>Also, I can't see anything wrong in saying "He's spanish". To me it sounds
>perfectly correct.
>But I prefer to leave the final verdict to the English speaking folks of
>this NG.
>
Umberto y demás,
I liked your post but I am going to throw another iron into the fire..
My take on frequency of usage in USA.
(1) He's from Spain.
(2) He's a Spaniard.
(3) He's Spanish. (By the way, Spanish is always capitalized)
My choice for the number one spot above may be due to the fact that so many
people don't know if number 2 or 3 are correct. To most Americans the problem
never or seldom presents itself since as far as the celebrated man in the
street is concerned there is so little commerce or other exchange between the
two countries.
Now a politically correct term for Latinamericans is tougher.
Jim Bucklew
Vern escribio':
Some background... Mexican-Americans suffered racial discrimination in Texas
until just a few years ago.
!Que bueno! !La discriminacio'n se acabo' en Tejas!
:)
jim
Jerry Friedman
"Jigotai" <jig...@shintai.es> wrote:
>
> >I think most Americans find ways to avoid "Spaniard". "She's from
> >Spain." "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat dinner late." "A
Spanish
> >guy would never say that."
>
> No entiendo tus ejemplos. "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat dinner
late."
> Yo diría Since he is (or was) in Spain, he likes to eat dinner late.
Lo siento que te di un ejemplo difícil a comprender. (Y dudo mucho que
esta oración es correcto.) "Since he's Spanish, he likes to eat late,"
quiere decir, "Ya que es español, le gusta cenar tarde." "Since" quiere
decir "ya que" muchas veces cuando empeza (?) una cláusula con un verbo.
Tu oración "Since he is in Spain, he likes to eat dinner late" se
traduce como "Ya que está en España, le gusta cenar tarde." "Since he
was in Spain..." sería más correcto como "Ever since he was in Spain..."
= "Desde que estó en España, le gusta cenar tarde."
> Uno se
> habitúa a las costumbres cuando está en un pais. Tu puedes ser inglés,
vivir
> en España y gustarte el cenar tarde (como a muchos que conozco, que se
> habitúan enseguida a la buena vida de aquí). No creo que, como español
que
> soy, me habituara a cenar a las siete de la tarde. A esa hora estoy
saliendo
> del trabajo...
Por desgracia no he probado la buena vida de España. Cuando me haga
rico...
> Si no te entendí mal, "spanish" es un adjetivo y "spaniard" un nombre.
I´am
> Spanish. The Spaniards come from Spain. Am I right?
Just about. (Your first sentence should be "I'm Spanish" or "I am
Spanish.") Pero también "Spanish" puede ser un nombre plural. The
Spanish = Los españoles. Es posible con muchos otros adjetivos: "The
poor you will always have with you" = "Siempre tendréis pobres con
vosotros" (¿Cuáles adjectivos? Si hay una regla, no la sé, pero puedes
preguntar en alt.usage.english.)
Jerry Friedman
"Jigotai" <jig...@shintai.es> wrote:
> Hi friends:
> If youb click here
>
>
http://www.uefa.com/UCL/index_frame.asp?Filename=/NewsData/UCL/News/inde
xp.a
> sp?News=5444
>
Spaniards
> talking about the match played last tuesday by may football team,
Valencia
archaic
>
british
Sportswriters, who always talk about the same things, occasionally use
slightly archaic (obsolescent) words for flavor. One example is
"tourney".
This example does sound more British than American to me. I'd expect an
American writer to say, "Spain has David Albelda within..." However,
dcjglf says that in the U.S. "Spaniard" is especially popular among
sportswriters and sportscasters, so I may be wrong. (I don't follow
sports much.)
Even though "Spaniard" does sound slightly obsolete to some of us, if
sportscasters are using it then it will come back in style.
VernonH
(Jim Bucklew) writes:
Jim,
100%, no. Pero casi, siquiera donde yo vivo en el sur de Texas. El
mexico-americano puede sufrir mucho más disciminación en México que en Texas.
Aquí los country clubs y otros clubes sociales tienen más socios
mexico-americanos, mexicanos, o encartados ( half & medio, como mis hijos) que
'gringos'. Todo depende en la preparación, comportamiento y personalidad de
uno que su raza. Claro el que tiene un papi multimillionario puede tener gran
ventaja sea lo que sea su meta. :-)
Mi señora es mexicana y nuestr@s 5 hij@s se casaron con méxico-american@s. (El
uso de '@" es como ser PC según las feministas)
Kalaninuiana`olekaumaiiluna Mondoy
Although I've heard people born to Spanish parents (from Spain) referred to as
just Spanish and not Spaniard since "Spaniard" is limited to someone of Spain.
There was an American woman who moved to Spain and became a citizen of Spain.
I think she's referred to as a Spaniard and not Spanish because she does not
have Spanish blood.
Jigotai wrote:
> Hi:
> I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
> in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
> too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
>
> Saludos
>
> Angel
Graham Howe
like most Spanish people he enjoys good food'.
sin embargo, 'Spanish' se emplea como substantivo en los casos siguientes:
(1) Para referirse al idioma: 'He speaks good Spanish'; 'Spanish is easier
than Basque';
(2) Como colectivo que se refiere al pueblo español: 'The Spanish are a race
of individualists'
--
¡Saludos!
Graham
Jigotai <jig...@shintai.es> wrote in message
news:7v6pcm$cqh$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net...
John O'Flaherty
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:00:04 +0200, "Jigotai" <jig...@shintai.es>
> wrote:
>
> =Hi:
> =I have a little doubt. How do you say when you refer to people who was born
> =in Spain?. I now that "Spanish" is very used, but I have heard "Spaniard"
> =too. Are both of them correct? Has "Spaniard" got any meaning of insult?
> =
> =Saludos
> =
> =Angel
> =
> I suppose it derives from the old Germanic languages. In German they
> say Spanier/Spanierin for a person from Spain and Spanisch for the
> language. In English they seem to preserve only the form for the
> somehow archaic word.
According to my English dictionary, 'Spaniard' comes from French,
'Espaniard', from 'Espaigne' (Spain), from Latin 'Hispania'.
john
campin
John O'Flaherty wrote in message <381B7254...@kcnet.com>...
Same sort of explanation in my dictionaries - Spaniard is derived from the
Old French.
John
Greybeard
wrote:
>Hi friends:
>If youb click here
>
>http://www.uefa.com/UCL/index_frame.asp?Filename=/NewsData/UCL/News/indexp.a
>sp?News=5444
>
>you will go into a web site where you can read as folows: "The Spaniards
>have David Albelda within one yellow card of a one-match suspension". It ´s
>talking about the match played last tuesday by may football team, Valencia
>C.F. According Angel Arnal, the word "spaniard" could be a "somehow archaic
>word". But this article was written yesterday.
>
>Some comments about that? Maybe there are some differences between british
>english and american english.
¡Hijos! ¿Es posible que el Papa sea católico? Creo que fue Winston
Churchill quién dijo que los Inglaterra y Estados Unidos son dos
países separados por un idioma común.
Regresando al tema: no creo que "spaniard" sea palabra arcaico, sino
que muchas veces (pero no siempre) se usa para referir a los españoles
conquistadores, y por eso tiene la palabra un olor de antigüedad.
Saludos,
Greybeard