Latin; dodgy Latin; textonymy
Adam Funk
what some things written on a pub wall meant (she didn't say pub
toilet wall, so I assume they were witty signs deliberately placed in
one of the input rooms).
1. "nil illegitimus carborundum"
Well-known mock Latin for "don't let the bastard(s) grind you
down", although I've also seen "non illegitimi carborundum" & other
variations (reflecting Latin's relatively free word order) for
this.
My predictive text refused to make "bastards" but offered
"captaser" instead.
2. "pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant"
I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
--
Le beau est aussi utile que l'utile. [Victor Hugo]
Prai Jei
continuum:
> Yesterday I got two text messages from a relative asking if I knew
> what some things written on a pub wall meant (she didn't say pub
> toilet wall, so I assume they were witty signs deliberately placed in
> one of the input rooms).
Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profunditas quae variat.
(We're always in the sh--, it's only the depth that changes.)
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Dr Peter Young
> 1. "nil illegitimus carborundum"
Sicut disintergat biscottum.
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Joe Fineman
> 2. "pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant"
>
> I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
> could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
No. "Solum" (besides being one of the forms of "solus") can be an
adverb meaning "only".
I looked this up to be sure, but, astonishingly, I remembered it right
after 60 years, during which I have forgotten a good deal.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: A fatal error! I should live so long! :||
Stan Brown
> 2. "pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant"
>
> I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
> could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
I think "solum" is an adverb here.
Dead fish can only swim with the current, or dead fish swim only with
the current.
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Stan Brown
>
> Sicut disintergat biscottum.
That reminds me of a discussion in the faculty room of the prep
school where I taught for a couple of years. I asked the Latin
master the word for butter, because I was drawing a blank.
Without a moment's hesitation, he said, "I can't remember the
nominative, but the ablative is oleo [long e], by means of butter."
I laughed and laughed.
Peter Moylan
> 2. "pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant"
>
> I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
> could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
Wouldn't "soli" mean that the fish were alone?
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Glenn Knickerbocker
>
> I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
> could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
I think it's supposed to modify the predicate, not the subject.
ŹR
Adam Funk
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:19:24 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:
>> 2. "pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant"
>>
>> I get "only dead fish swim with the current", and I think this
>> could be real Latin, but shouldn't "solum" be "soli"?
>
> I think "solum" is an adverb here.
Aha.
> Dead fish can only swim with the current, or dead fish swim only with
> the current.
I was thinking "only dead fish swim with the current" (where "soli"
ought to agree with "pisces"), but I guess "only" (solum) modifies
"with the current", so maybe a more idiomatic translation would be
"dead fish always swim downstream".
--
svn ci -m 'come back make, all is forgiven!' build.xml
Adam Funk
OK, so "dead fish only swim downstream [or 'with the current']",
rather than "only dead fish...".
--
No right of private conversation was enumerated in the Constitution.
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone at the time that it could be
prevented. [Whitfield Diffie]
R H Draney
I think it's intended to translate the Palinism "only dead fish go with the
flow"...it's one of the things she said just before she said she was resigning
as governor because not resigning would mark her as a quitter....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Donna Richoux
>
> I think it's intended to translate the Palinism "only dead fish go with the
> flow"...it's one of the things she said just before she said she was resigning
> as governor because not resigning would mark her as a quitter....r
Our pal Ben Zimmer wrote about that phrase in his column, saying among
other things that 'in 1826 this was already considered "an old saying."'
Sarah Palin, from Pit Bull to Dead Fish?
July 9, 2009
http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/1910/
Nothing about Latin, though.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Adam Funk
> Adam Funk filted:
>>I was thinking "only dead fish swim with the current" (where "soli"
>>ought to agree with "pisces"), but I guess "only" (solum) modifies
>>"with the current", so maybe a more idiomatic translation would be
>>"dead fish always swim downstream".
>
> I think it's intended to translate the Palinism "only dead fish go with the
> flow"...it's one of the things she said just before she said she was resigning
> as governor because not resigning would mark her as a quitter....r
Aha, I clearly haven't been doing my patriotic duty <barf/> to keep up
with Palinisms.
--
And remember, while you're out there risking your life and limb
through shot and shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a
sucker you are. [Rufus T. Firefly]
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Yes. It's surprising how many people have commented on this phrase without
apparently stopping to consider that one interpetation clashes with the grammar
*and* makes no sense, whereas the other at least makes sense (and I suspect is
grammatically OK as well).
Plenty of live fish swim with the current - as do people.
Katy
Adam Funk
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:07:50 +0100, Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>
>> Sicut disintergat biscottum.
"Sic friat crustulum" is the version I've seen (in _Latina pro
Populo_, I think).
> That reminds me of a discussion in the faculty room of the prep
> school where I taught for a couple of years. I asked the Latin
> master the word for butter, because I was drawing a blank.
>
> Without a moment's hesitation, he said, "I can't remember the
> nominative, but the ablative is oleo [long e], by means of butter."
>
> I laughed and laughed.
Pumpkin, Mrs Farnsworth.
But isn't that "by means of oil"? ISTR that the notes in _Winnie Ille
Pu_ say that the Romans didn't have butter so the translator had to
adapt the Greek word as "butyros".
--
Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results,
but that's not why we do it. [Richard Feynman]
Stan Brown
> On 2011-07-26, Stan Brown wrote:
> > Without a moment's hesitation, he said, "I can't remember the
> > nominative, but the ablative is oleo [long e], by means of butter."
> >
> > I laughed and laughed.
>
> Pumpkin, Mrs Farnsworth.
Que?
> But isn't that "by means of oil"?
Probably, though I don't know off hand the Latin nominative for
"oil", much less the ablative.
But the joke was that, in English, "oleo" is short for
"oleomargarine" (now usually called "margarine", a butter substitute
that tastes bad and is full of nasty chemicals but costs less than
the real thing.
Joe Fineman
> Probably, though I don't know off hand the Latin nominative for
> "oil", much less the ablative.
Hey, I guessed right: oleum (neuter); hence, ablative (& dative)
oleo.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: Puritans explained that the commandment not to work :||
||: on Saturday actually meant not to play on Sunday. :||
Adam Funk
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:57:24 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2011-07-26, Stan Brown wrote:
>> > Without a moment's hesitation, he said, "I can't remember the
>> > nominative, but the ablative is oleo [long e], by means of butter."
>> >
>> > I laughed and laughed.
>>
>> Pumpkin, Mrs Farnsworth.
>
> Que?
http://ibcwiki.spaceroom.org/?q=book/export/html/29
--
History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of
urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.
(Thurgood Marshall)