German word for 'mind'
John D.Mukhejee
For most beginners, not too many English words would present as much
problem while translating them into German as would the word 'mind'.It
is translated in various ways, because Germans tend to treat it somewhat
differently each time, depending on the context in which it is being
used.-- Therefore, a foreigner cannot get away with the translation
"Geist" every time his sentence includes the word "mind". Without any
context, if I wish to translate the word "mind", I would go for
"Gemuet", because "Gemuet" would most aptly represent that organ of the
human body where the thinking process is carried out. But
English-learners of German language are taken by-- more than a mild
surprise-- when they first learn that "mind" must be translated into
German by such other verbs as : "Meinung sagen", "denken",
"merken","beachten","Verstand haben","sich anders uebelegen","sich
anders besinnen","sich anders entschliessen","einfallen", "sich
erinnern","sich vertiefen"etc.etc.,--none of which uses the
German-parallel word: "Gemuet" or "Geist" for the English-word "mind".
Also "mind" could be translated by noun-words such as :
"Verstand","Seele"(soul),"Herz"(??, yes, you read it right), "Meinung",
"Kopf", "Sinn","Bewusstsein","Achtung", "Gedanke", "Absicht"-- there are
no signs of "Gemuet" here either!
What a dilemma the English-speaking students of German would have to
face when dealing with the translation of the word "mind"!!
Greetings,
John
Eva Bekker
Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
>An interesting observation about the German-use of the word "mind".
>
>For most beginners, not too many English words would present as much
>problem while translating them into German as would the word 'mind'.It
>is translated in various ways, because Germans tend to treat it somewhat
>differently each time, depending on the context in which it is being
>used.--
<major snip>
>
>What a dilemma the English-speaking students of German would have to
>face when dealing with the translation of the word "mind"!!
>
I think it's a dilemma for all students of all languages that there
are words which serve as a kind of metaphor. These terms are mainly
used to describe abstract meanings. *Soul* is one of these, or
*spirit*.
In English the term "mind" is also used in many different ways like it
is in German. Just have a look:
There's something on my mind - ich habe etwas auf dem Herzen (oder der
Seele)
My mind is set - ich bin fest entschlossen
Great minds think alike - Zwei Seelen ein Gedanke
A brilliant mind - ein kluger Kopf (oder großer Geist)
I'm speaking my mind - ich sage meine Meinung
A person with a gloomy mind - ein schwermütiger Mensch
To change one's mind - seine Meinung ändern
or when used as a verb:
I don't mind - Es ist mir egal
Mind you! - Denk dran (oder pass auf!)
Would you mind - würde es dir etwas ausmachen
Mind your own business - kümmer dich um deinen eigenen Kram
You can also speak of *mindless* - gedankenlos, someone can be *evil
minded* - bösartig....
And these are only few examples, mind you!;)
It is impossible to learn and speak a language, if one's not looking
at the context. You can't simply translate directly word by word, you
have to see the entire sentence or paragraph. And then it's not that
hard :)
Peace
Eva
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Matthias Schmitz
"John D.Mukhejee" <muk...@attcanada.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3DE327D7...@attcanada.ca...
> An interesting observation about the German-use of the word "mind".
>
> For most beginners, not too many English words would present as much
> problem while translating them into German as would the word 'mind'.It
> is translated in various ways, because Germans tend to treat it somewhat
> differently each time, depending on the context in which it is being
> used.--
> What a dilemma the English-speaking students of German would have to
> face when dealing with the translation of the word "mind"!!
>
> Greetings,
>
> John
Hi John,
imo, this dilemma will always almost occur with "non-substancial" words, or
rather "ideas"; not only with translating issues there are determinating
problems, but heavy ones even within the given language, as science (esp. of
philosophy!) shows for centuries (e.g., try and read one English writing
philosopher who deals with "Erkenntnis" or alike :-)!
The same applies to the technical approaches that were done for
translating/interpreting, by means of translation programs/devices: they are
rather well-working with "technical" items, but often loosing when having to
look after "ideological" words (and, of course, any words with multiple
meanings).
So the students are in the state to have to check all the context, subtext,
and possible cross-meanings a word could have. But for luck, they can do it,
even with certain fun, as they explore the vast field "of mind"
;-) best rgds - Matthias
John D.Mukhejee
Eva Bekker wrote:
>
> Am Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:50:47 -0800 erleuchtete John D.Mukhejee das
> Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
>
> >An interesting observation about the German-use of the word "mind".
> >
> >For most beginners, not too many English words would present as much
> >problem while translating them into German as would the word 'mind'.It
> >is translated in various ways, because Germans tend to treat it somewhat
> >differently each time, depending on the context in which it is being
> >used.--
>
> <major snip>
> >
> >What a dilemma the English-speaking students of German would have to
> >face when dealing with the translation of the word "mind"!!
> >--------------
> In English the term "mind" is also used in many different ways like it
> is in German. Just have a look:
>
> There's something on my mind - ich habe etwas auf dem Herzen (oder der
> Seele)
> My mind is set - ich bin fest entschlossen
> Great minds think alike - Zwei Seelen ein Gedanke
> A brilliant mind - ein kluger Kopf (oder groίer Geist)
> I'm speaking my mind - ich sage meine Meinung
> A person with a gloomy mind - ein schwermόtiger Mensch
> To change one's mind - seine Meinung δndern
>
> or when used as a verb:
> I don't mind - Es ist mir egal
> Mind you! - Denk dran (oder pass auf!)
> Would you mind - wόrde es dir etwas ausmachen
> Mind your own business - kόmmer dich um deinen eigenen Kram
> --------------------
You yourself clarified by your own examples what I intended to emphasize
in my posting : It was my intention to bring to the attention of the
readers that English uses the SAME, SINGLE word: "MIND" to describe its
"many senses or meanings", as exemplified by your sentences above,
whereas German uses a "DIFFERENT (phrasal)expression or words" in EACH
of the above cases, to convey the corresponding sense of the SAME word
"mind"-- and that's what causes the dilemma on the part of a beginner
while translating this word.
It is a question of simple arithmatic : What is easier to remember? One
word(=mind)or a variety of words and expressions --to take its place?
John
Oliver Neukum
> word(=mind)or a variety of words and expressions --to take its place?
Surprisingly it's not so simple. You have to know all contexts to use
mind speaking English. They are not obvious and are sometimes exchangeable
with other English words, ie. there's an overlap of mind and mood.
Regards
Oliver
Eva Bekker
Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
<snippedeedoodah>
>It is a question of simple arithmatic : What is easier to remember? One
>word(=mind)or a variety of words and expressions --to take its place?
>
I don't think that is the question. I think, the question is: do you
want to be a mere dictionary or do you want to understand and speak a
language well? To "feel at home" in a language you need to know more
than one word, you need the variety in order to do more than just
robotic translating.
And that's the fun IMHO, finding or sensing the correct terms.
Memorizing words is no fun. I use to do that when I travel to other
countries so I'm able to order a cup of coffee or ask for a hotel
room. But that's by no means speaking the language.
John D.Mukhejee
Eva Bekker wrote:
>
> Am Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:35:21 -0800 erleuchtete John D.Mukhejee das
> Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
> <snippedeedoodah>
>
> >It is a question of simple arithmatic : What is easier to remember? One
> >word(=mind)or a variety of words and expressions --to take its place?
> >
> I don't think that is the question. I think, the question is: do you
> want to be a mere dictionary or do you want to understand and speak a
> language well? To "feel at home" in a language you need to know more
> than one word, you need the variety in order to do more than just
> robotic translating.
> And that's the fun IMHO, finding or sensing the correct terms.
>
> Memorizing words is no fun. I use to do that when I travel to other
> countries so I'm able to order a cup of coffee or ask for a hotel
> room. But that's by no means speaking the language.
>
> Peace
> Eva
> --
Mind you Eva, I am talking about the "beginner" in German. For "him" the
"fun-part" of learning does not start >before< he has developed some
"intellectual appreciation" of the language, which, with his very meager
knowledge of the language,is hard to become aware of. For the beginner,
some "mechanical" learning would be indispensible--no matter what
language you are speaking about. For example, French is a beautiful
language,"once you know it"-- but any learner of that language would
tell you what a grueling task it is to learn the enormous varieties of
French verb-endings ! --Can you honestly tell me an average person is
having "fun" learning the French verbs?...not very likely! Similarly,
for the "beginner"(Anfaenger)--although it might seem an unpleasant
task-- memorzing the various "phrasal expressions" in German related to
the English word "mind" (and other such words) would prove to be
essential for his "later" appreciation of the German language, when he
has come to "know" it substantially well.
Peace
John
Eva Bekker
Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
<snip>
>
>Mind you Eva, I am talking about the "beginner" in German. For "him" the
>"fun-part" of learning does not start >before< he has developed some
>"intellectual appreciation" of the language, which, with his very meager
>knowledge of the language,is hard to become aware of. For the beginner,
>some "mechanical" learning would be indispensible--no matter what
>language you are speaking about. For example, French is a beautiful
>language,"once you know it"-- but any learner of that language would
>tell you what a grueling task it is to learn the enormous varieties of
>French verb-endings ! --Can you honestly tell me an average person is
>having "fun" learning the French verbs?...not very likely! Similarly,
>for the "beginner"(Anfaenger)--although it might seem an unpleasant
>task-- memorzing the various "phrasal expressions" in German related to
>the English word "mind" (and other such words) would prove to be
>essential for his "later" appreciation of the German language, when he
>has come to "know" it substantially well.
>
You're right, the beginner has to start somewhere and memorizing words
is part of learning a new language. But: A beginner usually doesn't
have to cope with complicated expressions - and if something like
'mind' pops up, the beginner usually has to learn a phrase and its
special meaning - not the single word which might be translated in
many ways.
If you like it or not, there *are* words with many meanings. Nobody
said learning a different tongue is easy.
Btw John, do you realize that you post *and* mail your replies? Maybe
your news reader leads a secret life? ;)
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<3DE327D7...@attcanada.ca>:
[...]
>Without any
>context, if I wish to translate the word "mind", I would go for
>"Gemuet", because "Gemuet" would most aptly represent that organ of the
>human body where the thinking process is carried out.
<snip>
I consider this relation wrong, because...
>Also "mind" could be translated by noun-words such as :
>"Verstand","Seele"(soul),"Herz"(??, yes, you read it right), "Meinung",
>"Kopf", "Sinn","Bewusstsein","Achtung", "Gedanke", "Absicht"-- there are
>no signs of "Gemuet" here either!
... I'd relate "Gemuet" to feeling, while "Verstand" is related to
thinking.
Ciao,
Paul
John Mukherjee
I don't get it, Eva : Please explain to me what you mean by, 'I post
*and* mail my replies', so that I may understand what that has to do
with my 'news reader leading a secret life'? If it is something
undesirable, I would certainly stop doing it.
Thanks !
Peace
John
John Mukherjee
John Mukherjee wrote:
>
> Eva Bekker wrote:
> >
> > Am Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:51:21 -0800 erleuchtete John D.Mukhejee das
> > Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
> >
> > <snip>
> > >
Btw John, do you realize that you post *and* mail your replies? Maybe
> > your news reader leads a secret life? ;)
> >
> > Peace
> > Eva
> > --
>
> I don't get it, Eva : Please explain to me what you mean by, 'I post
> *and* mail my replies', so that I may understand what that has to do
> with my 'news reader leading a secret life'? If it is something
> undesirable, I would certainly stop doing it.
> Thanks !
>
> Peace
>
> John
Sorry, Eva, if I have e-mailed you one of my postings inadvertently !
John
Eva Bekker
Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
<snip>
>> Btw John, do you realize that you post *and* mail your replies? Maybe
>> your news reader leads a secret life? ;)
>>
>
>I don't get it, Eva : Please explain to me what you mean by, 'I post
>*and* mail my replies', so that I may understand what that has to do
>with my 'news reader leading a secret life'? If it is something
>undesirable, I would certainly stop doing it.
>Thanks !
>
Well - I received this message (and the ones before) once as private
email plus I see it as a posting in this news group. I was only joking
when I suggested your news reader is leading a secret life - hence the
smiley. I don't mind receiving private emails, I just wondered why you
chose to do both.
That was all. :)
Eva Bekker
Universum mit dieser Weisheit:
<snip>
>
>
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<3DE515ED...@netcom.ca>:
>I don't get it, Eva : Please explain to me what you mean by, 'I post
>*and* mail my replies', so that I may understand what that has to do
>with my 'news reader leading a secret life'? If it is something
>undesirable, I would certainly stop doing it.
Maybe you selected "courtesy copies" in your newsreader options which are
superfluous and slightly disturbing.
Ciao,
Paul