How to type "dash with an umlaut"?
sam.f...@yahoo.com
plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
with an umlaut above it?
By the by, the plural of "der Computer-anschluss" has the stem vowel
umlauted. Does that mean the "o" after "C" is umlauted? I was never
good with grammar... Thanks.
Sammy
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<1171341267.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>:
>I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
>plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
>with an umlaut above it?
Why would you want to do so?
(Don't know such construction)
>By the by, the plural of "der Computer-anschluss" has the stem vowel
>umlauted. Does that mean the "o" after "C" is umlauted? I was never
>good with grammar... Thanks.
It depends which part you want to pluralize:
- One "Anschluss" for several computers? The German plural of Computer is
"die Computer" - no Umlaut.
- Several "Anschlüsse" for one computer? That would make more sense IMHO:
voila: "Computeranschlüsse"
Note 1: many combined double nouns are put directly together, without a
dash. Did you ever hear of the famous
Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
Note 2: usually the second/last part is the main part being pluralized.
The first/former part is used to further describe it. Here, the "Anschluss"
is distinguished from a water supply, in the second example it is an
"Anhänger" i.e. the pendant of a bunch of keys of the captain of...
Ciao,
Paul
Andy
sam.f...@yahoo.com wrote
>I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
>plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
>with an umlaut above it?
>
find one. Basically, you need to locate a font that contains that
character. Also, if it is an obscure font it is likely that your readers
will not have it, so won't see the desired effect. Consider using PDF?
Or, fudge it by using inverted commas and underlining them!
--
Andy
For Austria & its philately, Lupus, & much else visit
<URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/>
Andy
<alos...@web.de> wrote
>sam.f...@yahoo.com in
><1171341267.0...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>:
>
>>I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
>>plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
>>with an umlaut above it?
>
>Why would you want to do so?
>(Don't know such construction)
It's a common usage in German-English dictionaries, to avoid repeating
the full word (especially if it's as long as the DDSG).
For example, in mine I find "Bund -(e)s, #e" where # is the umlauted
dash character. This means that Bund is nominative singular, Bunds or
Bundes is genitive singular, and Buende is nominative plural.
[]
>Note 1: many combined double nouns are put directly together, without a
>dash. Did you ever hear of the famous
>Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
>
Don't forget the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
Michael Dahms
> I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
> plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
> with an umlaut above it?
Use TeX or a formula-editor!
Michael Dahms
Helmut Richter
> I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
> plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
> with an umlaut above it?
In principle, it works in Unicode with the combining (hence
nonspacing) diaeresis U+0308 (COMBINING DIAERESIS); for instance in HTML:
̈
Some browsers do it correctly, some don't; so do not rely on it. See for
instance http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~hr/tmp/u0308.html .
> By the by, the plural of "der Computer-anschluss" has the stem vowel
> umlauted. Does that mean the "o" after "C" is umlauted? I was never
> good with grammar... Thanks.
From the general rules on German plural you may infer where the umlaut goes:
The formation of plurals called "German-style" in the last section
consists in two changes to the word, of which none, one, or both
take place:
* appending an ending -e, -n, or -er. The -n ending is directly
attached to a schwa ending (Boten, Deichseln, Schwestern) or to
other final -e (Seen, Drogerien), otherwise it becomes -en
(Strahlen, Frauen). An -s or -n at the word end after a short
vowel is doubled before appending an -e or -en ending
(e.g. Busse, Hindernisse, Königinnen)
* change of the vowel of the stressed stem syllable to become an
umlaut: -a- to -ä-, -o- to -ö-, -u- to -ü-, -au- to -äu-. The
umlaut is only possible when the stem is either last syllable
prior to appending the plural ending or when only a schwa ending
follows.
Which of these two changes apply for a given word depends on its gender
and its shape:
1. Words ending with the word stem or with a non-schwa ending
mostly get an -e ending when masculine or neuter, and an -n
ending when feminine.
2. A small number of frequent monosyllabic words of German origin
get a different ending: -er when masculine or neuter, and -e
when feminine.
3. Words with a schwa ending get no plural ending when masculine or
neuter, and an extra -n ending when feminine.
4. In addition, masculine words can get an -n ending; most of them
underlying weak declension as described in the next section.
5. A vowel -a-, -o-, -u-, -au- in the word stem changes to umlaut
always in case 2 of this list, never with an -n ending, and
mainly for masculine words in the remaining cases.
(from http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~hr/lang/de-decln.html)
--
Helmut Richter
Detlev Bartsch
> It's a common usage in German-English dictionaries, to avoid repeating
> the full word (especially if it's as long as the DDSG).
It can't be that common, because I just checked a few dictionaries
in the library and none used this character.
> For example, in mine I find "Bund -(e)s, #e" where # is the umlauted
> dash character.
I found "-e" or "~e" instead. No need for a special character which is
hard to find in ordinary character sets.
Tschüss
db
Michael Pronay
>> For example, in mine I find "Bund -(e)s, #e" where # is the
>> umlauted dash character.
> I found "-e" or "~e" instead. No need for a special character
> which is hard to find in ordinary character sets.
Instead of an umlauted dash one might use the division sign ÷.
That's more common in different charsets/fonts and might be a
suitable substitute.
M.
Andy
<bart...@cs.uni-dortmund.de> wrote
>Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> It's a common usage in German-English dictionaries, to avoid repeating
>> the full word (especially if it's as long as the DDSG).
>
>It can't be that common, because I just checked a few dictionaries
>in the library and none used this character.
Maybe it depends on the country-of-origin of the dictionary. Mine is
"Collins", UK-based. Hammer's German Grammar, 2nd edition, and also
seemingly UK-printed, uses an umlauted space!
Helmut Richter
> Maybe it depends on the country-of-origin of the dictionary. Mine is
> "Collins", UK-based. Hammer's German Grammar, 2nd edition, and also seemingly
> UK-printed, uses an umlauted space!
That's a lot easier. The spacing diaeresis (¨), that is the umlauted
space, is on position U+00A8 in most codes. You should thus find it
between § and © in most code tables.
--
Helmut Richter
Oliver Cromm
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2007, sam.f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
>> plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
>> with an umlaut above it?
>
> In principle, it works in Unicode with the combining (hence
> nonspacing) diaeresis U+0308 (COMBINING DIAERESIS); for instance in HTML:
> ̈
The nearest one-part Unicode symbol I find is the
Apl Functional Symbol Tilde Diaeresis
U+2368
... ⍨ ...
Many people may not see this one correctly as well, but it's contained
in Arial Unicode MS.
--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS
sam.f...@yahoo.com
Ouch. Y'all are hurting my brain... Y'all seem to be well versed in
Deutsch. Here are a few replies:
> ...
> Why would you want to do so?
My text, "Deutsch: Na klar!", ISBN-13: 978-0-07-119975-9, ISBN-10:
0-07-119975-6, has on page 62 the notation for plural nouns that uses
a dash with an umlaut as another poster explained.
> ...
> Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
Hmmm. I was able to get "Danube" "steam" out of that, but I'm stumped.
Was ist dies?
> Don't forget the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
Was ist dies? Danke!
Thanks to all for the suggestions on alternatives for representing the
umlauted dash!
Tschüss,
Sammy
Diedrich Ehlerding
>> Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
>
> Hmmm. I was able to get "Danube" "steam" out of that, but I'm stumped.
> Was ist dies?
A joke about German compound nouns. Here are the cmponents:
Donau-Dampfschiffahrts-Kapitäns-Kajüten-Schlüsselnund-Anhänger
(oops - Damof-Schiff-Fahrt and Schlüssel-Bund, but these are very
frequently used compunds which you should easily find in your
dictionary). Read it from the end:
"pendant (hanging at the) keyring (for the) cabin (of a) captain
(working for a) steamboat navigation (company) (on the) Danube river"
Diedrich
--
pgp-Key (RSA) 1024/09B8C0BD
fingerprint = 2C 49 FF B2 C4 66 2D 93 6F A1 FF 10 16 59 96 F3
HTML-Mail wird ungelesen entsorgt.
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<1171481966.8...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>Ouch. Y'all are hurting my brain... Y'all seem to be well versed in
>Deutsch.
I'm dreadful sorry, but except of Andy we all _are_ Germans in this thread
so far.
>> Why would you want to do so?
>
>My text, "Deutsch: Na klar!", ISBN-13: 978-0-07-119975-9, ISBN-10:
>0-07-119975-6, has on page 62 the notation for plural nouns that uses
>a dash with an umlaut as another poster explained.
My fault - I didn't know this type of notation.
>> Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
>
>Hmmm. I was able to get "Danube" "steam" out of that, but I'm stumped.
>Was ist dies?
It's an old funny example of a veeeery long combined German word.
I'll give it a try to translate it from back to front, which is the way to
read it (dashes added for easier reading):
Donaudampfschifffahrt-kapitäns-kajüten-schlüsselbund-anhänger
The pendant at a bunch of keys for the cabin of a captain of the
Danube steam shipping (company).
BTW: "Donaudampfschifffahrt" was in fact an austrian shipping company's
name, therefore such pendants will very likely have existed.
Google groups may display some more details on that.
>> Don't forget the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
>
>Was ist dies? Danke!
This is new to me, too. I'll leave it to someone else to translate it.
I have the impression that it is a nonsense word monster...
>Thanks to all for the suggestions on alternatives for representing the
>umlauted dash!
You are welcome!
Ciao,
Paul
Andy
sam.f...@yahoo.com wrote
[
>
>> Don't forget the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
>
>Was ist dies? Danke!
>
On 15 March 1811 the Austrian government called in the paper currency
then circulating, the "Bankozettel", and replaced it by a new paper note
of the same face value, the Anticipationsscheine or Einlösungsscheine,
at an exchange of 1 new for 5 old. The notes returned to the central
authorities were incinerated to prevent fraud, and for a time the letter
post service was responsible for this. The person in charge of the
disposal had a rather long job title even by the standards of Postal
Austrian: the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society]
For Austrian philately http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps
sam.f...@yahoo.com
online.de> wrote:
> sam.fed...@yahoo.com meinte:
Thanks for the help with the translation. That's a long word...
Tschüss,
Sammy
sam.f...@yahoo.com
> sam.fed...@yahoo.com in
> <1171481966.813140.236...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Ouch. Y'all are hurting my brain... Y'all seem to be well versed in
> >Deutsch.
>
> I'm dreadful sorry, but except of Andy we all _are_ Germans in this thread
> so far.
Very interesting. I am from the country across the pond from you that
is home to hurricanes, mosquitos, and bland tasting beer. I hope y'all
(are you familiar with "y'all"?) don't mind a few questions on Deutsch
from time to time. I find the language very interesting. It is very
"guttural", which is unique and draws attention, in a good way, to
Americans.
> >> Why would you want to do so?
>
> >My text, "Deutsch: Na klar!", ISBN-13: 978-0-07-119975-9, ISBN-10:
> >0-07-119975-6, has on page 62 the notation for plural nouns that uses
> >a dash with an umlaut as another poster explained.
>
> My fault - I didn't know this type of notation.
In my text book it lists:
der Stuhl, ÷e
Where "÷" is a dash with an umlaut over it. The dash with an umlaut
over it is defined as, "stem vowel is umlauted".
Would a German grammar/text book list, "der Stuhl, der Stühle" instead
of the abbreviation my text uses?
> >> Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
>
> >Hmmm. I was able to get "Danube" "steam" out of that, but I'm stumped.
> >Was ist dies?
>
> It's an old funny example of a veeeery long combined German word.
> I'll give it a try to translate it from back to front, which is the way to
> read it (dashes added for easier reading):
>
> Donaudampfschifffahrt-kapitäns-kajüten-schlüsselbund-anhänger
>
> The pendant at a bunch of keys for the cabin of a captain of the
> Danube steam shipping (company).
I'm guessing that's an inside joke :) ?
> BTW: "Donaudampfschifffahrt" was in fact an austrian shipping company's
> name, therefore such pendants will very likely have existed.
> Google groups may display some more details on that.
>
> >> Don't forget the Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier.
>
> >Was ist dies? Danke!
>
> This is new to me, too. I'll leave it to someone else to translate it.
> I have the impression that it is a nonsense word monster...
>
> >Thanks to all for the suggestions on alternatives for representing the
> >umlauted dash!
>
> You are welcome!
>
> Ciao,
>
> Paul
Tschüss (do many Deutchlanders (is "Deutchlander" a proper word?) use
"Tschüss" to sign-off from a message?),
Sammy
Wolf Behrenhoff
> In my text book it lists:
>
> der Stuhl, ÷e
>
> Where "÷" is a dash with an umlaut over it. The dash with an umlaut
> over it is defined as, "stem vowel is umlauted".
>
> Would a German grammar/text book list, "der Stuhl, der Stühle" instead
> of the abbreviation my text uses?
Usually you will find the word, the gender; the genitive singular and
the plural.
So: "Stuhl, der; -(e)s, Stühle"
Stuhl - the word itself
der - the word is masculine
des Stuhls or des Stuhles: genitive singular
Stühle - nominative plural (it is "die Stühle", but the "die" is omitted
because in plural, it is always "die")
If the plural is different (for example has an umlaut) no abbreviation
is used. If the stem doesn't change, an abbrev. is used. Example:
Auto (=car): "Auto, das; -s, -s"
> Tschüss (do many Deutchlanders (is "Deutchlander" a proper word?) use
> "Tschüss" to sign-off from a message?),
"Deutschlander" is not a proper word.
"Deutschländer" exists, it is the a common surname and also the name of
a sausage :-) --> http://www.meica.de/index.php?sprache=_dt&nav=20
You are looking for the word "Deutsche(r)" (one Deutsche (female) or one
Deutscher (male), many Deutsche)
And for "tschüss", I have seen it as "tschüs" (which I prefer),
"tschüss" and even "tschüß" :-)
I've rarely seen this word in a message, usually something with "Gruß"
is used. Examples:
- Viele Grüße
- Beste Grüße
- Mit freundlichen Gruß/Grüßen (=MfG)
- Liebe Grüße (=LG) *
- Ganz liebe Grüße (=glg) *
- ...
*: use only if you the person you are greeting are (good) friends
Viele Grüße
Wolf
Paul Schmitz-Josten
<1171487064.5...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
(Many Germans in aug)
>Very interesting. I am from the country across the pond from you that
>is home to hurricanes, mosquitos, and bland tasting beer.
Mexico? ;->
> I hope y'all
>(are you familiar with "y'all"?) don't mind a few questions on Deutsch
>from time to time.
This will be perfect!
<snip>
>> Donaudampfschifffahrt-kapitäns-kajüten-schlüsselbund-anhänger
>>
>> The pendant at a bunch of keys for the cabin of a captain of the
>> Danube steam shipping (company).
>
>I'm guessing that's an inside joke :) ?
Yes - a tongue-breaker for kids - you are welcome to add to the snakeword.
(Bancozettelvertilgungsdeputationskassaoffizier)
I should have known that our Austrian neighbours are capable of creating
such a word...
>Tschüss (do many Deutchlanders (is "Deutchlander" a proper word?) use
>"Tschüss" to sign-off from a message?),
Note: People from Deut_s_chland are "Deutsche".
Tschüß is o.k., though it's rather spoken than written, I suppose.
Just to confuse you: There is a variant "Tschö", and a very confirmative
yet inofficial goodbye phrase is "Tschüß mit üß und tschö mit ö".
(opposite to Wolf, I prefer the "ß" and "ss" variants)
IMHO, these are malapropisms of
Ciao,
Paul
Michael Baumgartner
> In my text book it lists:
>
> der Stuhl, ÷e
>
> Where "÷" is a dash with an umlaut over it. The dash with an umlaut
> over it is defined as, "stem vowel is umlauted".
>
> Would a German grammar/text book list, "der Stuhl, der Stühle" instead
> of the abbreviation my text uses?
I've looked through a couple of dictionaries and text books of mine, and
there doesn't seem to exist a commonly accepted practice.
All my Norwegian-German dictionaries use an asterisk to indicate umlaut
("Stuhl, -(e)s, -e*"), most of the monolingual ones - but also the
German-Japanese one - give the full plural form ("Stuhl, -(e)s,
Stühle"). The only dictionary I could find that uses the umlaut-dash
character is one for German-Chinese.
Gruß, Michael
--
Kanji per X-Face! Heute:
TOU / kara: Tang-Dynastie; China, chinesisch
唐手 (Karate), heute meist als 空手 ("leere Hand") geschrieben;
weist auf die chinesische Herkunft dieses Kampfsports hin.
Michael Baumgartner
>> Donaudampfschifffahrtkapitänskajütenschlüsselbundanhänger?
>
> Hmmm. I was able to get "Danube" "steam" out of that, but I'm stumped.
> Was ist dies?
The meaning is almost secondary, for
"Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän" is *the* standard joke
about the ability of the German language to string together an infinite
number of nouns. Germans amuse themselves from time to time by making up
words like that. Here's an example froman ongoing discussion in
de.etc.sprache.deutsch:
"Kurzwarengeschäftseröffnungsfeierpublikumsverköstigungsfachbetriebsleiter"
<news:er17om.3...@boogie.bruhaha.de>
My advice: don't bother with the meaning; Germans are just thrilled by
the uniqueness of their language. ;-) Take the words of one of your
greatest fellow Americans:
| These things are not words, they are alphabetical processions. And
| they are not rare; one can open a German newspaper at any time and
| see them marching majestically across the page -- and if he has any
| imagination he can see the banners and hear the music, too.
This and more humorous remarks on "The Awful German Language" here:
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html
Helmut Richter
> words like that. Here's an example froman ongoing discussion in
> de.etc.sprache.deutsch:
> "Kurzwarengeschäftseröffnungsfeierpublikumsverköstigungsfachbetriebsleiter"
> <news:er17om.3...@boogie.bruhaha.de>
The longest one actually used, that is, not made up for
demonstrating how long compounds can be formed, seems to be:
Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
--
Helmut Richter
Michael Baumgartner
Ah, nice one. It's a bureaucratic monster, of course, and most Germans
can't make heads nor tails of it, although they understand the words
it's made of. It's some law about labelling beef.
Detlev Bartsch
> My advice: don't bother with the meaning; Germans are just thrilled by
> the uniqueness of their language. ;-)
I don't think this is unique. What about
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?
It is just church of St. Mary ... put together more or less for
marketing reasons. They even managed to add five more letters to
get also the longest domain name.
Or take that mountain in New Zealand which name I cannot remember.
Tschüss
db
Michael Baumgartner
'Course you're right. But for all practical purposes ... I mean, who
speaks Welsh or Maori. Or Norwegian, for that matter:
karbondioksidbrannslukningsapparatutsprøytningsdysebruksanvisningvedlegginnholdsfortegnelsene
could be translated as
Kohlendioxidfeuerlöschgerätspritzdüsengebrauchsanweisungsbeilageninhaltsverzeichnis.
Wow, it even got shorter in German.
Claus Färber
> Am Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:17:31 +0100 schrieb Helmut Richter:
>> The longest one actually used, that is, not made up for
>> demonstrating how long compounds can be formed, seems to be:
>>
>> Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
> Ah, nice one. It's a bureaucratic monster, of course, and most Germans
> can't make heads nor tails of it, although they understand the words
> it's made of. It's some law about labelling beef.
No, it's only part of the name, the law is called "Rinderkennzeichnungs-
und Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz",
which is slightly ambigous.
Of course, that's only the "short form" of the name. The full title --
as it appears in official documents -- is: "Gesetz zur Übertragung der
Aufgaben für die Überwachung der Rinderkennzeichnung und Rindfleisch-
etikettierung (Rinderkennzeichnungs- und Rindfleischetikettierungsüber-
wachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz -- RkReÜAÜG M-V)".
Claus
Tom Peel
> I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
> with an umlaut above it?
>
I think what you want is called overstriking. Maybe this page may help
you-- http://helpdesk.princeton.edu/kb/display.plx?id=4558
Try also googling "microsoft word overstrike"
T.
Michael Pronay
> The meaning is almost secondary, for
> "Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän" is *the* standard
> joke about the ability of the German language to string together
> an infinite number of nouns.
There is a historical basis for what you call joke. The "DDSG" or
"Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft" - historically probably
spelled something like "Erste
Donau-Dampfschifffahrts-Actiengesellschaft" or the like, really
existed until a few years.
"DDSG" stills exists, btw, but only as an acronym (same fate as,
eg, UBS, which formerly meant "Union de Banque Suisse" or "Union
Bank of Switzerland"):
<http://www.ddsg-blue-danube.at/en_index.asp>
M.
rozaoleg...@gmail.com
> I'm creating a database of Deutsch/Englisch words and I'd like to put
> plural nouns in the db. Is there a way in MS Windows to type a dash
> with an umlaut above it?
>
> umlauted. Does that mean the "o" after "C" is umlauted? I was never
> good with grammar... Thanks.
>
> Sammy
Here you an find some info about it:
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2e1a/index.htm
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2e1a/fontsupport.htm
Helmut Richter
may be different. Let me try:
⸚ (U+2E1A: hyphen with diaeresis)
-̈ hyphen and (U+0308: diaeresis)
As it is a combining diaeresis, the second version should look the same
as the first. In the font I am now using, neither works: the character
U+2E1A does not exist, and the character U+0308 does not combine
correctly with the hyphen.
The other question: the umlauted character is the *stem* vowel, which is
not necessarily the *stressed* vowel: "Anschluss" has the plural
"Anschlüsse" even though "An-" ist stressed. It is quite simple: it is
always the *last* a, o, u, au which becomes ä, ö, ü, äu. The rules for
plurals are in http://hhr-m.userweb.mwn.de/de-decl/noun/ , especially
the section on German-style plurals.
--
Helmut Richter