haben: does it take the accusative case?
Patrick Jost
This is a really dumb question, and I can't find the answer
anyplace!
Does haben take the accusative or the nominative?
Do you say...
Ich habe der or Ich habe den...
Thanks...please email your answers!
PJ
Mark Line
>This is a really dumb question, and I can't find the answer
>anyplace!
>Does haben take the accusative or the nominative?
>Do you say...
> Ich habe der or Ich habe den...
I don't think there's any verb in German that takes a nominative
object, although there is at least one that takes two accusative
objects, numerous ones that take a dative object (and perhaps also an
accusative object), and probably at least a couple that still take
genitive objects, if anybody still uses them.
"Haben" takes accusative objects when used as a transitive verb (as
opposed to an auxiliary verb).
Ich habe den Stadtplan.
Ich habe dem Offizier einen Tritt gegeben.
-- Mark
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Open Pathways Fax: +1-206-733-6040
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Robb Shecter
>jo...@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Patrick Jost) writes:
>
>>Does haben take the accusative or the nominative?
>
>
> Ich habe dem Offizier einen Tritt gegeben.
>
acting verb...
--
Robb Shecter she...@acm.org
Hung Jung Lu
: jo...@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Patrick Jost) writes:
: >Does haben take the accusative or the nominative?
: >Do you say...
: > Ich habe der or Ich habe den...
: I don't think there's any verb in German that takes a nominative
: object, although there is at least one that takes two accusative
Just trying to make myself a nuisance here... ;-)
J.F. Kennedy said once "Ich bin ein Berliner"... well, I guess
the verb "sein" must be the only one that takes a nominative...
-- Ekki
Per Chr. Jorgensen
One does not usually call it an object. I'd call 'ein Berliner' a
predicative of the subject, and also in the nominative case.
There are other verbs in German with a similar construction.
"Subjekstpredikativ i nominativ" is what it's called in Norwegian,
by the way.... :-)*
PC
* useless information, I know...
--
Per Christian Jorgensen, Grad. Student and Research Assistant
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo, Norway
Gita Enders
: "Haben" takes accusative objects when used as a transitive verb (as
: opposed to an auxiliary verb).
: Ich habe den Stadtplan.
: Ich habe dem Offizier einen Tritt gegeben.
Isn't this second example in the dative case?
Mark Line
I know. I was just pointing out that a dative following 'haben' on the
surface can be confusing to beginners until they recognize that
'haben' is an auxiliary and that the sentence's case-frame is
controlled by the participle. I mentioned this in the part you deleted.
Mark Line
>: >Do you say...
"Sein" and "werden" take two nominatives, but neither are _objects_.
Objects only occur with transitive verbs.
Miguel Carrasquer
Per Chr. Jorgensen <p.c.jo...@easteur-orient.uio.no> wrote:
>> J.F. Kennedy said once "Ich bin ein Berliner"... well, I guess
>> the verb "sein" must be the only one that takes a nominative...
>
>One does not usually call it an object. I'd call 'ein Berliner' a
>predicative of the subject, and also in the nominative case.
>There are other verbs in German with a similar construction.
>
>"Subjekstpredikativ i nominativ" is what it's called in Norwegian,
>by the way.... :-)*
>
>PC
>
>* useless information, I know...
>
More useless information:
Slavic languages use the Instrumental for the predicate, like in
Russian "on byl student-om", `he was a student'. Russian has lost
the verb "to be" in the present, however, so JFK's phrase in
Russian would be:
"Ja -- Berlinec"
In Polish, the instrumental should be used:
"jestem Berlincem"
The origin of this can be traced to cases like (Russian):
"on rabotaet inzhenerom" `he works *as an engineer*'
--
Miguel Carrasquer ____________________ ~~~
Amsterdam [ ||]~
m...@inter.NL.net ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
Ian Glendinning
>"Sein" and "werden" take two nominatives, but neither are _objects_.
>Objects only occur with transitive verbs.
The verb "heissen" also takes the nominative. I'm sure I learned about a
fourth, but I can't bring it to mind right now. I recall it was another one
that expresses identity, like sein and heissen. Werden is also a sort of
identity, of course.
Ian
--
Ian Glendinning Southampton HPC Centre, Computing Services
i...@par.soton.ac.uk University of Southampton, SO17 1BJ, UK
Tel: +44 703 592594 WWW URL: http://hpcc.soton.ac.uk/staff/igl.html
Philip Lantz
takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
Philip Lantz
p...@cirrus.jf.intel.com
Miguel Carrasquer
Philip Lantz <p...@cirrus.jf.intel.com> wrote:
>One of the early responses to this question mentioned a German verb that
>takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
>
Don't know about German, but two accusatives is what got Pyrrhus
in a lot of trouble once. When asked by the South-Italian Greeks
to intervene against Rome, he consulted an oracle, which told him:
"Dico te Romanos vincere"
Edmund Grimley-Evans
> takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
"Fragen", I suppose, as in "das frage ich mich".
Ralph Babel
> One of the early responses to this question mentioned a
> German verb that takes two accusative objects. Can
> somebody satisfy my curiosity?
- abfragen/abhören (»Der Lehrer fragt/hört die Schüler die Vokabeln ab.«)
- kosten (»Das kostet mich nur ein müdes Lächeln.«)
- lehren (»Dich will ich Mores lehren!«)
Mark Line
>Mark Line (mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
>: Ich habe den Stadtplan.
The second example has two objects of 'geben': one accusative (Tritt),
one dative (Offizier). It also has 'haben' as an auxiliary verb, which
is why I included it (the surface sequence of finite-'haben' +
non-accusative sometimes confuses beginners until they catch onto the
business with the participle). Neither of these NP's are objects of
'haben', since 'haben' is just an auxiliary.
Mark Line
>In <1994Aug14....@henson.cc.wwu.edu> mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Line) writes:
>>"Sein" and "werden" take two nominatives, but neither are _objects_.
>>Objects only occur with transitive verbs.
>The verb "heissen" also takes the nominative.
Yep. Any equative very would just link two nominative NP's, so the
case frame could be forced by using a verb as an equative:
Ich bin hier der Chef, und ich bleibe der Chef.
^^^^^^
I think that usage is pretty colloquial, though, or even licentious.
>I'm sure I learned about a
>fourth, but I can't bring it to mind right now. I recall it was another one
>that expresses identity, like sein and heissen. Werden is also a sort of
>identity, of course.
I'll have my valency dictionaries out of storage after Labor Day, and
then we'll know. :)
Mark Line
>One of the early responses to this question mentioned a German verb that
>takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
Selbstverstaendlich, aber das kostet dich den letzten Groschen.
Mark Line
Nope. 'Fragen' used like this is accusative-reflexive, which is not
the same thing as taking two accusative objects (at least, that's not
what I meant, because there are are lots and lots of
accusative-reflexive and dative-reflexive verbs in German -- nothing
particularly noteworthy).
The two-accusative verb I was thinking of was 'kosten' in the sense of
'requiring payment of'.
Anton Nannestad
: p...@cirrus.jf.intel.com (Philip Lantz) writes:
: >One of the early responses to this question mentioned a German verb that
: >takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
: Selbstverstaendlich, aber das kostet dich den letzten Groschen.
: -- Mark
Das kommt auch mir komisch vor! :-)
___ _ _ _ ___ _ an...@kcbbs.gen.nz
/\ |\ | | / \|\ | |\ | /\ |\ ||\ ||_ |_ | /\ | \
/--\| \| | \_/| \| | \|/--\| \|| \||_ _| |/--\|_/
Symbolum est collectio formarum visibilium ad invisiblium demonstrationum
Burkhard Weidmann
>Mark Line (mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
>: Ich habe den Stadtplan.
In the second example the verb is "geben" (used in its pp form "gegeben).
"Haben" is only an aux verb as stated by Mark. And "geben" takes dativ
object. So everything's fine.
Burkhard
chin...@cesi.it
> In <1994Aug14....@henson.cc.wwu.edu> mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Line) writes:
>
>>"Sein" and "werden" take two nominatives, but neither are _objects_.
>>Objects only occur with transitive verbs.
>
> The verb "heissen" also takes the nominative. I'm sure I learned about a
> fourth, but I can't bring it to mind right now. I recall it was another one
> that expresses identity, like sein and heissen. Werden is also a sort of
> identity, of course.
It is "bleiben" (to remain).
---
Giorgio Chinnici | chin...@cesi.it
Milano - Italy | OR giorgio....@galactica.it
"Die Grenzen meiner Sprache bedeuten die Grenzen meiner Welt"
(Ludwig Wittgenstein)
Mark Line
>Mark Line (mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
>: p...@cirrus.jf.intel.com (Philip Lantz) writes:
>: >One of the early responses to this question mentioned a German verb that
>: >takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
>: Selbstverstaendlich, aber das kostet dich den letzten Groschen.
>: -- Mark
>Das kommt auch mir komisch vor! :-)
Ein Berliner gewoehnt sich an allem, sogar am Dativ.
WARNING: Humor, sarcasm and poetic license are _not_ marked explicitly.
Alan McKay
Don't be silly! This is not 2 nominatives!
"das" is definitely accusative, which happens to have the same form
as the nominative!
Silly boy, Trix are for kids!
Mark Line
>et...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans) writes:
>>> One of the early responses to this question mentioned a German verb that
>>> takes two accusative objects. Can somebody satisfy my curiosity?
^^^^^^^^^^
Note the use of 'accusative' here, as opposed to other possible
alternatives, to wit in particular 'nominative'.
>>"Fragen", I suppose, as in "das frage ich mich".
>Don't be silly! This is not 2 nominatives!
>"das" is definitely accusative, which happens to have the same form
>as the nominative!
>Silly boy, Trix are for kids!
And reading is for grown-ups, apparently.
-- Mark
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Mark P. Line Phone/Fax: +1-206-733-6040
P.O. Box F Email: mark...@henson.cc.wwu.edu
Bellingham, WA 98227-0296
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(but not for long)