[Pronunciation] Clementine

[Isabelle Cecchini]

What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?

I've just heard Jamie Oliver enthusing about a "clementeen", that's why
I'm asking. And I've read Tony's post about "clementine" weather, so
that spurred me on.

My pronouncing dictionaries --Jones and Wells-- say that both
pronunciations can be heard, without any other precision.

Do you pronounce the first name and the word for the fruit differently?

--
Isabelle Cecchini

[Jerry Friedman]

On Jan 31, 11:08 am, Isabelle Cecchini

Both rhyme with "excavating for a mine" for me.

--
Jerry Friedman

[bert]

On Thursday, 31 January 2013 18:08:29 UTC, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?

... teen for the fruit, ... tyne for the person.
--

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <c35495f3-406d-4f67...@u1g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,

Same for me as well.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[LFS]

Me too. I think. Why is it that the more you repeat something to check,
the less sure you are about how you normally say it?

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Cheryl]

On 2013-01-31 3:30 PM, LFS wrote:
> On 31/01/2013 18:37, bert wrote:
>> On Thursday, 31 January 2013 18:08:29 UTC, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>>> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>>
>> ... teen for the fruit, ... tyne for the person.
>>
>
> Me too. I think. Why is it that the more you repeat something to check,
> the less sure you are about how you normally say it?
>

tyne for both.

--
Cheryl

[Peter Young]

Ditto.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Mark Brader]

Isabelle Cecchini:

> > Do you pronounce the first name and the word for the fruit differently?

Jerry Friedman:

> Both rhyme with "excavating for a mine" for me.

Likewise.
--
Mark Brader | "Modern security actually worked most of the time.
Toronto | There hadn't been a city lost in more than five years."
m...@vex.net | --Vernor Vinge, "Rainbows End"

[Katy Jennison]

On 31/01/2013 19:22, Mark Brader wrote:
> Isabelle Cecchini:
>>> Do you pronounce the first name and the word for the fruit differently?
>
> Jerry Friedman:
>> Both rhyme with "excavating for a mine" for me.
>
> Likewise.

Yes, same here.

--
Katy Jennison

[BCD]

***From Southern California, another the same.

Best Wishes,

--BCD

[Paul Wolff]

In message <amvtcm...@mid.individual.net>, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca>
writes

For me, southern educated English, the fruit is -teen, but the name
seems to vary.

In the song - cavern, canyon - the name is bound to be -tyne, because it
has to rhyme with "mine". This must habituate quite a few Britons to
that pronunciation of the name. But when I try to call to mind another
person called Clementine, the only one I can think of is Clementine
Churchill, Winston's wife, and I rather think she must have been
Clement-een.

I checked with Wikipedia that she was local, and not an import. The
article is quite amusing:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clementine_Churchill,_Baroness_Spencer-Chur
chill> and if her social background is as stated, I can't believe that
the -yne ending would have been her family's choice.

Compare poor little Angeline on the village green.
--
Paul

[musika]

I too, as well.
--
Ray
UK

[Robin Bignall]

Me, too.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Nick Spalding]

Katy Jennison wrote, in <keegqj$m3v$2...@news.albasani.net>
on Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:31:32 +0000:

And here.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Likewise (though not if I were in a French grocery and wanted to ask
"Avez-vous des clémentines ?")


--
athel

[John Varela]

IINM the clementine orange originated in Spain. I know I first
encountered one in Madrid in, I think, 1975, where it is called
"clementina". I always pronounce the fruit like the Spanish word
with the terminal "a" omitted. Which is to say, "clementeen".

As for the name, I have never encountered it outside of the song so
for me it rhymes with mine and fine. If I were to meet someone with
that name I would listen to hear how she pronounced it or if
necessary I would ask.

--
John Varela

[musika]

John Varela wrote:
>
> IINM
You are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clementine

the clementine orange originated in Spain. I know I first
> encountered one in Madrid in, I think, 1975, where it is called
> "clementina". I always pronounce the fruit like the Spanish word
> with the terminal "a" omitted. Which is to say, "clementeen".
>
> As for the name, I have never encountered it outside of the song so
> for me it rhymes with mine and fine. If I were to meet someone with
> that name I would listen to hear how she pronounced it or if
> necessary I would ask.

--

Ray
UK

[annily]

I'd never heard of such a fruit, but the first name rhymes with "mine".

[Stan Brown]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:08:29 +0100, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>
> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?

-tine, and as far as I know that's standard US usage.

Did you know that her song matches perfectly the meter of the last
movement of Beethoven's Ninth?

"In a cavern, in a canyon,
Excavating for a mine,
Lived a miner, Forty-Niner,
With his daughter Clementine."

And that's why it has to be -tine. A miner wouldn't excavate for a
"meen".

As far as I know, the fruit is pronounced the same way as the miner's
daughter.

Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <MPG.2b74e6644...@news.individual.net>,

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)

Well, a tangerine and a mandarin orange are the same thing, although
different varieties usually go by different names (the ones called
"tangerine" tend to be bigger). I've seen clementines (in wooden
crates) but have no idea what they technically are. See also
"satsuma".

There are widely believed to be only three "real" species of /Citrus/:
the tangerine/mandarin, the citron, and the pomelo; they readily
hybridize and all of the other varieties are hybrids. But not all
authorities agree, and I don't know what the current state of the APG
evolutionary reconstruction is for these plants. Since they hybridize
so easily, it's difficult to come up with a principled definition of
what should count as a "species" for this genus, although I suppose
sterility might be one way.

[John Holmes]

Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <MPG.2b74e6644...@news.individual.net>,
> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>> clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)
>
> Well, a tangerine and a mandarin orange are the same thing, although
> different varieties usually go by different names (the ones called
> "tangerine" tend to be bigger). I've seen clementines (in wooden
> crates) but have no idea what they technically are. See also
> "satsuma".

In Australia, those would all be called mandarins. At the next-finer level
are varietal or hybrid names such as Imperial or Honey Murcott. I don't
think clementines are grown here, although there's probably a closely
related hybrid with some other name. The way we think of them, the nearest
thing to a mandarin that is not considered a type of mandarin would be a
tangelo.

> There are widely believed to be only three "real" species of /Citrus/:
> the tangerine/mandarin, the citron, and the pomelo; they readily
> hybridize and all of the other varieties are hybrids. But not all
> authorities agree, and I don't know what the current state of the APG
> evolutionary reconstruction is for these plants. Since they hybridize
> so easily, it's difficult to come up with a principled definition of
> what should count as a "species" for this genus, although I suppose
> sterility might be one way.

This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
in many languages:
http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
(warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

[R H Draney]

Stan Brown filted:

>
>As far as I know, the fruit is pronounced the same way as the miner's
>daughter.

As far as I know, the fruit is pronounced "-teen", which is why one brand I
sometimes see is packaged as "Teenies" (the more common brand is "Cuties", so
someone's clearly come down with a case of the precious)....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:37:33 -0500, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:08:29 +0100, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>>
>> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
>> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>
>-tine, and as far as I know that's standard US usage.
>
>Did you know that her song matches perfectly the meter of the last
>movement of Beethoven's Ninth?
>
>"In a cavern, in a canyon,
>Excavating for a mine,
>Lived a miner, Forty-Niner,
>With his daughter Clementine."
>
>And that's why it has to be -tine. A miner wouldn't excavate for a
>"meen".
>
>As far as I know, the fruit is pronounced the same way as the miner's
>daughter.
>
>Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)

I've never heard of a Clementine as a fruit.

"Mandarin orange" is the pommie name for a naartjie.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Guy Barry]

"Isabelle Cecchini" wrote in message news:keebut$igc$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
>forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?

I'm with long "i" for the fruit.

--
Guy Barry

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:34:29 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:

>This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
>in many languages:
>http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
>(warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)

I couldn't find "naartjie".

[Snidely]

Thursday, bert quipped:

> On Thursday, 31 January 2013 18:08:29 UTC, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>
> ... teen for the fruit, ... tyne for the person.

I would agree, except that I would be specific that it was the person
in the song ... and any other person would be handled case-by-case.

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

[Snidely]

Jerry Friedman presented the following explanation :

tan zVr aIn ???

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Guy Barry]

"Stan Brown" wrote in message
news:MPG.2b74e6644...@news.individual.net...

>Did you know that her song matches perfectly the meter of the last
>movement of Beethoven's Ninth?
>
>"In a cavern, in a canyon,
>Excavating for a mine,
>Lived a miner, Forty-Niner,
>With his daughter Clementine."

That metre's pretty common (trochaic tetrameter, with alternating lines
catalectic). Searching for "87.87" in any hymnal will give you plenty of
examples of the type, e.g.:

"As I search the holy scriptures,
Loving Father of mankind,
May my heart be blessed with wisdom,
And may knowledge fill my mind."

--
Guy Barry

[Derek Turner]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:08:29 +0100, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:

> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?

> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>

to rhyme with teen for both [BrE]

[John Dunlop]

Isabelle Cecchini:

> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>

> I've just heard Jamie Oliver enthusing about a "clementeen", that's why
> I'm asking. And I've read Tony's post about "clementine" weather, so
> that spurred me on.
>
> My pronouncing dictionaries --Jones and Wells-- say that both
> pronunciations can be heard, without any other precision.

In LPD2, Wells gives "tyne" as the main pronunciation, which he advises
learners of English to use, for both the common- and proper noun, and gives
"teen" as an alternative.

--
John

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Is that the American "long 'i'", /aI/, as in "mine" or the linguist's
long/tense cardinal /i/ as in "teen"?

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Just sit right back
SF Bay Area (1982-) | and you'll hear a tale,
Chicago (1964-1982) | a tale of the Stanford red
|That started when a little boy
evan.kir...@gmail.com | named Leland did drop dead

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:obg3ao...@gmail.com...

>
>"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
>> "Isabelle Cecchini" wrote in message
>> news:keebut$igc$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>>>Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
>>>forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>>
>> I'm with long "i" for the fruit.
>
>Is that the American "long 'i'", /aI/, as in "mine" or the linguist's
>long/tense cardinal /i/ as in "teen"?

/aI/, which was known as "long 'i'" when I was at school in England. Is
there anything specifically American about it?

Long "a" = /eI/
Long "e" = /i:/
Long "i" = /aI/
Long "o" = /@U/
Long "u" = /ju:/

In other words, it's the name of the vowel, as normally used in words ending
with mute "e" - mate, mete, mite, mote, mute.

--
Guy Barry

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Ah. Prior discussions had given me the impression that "long and
short vowels" was a peculiarly American pedagogical concept. Did you
guys use macrons and breves for them, too?

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |This case--and I must be careful
SF Bay Area (1982-) |not to fall into Spooner's trap
Chicago (1964-1982) |here--concerns a group of warring
|bankers.
evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[John Varela]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 01:37:33 UTC, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Did you know that her song matches perfectly the meter of the last
> movement of Beethoven's Ninth?
>
> "In a cavern, in a canyon,
> Excavating for a mine,
> Lived a miner, Forty-Niner,
> With his daughter Clementine."

And you can also sing it to the tune of the Marine Hymn. And vice
versa, of course. But don't do that near a Marine.

--
John Varela

[Mike L]

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 08:00:04 +0200, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:37:33 -0500, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:08:29 +0100, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>>>
>>> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>>> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
>>> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>>
>>-tine, and as far as I know that's standard US usage.
>>
>>Did you know that her song matches perfectly the meter of the last
>>movement of Beethoven's Ninth?
>>
>>"In a cavern, in a canyon,
>>Excavating for a mine,
>>Lived a miner, Forty-Niner,
>>With his daughter Clementine."
>>
>>And that's why it has to be -tine. A miner wouldn't excavate for a
>>"meen".
>>
>>As far as I know, the fruit is pronounced the same way as the miner's
>>daughter.
>>
>>Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>>clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)
>
>I've never heard of a Clementine as a fruit.
>
>"Mandarin orange" is the pommie name for a naartjie.

Mandarins are the best by a mile for flavour and scent, but British
supermarkets don't typically sell them: instead they offer the almost
seedless Clems and satsumas. Clementines are pretty good, and satsumas
are always rather sour.

--
Mike.

[Steve Hayes]

I don't know satsumas from plum jam.

We get satsuma plum jam in supermarkets here, in tins, but I've never seen one
in the wild. Nor a Clementine, come to that.

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:fw1fan...@gmail.com...

>
>"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

>> Long "a" = /eI/
>> Long "e" = /i:/
>> Long "i" = /aI/
>> Long "o" = /@U/
>> Long "u" = /ju:/
>>
>> In other words, it's the name of the vowel, as normally used in words
>> ending with mute "e" - mate, mete, mite, mote, mute.
>
>Ah. Prior discussions had given me the impression that "long and
>short vowels" was a peculiarly American pedagogical concept.

I'm not totally certain that we used the terms "long" and "short" at school,
but we certainly learned the distinction. I remember being told about
"magic E" that made a vowel "say its name" when it was added to the end of a
word.

>Did you guys use macrons and breves for them, too?

No, but that notation was common in dictionaries when I was young, such as
the Pocket Oxford (which I was rather fond of). I rather liked their
notation as in many cases it was possible to indicate the pronunciation of a
word without respelling - they simply placed the relevant diacritics over
the vowels, and marked the stress. An unmarked vowel was taken to be a
schwa.

--
Guy Barry

[Robert Bannister]

On 1/02/13 2:20 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Jan 31, 11:08 am, Isabelle Cecchini

> <isabelle.cecch...@wanadooo.invalid.fr> wrote:
>> What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
>> Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
>> forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>>

>> I've just heard Jamie Oliver enthusing about a "clementeen", that's why
>> I'm asking. And I've read Tony's post about "clementine" weather, so
>> that spurred me on.
>>
>> My pronouncing dictionaries --Jones and Wells-- say that both
>> pronunciations can be heard, without any other precision.
>>

>> Do you pronounce the first name and the word for the fruit differently?
>
> Both rhyme with "excavating for a mine" for me.
>

> --
> Jerry Friedman
>

I've only come across the fruit a couple of times in my life, but they
were "teens".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

So it's "clementanily"? Or did you mean it rhymes with "yours".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 1/02/13 11:34 AM, John Holmes wrote:
> Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> In article <MPG.2b74e6644...@news.individual.net>,
>> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>>> Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>>> clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)
>>
>> Well, a tangerine and a mandarin orange are the same thing, although
>> different varieties usually go by different names (the ones called
>> "tangerine" tend to be bigger). I've seen clementines (in wooden
>> crates) but have no idea what they technically are. See also
>> "satsuma".
>
> In Australia, those would all be called mandarins. At the next-finer
> level are varietal or hybrid names such as Imperial or Honey Murcott. I
> don't think clementines are grown here, although there's probably a
> closely related hybrid with some other name. The way we think of them,
> the nearest thing to a mandarin that is not considered a type of
> mandarin would be a tangelo.

What about cumquats?

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

That all seems American to me. I don't think we had a special name for
that set of sounds at primary school. We just learnt that e was a magic
letter that changed a (as in fat) to a (as in fate).

"long a" was ah
"long i" was ee
"long u" was oo (as in boot)
the others didn't exist.

--
Robert Bannister

[Stan Brown]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:37:33 -0500, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:08:29 +0100, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
> >
> > What pronunciation of "clementine" do you favour?
> > Does it more or less rhyme with "mine", as in the song about the
> > forty-niner's daughter, or is the last syllable the same as "teen"?
>
> -tine, and as far as I know that's standard US usage.

I suppose my -tine was ambiguous; I should have written -tyne.

I asked a couple of people in the office how they pronounced the
fruit, pointing at a box of them that just happened to be available.
The uniform response was -tyne, and the reaction when I suggested
-teen was a snort of disbelief.

[Stan Brown]

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:08:56 +0000, Mike L wrote:
>
> Mandarins are the best by a mile for flavour and scent, but British
> supermarkets don't typically sell them: instead they offer the almost
> seedless Clems and satsumas. Clementines are pretty good, and satsumas
> are always rather sour.

Around here we get mandarin oranges only in cans (tins). I've never
heard the word satsuma outside of a /Yes, Minister/ episode ("Equal
Opportunities"), and that wasn't a fruit context.

Wikipedia says a satsuma's skin is "lightly attached around the
fruit, enabling it to be peeled very easily in comparison to other
citrus fruits." But it's hard to imagine anything easier to peel
than a clementine.

[Robin Bignall]

They're at their best for eating when younger than that.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Tony Cooper]

A "kumquat" here.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2013-02-01 03:34:29 +0000, John Holmes said:

> Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> In article <MPG.2b74e6644...@news.individual.net>,
>> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>>> Now the bonus question: What if any is the difference: tangerine,
>>> clementine, mandarin orange? (AHD4 is no help at all.)
>>
>> Well, a tangerine and a mandarin orange are the same thing,

WIWAL we had tangerines at Christmas. They were very small and had
about 30 seeds per fruit. Mandarin oranges normally don't have any
seeds at all (probably they're propagated by cuttings, like navel
oranges).

>> although
>> different varieties usually go by different names (the ones called
>> "tangerine" tend to be bigger). I've seen clementines (in wooden
>> crates) but have no idea what they technically are. See also
>> "satsuma".
>
> In Australia, those would all be called mandarins. At the next-finer
> level are varietal or hybrid names such as Imperial or Honey Murcott. I
> don't think clementines are grown here, although there's probably a
> closely related hybrid with some other name. The way we think of them,
> the nearest thing to a mandarin that is not considered a type of
> mandarin would be a tangelo.
>
>
>> There are widely believed to be only three "real" species of /Citrus/:
>> the tangerine/mandarin, the citron, and the pomelo; they readily
>> hybridize and all of the other varieties are hybrids. But not all
>> authorities agree, and I don't know what the current state of the APG
>> evolutionary reconstruction is for these plants. Since they hybridize
>> so easily, it's difficult to come up with a principled definition of
>> what should count as a "species" for this genus, although I suppose
>> sterility might be one way.
>
> This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus
> nomenclature in many languages:
> http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
> (warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)


--

athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2013-02-01 08:08:04 +0000, Steve Hayes said:

> On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:34:29 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
>
>> This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
>> in many languages:
>> http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
>> (warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)
>
> I couldn't find "naartjie".

Why would you want to?


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

They aren't really oranges at all. They're very small and you eat them
whole -- skin and all. As most of the sweetness is in the skin it's
silly not to eat it.


--
athel

[Mike L]

Here, too. They aren't strictly citrus, but _Fortunella_ and hybrids -
unless botanists have changed their minds again. We grew them in Aus,
and my mother made marmalade out of them.

--
Mike.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I eat clementines daily, and have done so for several years. I buy them
myself but I never need to speak the name. I just pick a container of
them off the shelf in a supermarket/minimarket/convenience store.


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Robert Bannister]

I have trained myself not to bite any lady younger than twenty.

--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2013 20:46:47 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr>
wrote:

Because I was told that the list was a list of names of citrus fruit, so I
wanted to find out what other people called naartjies. I've heard Brits call
them "mandarin oranges", so I'd have expected the former to be onj the list if
the latter were.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2013 20:48:54 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr>
wrote:

And what about a loquat?

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:34:29 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:

>This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
>in many languages:
>http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
>(warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)

It seems to be a defective source, as it lacks both "naartjie" and "unshiu".

For a description of a naartjie see:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-naartjie.htm

and in Wikipedia naartjies are described in the article on Citrus Unshiu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_unshiu

[Guy Barry]

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
news:65nqg8tsdr694e0k8...@4ax.com...

I thought it was "kumquat" as well. Not often that BrE and AmE go one way
and AusE another way.

--
Guy Barry

[annily]

Yes. OED gives both spellings with "k" first (and also lists the "c"
spelling as a former version). It also shows an Australian version as
being a different species. Macquarie lists the "c" version first. I've
always used the "c".

[Robert Bannister]

Most dictionaries give both spellings.

--
Robert Bannister

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:

> On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:34:29 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
>
>>This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
>>in many languages:
>>http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
>>(warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)
>
> It seems to be a defective source, as it lacks both "naartjie" and "unshiu".

MW defines "narrtj[i]e" as "tangerine". It doesn't have "unshiu" as
an English word.

> For a description of a naartjie see:
>
> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-naartjie.htm
>
> and in Wikipedia naartjies are described in the article on Citrus Unshiu:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_unshiu

--

Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |I need to get a new colander. My
SF Bay Area (1982-) |old one has holes in it.
Chicago (1964-1982)

evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 04 Feb 2013 10:58:06 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
<evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:34:29 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead> wrote:
>>
>>>This is a good source for those interested in details of citrus nomenclature
>>>in many languages:
>>>http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Citrus_1.html
>>>(warning: there are _lots_ of names, overlapping or synonymous)
>>
>> It seems to be a defective source, as it lacks both "naartjie" and "unshiu".
>
>MW defines "narrtj[i]e" as "tangerine". It doesn't have "unshiu" as
>an English word.

Thanks.

I wouldn't expect it to have "unshiu" as an English word, but I would expect a
document giving "details of citrus nomenclature in many languages" to include
naartjies.

We have cold drinks (pop/soda) that are "naartjie flavoured" and others that
are "tangerine flavoured", and they taste different to me, though of course
artificial flavouring that claims the name of a fruit isn't the same as the
taste of the fruit itself.