werden worden geworden....oh my
MrAVenez
I'm hoping someone here can help with me to understand this better.. I'm having
a bit of trouble with some words and I can't seem to find a decent explanation
in any of my grammar books...
Here is what I know..
He is getting sick is - Er wird krank
he got sick is - er wurde krank
or he got sick can be -er ist krank geworden..
What I don't understand is the difference between worden and geworden.. I
believe that ist geworden is like the perfect tense... Also, what is the
difference between wurde and ist geworden.. Is each used in a different part of
germany, like "Ich kam" in the north, and "Ich bin gekommen" in the south??
Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.. And please, if
possible, put your answers in example sentences since I find that to be a great
help..
Thanks all, Anthony
Såndor, the Gypsy Baron
In the sentence: "Er wurde krank" wurde is in
German, imperfect tense; in English, past tense.
In the sentence: "Er ist krank geworden" that is German perfect tense;
English past perfect tense.
"worden", by itself is not a word form. The rule is: In the perfect
tenses of the passive voice, the past particle is shortened to "worden"
after another past participle. Example: "Ich bin gebissen worden."
English: I was bitten--better English: something bit me.
Hope that helps.
Sandor
Gerd Thieme
> what is the difference between wurde and ist geworden.. Is each used in a
> different part of germany, like "Ich kam" in the north, and "Ich bin
> gekommen" in the south??
In spoken, colloquial language, it's mostly a regional difference.
Speakers tend to use either perfect tense ("ich bin gekommen") or past
tense ("ich kam") indifferently.
On the other hand, in written language and in more formal speech the
general narrative tense is past tense, and perfect tense is reserved for
[near-present] actions which have been completed.
Gerd
Helmut Richter
> What I don't understand is the difference between worden and geworden.. I
> believe that ist geworden is like the perfect tense... Also, what is the
> difference between wurde and ist geworden.. Is each used in a different part of
> germany, like "Ich kam" in the north, and "Ich bin gekommen" in the south??
Let us forget the N/S difference for a moment and look at the tenses
as used in standard (in this case more N) usage.
The perfect tense "ist gekommen" is used for reporting an event that
has immediate consequences for the present. If someone "ist gekommen",
he is currently here. If someone "kam", he might as well have gone
afterwards. In the same sense, the plus-quam-perfect tense "war
gekommen" is used for reporting an event that has immediate
consequences for the past in which the rest of the narrative plays:
"Als ich das Buch zurückbrachte, hatte ich es schon gelesen."
In all these cases, the English tenses are exactly the same:
kam - came
ist gekommen - has come
war gekommen - had come
There is, however, an important case where English and German usage
differ: when an action has started in the past but continues to the
present. Then, in English the perfect tense is used (as to emphasise
that it began in the past and has still an effect) but in German the
present tense (as to emphasise that it is currently underway):
The machine has been running for four weeks.
Die Maschine läuft seit vier Wochen. (lit.: "runs since")
Totally unrelated to all these considerations, usage of the simple
past tense ("kam") is restricted to written or formal language in
Southern Germany; in the remaining cases, it is replaced by perfect
tense. If such fine distinctions as above are to be made in these
dialects, they might even resort to a plus-quam-plus-quam-perfect
tense: "Wie ich das Buch zurückgebracht habe, habe ich es schon
gelesen gehabt." But this is certainly not something a foreign
learner of German should focus on.
Helmut Richter
Dietmar Schindler
> a bit of trouble with some words and I can't seem to find a decent explanation
> in any of my grammar books...
>
> Here is what I know..
>
> He is getting sick is - Er wird krank
>
> he got sick is - er wurde krank
>
> or he got sick can be -er ist krank geworden..
>
> What I don't understand is the difference between worden and geworden.. I
> believe that ist geworden is like the perfect tense... Also, what is the
> difference between wurde and ist geworden.. Is each used in a different part of
> germany, like "Ich kam" in the north, and "Ich bin gekommen" in the south??
http://www.canoo.net/services/Controller?dispatch=inflection&input=worden
Sebastian Koppehel
> What I don't understand is the difference between worden and
> geworden.
"Werden" can be used as an auxiliary verb for the passive case and as
a full verb (meaning "to become"). In the former case, the participle
is "worden", in the latter case, it is "geworden".
E.g.
"He becomes sick" -> "Er wird krank"
"He became sick" -> "Er ist krank geworden"
"He is seen" -> "Er wird gesehen"
"He was seen" -> "Er ist gesehen worden"
- Sebastian
MK
(gave a link pointing to
a site containing endless tables)
> http://www.canoo.net/services/Controller?dispatch=inflection&input=worden
"Kein Schwein wird das lesen." :-)
Sorry couldn't resist. :-) I hear this sentence (or something
similar) -- pertaining to bad manuals for various software
products -- pretty often on my job here in Germany.
Sorry for a bad joke,
MK, learns German
MK
on "werden". Comparisons with equivalent constructs
in English are especially helpful for people who know
English well, but are learning German.
Kai Henningsen
Maybe that's the context you hear it in, but this usage of "Kein Schwein"
is just a colloquial equivalent of "nobody". There's no value judgement of
any form implied.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)