"NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI"

[Adam Funk]

While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?


--
Disagreeing with Donald Rumsfeld about bombing anybody who gets in our
way is not a crime in this country. It is a wise and honorable idea
that George Washington and Benjamin Franklin risked their lives for.
--- Hunter S Thompson

[Michael Pachta]

Am 26.06.2013 14:25, Adam Funk schrieb:
> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?

Well, stylistically, "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN" would be correct.

But "NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI" is not really wrong. They should have better
written: "Nur Benzin (bleifrei)", which indicates not to use diesel but
petrol/gasoline, and if so, only use unleaded petrol/gasoline. So "NUR
BENZIN BLEIFREI" is a little bit sloppy and/or colloquial.

HTH,

Michael

[Christian Weisgerber]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?

Shaky translation?

Elided comma? "Nur Benzin, bleifrei". Mimics a common style in
shipping manifests, inventory lists, etc, where items are listed
with the most salient term first (red ink pen -> pen, ink, red).
Gasoline, not diesel, and of the unleaded variety.

Postposed adjective? (Cf. "Forelle blau")

Your guess is as good as mine.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-26, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
>> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
>> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?
>
> Shaky translation?
>
> Elided comma? "Nur Benzin, bleifrei". Mimics a common style in
> shipping manifests, inventory lists, etc, where items are listed
> with the most salient term first (red ink pen -> pen, ink, red).
> Gasoline, not diesel, and of the unleaded variety.

Could be; there's some military joke like "pot, chamber, handles
(with), officers (for the use of)".


--
There's no money in poetry, but there's no poetry in
money either. --- Robert Graves

[Joachim Pense]

Am 26.06.2013 21:40, schrieb Adam Funk:
> On 2013-06-26, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
>>> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
>>> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?
>>
>> Shaky translation?
>>
>> Elided comma? "Nur Benzin, bleifrei". Mimics a common style in
>> shipping manifests, inventory lists, etc, where items are listed
>> with the most salient term first (red ink pen -> pen, ink, red).
>> Gasoline, not diesel, and of the unleaded variety.
>
> Could be; there's some military joke like "pot, chamber, handles
> (with), officers (for the use of)".
>
>

Is there a graphical separation between "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" (at
least a line break) that might be intended to denote the logical
separation of the two requirements?

Joachim

[GFH]

On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:25:19 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?

Many signs and notices sacrifice grammar for easy reading. Non-
Germans find the warning, as written, easier to read and under-
stand.

For example: "Deutsche Übersetzung erhältlich" is clear, but
less than perfect German. And it looks nice next to "English
translation available".

GFH

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-27, Arno Martens wrote:

> Wed, 26 Jun 2013 21:52:17 +0200, Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu>,

> wrote:

>>Is there a graphical separation between "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" (at
>>least a line break) that might be intended to denote the logical
>>separation of the two requirements?

I don't think so. IIRC, there is one line (of equal height) for each
of 7 or 8 languages. I don't use the car very often, but I'll check soon.


> Agree.
> Seems to be awfully long for one line unless it's on a large flap.
> Alternatively, it could be small and in one line if put there for the
> North American penchant of 'due diligence'.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the car in question is a Honda, made for
the UK market (steering wheel on the RH side) & bought & used in the
UK.


--
Slade was the coolest band in England. They were the kind of guys
that would push your car out of a ditch. --- Alice Cooper

[Adam Funk]

AIUI, putting petrol/gasoline in a diesel car is much worse than
getting it wrong the other way around, or putting leaded petrol in an
unleaded car. But leaded petrol was discontinued in the UK some years
ago, & in the USA years before that.

Oh wait, Wikipedia says leaded petrol was banned throughout the EU in
2000, & in the USA in 1995. I'm surprised because I expected both
dates to be earlier; I thought it had been banned in the USA in the
1980s, but maybe it was discontinued before the ban took effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead


--
There's a statute of limitations with the law, but not with
your wife. [Ray Magliozzi, Car Talk 2011-36]

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-27, Arno Martens wrote:

> Thu, 27 Jun 2013 22:28:27 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>,

> wrote:
>>AIUI, putting petrol/gasoline in a diesel car is much worse than
>>getting it wrong the other way around,
>
>

> Yup, due to its lower flash point that early self ignition can do some
> real damage to the Diesel engine.

>> or putting leaded petrol in an
>>unleaded car. But leaded petrol was discontinued in the UK some years
>>ago, & in the USA years before that.
>
>

> Leaded gasoline in a car built for unleaded will not do any damage to
> the engine, au contraire, it will be better for the valve seats.

OK, but I think it's bad for the catalytic converter (although AIUI
you have to use leaded a few times to harm it).


--
Master Foo once said to a visiting programmer: "There is more
Unix-nature in one line of shell script than there is in ten
thousand lines of C." --- Eric Raymond

[Andy]

In message <tmsr9ax...@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
<a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote
[

>
>Could be; there's some military joke like "pot, chamber, handles
>(with), officers (for the use of)".
>

Or the Navy version: alleged list of missing items after WWII ran:
Boat, sauce, 27
Boat, tug, 1
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-29, Andy wrote:

> In message <tmsr9ax...@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
><a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote
> [
>>
>>Could be; there's some military joke like "pot, chamber, handles
>>(with), officers (for the use of)".
>>
> Or the Navy version: alleged list of missing items after WWII ran:
> Boat, sauce, 27
> Boat, tug, 1

Excellent!


--
Carrots continue to suffer from the jibes of people who like to
dispense what H. W. Fowler called "worn-out humor."
--- Joy of Cooking 1975

[Walter P. Zähl]

Arno Martens <sne...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 3 Jul 2013 12:06:40 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram), wrote:

>
>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>>> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
>>> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
>>> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?
>>

>> To clearly exclude other liquids, the word »nur« has to be
>> in direct contact with »Benzin«, not with »bleifrei«.
>> »Nur bleifreies Benzin« would not necessarily exclude diesel,
>> because it also might be read as »if you fill in gas,
>> then it has to be nonleaded«. The emphasis of the exclusion
>> is on the word directly after »nur«.
>
>
> Disagree.
>
> Nur Benzin is OK.
> Nur bleifreies. Was?

That's exactly the ambiguity Stefan pointed out above - the emphasis is put
on "unleaded", not on "Benzin"

To recap, the options were (disregarding the captalization; I hate
shouting)
1 Nur Benzin Bleifrei
2 Nur Bleifreies Benzin

1 is clear, 2 could be willfully mis-interpreted as "Any other liquid, as
long as its unleaded". Speculation, yes.

Reality check: those texts wouldn't be there if there was no need for them.
Such need can be created by people abusing the ridiculous Amrican
litigation system, where the prevailing argument appears to be "But nobody
told me to use common sense!"
A much more practical need: a fleet of cars, rental or company, all the
same colour, all the same make. except for the engines - some may use
Diesel, some something else. These day, you may even find a socket under
the flap.

/Walter

[Joachim Pense]

Am 04.07.2013 01:14, schrieb Arno Martens:
> 3 Jul 2013 12:06:40 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram), wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:

>>> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
>>> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
>>> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?
>>

>> To clearly exclude other liquids, the word »nur« has to be
>> in direct contact with »Benzin«, not with »bleifrei«.
>> »Nur bleifreies Benzin« would not necessarily exclude diesel,
>> because it also might be read as »if you fill in gas,
>> then it has to be nonleaded«. The emphasis of the exclusion
>> is on the word directly after »nur«.
>
>
> Disagree.
>
> Nur Benzin is OK.
> Nur bleifreies. Was?
>

"Nur Benzin - bleifrei". Completely clear, and means "only gas, and it
has to be unleaded".

"Nur Benzin bleifrei". Also completely clear, and means "if unleaded,
then it should be gas".

"Nur bleifreies Benzin" is ambiguous. It could either mean; "only gas,
and unleaded", or "if it's gas, then it needs to be unleaded".

I think it's just the same in English:

only petrol - unleaded
only petrol unleaded
only unleaded petrol

Joachim

[Oliver Cromm]

* GFH:

Can you explain how the German in your example is any worse than
the English? I only see that the word "ist"/"is" is omitted in
both languages.

--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum

[Diedrich Ehlerding]

Walter P. Zähl meinte:

> 1 Nur Benzin Bleifrei
> 2 Nur Bleifreies Benzin
>
> 1 is clear, 2 could be willfully mis-interpreted as "Any other liquid,
> as long as its unleaded".

And (1) could be deliberately minsinterpreted as "any other liquid may
contain lead". Both misinterpretations allow the conclusion that the
person who pretends to misunderstand it does it with malice aforethought.

Since it was not yet mentioned: "Benzin bleifrei", without any inflection,
was the usual label on gas pump in those days when there were pumps for
leaded and unleaded fuel at the gas stations. Almost like a brand, not as
if it were just a description.

Diedrich
--
pgp-Key (RSA) 1024/09B8C0BD
fingerprint = 2C 49 FF B2 C4 66 2D 93 6F A1 FF 10 16 59 96 F3
HTML-Mail wird ungeleſen entſorgt.

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article
<nachgestelltes-unflektiert...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> (From now on, I sometimes will use
> an asterisk »*« to represent the letter »a«.)

Why?

[Michael Pachta]

You won't get an answer. He does this all the time, also with URLs
(which he scrambles using ROT13). Afraid of getting sued for mentioning
brand names, maybe?

BTW: does anyone need a tin foil hat?

M.

[GFH]

On Thursday, July 4, 2013 12:55:41 PM UTC-4, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * GFH:
>
>
>
> > On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:25:19 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>
> >> While I was refuelling the car this morning, I noticed the
>
> >> multilingual fuel warning inside the flap includes "NUR BENZIN
>
> >> BLEIFREI"; why isn't it "NUR BLEIFREIES BENZIN"?
>
> >
>
> > Many signs and notices sacrifice grammar for easy reading. Non-
>
> > Germans find the warning, as written, easier to read and under-
>
> > stand.
>
> >
>

> > For example: "Deutsche �bersetzung erh�ltlich" is clear, but

>
> > less than perfect German. And it looks nice next to "English
>
> > translation available".
>
>
>
> Can you explain how the German in your example is any worse than
>
> the English? I only see that the word "ist"/"is" is omitted in
>
> both languages.

German members of the club were asked to send their recommendations
for this notice. Every suggestion was long; some were even two
sentences.

I suggested this short notice. My suggestion was adopted.

The English notice is intended to convey information, not
act as a lesson in style. The German version also conveys
the necessary information.

GFH

[Joachim Pense]

Am 04.07.2013 22:30, schrieb Arno Martens:

>
> Da ich nicht dazu gehöre nehme ich einfach an das 'bleifreies' einfach
> ein Adjektiv für 'Benzin' ist.
>

hat das jemand bestritten?

>> I think it's just the same in English:
>>
>> only petrol - unleaded
>> only petrol unleaded
>> only unleaded petrol
>
>

> Don't know about petrol , but
> gas only - unleaded,
> only gas unleaded,
> only unleaded gas,
> has all the identical meaning to the fellow who pulls up to a gas pump.
>

But if the fellow is a nit picker, the second one means: everything
except gas has to be leaded, and the third one can also mean "if it is
gas, then it needs to be unleaded." If spoken, the two meanings in the
third case are differentiated by the stress: If it is supposed to mean
"it must be gas, and it must be unleaded", then both "gas" and
"unleaded" carry the stress; if it is supposed to mean "if gas, then
unleaded", then only "unleaded" carries the stress. Just like in German.

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 05.07.2013 15:53, schrieb Arno Martens:
> Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:24:30 +0200, Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu>,

> That 'nit picker' cannot be overly astute.
> It is rather amusing to contemplate that someone would be pulling up to
> a filling station and wonder if 'bleifreies' could be an attribute for
> anything else but gasoline.
>

Who in this thread ever suggested that "bleifreies" could be anything
else than an atribute to "gasoline" (or petrol in BE)? How does this
relate to what I wrote?

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 05.07.2013 16:56, schrieb Joachim Pense:
> Am 05.07.2013 15:53, schrieb Arno Martens:
>> Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:24:30 +0200, Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu>,
>> wrote:
>>> Am 04.07.2013 22:30, schrieb Arno Martens:
>>>> Da ich nicht dazu gehöre nehme ich einfach an das 'bleifreies' einfach
>>>> ein Adjektiv für 'Benzin' ist.
>>>
>>> hat das jemand bestritten?
>>>
>>>>> I think it's just the same in English:
>>>>> only petrol - unleaded
>>>>> only petrol unleaded
>>>>> only unleaded petrol
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about petrol , but
>>>> gas only - unleaded,
>>>> only gas unleaded,
>>>> only unleaded gas,
>>>> has all the identical meaning to the fellow who pulls up to a gas pump.
>>>>

>>>s

>>> But if the fellow is a nit picker, the second one means: everything
>>> except gas has to be leaded, and the third one can also mean "if it is
>>> gas, then it needs to be unleaded." If spoken, the two meanings in the
>>> third case are differentiated by the stress: If it is supposed to mean
>>> "it must be gas, and it must be unleaded", then both "gas" and
>>> "unleaded" carry the stress; if it is supposed to mean "if gas, then
>>> unleaded", then only "unleaded" carries the stress. Just like in German.
>>> Joachim
>>
>>
>> That 'nit picker' cannot be overly astute.
>> It is rather amusing to contemplate that someone would be pulling up to
>> a filling station and wonder if 'bleifreies' could be an attribute for
>> anything else but gasoline.
>>
>
> Who in this thread ever suggested that "bleifreies" could be anything
> else than an atribute to "gasoline" (or petrol in BE)? How does this
> relate to what I wrote?
>

We have only one sentence containing "bleifreies": "Nur bleifreies
Benzin". Undoubtedly, and challenged by nobody, "bleifreies" is an
attribute to "Benzin".

It is in both my interpretations of the sentence.

If the sentence is stressed on "bleifreies" only, it means: "if it is
gasoline, make sure it is unleaded. If you prefer filling in water, then
you need not care".

Joachim

[GFH]

I should have mentioned that the first notice about the
availability of translations was in Dutch. If you could
read that notice, you did not need the translation. :-)

I asked that the magazine change the notice of the
availability of an English translation be in English.
From that the Germans got the same idea.

GFH

[Andy]

In message <b3nvoe...@mid.individual.net>, Joachim Pense
<sn...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote
[]

>But if the fellow is a nit picker

You called?

I live in England & have just filled up my car. The only available
combustible fluids are 95 octane lead-free petrol ('gas' if you live
west of Rockall), 98 octane ditto, diesel, and liquified petroleum gas.
So the question of how to tell the driver to use lead-free is irrelevant
since leaded is not available.

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-07-04, Joachim Pense wrote:

> "Nur Benzin - bleifrei". Completely clear, and means "only gas, and it
> has to be unleaded".
>
> "Nur Benzin bleifrei". Also completely clear, and means "if unleaded,
> then it should be gas".
>
> "Nur bleifreies Benzin" is ambiguous. It could either mean; "only gas,
> and unleaded", or "if it's gas, then it needs to be unleaded".
>
> I think it's just the same in English:
>
> only petrol - unleaded
> only petrol unleaded
> only unleaded petrol

I had another look at the fuel flap today to get the full list of
messages in various languages:

UNLEADED FUEL ONLY
--------------------
ESSENCE SANS PLOMB
SEULEMENT
--------------------
ENDAST BLYFRI BENSIN
--------------------
NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI
--------------------
VAIN LYIJYTÖNTÄ BENSIINIÄ
-------------------------
ALLEEN LOODVRIJE BENZINE


(The gap in the top left has a simple drawing of a fuel pump with a
no-symbol (slash in circle) over "Pb".)


--
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-£999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the
myth of the infallible electronic brain. (Verity Stob)

[Joachim Pense]

Am 05.07.2013 20:11, schrieb Arno Martens:
> Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:56:40 +0200, Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu>,

> Message-ID: <nur-20130...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
>

You mean this?

| To clearly exclude other liquids, the word »nur« has to be
| in direct contact with »Benzin«, not with »bleifrei«.
| »Nur bleifreies Benzin« would not necessarily exclude diesel,
| because it also might be read as »if you fill in gas,
| then it has to be nonleaded«. The emphasis of the exclusion
| is on the word directly after »nur«.

No contradiction that "bleifreies" is an attribute to "Benzin". As I
said, if "Benzin" is not stressed, then it can mean: If it is Benzin,
then it has to be bleifrei. If it is anything else, then no condition
applies.

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 05.07.2013 22:15, schrieb Adam Funk:
> On 2013-07-04, Joachim Pense wrote:
>
>> "Nur Benzin - bleifrei". Completely clear, and means "only gas, and it
>> has to be unleaded".
>>
>> "Nur Benzin bleifrei". Also completely clear, and means "if unleaded,
>> then it should be gas".
>>
>> "Nur bleifreies Benzin" is ambiguous. It could either mean; "only gas,
>> and unleaded", or "if it's gas, then it needs to be unleaded".
>>
>> I think it's just the same in English:
>>
>> only petrol - unleaded
>> only petrol unleaded

>> only unleaded petrol (

>
>
> I had another look at the fuel flap today to get the full list of
> messages in various languages:
>
> UNLEADED FUEL ONLY
> --------------------
> ESSENCE SANS PLOMB
> SEULEMENT
> --------------------
> ENDAST BLYFRI BENSIN
> --------------------
> NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI
> --------------------
> VAIN LYIJYTÖNTÄ BENSIINIÄ
> -------------------------
> ALLEEN LOODVRIJE BENZINE
>
>
> (The gap in the top left has a simple drawing of a fuel pump with a
> no-symbol (slash in circle) over "Pb".)
>
>

If "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" are unseparated in one line, so it is one
single advice, not two, then the German advice does not do its job, as
it says that if you want to fill in anything that is unleaded, then it
must be gasoline - which is obviously nonsense.

Notice that "bleifrei" here is _not_ an attribute to "Benzin", so it is
an elided form of something where "bleifrei" is part of a predicate, as
in "nur Benzin darf bleifrei sein".

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

replace "then it can mean" by "then it must mean".

Joachim

[Christian Weisgerber]

Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:

> If "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" are unseparated in one line, so it is one
> single advice, not two, then the German advice does not do its job, as
> it says that if you want to fill in anything that is unleaded, then it
> must be gasoline - which is obviously nonsense.

This, and much of the preceding discussion, is ridiculous beyond
belief.

And you guys haven't even mentioned yet that "Nur" is the name of
various places and people!
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nur
I'm sure further absurdity can be constructed from this.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Joachim Pense]

Am 06.07.2013 01:28, schrieb Arno Martens:
> `Fri, 05 Jul 2013 23:05:03 +0200, Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu>,

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Why not!

Because "Nur bleifreies Benzin" does not necessarily imply "nur Benzin".
It only does so if "Benzin" is stressed. I wrote that several times in
my answers to you now.

"Nur _bleifreies_ _Benzin_" (stress on both words) means: it must be
petrol, and this petrol must be unleaded.

"Nur _bleifreies_ Benzin" (stress on "bleifreies" only) means: if it is
petrol, then it must be unleaded.

Of course, the stress is normally not indicated in the written form,
which makes it ambiguous.

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 06.07.2013 01:16, schrieb Christian Weisgerber:
> Joachim Pense <sn...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>
>> If "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" are unseparated in one line, so it is one
>> single advice, not two, then the German advice does not do its job, as
>> it says that if you want to fill in anything that is unleaded, then it
>> must be gasoline - which is obviously nonsense.
>
> This, and much of the preceding discussion, is ridiculous beyond
> belief.
>

This is the reason that no native speaker of German in his right mind
would write "NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI".

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

OK, maybe the German would consider "BENZIN BLEIFREI" as a fixed
expression, similar to a brand, then he might write something like that.
Still that sounds unplausible to me.

Joachim

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-07-05, Adam Funk wrote:

> I had another look at the fuel flap today to get the full list of
> messages in various languages:
>
> UNLEADED FUEL ONLY

(Yes, the English is arguably ambiguous: there are other kinds of
"fuel" than petrol/gasoline.)

> --------------------
> ESSENCE SANS PLOMB
> SEULEMENT
> --------------------
> ENDAST BLYFRI BENSIN
> --------------------
> NUR BENZIN BLEIFREI
> --------------------
> VAIN LYIJYTÖNTÄ BENSIINIÄ
> -------------------------
> ALLEEN LOODVRIJE BENZINE

I forgot to include the last 2 lines:

PREMIUM / SUPER
95 RON/ROZ MIN.


--
But the government always tries to coax well-known writers into the
Establishment; it makes them feel educated. [Robert Graves]

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-07-07, Arno Martens wrote:

> Sat, 06 Jul 2013 21:44:14 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>,

> wrote:
>>On 2013-07-05, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> I had another look at the fuel flap today to get the full list of
>>> messages in various languages:
>>> UNLEADED FUEL ONLY
>>(Yes, the English is arguably ambiguous: there are other kinds of
>>"fuel" than petrol/gasoline.)
>
>

> Who cares! This isn't about grammar,
> Any fuel, other than petrol, at a filling station _is_ lead free.
> (leaving a back door open in case some of the former Soviet Satellites
> still have leaded gasoline/petrol.


AFAIK, any motor fuel available in Europe or N America is lead free,
but if I put diesel/gas-oil in my car instead of
gasoline/petrol/essence/benzin, I'm going to run into some kind of
trouble. So I think "unleaded fuel only" *is* ambiguous in English,
although I suppose most native speakers of English now mentally
distinguish between "unleaded" (i.e., gasoline/petrol) & "diesel".


--
I used to be better at logic problems, before I just dumped
them all into TeX and let Knuth pick out the survivors.
-- plorkwort

[Ralph Babel]

Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> Joachim Pense wrote:
>
>> If "NUR BENZIN" and "BLEIFREI" are unseparated in one
>> line, so it is one single advice, not two, then the
>> German advice does not do its job, as it says that if
>> you want to fill in anything that is unleaded, then
>> it must be gasoline - which is obviously nonsense.
>
> This, and much of the preceding discussion,
> is ridiculous beyond belief.

Indeed.

Both "nur Benzin bleifrei" and "nur bleifreies Benzin"
(without any further information that would emphasize a
particular part of the phrase) are completely unambiguous
in "nur" referring to the combination (logic intersection)
of "Benzin" and "bleifrei".

And even if the label (logically incorrectly) stated
"kein verbleites Benzin" instead, no one in their sane mind
would try diesel fuel, raspberry juice, or cod-liver oil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOedq3hulug

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-07-09, Arno Martens wrote:

> Blocked for viewers in Canada.
> The dreaded © word.

and the UK


--
It would be unfair to detect an element of logic in the siting of the
Pentagon alongside the National Cemetery, but the subject seems at
least worthy of investigation. --- C Northcote Parkinson

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-07-08, Ralph Babel wrote:

> Both "nur Benzin bleifrei" and "nur bleifreies Benzin"
> (without any further information that would emphasize a
> particular part of the phrase) are completely unambiguous
> in "nur" referring to the combination (logic intersection)
> of "Benzin" and "bleifrei".
>
> And even if the label (logically incorrectly) stated
> "kein verbleites Benzin" instead, no one in their sane mind
> would try diesel fuel, raspberry juice, or cod-liver oil.

You might *accidentally* put diesel in, since it's normal to have both
hoses & handles on one pumping point.

I'm not sure about cod-liver oil, but people do deliberately use
unmodified vegetable oil as a cheap substitute for diesel in some
cars, & as a base for making bio-diesel.


--
The three-martini lunch is the epitome of American efficiency.
Where else can you get an earful, a bellyful and a snootful at
the same time? [Gerald Ford, 1978]

[Christian Weisgerber]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> > And even if the label (logically incorrectly) stated
> > "kein verbleites Benzin" instead, no one in their sane mind
> > would try diesel fuel, raspberry juice, or cod-liver oil.
>
> You might *accidentally* put diesel in, since it's normal to have both
> hoses & handles on one pumping point.

Usually the larger diesel nozzles don't fit into a gasoline tank.
(However, you can accidentally put gasoline into most diesel cars.)

[Adam Funk]

I knew the nozzles were different sizes, but I couldn't remember which
way. Wouldn't it make more sense for the gasoline nozzle to be
bigger, since putting gasoline in a diesel car does more damage?


--
The history of the world is the history of a privileged few.
--- Henry Miller