film/filum
Sean Holland
An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out in one
syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual pronunciation?
How about other regional pronunciations of "film"?
--
Sean
To e-mail me, take out the garbage.
Herschel Purvis
Shakib Otaqui wrote:
>
> On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:48:34 -0700, in article
> <1998013112...@i2-28.islandnet.com>
> seho...@garbageislandnet.com "Sean Holland" wrote:
>
> SH> How about other regional pronunciations of "film"?
>
> The Irish also tend to say fill-um, Arabs fill-em, and
> Indians flim.
>
> --
> The Jamaicans also say "fill-um".
> Foreigners always spell better than they pronounce.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Shakib Otaqui Al-Quds Consult
Shakib Otaqui
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:48:34 -0700, in article
<1998013112...@i2-28.islandnet.com>
seho...@garbageislandnet.com "Sean Holland" wrote:
SH> An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
SH> syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out in one
SH> syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual pronunciation?
SH> How about other regional pronunciations of "film"?
The Irish also tend to say fill-um, Arabs fill-em, and
Indians flim.
--
Foreigners always spell better than they pronounce.
Cheryl L Perkins
Shakib Otaqui (nom...@alquds.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:48:34 -0700, in article
I've heard fill-um in Canada, but it's not a pronunciation associated
exclusively with Ontario as far as I know. I would assume it was a
difference due to a dialect, like the use of 'chirrun' for 'children'.
Talking about Canadian pronunciation, has anyone beside me seen the TV
movie "Nights below Station Street"? As soon as the heroine, the pregnant
teenage girl from the wrong side of the tracks, opened her mouth, I had
her pegged as central Canada, probably Ontario, lower-class. Later in the
movie she was mocked by her classmates for the way she spoke.
The movie was, I think, filmed in Manitoba, but I don't know if it was
intended to represent Ontario or Manitoba.
Cheryl
--
Cheryl Perkins
cper...@calvin.stemnet.nf.ca
Ken Cashion
seho...@garbageislandnet.com (Sean Holland) writes: > An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
> syllables: fill-um.
>
Western Australia, we heard *fill-um* so much from our local help
that the whole crew started calling it that also. We thought it
an *Australian-thing* -- but then later, we worked with some
Canadians...
By the time the film was edited and distributed, most of the
US crew used *fill-um.* It became an *in-thing* to say -- it had
become *tribal.* When I left the organization six years later,
members of this crew were still using *fill-um.*
Cheers -- Ken Cashion
Derek Bracking
I don't think this is purely an Ontarian way of speaking.
I remember that back in 1941, when I was conscripted into the army
in Perth, Scotland (I emifrated to Canada in 1957), that our drill
sergeant informed us that we were going to the cinema to see a training
fillum.
It seems to me that there are certain people who seem unable to
pronounce certain consecutive consonants. Another example, which I have
heard several times is "ath-er-letes"; there are others which I am sure
members of this newsgroup can supply.
lanza
Epenthesis, which is the linquistic term for insertion of a sound
between other, prescribed, sounds, is fairly common, and can have
rhetorical function, as when Jimmy Stewart used to say, "We-all, now!."
--
******************************
"Jesus wept; Voltaire smiled."
- Victor Hugo
******************************
David McMurray
Shakib Otaqui advises that Sean Holland wrote:
> SH> An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
> SH> syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out in one
> SH> syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual pronunciation?
Ontarians and no, respectively.
--
David (eliminate "hitch" to reply)
Warren Harding
Sean Holland wrote:
>
> An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
>
Is a word -- no.
Warren (a native Ontarian)
Tim Fulmer
lanza wrote:
>
> Epenthesis, which is the linquistic term for insertion of a sound
> between other, prescribed, sounds, is fairly common, and can have
> rhetorical function, as when Jimmy Stewart used to say, "We-all, now!."
And diphthong and digraph?--look for those those two terms in your
dictionary of rhetoric, compare and contrast them, then turn in your
assignment on Friday. Email would be fine. My address is posted with
this brief note.
Avi Jacobson
In article <886294...@alquds.demon.co.uk>,
nom...@alquds.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:48:34 -0700, in article
> <1998013112...@i2-28.islandnet.com>
> seho...@garbageislandnet.com "Sean Holland" wrote:
>
> SH> syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out in one
> SH> syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual pronunciation?
> SH> How about other regional pronunciations of "film"?
>
> The Irish also tend to say fill-um, Arabs fill-em, and
> Indians flim.
>
> --
>
> Foreigners always spell better than they pronounce.
Actually, I have heard many Arabs say [film] as though it were a
perfectly kosher Arabic morpheme, with plural [afla:m]. Of course, there
are Arabs who say [filim] or [filem], just as there are Arabs who say
[binit] or [binet] for [bint], "girl, daughter".
More interesting, I think, is what has happened to "film" in Israeli
Hebrew: many Israelis have adopted the common Arab pronunciation [filim].
But since -im is the masculine plural suffix, [filim] is often construed
as plural, and a back-formed singular [fil] has even developed:
/sh(e)losha filim/, "three rolls of film". /fil exad/, "a single roll of
film".
There is a whole series of related lore about Hebrew bastardizations
originating in proper English.
--
Avi Jacobson, email: Avi.Ja...@pbdir.com | When an idea is
or: Av...@amdocs.com | wanting, a word
| can always be found
Opinions are those of the poster, =NOT= of | to take its place.
Amdocs, Inc. or Pacific Bell Directory. | -- Goethe
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Simon R. Hughes
On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:13:10 GMT, s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:37:26 -0600, Tim Fulmer <ful...@bioc.rice.edu>
> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >And diphthong and digraph?--look for those those two terms in your
> >dictionary of rhetoric, compare and contrast them, then turn in your
> >assignment on Friday. Email would be fine. My address is posted with
> >this brief note.
>
> I never understood why academia and refugees therefrom use
> "compare and contrast". What is the difference? If you're
> comparing "n" things, aren't you automatically bringing out the
> contrasts as well?
Isn't comparing finding similarities and contrasting finding
differences? That's the way I have always justified (other people's)
usage of the phrase.
Simon R. Hughes
mailto:shu...@geocities.com
(Mail not sent directly to the above address will be deleted before being read.)
Markus Laker
s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar):
> I never understood why academia and refugees therefrom use
> "compare and contrast". What is the difference? If you're
> comparing "n" things, aren't you automatically bringing out the
> contrasts as well?
Shall I compare thee to a summer's day, Polar?
The *first* definition of 'compare' given in COD9 is 'express
similarities in; liken'. The meaning 'estimate the similarity or
dissimilarity of; assess the relation between' comes second. So I take
'compare and contrast' to be a concise way of saying 'show how these
items are alike and how they differ'.
Markus Laker
--
a.u.e resources: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~laker/aue/
My real email address doesn't include a Christian name.
Ti-Blanc
Locally, there are streets named Elm and Kathleen, which are often
pronounced Ellum and Kathaleen respectively. The same is true of
Chelmsford which many people pronounce Chemessford. I guess this is akin
to people pronouncing bilingual and mischievous with four sylables
instead of three.
Truly Donovan
On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:13:10 GMT, s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) wrote:
>I never understood why academia and refugees therefrom use
>"compare and contrast". What is the difference? If you're
>comparing "n" things, aren't you automatically bringing out the
>contrasts as well?
Not necessarily.
Dictionarily speaking, "compare" deals with the similarities and
"contrast" deals with the differences.
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
lanza
> If you're
> comparing "n" things, aren't you automatically bringing out the
> contrasts as well?
Not at all; in one case, the focus is on similarities; in the other, it
is on differences.
"Both X from Germany and Y from America was children of poor parents.
Both became great composers. Both died young."
Now when you contrast you say:
"However, here the differences end. Composer X died wealthy; composer Y
died as poor as he began."
Irina Tkachova
Sean Holland wrote:
> An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
> syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out in one
> syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual pronunciation?
> How about other regional pronunciations of "film"?
The English word "film" is extremely difficult to pronounce for most
Russians. There is a clearly defined reason for this: in Russian we
have two different phonemes for the consonant "l" -- palatalized and
non-palatalized phonemes, represented [l'] and [l] respectively. The word
"film" has five letters in Russian, although it has only four sounds,
the fifth letter being used to designate the pronunciation of "l".
The existence of two "l" phonemes (and a special letter to designate the
pronunciation) is very important because they make it possible to
distinguish Russian words otherwise alike. In English, as far as I know,
there are two variants of "l"; but they are just variants of one phoneme,
their use being determined by their different positions in the word. In
Russian [l] and [l'] can occur in one and the same position.
In pronouncing the English "l" Russian learners are apt to make the
following mistakes: a) they replace the alveolar variant of "l" by the
Russian dental consonant and b) they palatalize "l".
By the way, just as the Russians are hard put to master the correct
pronunciation of "film", the Russian pronunciation [fil'm] eludes people
whose native language is English. (I am not quite certain about the
correctness of "elude" in this sentence; maybe I should have used some
other word? Any suggestions would be appreciated.)
ObAUE: at University we were made to learn by heart definitions of
sounds (phonemes); what follows is the definition of [l]:
a forelingual apical alveolar constrictive bicentral lateral sonorant
pronounced with a front secondary focus in the clear variant and
with the back one in the dark variant.
Not only did we have to pronounce the sounds correctly, it was also
necessary to memorize such definitions ad verbum.
Irina Tkachova, Moscow.
tka...@glasnet.ru
In the beginning was the Word (and now - WORD 97)
David McMurray <cdm...@hadanitch.kingston.net> записано в статью
<01bd30ba$29856420$LocalHost@ira>...
> Shakib Otaqui advises that Sean Holland wrote:
>
> > SH> An Ontarionian friend of mine used to pronounce "film" with two
> > SH> syllables: fill-um. I am accustomed to getting the whole word out
in
> one
> > SH> syllable. Ontarionians (Ontarions?), is this your usual
> pronunciation?
>
Albert Marshall
lanza <la...@mail.ncku.edu.tw> wrote
>Epenthesis, which is the linquistic term for insertion of a sound
>between other, prescribed, sounds, is fairly common, and can have
>rhetorical function, as when Jimmy Stewart used to say, "We-all, now!."
I thought that was the plural form of the royal "we", equivalent to
"y'all" ("you-all") v "you".
--
Albert Marshall
Executive French
Language Training for Businesses in Kent
01634 400902
lanza
> Jimmy Stewart used to say, "We-all, now!."
>
> I thought that was the plural form of the royal "we", equivalent to
> "y'all" ("you-all") v "you".
too successfully!) of James Stewart's famous drawl, breaking up "Well"
into two (or multiple!) syllables: "Waahallllll now." I think that's a
little better.
Albert Marshall
lanza <la...@mail.ncku.edu.tw> wrote
>> Jimmy Stewart used to say, "We-all, now!."
>>
>> I thought that was the plural form of the royal "we", equivalent to
>> "y'all" ("you-all") v "you".
>Are you being facetious? I was attempting a phonetic transcription (not
>too successfully!) of James Stewart's famous drawl, breaking up "Well"
>into two (or multiple!) syllables: "Waahallllll now." I think that's a
>little better.
Facetious? Moi?
Allan Rostron
In article <6b2plv$slc$1...@osh2.datasync.com>, Ken Cashion
<kcas...@datasync.com> writes
>
> While assisting in the production of a documentary in
>Western Australia, we heard *fill-um* so much from our local help
>that the whole crew started calling it that also. We thought it
>an *Australian-thing* -- but then later, we worked with some
>Canadians...
I was on holiday in the Northern Territory of Australia a week ago and the tour
bus drivers said not only "fill-um" but also "know-en" and "flow-en"
Allan Rostron
John Clayton
In article <6b353u$5lh$1...@news.soonet.ca>, brac...@victory.soonet.ca (Derek Bracking) writes:
> I don't think this is purely an Ontarian way of speaking.
> I remember that back in 1941, when I was conscripted into the army
> in Perth, Scotland (I emifrated to Canada in 1957), that our drill
> sergeant informed us that we were going to the cinema to see a training
> fillum.
> It seems to me that there are certain people who seem unable to
> pronounce certain consecutive consonants. Another example, which I have
> heard several times is "ath-er-letes"; there are others which I am sure
> members of this newsgroup can supply.
>
This seemed to me to be quite common in Scotland, at least up to seven
years ago when I left. I had an impression that it was more pronounced
in people from the Highlands and Islands. I always attributed it to the
use of Gaelic in these areas, even if the individuals themselves did not
use the language. I was told that these combinations of consonants,
pronounced as in standard English, did not occur.
Certainly pronunciations like 'fillum' and simmilar are very common here
in Fiji. In Fijian, consonants never occur together (with the exception
of 'dr' before somebody corrects me), and people are unable to make the
'lm' sound without interposing a vowel of some sort.
John Clayton
University of the SouthPpacific.
L.I. Endell
John Clayton (clay...@usp.ac.fj) wrote:
(re intrusive schwa)
: This seemed to me to be quite common in Scotland, at least up to seven
: years ago when I left. I had an impression that it was more pronounced
: in people from the Highlands and Islands. I always attributed it to the
: use of Gaelic in these areas, even if the individuals themselves did not
: use the language. I was told that these combinations of consonants,
: pronounced as in standard English, did not occur.
: Certainly pronunciations like 'fillum' and simmilar are very common here
: in Fiji. In Fijian, consonants never occur together (with the exception
: of 'dr' before somebody corrects me), and people are unable to make the
: 'lm' sound without interposing a vowel of some sort.
I remember one of my linguistics lecturers explaining that one way of
deciding which part of India someone was from was to listen to how they
pronounced "school". In some areas [s] isn't word initial and in others it
isn't used in consonant clusters, giving "@school" or "s@chool".
DOn't ask me which areas tho...
Linz
--
Lindsay Endell li...@cam.ac.uk & li...@earthling.net
Conference Administrator, Trinity Hall, Cambridge CB2 1TJ
Ash Nallawalla
L.I. Endell wrote in message <6bfbuc$5n9$1...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
>I remember one of my linguistics lecturers explaining that one way of
>deciding which part of India someone was from was to listen to how they
>pronounced "school". In some areas [s] isn't word initial and in others
it
>isn't used in consonant clusters, giving "@school" or "s@chool".
It is not so much which part of India, but their native language -- Urdu
speakers and people influenced by Urdu speakers around them, e.g.
Northern India has more of them than elsewhere in India. But an Urdu
speaker anywhere, e.g. Pakistan, and a Sindhi speaker, will say "iskool"
for school, "lipistick" for lipstick, and so on. It also depends on the
quality of English education of that person. Many Indian languages can
accommodate the combined consonants, but I imagine Urdu and Sindhi do
not. "PakIstan" (pak = pure; staan=land) is possibly a good example of
this).
Fillum is frequently heard in Hindi, but I suspect it is a lazy form of
pronunciation because "lm" can be written in Hindi. In Indian English,
it sometimes effective to say "phillum" denote a certain type of movie.
L.I. Endell
Ash Nallawalla (a...@melbpc.org.au) wrote:
: It is not so much which part of India, but their native language -- Urdu
: speakers and people influenced by Urdu speakers around them, e.g.
: Northern India has more of them than elsewhere in India. But an Urdu
: speaker anywhere, e.g. Pakistan, and a Sindhi speaker, will say "iskool"
: for school, "lipistick" for lipstick, and so on. It also depends on the
: quality of English education of that person. Many Indian languages can
: accommodate the combined consonants, but I imagine Urdu and Sindhi do
: not. "PakIstan" (pak = pure; staan=land) is possibly a good example of
: this).
Thank you, that was probably what my lecturer said. Unfortunately I may
have missed the original explanation if he mentioned villages. Because he
never could pronounce the initial consonant and my mind would linger on
the "willage ischools" while he got on with educating my peers...