"Boo! Hiss" - Origin and Use

[David Kleinecke]

I made a mistake the first time I tried to focus on this. Again.

"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.

I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
movies. Anybody have any idea?

I have examples from the US and Australia. How widespread is it?

[Mack A. Damia]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:50:49 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I made a mistake the first time I tried to focus on this. Again.
>
>"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
>disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
>
>I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
>movies. Anybody have any idea?

These letters from The Guardian may help.

http://naijatownsquare.com/tech-market/letters-yah-boo-hiss-and-the-origins-of-'audience-manners'/msg17571/#msg17571

>I have examples from the US and Australia. How widespread is it?

Don't know. While I have said the words, I have never written them in
text.

--

[David Kleinecke]

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:03:44 PM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:50:49 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke wrote:
>
> >"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
> >disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
> >
> >I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
> >movies. Anybody have any idea?
>
> These letters from The Guardian may help.
> http://naijatownsquare.com/tech-market/letters-yah-boo-hiss-and-the-origins-of-'audience-manners'/msg17571/#msg17571
>
> >I have examples from the US and Australia. How widespread is it?

The letters in the link do not refer to my question.

In particular the "Boo! Hiss!" I am asking about is a set phrase
occurring outside an audience context.

[Mack A. Damia]

Yes, but you are asking for the origin, and you said that you
suspected it originated in a popular medium like TV or the movies. The
letters all but confirm this.

Since the spoken words became popular in a movie theatre setting, it
would obviously move to the written word, eh?

--

[Guy Barry]

"David Kleinecke" wrote in message
news:b1952785-c6cf-4568...@googlegroups.com...

>
>I made a mistake the first time I tried to focus on this. Again.
>
>"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
>disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
>
>I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
>movies. Anybody have any idea?

I'd guess that it came from the booing of pantomime villains. Since you
don't have pantomime in the US I ought to explain that it's customary for
the audience to start booing and making hissing noises whenever the villain
character appears on stage.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"David Kleinecke" wrote in message

news:bdbd7203-bbcc-46ac...@googlegroups.com...

>In particular the "Boo! Hiss!" I am asking about is a set phrase
>occurring outside an audience context.

As I said earlier, the allusion is almost certainly to a pantomime audience
or other theatre audience. Its use in other contexts seems a perfectly
natural adaptation; one is asked to imagine an audience booing a villain.

--
Guy Barry

[Mack A. Damia]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 05:31:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>You mean like in melodramas, which existed on the stage before they
>were transferred to some of the earliest dramatic films (such as the
>Perils of Pauline series, which was filmed in Fort Lee, New Jersey,
>right about where the George Washington Bridge would be erected
>about 20 years later)?
>
>
>but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
>English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
>disappointment or frustration.

I seem to recall on the old Rockey and Bullwinkle Show that during the
Dudley Do Right bit, when Snidely Whiplash (played by B.A. Foulball)
appeared on the screen, you would not only hear "boo, hiss", but it
was written on the screen, too.

(Do Right was played by K. Farley Dingwipe)

--

[Guy Barry]

"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:3799cfeb-9c0e-4955...@googlegroups.com...

>
>On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:>

>> I'd guess that it came from the booing of pantomime villains. Since you
>> don't have pantomime in the US I ought to explain that it's customary for
>> the audience to start booing and making hissing noises whenever the
>> villain
>> character appears on stage.
>

>You mean like in melodramas, which existed on the stage before they
>were transferred to some of the earliest dramatic films (such as the
>Perils of Pauline series, which was filmed in Fort Lee, New Jersey,
>right about where the George Washington Bridge would be erected
>about 20 years later)?

Something like that, yes.

>but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
>English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
>disappointment or frustration.

It's an obvious transferred meaning. What's your problem? I can't give you
citations of when or where it arose, but it's obvious that it must have come
from the theatre. And I don't think it's recent either - I've been hearing
it all my life. Maybe the internet caused it to spread across the Atlantic.

--
Guy Barry

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:

You mean like in melodramas, which existed on the stage before they
were transferred to some of the earliest dramatic films (such as the
Perils of Pauline series, which was filmed in Fort Lee, New Jersey,
right about where the George Washington Bridge would be erected
about 20 years later)?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:3799cfeb-9c0e-4955...@googlegroups.com...
> >On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:>

> >> I'd guess that it came from the booing of pantomime villains. Since you
> >> don't have pantomime in the US I ought to explain that it's customary for
> >> the audience to start booing and making hissing noises whenever the
> >> villain
> >> character appears on stage.
> >You mean like in melodramas, which existed on the stage before they
> >were transferred to some of the earliest dramatic films (such as the
> >Perils of Pauline series, which was filmed in Fort Lee, New Jersey,
> >right about where the George Washington Bridge would be erected
> >about 20 years later)?
>
> Something like that, yes.

I.e., little or no connection with the peculiarly English institution
of the pantomime.

> >but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
> >English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
> >disappointment or frustration.
>
> It's an obvious transferred meaning. What's your problem? I can't give you

My problems are (1) your post hoc ergo propter hoc, and (2) it must
have an English origin.

> citations of when or where it arose, but it's obvious that it must have come

If you have no data, it is better not to guess.

> from the theatre. And I don't think it's recent either - I've been hearing
> it all my life. Maybe the internet caused it to spread across the Atlantic.

Uh, no. The internets is recent.

[David Kleinecke]

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:37 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 05:31:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

> >On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> >> "David Kleinecke" wrote

> >> >"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
> >> >disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
> >> >I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
> >> >movies. Anybody have any idea?
> >>

. . .

> >but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
> >English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
> >disappointment or frustration.
>
> I seem to recall on the old Rockey and Bullwinkle Show that during the
> Dudley Do Right bit, when Snidely Whiplash (played by B.A. Foulball)
> appeared on the screen, you would not only hear "boo, hiss", but it
> was written on the screen, too.

Thank You. Because you reminded me I remember that too. This is a real
possibility.

I dug out the quote that started me on this. This come from aue

> On Friday, April 11, 2014 6:43:31 AM UTC-7, Peter Percival wrote:
> I had supposed it to be some colonial (boo! hiss!) mocking an accent
> (and thus the user of it), perhaps because they find it stuck-up or
> something like that.

This is the mode of usage I was asking about. Most of the responses
prove I was not getting my question across.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:18:25 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:37 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 05:31:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
>> >> "David Kleinecke" wrote
>
>> >> >"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
>> >> >disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
>> >> >I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
>> >> >movies. Anybody have any idea?
>> >>

>> >but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
>> >English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
>> >disappointment or frustration.
>>

>> I seem to recall on the old Rocky and Bullwinkle Show that during the

>> Dudley Do Right bit, when Snidely Whiplash (played by B.A. Foulball)
>> appeared on the screen, you would not only hear "boo, hiss", but it
>> was written on the screen, too.
>
>Thank You. Because you reminded me I remember that too. This is a real
>possibility.

Problem is that I don't think it happened in every Dudley Do-Right
episode - but hopefully, most of them. I think YouTube has quite a
lot of them; I know I have watched some. Great comedy!

>I dug out the quote that started me on this. This come from aue
>
>> On Friday, April 11, 2014 6:43:31 AM UTC-7, Peter Percival wrote:
>> I had supposed it to be some colonial (boo! hiss!) mocking an accent
>> (and thus the user of it), perhaps because they find it stuck-up or
>> something like that.
>
>This is the mode of usage I was asking about. Most of the responses
>prove I was not getting my question across.

Good luck in finding what you are looking for.

--

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:18:25 PM UTC-4, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:02:37 AM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 05:31:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > >On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:22:11 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> > >> "David Kleinecke" wrote

> > >> >"Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
> > >> >disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
> > >> >I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
> > >> >movies. Anybody have any idea?

> > >but that does _not_ explain how the words /buw his/ entered the
> > >English language as a conventional, and recent, expression of
> > >disappointment or frustration.
>
> > I seem to recall on the old Rockey and Bullwinkle Show that during the
> > Dudley Do Right bit, when Snidely Whiplash (played by B.A. Foulball)
> > appeared on the screen, you would not only hear "boo, hiss", but it
> > was written on the screen, too.
>
> Thank You. Because you reminded me I remember that too. This is a real
> possibility.
> I dug out the quote that started me on this. This come from aue
>
> > On Friday, April 11, 2014 6:43:31 AM UTC-7, Peter Percival wrote:
> > I had supposed it to be some colonial (boo! hiss!) mocking an accent
> > (and thus the user of it), perhaps because they find it stuck-up or
> > something like that.
>
> This is the mode of usage I was asking about. Most of the responses
> prove I was not getting my question across.

I don't see how you can say that. Only one of the responses seemed
to deal with the phenomena of booing and hissing.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/15/14 5:50 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> I made a mistake the first time I tried to focus on this. Again.
>
> "Boo! Hiss!" is a parenthetical insertion some people use to express
> disapproval of what they said (or wrote) just ahead.
>
> I suspect it originated somewhere in a popular medium like TV of
> movies. Anybody have any idea?

...

The first one I can find at GB is from Amazing Stories in 1935, apparently.

'Boo! Hiss! Give 'im the hook! I see a request for "Skylark Three" and
"Spacehounds of IPC." Now there's a sensible young gentleman. And in the
same letter, I see that he does not like Morey's covers and illustrations.'

Unfortunately I can't see anything before that or confirm the date. The
two books mentioned were published in 1930 and 1931. See "space opera"
in other thread.

Other hits are from the '40s.

Or did you do this search already?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Guy Barry]

"David Kleinecke" wrote in message

news:5558d071-132a-4c8c...@googlegroups.com...

I understood your question, but I didn't understand what you found so
remarkable about the usage. How is it different from writing a
parenthetical "hurrah!" or "bravo!" ? One is presumably supposed to imagine
the sound of an audience making these noises.

--
Guy Barry

[Peter T. Daniels]

You don't find "Hurrah bravo!" as a conventional collocation of praise.

[fabzorba]

Wrote the following, then read the thread more
closely, then realized that most of what I wrote
had been picked up by others.

Still, a working-class boy does not throw
away naught just cause no one is hungry right
now, so here it is:

I associate Boo Hiss with reference to melodrama and its derivative,
pantomime, which would put it, in my mind at least, in the 1920s.
It is where the "moustache-twirling" villain comes from. It relates to
light entertainment, for the general public in the case of melodrama,
and more specifically for children with pantomime, It belongs to
the stage, and does not translate well to the screen. Although such
genres have long disappeared, they exist in the folk consciousness
via these small remnants.

Quite often, it is a slight on the more
unsophisticated amongst us, who have yet to realise that everything
is but shades of grey, and life is a morass of very complex ethical
problems which should be pondered over with dignity over a
glass of chardonnay while stroking one's ratty beard with the
free hand.

Compare "Shock! Horror!" which is still used by the leftie
commentariat (never the right) to ridicule simplistic and
"hysterical" views. They thought "the sky would fall in"
nearly always comes in here somewhere.

[Guy Barry]

"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message

news:0fdda9d6-1af7-4dea...@googlegroups.com...

Not together, maybe. Is it the combination of "Boo!" and "Hiss!" that's
regarded as remarkable, rather than the individual terms?

--
Guy Barry

[charles]

In article <6da87efb-fd8d-4ddf...@googlegroups.com>,

fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wrote the following, then read the thread more
> closely, then realized that most of what I wrote
> had been picked up by others.

> Still, a working-class boy does not throw
> away naught just cause no one is hungry right
> now, so here it is:

> I associate Boo Hiss with reference to melodrama and its derivative,
> pantomime, which would put it, in my mind at least, in the 1920s.

Wiki tells us the first English melodrama was performed in 1801

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Jerry Friedman]

And by the way, one of the most successful melodramas was this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-rP77HMXgmEC&pg=PA109

At the beginning of the page you can see the only surviving Familiar
Quotation from a melodrama, as far as I know. (Unless "Curses! Foiled
again!" is from a real melodrama, not a parody.)

But I think most of them were in prose. This was once a famous speech:

http://books.google.com/books?id=aShUAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA267

(Americans of a certain age will note the "land-sharks" near the bottom.)

This is not /Lear/, but it's by no means /The Perils of Pauline/ either.
But to return to the topic, the audience must have booed Black-Ey'd
Susan's landlord and even hissed the conspirators against Richelieu.

(Thanks to Robertson Davies for both examples.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[charles]

In article <lioruo$udv$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 4/17/14 7:39 AM, charles wrote:
> > In article <6da87efb-fd8d-4ddf...@googlegroups.com>,
> > fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Wrote the following, then read the thread more
> >> closely, then realized that most of what I wrote
> >> had been picked up by others.
> >
> >> Still, a working-class boy does not throw
> >> away naught just cause no one is hungry right
> >> now, so here it is:
> >
> >> I associate Boo Hiss with reference to melodrama and its derivative,
> >> pantomime, which would put it, in my mind at least, in the 1920s.
> >
> > Wiki tells us the first English melodrama was performed in 1801

> And by the way, one of the most successful melodramas was this:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=-rP77HMXgmEC&pg=PA109

> At the beginning of the page you can see the only surviving Familiar
> Quotation from a melodrama, as far as I know. (Unless "Curses! Foiled
> again!" is from a real melodrama, not a parody.)

> But I think most of them were in prose.

Yes, probably, but the "melo" bit meant music. The drama was accompanied
by music in the same way that the silent movies were.

[David Kleinecke]

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 6:23:35 AM UTC-7, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message

> >On Thursday, April 17, 2014 2:31:36 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
>
> >> I understood your question, but I didn't understand what you found so
> >> remarkable about the usage. How is it different from writing a
> >> parenthetical "hurrah!" or "bravo!" ? One is presumably supposed to
> >> imagine the sound of an audience making these noises.
> >
> >You don't find "Hurrah bravo!" as a conventional collocation of praise.
>
> Not together, maybe. Is it the combination of "Boo!" and "Hiss!" that's
> regarded as remarkable, rather than the individual terms?

You got it. It is the set phrase "Boo, Hiss" that interests me and
the particular way it is used.

I gave up the search too soon. The 1935 Amazing use seems to be what
I had in mind. That excludes Rocky and Bullwinkle. It occurs to me
that maybe I should be looking at the captions in silent movies.

Anybody ever made a corpus of silent movie texts and captions?

[Mack A. Damia]

Perhaps the earliest-found example of the two words being used
together:

OED:

1884 Chr. World 25 Sept. 717/1 The sibilant hiss and the contemptuous
'boo'.

--

[John Varela]

I think I've know that catchphrase like forever. From the 1950s at
least. Though I think it may have been "Hiss! Boo!"

--
John Varela

[Ross]

OED's collection of examples gives the impression that going "boo!" to show disapproval is a late 19th century innovation, while hissing is much older.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

The OP is looking for the words used together, although my example is
in the wrong order.

I found references to "Boo" as being used in the Greek and Roman
ampitheaters. Showing disapproval by imitating the sound of lowing
oxen. I haven't researched "Hiss", but it may have something to do
with the sound of a snake - a lowly creature.

--

[Mike Barnes]

Same here, except it was "Ya boo hiss!".

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Mike L]

Thanks very much for that. I've spent lazy decades imagining that the
"melo-" component was (impossibly, I now reflect) from Greek _melas_ =
"dark".

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

NTBCW "Siss! Boom! Ra-ra-ra!"

--
Mike.

[charles]

In article <pd33l9prgooan1sja...@4ax.com>,

whereas its from 'melos' - song

[R H Draney]

charles filted:

I always thought it was from "melis" = honey....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[R H Draney]

Mike L filted:

ITYM "Siss-Boom-Ba!"...

(Ed McMahon repeats "Siss-Boom-Ba"...Carnac shoots him a dirty look, then opens
the envelope to read the question: "what is the sound of an exploding
sheep?")...r

[Tom P]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booing