Zimmerman "Alice im Wunderland" frage.
Michael A. Gaul
at the mad tea party. As "twinkle twinkle little star" was presumably
unfamiliar in D-land, Zimmerman created a parody of a different poem. The
parody is as follows:
O Papagei, o papagei,
Wie grün sind deine federn!
Du grünst nicht nur zur Friedenszeit,
Auch wenn es Teller und Töpfe schneit.
O Papagei, o papagei,
-- at this point the Murmelthier interrupts with,
"O Papagei, o mamagei, o papagei, o mamagei..."
Now, the question is, does anyone recognize what poem this would have been a
parody on? I my knowledge of XIX German poetry is just slightly less than my
knowledge of the German language, you see...
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<99oqb5$e66$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>:
(Alice im Wunderland)
>O Papagei, o papagei,
>Wie grün sind deine federn!
>Du grünst nicht nur zur Friedenszeit,
>Auch wenn es Teller und Töpfe schneit.
>O Papagei, o papagei,
>Now, the question is, does anyone recognize what poem this would have been a
>parody on? I my knowledge of XIX German poetry is just slightly less than my
>knowledge of the German language, you see...
It is undoubtedly the well-known christmas song
"Oh Tannenbaum":
"Oh Tannenbaum, Oh Tannenbaum,
wie schoen (1) sind Deine Blaetter,
Du gruenst nicht nur zur Sommerszeit,
nein, auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
Oh Tannenbaum, Oh Tannenbaum,
wie schoen (1) sind Deine Blaetter!"
(1) gruen (?)
HTH and please don't beat me if my memory failed for one or the other word.
Paul
Andy
<micha...@mindspring.com> wrote
>In the original Alice, a poem called "Twinkle twinkle little bat" is recited
>at the mad tea party. As "twinkle twinkle little star" was presumably
>unfamiliar in D-land, Zimmerman created a parody of a different poem. The
>parody is as follows:
>
>O Papagei, o papagei,
>Wie grün sind deine federn!
>Du grünst nicht nur zur Friedenszeit,
>Auch wenn es Teller und Töpfe schneit.
>O Papagei, o papagei,
>
>-- at this point the Murmelthier
Oops: the original animal is a dormouse, which my dictionary translates
as Hazelmaus. A Murmeltier is a marmot - somewhat larger though just as
cuddly! Did Zimmerman also change the animal?
>interrupts with,
>"O Papagei, o mamagei, o papagei, o mamagei..."
>
>Now, the question is, does anyone recognize what poem this would have been a
>parody on? I my knowledge of XIX German poetry is just slightly less than my
>knowledge of the German language, you see...
>
>
Tannenbaum??
--
Andy
For Austrian philately <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/>
For Lupus <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/>
For my other interests <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/>
Michael A. Gaul
To P.S-J: Tannenbaum, of course! Now I feel silly, but you see I was not
thinking that it could be so familiar. Also I had known it only in English,
so I didn't realize how nearly identical it was to the German.
To Andy: Ja, eigentlich das Murmeltier. Ich weiss es nicht warum. She was in
contact with Carroll himself during the translation process, and so I
imagine the reason must have made sense at the time.
Alexander Deubelbeiss
Michael A. Gaul schrieb in Nachricht
<99re24$mgq$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Thanks to all.
>
>To Andy: Ja, eigentlich das Murmeltier. Ich weiss es nicht warum. She was
in
>contact with Carroll himself during the translation process, and so I
>imagine the reason must have made sense at the time.
>
That fits with the name "dormouse" (because of the association with latin
dorm-), but not "Haselmaus", so it was changed to "Murmeltier" (as in: Sie
schläft wie ein ~)
Andy
<deub...@gmx.net> wrote
>
>Michael A. Gaul schrieb in Nachricht
><99re24$mgq$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
>>Thanks to all.
>>
>>To Andy: Ja, eigentlich das Murmeltier. Ich weiss es nicht warum. She was
>in
>>contact with Carroll himself during the translation process, and so I
>>imagine the reason must have made sense at the time.
>>
>I don't remember too well, but isn't the dormouse characterised as sleepy?
Indeed so!
>That fits with the name "dormouse" (because of the association with latin
>dorm-), but not "Haselmaus", so it was changed to "Murmeltier" (as in: Sie
>schläft wie ein ~)
>
Ah. OK.
Oddly, I have seen a marmot (above Obergurgl in Tirol) but I've never
seen a dormouse!
Harald Manninga
> To Andy: Ja, eigentlich das Murmeltier. Ich weiss es nicht warum.
> She was in contact with Carroll himself during the translation
> process, and so I imagine the reason must have made sense at the
> time.
Still does: the word "dormouse" has to do with sleeping (cf. Latin
dormire) and means, almost literally, "sleeping rodent". They hibernate,
you know. And there is a German saying, "schlafen wie ein Murmeltier",
which means to sleep like a log - a Murmeltier is also a hibernating
rodent.
So Zimmermann apparently did change the animal, but thus kept the allusion/
idea alive.
Cheers,
Harry
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
Harald Manninga <MANN...@LINK-GOE.de> wrote:
>micha...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> To Andy: Ja, eigentlich das Murmeltier. Ich weiss es nicht warum.
>> She was in contact with Carroll himself during the translation
>> process, and so I imagine the reason must have made sense at the
>> time.
>
>Still does: the word "dormouse" has to do with sleeping (cf. Latin
>dormire) and means, almost literally, "sleeping rodent".
The actual etymology of <dormouse> is obscure. Suggested derivations from
French <dormeuse> "[female] sleeper" are chronologically challenged and
English <dorm(e)> meaning "sleep, doze" is a rather obscure element to
derive a word for a common critter from.
But the actual etymology isn't relevant to Carroll's purposes; the popular
association with sleeping is what counts.
>They hibernate,
>you know. And there is a German saying, "schlafen wie ein Murmeltier",
>which means to sleep like a log - a Murmeltier is also a hibernating
>rodent.
>
>So Zimmermann apparently did change the animal, but thus kept the allusion/
>idea alive.
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!
Harald Manninga
> Harald Manninga <MANN...@LINK-GOE.de> wrote:
> >the word "dormouse" has to do with sleeping (cf. Latin
> >dormire) and means, almost literally, "sleeping rodent".
> The actual etymology of <dormouse> is obscure.
[snip]
It is? Thanks for the information.
I must confess that I didn't really check on the etymology but merely
tried to follow what Gardner says in his "Annotated Alice" (and yes:
caught again - I should have said that). Finding Gardner, on the whole,
accurate in his annotations, I didn't think I might need to cross-check
his explanation of "dormouse", all the more so as it sounds so plausible.
I'll know better next time!
> But the actual etymology isn't relevant to Carroll's purposes; the
> popular association with sleeping is what counts.
Exactly!
Cheers,
Harry
--
Calvin: What's a pronoun?
Hobbes: A noun that's lost its amateur status.