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Benutzen vs benuetzen.

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ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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Hi All,

My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".

There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...

Cheers,
Carl.
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Manuel Fuchs

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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Hello,

The Duden (21st ed., 1996) claims that "benuetzen" is mostly used in
southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland. IMHO, there is no difference
in meaning, the two words are simply regional variants. (Can one call
them "allosemes" like "allophones" and "allomorphs"?)

Carl wrote:

> My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
> benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
>
> There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
> one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
> that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...

--
Manuel

ICQ: 21896865
home: http://www.fuxfux.de

Karsten Düsterloh

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk wrote:
> There must be some difference in their usage, oder?

Of course. Where I live (southern Ruhr area), noone "benutzt"
"benuetzen"... ;-)


SCNR,
Karsten

BTW: But "nuetzlich" is used - maybe just because the word "nutzlich"
doesn't exist...
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Antia Zeemon

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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On 10 Feb 2000 13:15:20 GMT, ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk () shared
with us:

>
>Hi All,


>
>My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
>benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
>
>There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
>one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
>that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...
>

>Cheers,
>Carl.

Hi!

I would never use the word "benuetzen" -- to me it sounds like bad
grammar (although my dictionary telle me that it's not).
I live in Berlin and most people I know say "benutzen".
I didn't find any diffrerences between "benutzen" and "benuetzen"
other than a geographical.

Antia


Ralf Brune

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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I know both as synonims. In my region (near lake constance) I mainly
heard "benuetzen". In deed I prefer this version.

Ralf

Andy

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Feb 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/10/00
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In article <87udl8$sjr$1...@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk writes

>
>Hi All,
>
>My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
>benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
>
Mine has 'benuetzen' as a dialect variation of 'benutzen' with the
identical meaning.
--
Andy
For Austria & its philately: <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/>
For Lupus: <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/>
For my other interests: <URL:http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/>

Elisabeth Mueller

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Feb 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/11/00
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ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk schrieb:

> Hi All,
>
> My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
> benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
>

> There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
> one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
> that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...
>

Without any ditionary at hand right now, but with my sense as a native speaker
(eastern Austrian, that is),
I "feel" there is a difference.

Ich benutze das Auto und nicht die Strassenbahn.
Ich benuetze das Auto, um damit meine Einkaeufe nach Hause zu bringen.

Ich benutze das Taschentuch, anschliessend werfe ich es weg.
Ich benuetze das Taschentuch, um meine Finger zu reinigen.

Maybe the benuetzen + um zu construction is part of my local dialect? I don't
know. What does anybody else think about it?

I also have the "feeling" that benutzen is more abstract than benuetzen.

Ich benutze andere Menschen, ich nutze ihre Unwissenheit und ihre Schwaechen aus.

Ich benuetze andere Menschen, ich steige auf ihre Schultern, um ueber die Mauer
klettern zu koennen.

Elisabeth
all in my humble opinion


Alexander P. Böhmler

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Feb 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/11/00
to

--

Manuel Fuchs <fuch...@mail.uni-mainz.de> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
38A2C105...@mail.uni-mainz.de...


> Hello,
>
> The Duden (21st ed., 1996) claims that "benuetzen" is mostly used in
> southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland. IMHO, there is no difference
> in meaning, the two words are simply regional variants.

where I live (Stuttgart) "benuetzen" is not used as written word. Sometimes
as dialect, but when it is seen written, everyone thinks it is wrong.


(Can one call
> them "allosemes" like "allophones" and "allomorphs"?)
>
> Carl wrote:
>

> > My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
> > benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
> >
> > There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
> > one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
> > that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...

Andy

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Feb 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/11/00
to
In article <38A420C3...@siemens.at>, Elisabeth Mueller
<elisabet...@siemens.at> writes
>
>
>ph...@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk schrieb:
>
>> Hi All,

>>
>> My German colleagues don't know the difference in usage between
>> benutzen and benuetzen. My dictionary has them down as "to use".
>>
>> There must be some difference in their usage, oder? Or did some
>> one of the many monks copying out the dictionaries make a typo
>> that got copied into a larger dictionary and so on...
>>
>
>Without any ditionary at hand right now, but with my sense as a native speaker
>(eastern Austrian, that is),
>I "feel" there is a difference.
>
>Ich benutze das Auto und nicht die Strassenbahn.
>Ich benuetze das Auto, um damit meine Einkaeufe nach Hause zu bringen.

Is there any sense of "would" here - might you express the same in
english as:

I use the car and not the tram (for this journey I am about to make; or,
as a general lifestyle choice)

but

I would use the car to bring home my shopping (when the need arose)

Ralf Brune

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Feb 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/12/00
to

>Ich benutze das Auto und nicht die Strassenbahn.

I use the car, not the tram.

>Ich benuetze das Auto, um damit meine Einkaeufe nach Hause zu bringen.

I use the car to bring home my shopping (in singular cases and in any
case as well. No need for would)

I would use ... -> ich würde benutzen .... or Normalerweise/eigentlich
benutze ich ...

Übrigens habe ich mir mal die Seiten von Jan Wohlgemuth angesehen
( http://www.geocities.com/~wohli/linguistik/Deutsch/gds1.htm )
und schließe daraus ganz unwissenschaftlich:

ehemals einig korrekt:

ich nütze
Du nutzt
er nutzt
wir nützen
Ihr nutzt
sie nützen

Regel: mit e in der 2 Silbe "ü", ohne 2. Silbe "u". Die allgemeine
Tendenz zur Mischung persönlicher lokaler Sprachbedürfnisse (Einklang
mit dem eigenen Dialekt etc.) mit dem was dem offiziellen Sprachgebrauch
entspricht, führt zur Verwendung beider Formen mit beiden Endungen. Und
das eben regional und persönlich unterschiedlich.

Ich für meinen Teil empfinde beide Varianten als synonym, auch wenn ich
manchmal das Eine oder Andere bevorzuge (ohne eine feste Regel zu
finden).

Ralf

Diedrich Ehlerding

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Feb 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/12/00
to
In article <38A54118...@t-online.de>,

Ralf Brune <Ralf....@t-online.de> writes:
>
> ehemals einig korrekt:
>
> ich nütze
> Du nutzt
> er nutzt
> wir nützen
> Ihr nutzt
> sie nützen
>
> Ich für meinen Teil empfinde beide Varianten als synonym, auch wenn ich
> manchmal das Eine oder Andere bevorzuge (ohne eine feste Regel zu
> finden).

Das sehe ich anders.

"ich nütze irgendjemandem..." = ich bin nützlich für ihn, er hat einen
Nutzen von mir

"ich nutze irgendetwas" = ich benutze diesen Gegenstand, ziehe also
selber Nutzen daraus.

Diedrich
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Alexander P. Böhmler

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Feb 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/12/00
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Zustimmung

Ralf Brune

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Feb 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/16/00
to

Diedrich Ehlerding wrote:
>
> In article <38A54118...@t-online.de>,
> Ralf Brune <Ralf....@t-online.de> writes:
> >
> > ehemals einig korrekt:
> >
> > ich nütze

> > Du nutzt ...

War ja nur ein Versuch, eine Prallele zu anderen sprachgeschichtlichen
Dingen zu ziehen.

> > ... beide Varianten als synonym ...

> Das sehe ich anders.
>
> ... nütze ... = nützlich
> ... nutze ... = benutze

Hallo Dietrich, klingt auch nicht schlecht. Aber in Verbindung mit
anderen Vorsilben (be- ver- ab- ...) durchgespielt kann ich Deine
Version nicht konsequent nachverfolgen. Bleiben wir dabei, daß dieses
Verb regional verschieden angewandt wird, und daß dort, wo beide
Versionen genutzt werden, diese je nach Sprecher und Kulturraum leicht
abweichende Bedeutung haben können.

Ralf

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