Sidonie von Grasenabb
EgriBikvar
Traenen
der Petra von Kant" (by Rainer Werner Fassbinder) both have a character named
"Sidonie von Grasenabb".
The name "Sidonie" appears in ways that seem unusual to a student of German.
In the novel, I see the following conversation between Geert and Effi:
"Du bist nicht einverstanden damit, dasz Crampas kam und uns seine Huelfe
anbot."
"Uns?"
"Ja, uns. Sidonien und mit."
"Sidonien". It is as if the name "Sidonie" had a dative case!
And here is a second short excerpt, in which it is revealed that the name
"Sidonie"
has a genitive case as well:
"Jeder hatte mehr oder weniger seine Freude daran, mit Ausnahme Sidoniens."
I've read quite a few books in German, and I believe that this is the first
time I have
encountered a name that is treated in this special way. Is this at all common
in
German?
Gerd Thieme
> "Sidonien". It is as if the name "Sidonie" had a dative case!
This is archaic. You won't find such use in modern German.
> And here is a second short excerpt, in which it is revealed that the name
> "Sidonie" has a genitive case as well:
>
> "Jeder hatte mehr oder weniger seine Freude daran, mit Ausnahme Sidoniens."
Modern language skips the -n-. However, in most every case, the genitiv
would be substituted by the construct »von Sidonie«.
Gerd
Guido Jurock
> EgriBikvar wrote:
>
>> "Sidonien". It is as if the name "Sidonie" had a dative case!
>
> This is archaic. You won't find such use in modern German.
Don't be so sure. I had a course in school with the topic:
"Marxens Theorie zur Akkumulation des Mehrwertes"
That was in 1994...
guido
--
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Sebastian Koppehel
> Gerd Thieme schrieb:
>> EgriBikvar wrote:
>>
>>> "Sidonien". It is as if the name "Sidonie" had a dative case!
>>
>> This is archaic. You won't find such use in modern German.
>
> Don't be so sure. I had a course in school with the topic:
> "Marxens Theorie zur Akkumulation des Mehrwertes"
Which is the genitive case which has nothing to do with the outdated
dative of names, though.
- Sebastian
--
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Gerd Thieme
> Gerd Thieme schrieb:
>> EgriBikvar wrote:
>>> "Sidonien". It is as if the name "Sidonie" had a dative case!
>> This is archaic. You won't find such use in modern German.
> Don't be so sure. I had a course in school with the topic:
> "Marxens Theorie zur Akkumulation des Mehrwertes"
That's a different case. You will find all the Jurockenschen theories as
correct as all the Thiemensschen refutations.
You still can decline a surname as ever, but the declination of female
given names has changed through recent centuries.
Gerd