Quick translation for old German Church Record.
TCONL
in my attempt to research my family history I have come across a
old Lutheran church record that includes either a German script or a word
that I am unable to translate.
This link is to the page with snap shot of the record and pertaining text.
http://www.triwolf.com/church.htm
If anyone can translate the pertaining text I would be very grateful.
In my genealogy research I am trying to learn the German language also, but
I have yet to master the language.
Thank you for your time.
dws...@bellsouth.net
> This is the best I can make out... can anyone else do better...?
I think the second is:
4. August Friedr[ich]. Wilhelm Labs
doug
Karen Heiner
me)
4. August (someone's name, not a month) (next two names are illegible to me)
Labs, geb. (born) 8 Dec 1867
This is the best I can make out... can anyone else do better...?
"TCONL" <mi...@tconl.com> wrote in message
news:xZnq4.201$Vf2....@news.uswest.net...
Ansgar Fehnker
>
>
> 4. August (someone's name, not a month) (next two names are illegible to me)
> Labs, geb. (born) 8 Dec 1867
My guess would be
4. August Friedr. Wilhelm Labs, geb. 27 Nov 1867
get. 8 Dec 1867
I'm not that sure about the 27 Nov 1867, since it's not possible to see
the upper part. "get" is apparently an abbreviation of "getauft". i.e.
baptized.
Furthermore, the second word inbetween the brackets of the first gif,
seems to be the same as the word right before the "4." in the second
gif. But i have no clue what it means. Maybe a name.
regards
Ansgar
--
afeh...@dds.nl
Wenn ich auf die See seh,
brauch ich doch kein Meer mehr.
Diedrich Ehlerding
>The part of the text that I am most wondering about is the portion in
>the ) in the 1st pic and in the 1st column in the 2nd pic.
>It looks like Iffujaiw.
^^^^^^^^^ :-) No. The whole text is in a mixture of "latin"
letters and "german" letters.
I agree that the text in the brackets is hardly readable, but I dont
agree to
others in this thread that it may be a name. I suggest to publish the
table headings for these columns.
My personal suggestion how to read the documents is as follows: The
second word in brackets of the first gif reads "Tfschein", which might
denote an abbreviation for "Taufschein", a document about a baptism. The
first word might read "bereits". If this interpretation is true, the
whole bracket means "a document for the baptism of Berta Labs was already
delivered".
My guess for the first column in the second gif is "Lt. T(au)fschein",
"according to the 'taufschein'".
Regards, Diedrich Ehlerding
Karsten Düsterloh
> My personal suggestion how to read the documents is as follows: The
> second word in brackets of the first gif reads "Tfschein", which might
> denote an abbreviation for "Taufschein", a document about a baptism. The
Agreed.
> first word might read "bereits". If this interpretation is true, the
> whole bracket means "a document for the baptism of Berta Labs was already
> delivered".
Not agreed. :) I think it is "laut" (according to), written somewhat
hastily, as it is abbreviated in the second graphic ("lt.").
> My guess for the first column in the second gif is "Lt. T(au)fschein",
> "according to the 'taufschein'".
Agreed.
Karsten
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Angelika Theuss
wrote:
> The part of the text that I am most wondering about is the portion in the
> ) in the 1st pic and in the 1st column in the 2nd pic.
> It looks like Iffujaiw.
Hello,
To me it looks very much like "Tfschein", which might be the abbreviation
of "Taufschein" (baptising document). The Word before means "laut" or,
abbreviated, "lt." and means "according to", which makes sense because it
is in the context of the birth date.
HTH
Angelika
Diedrich Ehlerding
>Not agreed. :) I think it is "laut" (according to), written somewhat
>hastily, as it is abbreviated in the second graphic ("lt.").
I stand corrected. Yes, this is highly probable.
Diedrich
Ansgar Fehnker
>
> Diedrich Ehlerding wrote:
> > My personal suggestion how to read the documents is as follows: The
> > second word in brackets of the first gif reads "Tfschein", which might
> > denote an abbreviation for "Taufschein", a document about a baptism. The
>
> Agreed.
>
I don't think that it reads Tfschein. The letter just before the "e"
does not look like the "h"-es in Bertha or Wilhelm to me. And I also
think that the first letter is not a T.
> > first word might read "bereits". If this interpretation is true, the
>
> Not agreed. :) I think it is "laut" (according to), written somewhat
> hastily, as it is abbreviated in the second graphic ("lt.").
I doubt it. The second half of your "a" could be a "r", compared to
other "r"s, and it I still think that there is letter after the t. I
think it's unlikely that someone who writes hastily adds things, you
usually leave out things. In first instance I was also tending to read
it as "bereits".
But the first word in the second gif seems to be an abbr of laut (or
maybe Leutnant:)
ansgar
Diedrich Ehlerding
Ansgar Fehnker <afeh...@dds.nl> writes:
> I don't think that it reads Tfschein. The letter just before the "e"
> does not look like the "h"-es in Bertha or Wilhelm to me. And I also
> think that the first letter is not a T.
You are right that the letters in "Tfschein(?)" are different from the
letters in the names. However, "...schein" is very clear (observe the
dot above the i, just at the border of yellow color; observe the
"german" style e, and observe the long s, c, h. And the first letter
is clearly a "german" style T. The second letter can only be a long s,
an h or an f - which are almost indistinguishable in "Suetterlin" [1]
style. I uphold my interpretation ("laut Taufschein").
I dont know why the author used two "fonts" - one, "latin" style for the
names, and another, "german" or "Suetterlin" style for the comments. I
can only guess - maybe he was more fluent in "Suetterlin" style, whereas
he was forced to use "latin" letters for official entries in his document.
For me, the (clearly readable) names look as if they were intentionally
spelled particularly clearly.
Diedrich
[1] "Suetterlin" (for those among us who do not know this style of
writing): In Germany, handwriting was - formerly - somewhat different.
"Sütterlin" is one (late) version of this style. It was still in use at
the beginning of this century; my grandma, born 1890, used until she
died in 1969. The letters look quite different from the letters we all use
now. This style of writing is almost completely out of use; its rules are
(or were) somewhat similiar to "Fraktur" typesetting rules, e.g. there
were to kinds of "s" letters (a long one at the beginning or in the middle
of a syllable, and another one at the end of a syllable), or "ligatures"
("St"). You may perhaps find remnants of this style when physicists or
mathematicians handwrite texts in which they use "Fraktur" (or gothic)
letters in printed texts.
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Ansgar Fehnker
>
> I dont know why the author used two "fonts" - one, "latin" style for the
> names, and another, "german" or "Suetterlin" style for the comments. I
> can only guess - maybe he was more fluent in "Suetterlin" style, whereas
> he was forced to use "latin" letters for official entries in his document.
> For me, the (clearly readable) names look as if they were intentionally
> spelled particularly clearly.
admit that you are probably right. Now even I read it as "laut
Tfschein".)
Ansgar
jonesing
meaning "born". I can't make out the writing in brackets, but that has
sometimes been true for the handwriting of friends with whom I
correspond. Perhaps a German experienced at reading cryptic script
might better help you.
Thomas Schenk
[...]
> [1] "Suetterlin" (for those among us who do not know this style of
> writing): In Germany, handwriting was - formerly - somewhat different.
> "Sütterlin" is one (late) version of this style. It was still in use at
> the beginning of this century; [...]
Although this style of handwriting is today almost universally
referred to as "Sütterlin", the terminology is not completely
historically accurate. "Sütterlin" refers more specifically to the
highly simplified handwriting teaching method of Ludwig Sütterlin,
first introduced in the Prussian school system in 1917, and adopted
by all German schools by 1920. Your grandmother (depending on when
she learned to write) probably wrote "deutsche Kursive", which is
what the style was called prior to 1917. Deutsche Kursive dates to
about the early 18th century.
Tom
Christina Kunze
Thomas Schenk schrieb in Nachricht <38B2B188...@earthlink.net>...
>"deutsche Kursive", which is
>what the style was called prior to 1917.
I thought it was called "Kurrentschrift".
chr
Thomas Schenk
Yes. you're right. I looked up both terms and "Kurrentschrift" is
the more general expression for the type of handwriting in question:
"(früher benutzte)deutsche Schreibschrift" (Duden,
Universalwörterbuch, 1996). My apologies for the confusion, and my
thanks for the correction.
Tom
Stefan Huebel
"TCONL" <mi...@tconl.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> in my attempt to research my family history I have come
across a
> old Lutheran church record that includes either a German script or a
word
> that I am unable to translate.
>
> This link is to the page with snap shot of the record and pertaining
text.
> http://www.triwolf.com/church.htm
>
> If anyone can translate the pertaining text I would be very grateful.
>
First line:
15. Bertha Friederike Henriette Labs, geb 1. Aug. 1886 (laut Thschein)
translation:
15. B.F.H. Labs, born Aug. 1th., 1886 according to "Thschein" ( probably
an abbreviation of "Thaufschein" now spelled Taufschein ( baptismal
cerificate ) ).
Second line:
Lt. Thschein Friedr. Wilhelm Labs , geb. (????? 27. Nov. 1867 ???????).
get. 8. Dez. (?) 1867
"get." might be getauft ( = bapt. ), Lt. is "laut" = according
???
Sorry hard to read.
-sh
>
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