Ethnic insults
Gabriele Azzaro
the actual meaning of the expression "sb's (ADJECTIVE) guinea ass", for
example in:
So what? I'm gonna be sitting in that cell 'til they carry my tight little
guinea ass out in a body bag so why don't you shut up and put me in the
fucking hole. (Oz-101)
The family business not good enough for his skinny guinea ass?
(http://www.dvd.net.au/review.cgi?review_id=855)
I've mentioned this already but seeing as how your dumb guinea ass can't
read English, I guess I'll have to repeat myself
(http://www.dirtyjokesinc.com/joke-irish_jokes-8137.htm)
I always knew his guinea ass was connected to the family...
(http://www.angelfire.com/folk/mikey/awesome.html)
And I still have no energy - in fact my guinea ass missed Sopranos last
night ... (http://blog.myspace.com/lunachicknyc)
My stupid guinea ass can't resist cannoli's.
(http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=851420)
First, is it ethnic at all? Is it meant/felt as an insult at all?
Second, is it pronominal, ie meaning "I" or "you" etc.
Thanks for any help, OED, Cambridge, online dicts don't seem to have it,
Google and Wikipedia don't either... Thanks again, cheers, Gabriele
Tony Cooper
<gaz...@libero.it> wrote:
>Hi all, I am doing some research on ethnic insults, and just cannot find out
>the actual meaning of the expression "sb's (ADJECTIVE) guinea ass", for
>example in:
>
>So what? I'm gonna be sitting in that cell 'til they carry my tight little
>guinea ass out in a body bag so why don't you shut up and put me in the
>fucking hole. (Oz-101)
>
"Guinea" is an offensive term used to describe someone of Italian
descent. See:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19981120
also: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=guinea
The "ass" part of that statement is not part of the expression, but
any insulting term could be used in that statement based on the person
involved. For example, "I'm gonna be sitting in that cell 'til they
carry my tight little nigger ass out in a body bag so why don't you
shut up..."
You might add the Urban Dictionary to your list of references.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Father Ignatius
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> typed:
To be helpfully specific, http://www.urbandictionary.com/
Even more specifically,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=guinea
--
Nat
Do you find that, early-on in casual conversations with strangers,
people kind of widen their eyes and walk away from you? Do you have
trouble making friends? Do you find that, at parties, people who know
you rescue people who don't know you when you engage in casual
conversation? Are you often around people who seemingly have some
strange disorder that causes their eyes to roll? Have you ever been
actually punched in the nose?" --Mr. (The Orlando Sophistricate) Cooper
Gabriele Azzaro
I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself", nothing
particularly insulting about it?
Thanks a million, Gabriele
Gabriele Azzaro
I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself", nothing
emphasizers in sentences like these?
Thanks a million, Gabriele
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Guinea" is an offensive term used to describe someone of Italian
> descent. See:
For completeness, the OED says "of Italian or Spanish origin" ("or one
of similar appearance"). I'm not sure I've heard it used of Spaniards
(although I have a hint of a memory that it might have been used of
Manuel on _Fawlty Towers_), so I would presume "Italian" if I heard it.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Voting in the House of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Representatives is done by means of a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |little plastic card with a magnetic
|strip on the back--like a VISA card,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |but with no, that is, absolutely
(650)857-7572 |*no*, spending limit.
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Sara Lorimer
> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled me. So
> I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself", nothing
> particularly insulting about it?
It's crude and could be hostile, but yes, it does mean "myself."
--
SML
Tony Cooper
<gaz...@libero.it> wrote:
>Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled me. So
>I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself", nothing
>particularly insulting about it?
It's insulting in that it accepts "guinea" as an acceptable term to
use. Compare it to "...my tight little Italian-American ass...".
It's not an insult, as used in your sentence, that is directed at
another party. It's self-deprecating.
If "ass" confuses you, replace it or omit it: "You are going to lock
up this little guinea because...". There is still an insulting
reference to people of Italian descent, but not an insult directed at
another party.
Salvatore Volatile
One thing I pointed out here a while ago was that in Italian-American
communities "guinea" seems to have been acceptable for appropriated
in-group usage in a way that was not true of other offensive terms like
"wop" or "dago". (This may also simply be because it
was always a less offensive term -- I recall that my elder brother's
[non-Italian] friends in junior high called him 'the skinny guinea'.) The
usage here seems to be consistent with that observation.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Steve Hayes
>Hi all, I am doing some research on ethnic insults, and just cannot find out
>the actual meaning of the expression "sb's (ADJECTIVE) guinea ass",
It means that the Security Police budget was so low that they could only
afford a guinea for an ass instead of riding round in an SUV to catch
"terrorists".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Evan Kirshenbaum
Note that it can be used of others, too, as in "Tell him to get his
black ass in here", "If you don't get your skinny little white ass on
stage before I count to ten, ...".
Note that "his ass" by itself is sufficient. Neither the racial
description nor any other ("fat", "cute little") is necessary. Also,
it's often "butt" or "behind", especially in contexts in which (or
from speakers for whom) "ass" is unacceptable.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |_Bauplan_ is just the German word
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |for blueprint. Typically, one
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |switches languages to indicate
|profundity.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Richard Dawkins
(650)857-7572
Tony Cooper
It's one of those things where "I can call me that, but you can't call
me that". An African-American can call himself a "nigger", but it's
entirely different if I call him that.
batdorf
"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:u07vjj...@hpl.hp.com...
> (although I have a hint of a memory that it might have been used of
> Manuel on _Fawlty Towers_), so I would presume "Italian" if I heard
> it.
That was probably in the Spanish language version of Fawlty Towers in
which Manuel became Paolo...an Italian, from Naples I seem to recall.
R H Draney
>
>Note that "his ass" by itself is sufficient. Neither the racial
>description nor any other ("fat", "cute little") is necessary. Also,
>it's often "butt" or "behind", especially in contexts in which (or
>from speakers for whom) "ass" is unacceptable.
Such contexts not, apparently, including "The Late Show With David Letterman",
as witness Calista Flockhart's response to the media's insistence that she must
be suffering from an eating disorder:
"I'd like to take this opportunity just to tell the press to kiss my skinny
white ass"
....r
--
I may not know much about art, but I know
what they tell me I'm supposed to like.
John Dean
"my ass" = me
"your ass" = you
"his / her ass" = him / her
etc etc
All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
CDB
> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> escribió en el mensaje
> news:u07vjj...@hpl.hp.com...
>
>> Manuel on _Fawlty Towers_), so I would presume "Italian" if I heard
>> it.
>
> That was probably in the Spanish language version of Fawlty Towers
> in which Manuel became Paolo...an Italian, from Naples I seem to
> recall.
Could Evan be thinking of the time Polly, in agonies of frustration,
addressed Manuel as "you Dago dodo"?
What is the Spanish equivalent of this use of "guinea", if you please?
OBtheotherquestion: It seems to me that the word "ass" tends to be
unstressed in contexts where it just means "physical self". "I'm gon
whup yo ass," is more likely to mean "I intend to beat you on the
buttocks," if the word "ass" is stressed, "I intend to beat you all
over (or 'on undefined parts of') your body," if the word "whup" is
stressed. A rather fine distinction to insist on in the heat of the
moment, I suppose.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "my ass" = me
> "your ass" = you
> "his / her ass" = him / her
> etc etc
>
> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
Although without "black", "white", or the like, I'd say they're
widespread enough that there's no Black connotation anymore (if there
ever was). Things like "Get your ass in here", "He said he'd throw my
ass in jail", or "I'll kick your ass off the team". Interestingly,
while "skinny little ass" strikes me as Black, "fat ass" seems
neutral.
Thinking about it, I wonder if this didn't come from literal
references to sitting, e.g., "Get your ass off of that table" or "If
you don't get your fat ass in that seat, ..."
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Sometimes I think the surest sign
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |that intelligent life exists
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |elsewhere in the universe is that
|none of it has tried to contact us.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
batdorf
"CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> escribió en el mensaje
news:DE69g.17973$Xl.3...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> What is the Spanish equivalent of this use of "guinea", if you please?
I'm not sure whether you mean an equivalent insult towards a Spaniard or
an equivalent Spanish insult towards an Italian?
As far as the latter is concerned, I like "italianini"...which doesn't
even sound really malicious to my ears. I am sure that there are much
worse ones that I am not familiar with. I can find out if you wish.
julian, from a couple of days back might know some, if he's still
reading...or any other native Spanish speaker who may be looking in.
"Dago", which you mentioned, refers to Italians, Spaniards and
Portuguese and would not be taken kindly...;-)
Gachupín is a predominantely Mexican reference to Spaniards (cachupín
also, from the Portuguese "cachopo", a child or kid), "gallego" used by
lots of other South Americans and refers to Galicians.
But a Spaniard or Hispanoamerican would probably agree with me that the
insults are legion and can vary from town to town.
(A list of some of the common ones here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
I add the following which are not on Wikipedia's list but which are
common, especially on the Internet, and in Spanglish
Sudakas (South Americans)
Centrakas (Central Americans)
Nordakas (North Americans)
Chinakas (Far East)
Negrakas (Africans)
Merdakas (Europeans, from "mierda", shit)
Nordakas are subdivided into
Kanakas (Canadians)
Gringakas (From the USA) o -USAnos- (a play on "gusano", worm)
Chingakas (Mexicans, from the slang word "chingar" which can mean to
fuck, but, in this instance, to molest or to annoy)
Merdakas are subdivided into
mUErdakas (Europeans who are members of the EU, from "morder", to bite)
o -UEsanos- (another play on "gusano", worm)
Conchakas (Non EU Europeans, from the word "concha", shell, but with the
slang meaning of cunt)
the term "-stan" is often added to the end of a pejorative in order to
refer to the country (the etymology is pretty obvious!), thus
"Sudakistan" etc.
Xarnego is usually spelled as charnego and refers to an Andalucían who
has gone to work, usually in a menial or labouring occupation, in
Catalonia.
Polaco, which is actually the legitimate word for Polish, is usually
spelled polako, and, apparently, derives from a troop of Hussars who, as
mercenaries, were particularly brutal when fighting for the Catalans
against the Spanish (this may be apocryphal...)
Sudaca is usually spelled "sudaka"...
batdorf
"batdorf" <b...@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:4ckinpF...@individual.net...
> predominantely
Uff!
John Dean
> "John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net> writes:
>
>> "my ass" = me
>> "your ass" = you
>> "his / her ass" = him / her
>> etc etc
>>
>> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>
> Although without "black", "white", or the like, I'd say they're
> widespread enough that there's no Black connotation anymore (if there
> ever was). Things like "Get your ass in here", "He said he'd throw my
> ass in jail", or "I'll kick your ass off the team". Interestingly,
> while "skinny little ass" strikes me as Black, "fat ass" seems
> neutral.
>
> Thinking about it, I wonder if this didn't come from literal
> references to sitting, e.g., "Get your ass off of that table" or "If
> you don't get your fat ass in that seat, ..."
Seems likely. I can even imagine a Brit saying "Get your fat arse in here."
But not "I'm going to sue your arse for everything you've got."
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
Whether "guinea" is used in an insulting way or not depends on the intention
of the user. I recollect a Sopranos episode in which one of the gangsters,
of Italian descent, referred to himself as "this skinny guinea". I suspect
that, IRL, such a person might well use such a term.
Whether it is held to be insulting or not depends on the hearer. The person
quoted in para 1 would probably react violently if someone, not of Italian
descent, called him a guinea of any kind.
Sadly, the Italian-American Civil Rights League, which could have arbitrated
in such matters, is now defunct.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
I thought he was Mexican in the Spanish version - except in the Basque area
where he was indeed Italian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3730650.stm
"Incompetent Spanish waiter Manuel changes nationality when the show is
broadcast in Spain. He is Manuel the Mexican in most of the country, while
in the Basque region he is an Italian called Manolo."
--
John Dean
Oxford
batdorf
"John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:e438eu$6j4$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I thought he was Mexican in the Spanish version - except in the Basque
> > area where he was indeed Italian.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3730650.stm
>
> "Incompetent Spanish waiter Manuel changes nationality when the show >
> is broadcast in Spain. He is Manuel the Mexican in most of the
> country, while in the Basque region he is an Italian called Manolo."
I think they got that the wrong way round.
Not surprising.
During the local elections in the UK I seem to recall a reference on the
Beeb's site to "the reigns of power"...
Their problem, of course, is that they spend too much money on
threatening letters and their "Enforcement team" to ensure that single
mothers and elderly ladies get bullied, threatened and mightily fined
for not paying the scandalous tax which they refer to as a "licence
fee".
And I doubt you'll be seeing any re-runs of Fawlty Towers or the likes
of Till Death Us do Part..Need I explain why?..:-(
batdorf
"batdorf" <b...@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:4ckosbF...@individual.net...
>> I thought he was Mexican in the Spanish version - except in the
>> Basque > area where he was indeed Italian.
>
> I think they got that the wrong way round.
On second thoughts...I think he was Mexican in Catalonia. (But Italian
in "Spain")
I wasn't even aware that there had been a version in Basque, or Euskera
as they like to call it...;-)
Joe Fineman
> Nordakas are subdivided into
> Kanakas (Canadians)
Have the Hawaiians been told about this?
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: Make sure in advance that if the forces of evil triumph, you :||
||: will be on the losing side. :||
John Dean
> "John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net> escribió en el mensaje
> news:e438eu$6j4$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>> I thought he was Mexican in the Spanish version - except in the
>> Basque > area where he was indeed Italian.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3730650.stm
>>
>> "Incompetent Spanish waiter Manuel changes nationality when the show
>> > is broadcast in Spain. He is Manuel the Mexican in most of the
>> country, while in the Basque region he is an Italian called Manolo."
>
> I think they got that the wrong way round.
> Not surprising.
> During the local elections in the UK I seem to recall a reference on
> the Beeb's site to "the reigns of power"...
> Their problem, of course, is that they spend too much money on
> threatening letters and their "Enforcement team" to ensure that single
> mothers and elderly ladies get bullied, threatened and mightily fined
> for not paying the scandalous tax which they refer to as a "licence
> fee".
Indeed. Bit of a waste of time, too, when the TV Licensing people could be
arranging for Capita and Revenue Management to be doing it for them. But it
*is* naughty of them to call it by the same name the Government do in the
legislation.
> And I doubt you'll be seeing any re-runs of Fawlty Towers or the likes
> of Till Death Us do Part..Need I explain why?..:-(
Because it would interfere with the revenue generated by the sale of the
DVDs? I see the 1972 series of "Till Death" is 3,466 in the Amazon UK sales
ranking while the Complete Fawlty Towers (released 6 months ago) is at 272.
Hell, the "Till Death" collection is 30,995 in the US (it was 24,932
yesterday - slipping). Double Hell, it's 32,524 in Germany (where the
complete Fawlty is 5,373 - yes, including THAT episode). They'd be mad to
interfere with the capitalistic process by giving this stuff away free to
air.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Steve Hayes
wrote:
If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
Frank ess
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
> <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
>>> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which
>>> puzzled
>>> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
>>> nothing particularly insulting about it?
>>>
>>> Thanks a million, Gabriele
>>
>> "my ass" = me
>> "your ass" = you
>> "his / her ass" = him / her
>> etc etc
>>
>> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>
> If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
In a 1960s surfer culture I was acquainted with, the word was "hocks".
"Get your young hocks over here and sit down; we're gettin' ready to
grease (eat)".
--
Frank ess
CDB
> Uff!
Uff indeed. Thanks to you, I am armed with ethnic insults for every
occasion. (It surprises me a little that "Chinakas" isn't used, at
least in South America, to refer to the Indigenakas.)
All I was wondering was whether you could recall the insult offered
Manolo (gracias, Sr. Dean) in the Spanish version of FT; I guess that
was "Italianino". Not deeply wounding, as you say. How about
"Espaguetaka"?
Father Ignatius
batdorf <b...@nospam.com> typed:
> (A list of some of the common ones here.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
Now that is a cool page.
I note the entry:
'Boer , referring to Afrikaners, meaning "farmer"; originally in universally
accepted usage, the term is now obsolete and used pejoratively.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#South_Africans
is
It does not seem to me to be obsolete: I hear it used quite orphan --
sometimes pejoratively, sometimes satirically and sometimes pridefully, as
in 'A boer maak 'n plan'. I saw some '100% BOER' T-shirts at Riebeek-Wes
yust the other day.
'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners' is new
to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk etymology.
--
Nat (posting from alt.usage.english)
"Even Baptists are individuals."
--The Orlando Sophistricate
Donna Richoux
> In news:4ckinpF...@individual.net,
> batdorf <b...@nospam.com> typed:
>
> > (A list of some of the common ones here.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
>
> Now that is a cool page.
>
> I note the entry:
>
> 'Boer , referring to Afrikaners, meaning "farmer"; originally in universally
> accepted usage, the term is now obsolete and used pejoratively.'
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#South_Africans
> is
>
> It does not seem to me to be obsolete: I hear it used quite orphan --
> sometimes pejoratively, sometimes satirically and sometimes pridefully, as
> in 'A boer maak 'n plan'.
But perhaps they mean obsolete as an active term *in English*. Do
English speakers use it freely? Perhaps they quote the fixed saying you
give?
>I saw some '100% BOER' T-shirts at Riebeek-Wes
> yust the other day.
I see it quite often in Dutch, as noun, verb, adjective, element in a
compound... "Boerenkaas" is quite highly regarded, as farm-made cheese,
instead of factory-made.
>
> 'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners' is new
> to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk etymology.
No idea. Sounds like one of those "Oreo" type jokes (black on the
outside and white in the middle). Are mechanical clutchplates famous for
anything?... Onelook links to the Dictionary of Automotive Terms, which
says:
clutch plate:
The clutch discs.
clutch disc:
A spinning plate located at the end of the
driveshaft facing the engine flywheel and covered
with a friction material such as asbestos. When the
clutch is engaged, the disc is squeezed between the
flywheel and the clutch pressure plate, causing the
engine and the transmission to turn at the same
speed. British term is called "clutch plate."
Are the Afrikaners squeezed between the flywheel and the pressure plate?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
batdorf
> Indeed. Bit of a waste of time, too, when the TV Licensing people
> could > be arranging for Capita and Revenue Management to be doing it
> for them.
Thanks. I'd forgotten that the Beeb were now using professional
thugs..:-)
These days I just tend to discard the letters as soon as I realise who
they are from. I forget how many times I have written to the dolts in an
attempt to explain to them that I no longer live in the UK and that my
house there no longer contains a TV (not that I'd be inclined to pay the
fee even if it did!)
I've stopped bothering.
An awful waste of money wouldn't you say, mine included?
(Although I'm sure Capita are doing very nicely out of it!)
Wayne Brown
[...]
> All I was wondering was whether you could recall the insult
> offered Manolo (gracias, Sr. Dean) in the Spanish version of
> FT; I guess that was "Italianino". Not deeply wounding, as
> you say. How about "Espaguetaka"?
The use of diminutives as pejoratives seems to be widespread.
For example, there's a Russian equivalent for "Italianino" --
"italyashka," which some may not find deeply wounding, but it's
definitely an ethnic putdown, just a the Russian dimininutive
for a US-American, "amerikashka," is regularly used in an
insulting manner. Does English uses diminutive suffixes
pejoratively? I can't think of any examples. The word "little"
seems to be used pejoratively in some cases for people: "You
little fart!" "You little liar!" "You little troublemaker!"
Regards, ----- WB.
John Holmes
>
> 'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners'
> is new to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk
> etymology.
It's not from Boer = Borg (Warner, makers of clutches), is it?
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Percival P. Cassidy
>> And I doubt you'll be seeing any re-runs of Fawlty Towers or the likes
>> of Till Death Us do Part..Need I explain why?..:-(
>
> Treasury's media consultancy groups, whose job is to maximise the BBC's
> income, do not favour repeats of popular series where the series has
> trickle-down earning potential. What they do allow is occasional one-off
> repeats of single episodes as market warmers.
Aha! So perhaps that's why we keep getting the same few episodes (in
random sequence) of "Coupling" and "AbFab" on BBC America: these are
intended merely as a teaser to induce us to go out and buy the whole set
on DVD. ("BBC America" is actually an offshoot of the Discovery Channel,
but perhaps the Beeb supplies them with only a few episodes of these
series.)
Perce
T.H. Entity
wrought:
>Sudaca is usually spelled "sudaka"...
"Usually" presumably referring only to when it's being spelled by
teenagers with a pathological aversion to using the letters "c" and
"q" in their text messages.
sudaca site:.es 10,400
sudaka site:.es 262
--
THE
John Dean
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
> <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
>>> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled
>>> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
>>> nothing particularly insulting about it?
>>>
>>> Thanks a million, Gabriele
>>
>> "my ass" = me
>> "your ass" = you
>> "his / her ass" = him / her
>> etc etc
>>
>> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>
> If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
I believe "booty" to be gender-specific where "ass" isn't.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Peter Moylan
> Seems likely. I can even imagine a Brit saying "Get your fat arse in here."
> But not "I'm going to sue your arse for everything you've got."
And even less "I'm going to sue your arse for everything it has."
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
reliably receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.
The optusnet address still has about 3 months of life left.
Peter Moylan
> "batdorf" <b...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>> Nordakas are subdivided into Kanakas (Canadians)
>
> Have the Hawaiians been told about this?
In AusE, Polynesians are now called Kanaks, for no good reason that I
can determine. (It matches the French word "Canaque", but that hardly
seems to qualify as a good reason.)
When I was at school they were still called Kanakas, which caused much
giggling in the classroom, because to us the word sounded like "knackers"
(testicles).
CDB
"Mounseer Froggie" was what they called the enemy in tales of
18th-century naval warfare that I read as a child. I suppose
"Geordie" and "Taffy" are pejorative diminutives, and some hold that
"Yankee" is from "Janke". I have heard, somewhere, that we are (or
maybe that just men are) wired to look up to the tall, so to speak; so
I suppose there's some sense in the practice. It would seem to put a
limit on the level of hatred achievable, though, since it emphasizes
the insignificance of the foreigner over his other repellent
qualities.
In a book I came across years ago, lurking through library stacks
avoiding useful work (all I can remember of the title is that it
contained the word "Ethnophaulisms" -- perhaps it was one that Google
turns up, called _A Dictionary of International Slurs
(Ethnophaulisms)_, by Abraham A. Roback), I recall reading that there
is a Latvian expression "to do a Lithuanian", meaning to blow one's
nose into one's hand. I don't know if it's true, but hearing it would
probably annoy the Lituakas more than being told they were little.
Pat Durkin
"Father Ignatius" <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote in message
news:e449gm$50m$2...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> In news:4ckinpF...@individual.net,
> batdorf <b...@nospam.com> typed:
>
>> (A list of some of the common ones here.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
>
>
> Now that is a cool page.
>
> I note the entry:
>
> 'Boer , referring to Afrikaners, meaning "farmer"; originally in
> universally accepted usage, the term is now obsolete and used
> pejoratively.'
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#South_Africans
> is
>
> It does not seem to me to be obsolete: I hear it used quite orphan --
> sometimes pejoratively, sometimes satirically and sometimes
> pridefully, as in 'A boer maak 'n plan'. I saw some '100% BOER'
> T-shirts at Riebeek-Wes yust the other day.
>
> 'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners'
> is new to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk
> etymology.
>
Do you think it might come from "Dutch" in some way? I assume it is
pejoritive.
Dutchpate, or some other word transliterating the initials in the
syllables, as in a spoonerism, and referring to either an accent or a
fixed way of thinking. (I know it's not a sentence.)
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
>> <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
>>>> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled
>>>> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
>>>> nothing particularly insulting about it?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a million, Gabriele
>>>
>>> "my ass" = me
>>> "your ass" = you
>>> "his / her ass" = him / her
>>> etc etc
>>>
>>> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>>
>> If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
>
>I believe "booty" to be gender-specific where "ass" isn't.
What about the transgendered?
Now you see it, now you don't?
Steve Hayes
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>In news:4ckinpF...@individual.net,
>batdorf <b...@nospam.com> typed:
>
>> (A list of some of the common ones here.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
>
>
>Now that is a cool page.
>
>I note the entry:
>
>'Boer , referring to Afrikaners, meaning "farmer"; originally in universally
>accepted usage, the term is now obsolete and used pejoratively.'
Not to mention the Boeremag (Boer force) members of which are on trial for
treason and some are on the lam.
But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South Africans,
and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks, Krauts etc.
Of course such a term would have to be given by outsiders.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#South_Africans
>is
>
>It does not seem to me to be obsolete: I hear it used quite orphan --
>sometimes pejoratively, sometimes satirically and sometimes pridefully, as
>in 'A boer maak 'n plan'. I saw some '100% BOER' T-shirts at Riebeek-Wes
>yust the other day.
>
>'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners' is new
>to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk etymology.
New to me, too. I suspect it is an error.
But in this book
Heyns, Michiel. 2002. The children's day. Johannesburg:
Jonathan Ball. Dewey: 823.914
it was used by kids at a posh academic high school to refer to refer to those
who attended a technical high school. Nothing to do with Afrikaans or English
speaking, but used by those who were preparing for careers as doctors, lawyers
and stockbrokers to refer to those preparing for careers as greasemonkeys.
Perhaps someone read the book and misunderstood.
Steve Hayes
>
>"Father Ignatius" <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote in message
>
>> 'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners'
>> is new to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk
>> etymology.
>>
>
>Do you think it might come from "Dutch" in some way? I assume it is
>pejoritive.
> Dutchpate, or some other word transliterating the initials in the
>syllables, as in a spoonerism, and referring to either an accent or a
>fixed way of thinking. (I know it's not a sentence.)
No, it's meant quite literally.
It refers to those who go to school to learn how to dismantle and reassemble
clutch plates.
I went to a school that didn't teach such things, but at an age when I would
have loved to have learned them. So I made a point of learning all the
Afrikaans terms for the parts of cars. All in vain, because when I left school
and worked with people who spoke Afrikaans, they called a "koppelaar" a
"clutch", and "ewenaar" a "diff", a "vergasser" a "carb", and a "ratkas" a
"gearbox" (AmE="transmission"). It was English-speaking South Africans who
liked to refer to a gearbox as a "rat case", and motor scooters as "roar
ponies".
Tony Cooper
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South Africans,
>and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks, Krauts etc.
>
We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
"Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
context, but not in the word.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Pat Durkin
"Pat Durkin" <dur...@sbc.com> wrote in message
news:iSm9g.70330$_S7....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Father Ignatius" <FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote in
> message news:e449gm$50m$2...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>> In news:4ckinpF...@individual.net,
>> batdorf <b...@nospam.com> typed:
>>
>>> (A list of some of the common ones here.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#Spaniards)
>>
>>
>> Now that is a cool page.
>>
>> I note the entry:
>>
>> 'Boer , referring to Afrikaners, meaning "farmer"; originally in
>> universally accepted usage, the term is now obsolete and used
>> pejoratively.'
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_terms_per_nationality#South_Africans
>> is
>>
>> It does not seem to me to be obsolete: I hear it used quite orphan --
>> sometimes pejoratively, sometimes satirically and sometimes
>> pridefully, as in 'A boer maak 'n plan'. I saw some '100% BOER'
>> T-shirts at Riebeek-Wes yust the other day.
>>
>> 'Clutchplate, used by English South Africans to refer to Afrikaners'
>> is new to me. I'd be interested in hearing an imaginative folk
>> etymology.
>>
>
> Do you think it might come from "Dutch" in some way? I assume it is
> pejoritive.
Yuck! Can't figure out how that got past me!>
>
Salvatore Volatile
Tony Cooper wrote:
> We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
> term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>
> Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
> "Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
> context, but not in the word.
How about "Septic"?
--
Salvatore Volatile
Father Ignatius
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> typed:
> I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative term.
> Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult.
<sigh>
--
Nat
"If you have to explain satire to someone, you might as well give up."
--Barry Humphries, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Edna
Father Ignatius
Salvatore Volatile <m...@privacy.net> typed:
I think you may mean "Seppo".
But never mind that. Mr. Cooper is wrong: "Yank" is usually used
pejoratively. I don't anticipate, however, that this will cramp his style
not whatsoever.
Tony Cooper
I think to be an insult it has to be understood. Few Americans would
understand this. It was used quite a bit in soc.culture.irish, but
prior to reading that group I'd never seen it used.
Tony Cooper
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>In news:e453op$rq0$2...@chessie.cirr.com,
>Salvatore Volatile <m...@privacy.net> typed:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
>>> term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>>>
>>> Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
>>> "Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
>>> context, but not in the word.
>>
>> How about "Septic"?
>
>I think you may mean "Seppo".
>
>But never mind that. Mr. Cooper is wrong: "Yank" is usually used
>pejoratively. I don't anticipate, however, that this will cramp his style
>not whatsoever.
I'm sure you're right from a South African perspective. I seldom view
things from a South African perspective. I appreciate the tip,
however, and will bristle appropriately if called a Yank by a South
African.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> In a book I came across years ago, lurking through library stacks
> avoiding useful work (all I can remember of the title is that it
> contained the word "Ethnophaulisms" -- perhaps it was one that Google
> turns up, called _A Dictionary of International Slurs
> (Ethnophaulisms)_, by Abraham A. Roback), I recall reading that there
> is a Latvian expression "to do a Lithuanian", meaning to blow one's
> nose into one's hand. I don't know if it's true, but hearing it would
> probably annoy the Lituakas more than being told they were little.
That Latvian expression is not in the above-mentioned dictionary, which
I reprinted in 1979. It's out of print now, but if you want a copy of
that $15 book, you'll have to pay up to $129 to the greedy Abebooks- and
Amazon-affiliated used-book vultures.
Roback coined the term "ethnophaulism" in 1944. (Watch for Evan, guys.)
~~~ Rey ~~~
Editor & Publisher
Maledicta Press
Pat Durkin
"Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
news:oJydnfOLgrCg7PjZ...@giganews.com...
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
>> <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
>>>> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which
>>>> puzzled
>>>> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
>>>> nothing particularly insulting about it?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a million, Gabriele
>>>
>>> "my ass" = me
>>> "your ass" = you
>>> "his / her ass" = him / her
>>> etc etc
>>>
>>> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>>
>> If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
>
> "Get your young hocks over here and sit down; we're gettin' ready to
> grease (eat)".
>
How could you tell they weren't saying "cocks"?
Skitt
As AUE's Token Latvian, I will add that I am not familiar with the
expression CDB mentioned. I have to add, though, that I have not kept up
with expressions as they are used in Latvia ever since leaving the country
in 1944.
As for what Latvians call Lithuanians -- well, the proper term is
"lietuvietis", and the pejorative term is "leitis" (nationalities are not
capitalized in Latvian). Being likened to a Lithuanian (using the latter
term) is quite a put-down.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
Salvatore Volatile
>
> "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
> news:oJydnfOLgrCg7PjZ...@giganews.com...
>> "Get your young hocks over here and sit down; we're gettin' ready to
>> grease (eat)".
>>
> How could you tell they weren't saying "cocks"?
And if this was California surfer culture, how could you tell they weren't
saying "hawks"?
--
Salvatore Volatile
Jeffrey Turner
> John Dean wrote:
>
>> Seems likely. I can even imagine a Brit saying "Get your fat arse in
>> here." But not "I'm going to sue your arse for everything you've got."
>
>
> And even less "I'm going to sue your arse for everything it has."
That would be "it's got."
--Jeff
--
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation. War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman
Pat Durkin
"Salvatore Volatile" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:e45afj$sa4$2...@chessie.cirr.com...
I wouldn't argue with "calks" or "caulks" or even "awks". I simply
don't hear the "h" when I say the sentence. It all disappears in the
"g-converted-to-k-by-following-h". (I am CINC, of course, and allow for
the other vowel sound as a regionalism.)
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South Africans,
> and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks, Krauts etc.
>
Africans, long enough to cause enough offence to have such a term.
Saffers is the best term that I've heard and it isn't offensive.
In the days of apartheid, if you were white, 'South African' or, as it
was rendered 'Suf Ifrican' was sufficiently insulting.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
> term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>
itself is neutral.
Peter H.M. Brooks
If I suffered from the sad condition of actually being a 'yank', I think
that, to do service for my fate (after all, we don't have a choice of
where we're born) and to distance myself from the tank itself, which is
Yankland, I'd call myself a 'septic' with pride.
batdorf
"T.H. Entity" <ggu...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:qhnb629algjqcg06a...@4ax.com...
>>Sudaca is usually spelled "sudaka"...
>
> "Usually" presumably referring only to when it's being spelled by
> teenagers with a pathological aversion to using the letters "c" and
> "q" in their text messages.
>
> sudaca site:.es 10,400
> sudaka site:.es 262
Do leave off, T.H...;-)
Check a few Spanish newsgroups and see the way the humour works...
And then have the beer I suggested earlier...
Cheers.
batdorf
"CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> escribió en el mensaje
news:aVf9g.18007$Xl.3...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> All I was wondering was whether you could recall the insult offered
> Manolo (gracias, Sr. Dean)
I have no wish to cast nasturtiums upon Mr. Dean's understanding of the
Beeb's website, but I can assure you, having watched one of the Spanish
episodes, that he WAS an Italian called Paolo in the version in Spanish
and, it appears, a Mexican in the Catalan version. (Confusing the two
under the present political climate is not recommended...Catalan and
Spanish, that is!)
"In my catalan language version Manuel is a mexican emigrant from
Jalisco and sing mexican songs, and in the spanish version he is an
italian from Naples. Really if he would be from Barcelona, as the sitcom
situate his origin, he would speak catalan abroad. "
(Amazon review)
La serie es entretenidísima y divertidísima, y recomiendo verla en
versión original, ya que en la versión traducida al español, el camarero
(Manuel) que es de Barcelona, pasa a llamarse Paolo y es de Nápoles... y
... la verdad no tiene tanta gracia.
(The series is very entertaining and very funny, and I recommend seeing
the original version, as in the version translated into Spanish, the
waiter Manuel) has his name changed to Paolo and comes from
Naples...and, to tell the truth, is no nearly so amusing)
http://tonosdegris.blogspot.com/2005/10/fawlty-towers.html
> in the Spanish version of FT; I guess that was "Italianino". Not
> deeply wounding, as you say. How about "Espaguetaka"?
I asked some Spanish friends and the term they commonly use use is
"espagueti"...
Robert Bannister
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
>><john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled
>>>>me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
>>>>nothing particularly insulting about it?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks a million, Gabriele
>>>
>>>"my ass" = me
>>>"your ass" = you
>>>"his / her ass" = him / her
>>>etc etc
>>>
>>>All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>>
>>If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
>
>
> I believe "booty" to be gender-specific where "ass" isn't.
Now you've gone and wook up Sara.
--
Rob Bannister
Stephen Calder
What about jaapies? Neutral, rather than offensive, I guess.
I notice that this word referring to South Sfricans has not made it into
the major dictionaries, despite its appearance in Partridge's volume on
slang.
It's well known enough in Australia to have appeared in the Sydney
Morning Herald. I have a citation from August 1992.
--
Stephen
Lennox Head, Australia
Steve Hayes
wrote:
Would they apply it, for example, to Makhaya Ntini?
Within South Africa "plaasjapie" used to be applied by Woozers to rural
Afrikaners, but I haven't heard it much recently.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Sat, 13 May 2006 18:04:45 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South Africans,
>>and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks, Krauts etc.
>>
>
>We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
>term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
Well, maybe not. Pom isn't always offensive either.
For South Africans, there's always "wog", which applies to all, but is not
specific enough, since it also applies to Kenyans, Indians and New Zealanders.
And it too, like "Yank" is not always offensive.
What about "Yanqui"?
>Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
>"Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
>context, but not in the word.
--
Frank ess
You may be right; I wasn't well enough acquainted with them to know if
the singular addressees had multiple faucets hidden in their baggies.
Naw, my ears could hear, then, and I _was_ standing close. Hocks --
hams -- grease, it all added up.
--
Frank ess
Stephen Calder
>>>
>>
>>What about jaapies? Neutral, rather than offensive, I guess.
>>
>>I notice that this word referring to South Sfricans has not made it into
>>the major dictionaries, despite its appearance in Partridge's volume on
>>slang.
>>
>>It's well known enough in Australia to have appeared in the Sydney
>>Morning Herald. I have a citation from August 1992.
>
>
> Would they apply it, for example, to Makhaya Ntini?
I've only heard it applied to white South Africans.
T.H. Entity
wrought:
>
>"T.H. Entity" <ggu...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
>news:qhnb629algjqcg06a...@4ax.com...
>
>>>Sudaca is usually spelled "sudaka"...
>>
>> "Usually" presumably referring only to when it's being spelled by
>> teenagers with a pathological aversion to using the letters "c" and
>> "q" in their text messages.
>>
>> sudaca site:.es 10,400
>> sudaka site:.es 262
>
>Do leave off, T.H...;-)
>Check a few Spanish newsgroups and see the way the humour works...
I see you use smileys. You didn't use one after that statement, so I
missed the ribtickler.
And if you use Spanish newsgroups as your guide for spelling trends,
*apaga y vámonos*!
--
THE
Peter H.M. Brooks
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>
>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South
>>> Africans,
>>> and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks,
>>> Krauts etc.
>>>
>> I don't think that there is one. We haven't been around, as South
>> Africans, long enough to cause enough offence to have such a term.
>>
>> Saffers is the best term that I've heard and it isn't offensive.
>>
>> In the days of apartheid, if you were white, 'South African' or, as it
>> was rendered 'Suf Ifrican' was sufficiently insulting.
>>
>
> What about jaapies? Neutral, rather than offensive, I guess.
>
think that it is quite a charming one, actually.
Skokkie
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:e45e06$s1j$2...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
Except when it is used to describe what they do on the toilet!
Skokkie
The4 term Saffer was originated by the Australians as a form of mimicry of
the accent as re enunciated through their own vocal traditions. It is
offensive as the similarity to the K word was intentional and intended as a
wind up. We are all aware of a recent cricket match where the sheep shearers
were shouting it at the whiteys and got a few ethnic Africans hot under the
collar.
Skokkie
"Stephen Calder" <calder...@in.com.au> wrote in message
news:4466b90d$0$507$61c6...@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
And Slopies? I remember that in the Rhodesian Army the Afrikaners were
referred to as Inclined Planes, lean to's, Shed head and many other terms
that inferred a slope as it was a disciplinary offence to refer to a member
of the South African Police (Who were supposedly assisting the Rhod Army) as
a Slopie
Wayne Brown
>
> I suppose "Geordie" and "Taffy" are pejorative
> diminutives, and some hold that "Yankee" is from
>"Janke".
"Yank" has always seemed to me to be a terribly wimpish
pejorative for Americans in view of the fact that the word has
its origin in the United States itself, from the word "Yankee,"
so reminiscent of the American Civil War in which Northerners
were called Yankees and Southerners Rebels. One might have
expected the British to demonstrate some imagination and come up
with a really insulting epithet for Americans.
> I recall reading that there is a Latvian expression "to do a
> Lithuanian", meaning to blow one's nose into one's hand.
> I don't know if it's true, but hearing it would probably annoy
> the Lituakas more than being
> told they were little.
There're many expressions all over the world along those lines.
Some of the English ones can be traced to the historical enmity
between England and France. I like English expressions
associating the French with sex, like French kiss and French
letter. The French seem to have gotten around quite a bit; in
Russia people still remember an old-fashioned name for
gonorrhea, "a French cold."
Regards, ----- WB.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Peter H.M. Brooks
batdorf
> I see you use smileys.
I quite like them, don't you?
Succinct, economical and widely understood...
>You didn't use one after that statement,
All things in moderation!
> And if you use Spanish newsgroups as your guide for spelling trends,
> *apaga y vámonos*!
I did say "the Internet" in my earlier message, but newsgroups are an
essential part of that. And whether you like or not, Ent, the Internet
will have a big influence on the development of language.
As far as your little Spanish cliché goes...:-(
And if you were referring to the film, well, are you making some
anti-globalisation plea, Ent?
Or just a dodgy comparison between ecological and linguistic
destruction?
Every time you switch on your ordenador or take a shower or a bath you
are contributing, sunshine, like it or not.
Gabriele Azzaro
thread are a goldmine to me, anyway, thank you all!), here are a few more
queries
and one addendum:
Query 1 - What does "Goombah" mean below?
I don't care how many Dago, Guinea, wop Greaseball Goombahs come out of the
woodwork! HAGEN I'm Germ (The Godfather)
Query 2 - What does "hood" mean below?
... and if you ever threaten me again, you little two-bit guinea hood, I'll
introduce you to my friend R.I.C.O., dig? (Green River)
MCCLUSKEY: I thought I got all you guinea hoods locked up. Who the hell are
you and what are you doing her (The Godfather)
Query 3 - Any idea about "spearchucker" & "pickaninny"?
DELACROIX: Leave me alone. Get away from me. You spearchucker. You black
sambo. You nigger pickaninny. Fat Mammie. (Bamboozled)
Query 4 - Would say the proper nouns below are used as insults? Do you see
them as attributive, like adjectives for "motherfucker"?
Dago, wop, garlic-breath, guinea, pizza-slinging, spaghetti-bending, Vic
Damone, Perry Como, Luciano Pavarotti, Sole Mio, nonsinging motherfucker.
(Do The Right Thing)
========================================
Addendum to the thread - Someone noticed how "guinea" could also be
positive. Here are a couple of examples that maybe reflect that usage, am I
mistaken?
Then Johnny comes along with that olive oil voice and guinea charm and she
runs off. She threw it all away to make me look ridiculous (The Godfather)
... [the] door opens and Mickey Cohen bodyguard Johnny Stompanato slides in.
Guinea handsome, Johnny wears his curls in a tight pompadour. (LA
Confidential)
Gabriele
Pat Durkin
"Gabriele Azzaro" <gaz...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:iK%9g.11025$b5.1...@twister2.libero.it...
I suppose one might consider those usages positive. However, consider
the "mafiosi" being described. The usage capitalizes on and reinforces
a stereotype of Italian hoods and seems to have set a standard for pimp
fashions. Don't both of the images indicate an "oily charm" as the
Rumanian in My Fair Lady?
Maybe I was just jealous.
The villains in many old movies (melodramas) set an image for me that
oily-haired guys with pencil-thin mustaches were lady-killers, fops and
villains, regardless of their popularity among women. Even when playing
heroes, movie stars like Robert Taylor, Clark Gable, Zachary Scott, and
Charles Boyer all played roles like that in the late '30s and into the
'50s. Oh, yes. Vincent Price and William Powell. They often did the
sharp-dressed sophisticate thing.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>
>"Gabriele Azzaro" <gaz...@libero.it> wrote in message
>news:iK%9g.11025$b5.1...@twister2.libero.it...
>> Since insults seem to be such a linguistic charmer (all the posts in
>> this
>> thread are a goldmine to me, anyway, thank you all!), here are a few
>> more queries
>> and one addendum:
>>
>> Query 1 - What does "Goombah" mean below?
>> I don't care how many Dago, Guinea, wop Greaseball Goombahs come out
>> of the
>> woodwork! HAGEN I'm Germ (The Godfather)
>>
>> Query 2 - What does "hood" mean below?
>> ... and if you ever threaten me again, you little two-bit guinea hood,
>> I'll introduce you to my friend R.I.C.O., dig? (Green River)
>>
>> MCCLUSKEY: I thought I got all you guinea hoods locked up. Who the
>> hell are you and what are you doing her (The Godfather)
>>
>> Query 3 - Any idea about "spearchucker" & "pickaninny"?
>> DELACROIX: Leave me alone. Get away from me. You spearchucker. You
>> black
>> sambo. You nigger pickaninny. Fat Mammie. (Bamboozled)
>>
I don't think you're drawing the net tightly enough. I think an
insulting word or term should have the possibility, and the
probability, of being offensive in all uses.
"Goombah" is used by Italian-Americans to mean a fellow
Italian-American with which they have some sort of friendly
relationship. Or, to mean a "connected" person. (Which is not always
an insult) In first usage, there can be an unsounded "dumb" before
"goombah", but in a kidding way.
"Hood" is just another word for "hoodlum", and not an insult if it's
used as a simple description of the nature of the person. I don't see
how you can insult a hoodlum by calling him a hoodlum.
"Spearchucker", though, is clearly an insulting racial slur and
creates the image of an uncivilized African native. Except when it's
Spearchucker Jones in M*A*S*H who threw the javelin as one of his
athletic endeavors. (Though brought into the unit as football player)
"Pickaninny" is also always an insult, and a particularly unkind one
since it refers to a child. Aue can have, or probably has had, a
field day arguing about the origin of this term. Conflicting claims
of origin. "Sambo" is an unfortunate case of a name used to describe
an Indian (not native American-type) in a child's book and made into a
racial slur because of the word "black" before it and because of the
book's cover illustration.
If you're collecting insults, I suggest you collect words that are
clearly insulting and not just words that may be unacceptable to some
in certain cases.
>> ========================================
>>
>> Addendum to the thread - Someone noticed how "guinea" could also be
>> positive. Here are a couple of examples that maybe reflect that usage,
>> am I mistaken?
>> Then Johnny comes along with that olive oil voice and guinea charm and
>> she runs off. She threw it all away to make me look ridiculous (The
>> Godfather)
>>
>> ... [the] door opens and Mickey Cohen bodyguard Johnny Stompanato
>> slides in. Guinea handsome, Johnny wears his curls in a tight
>> pompadour. (LA Confidential)
>
>I suppose one might consider those usages positive. However, consider
>the "mafiosi" being described. The usage capitalizes on and reinforces
>a stereotype of Italian hoods and seems to have set a standard for pimp
>fashions. Don't both of the images indicate an "oily charm" as the
>Rumanian in My Fair Lady?
>
>Maybe I was just jealous.
>The villains in many old movies (melodramas) set an image for me that
>oily-haired guys with pencil-thin mustaches were lady-killers, fops and
>villains, regardless of their popularity among women. Even when playing
>heroes, movie stars like Robert Taylor, Clark Gable, Zachary Scott, and
>Charles Boyer all played roles like that in the late '30s and into the
>'50s. Oh, yes. Vincent Price and William Powell. They often did the
>sharp-dressed sophisticate thing.
>
>
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Salvatore Volatile
> Since insults seem to be such a linguistic charmer (all the posts in this
> thread are a goldmine to me, anyway, thank you all!), here are a few more
> queries
> and one addendum:
>
> Query 1 - What does "Goombah" mean below?
> I don't care how many Dago, Guinea, wop Greaseball Goombahs come out of the
> woodwork! HAGEN I'm Germ (The Godfather)
It's from a New York-region/Neapolitan-dialectal-derived pronunciation of
_compare_, "godfather". It's sometimes used in these latter days as a
general term for "someone who seems to be associated with the Mafia" or
even simply an offensive term for a relatively ethnic Italian-American. I
think films like _The Godfather_ and its imitators popularized or led
to those latter usages.
> Query 2 - What does "hood" mean below?
> ... and if you ever threaten me again, you little two-bit guinea hood, I'll
> introduce you to my friend R.I.C.O., dig? (Green River)
That ought to be in your dictionary. It refers to a tough working-class
sort of character, particularly one associated with the 1950s. Fonzie on
_Happy Days_ sort of took the hood stereotype and turned it around.
> Addendum to the thread - Someone noticed how "guinea" could also be
> positive. Here are a couple of examples that maybe reflect that usage, am I
> mistaken?
> Then Johnny comes along with that olive oil voice and guinea charm and she
> runs off. She threw it all away to make me look ridiculous (The Godfather)
>
> ... [the] door opens and Mickey Cohen bodyguard Johnny Stompanato slides in.
> Guinea handsome, Johnny wears his curls in a tight pompadour. (LA
> Confidential)
Not exactly what I meant, but those do show that "guinea" is less
offensive than other such terms.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Salvatore Volatile
> "Goombah" is used by Italian-Americans
Some.
> to mean a fellow
> Italian-American with which they have some sort of friendly
> relationship.
False. It means 'godfather'.
> Or, to mean a "connected" person.
False, in addition to libelous.
--
Salvatore Volatile
T.H. Entity
<m...@privacy.net> wrought:
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>> "Goombah" is used by Italian-Americans
>
>Some.
>
>> to mean a fellow
>> Italian-American with which they have some sort of friendly
>> relationship.
>
>False. It means 'godfather'.
Yeppers. Although that could be misleading. It really means, as the
etymology suggests, "fellow father" -- your *compare* is the godfather
of your kids, not your own godfather. In other words, he's not blood
family, but he's as close as a brother.
>> Or, to mean a "connected" person.
>
>False, in addition to libelous.
Right (as in you're right; it's false) -- it's basically just the
equivalent of "buddy" -- or, perhaps even better, "bro" -- in
SicilE.
*Compae* (from *compadre*) is used identically in Andalusia.
--
THE
Salvatore Volatile
It isn't SicilE; it's NapolitE, like most other New York-region
Italian-Americanisms. I think the Sicilians would say _cumpari_ (there's
a well-known folk song which I think is specifically Sicilian or Calabrian
that goes "Eh cumpari, ci vuo' sunari/Chi ci sona u friscalettu"
or something like that, which has something to do with a godfather
playing the bagpipes) (Yes, Coop, non-Celtic people had bagpipes too, and
in fact the Celts probably appropriated them.)
--
Salvatore Volatile
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@fraglineone.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
> >> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled
> >> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
> >> nothing particularly insulting about it?
> >>
> >> Thanks a million, Gabriele
> >
> >"my ass" = me
> >"your ass" = you
> >"his / her ass" = him / her
> >etc etc
> >
> >All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
>
> If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
That's /an/ African American word for the hind end. Much more
acceptable in polite company than "ass".
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>> "Goombah" is used by Italian-Americans
>
>Some.
>
>> to mean a fellow
>> Italian-American with which they have some sort of friendly
>> relationship.
>
>False. It means 'godfather'.
Now wait a minute. Whatever the word is *supposed* mean is irrelevant
when it is commonly used another way. "Goombah" is only (probably)
*from* an Italian word that can mean - among other things - godfather.
The slang usage can mean "a close friend or associate". It would be
perfectly ordinary for some Italian-American guy to say "He's my
goombah" without any "godfather" meaning. It would just mean "He's my
buddy" or "He broke me in on the job". ("Job", here, to mean legal
employment)
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19970404
http://www.bartleby.com/61/64/G0196400.html
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goombah
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861614684/goombah.html
>> Or, to mean a "connected" person.
>
>False, in addition to libelous.
Nonsense. The phrase "She's dating some goombah from Jersey" means
she's dating some Italian-American guy who earns his income by some
illegal means like promising store owners that they windows won't be
broken if they make a weekly contribution. It may or may not be a
false statement, and it may or may not be libelous. It could be
dangerous, though.
I think the usual difference is meaning - between "friend or
associate" and "connected" - is in the surrounding words. "My
goombah" and "Hey, Yo, goombah!" are indications of a friendly or
associate relationship. "He's a goombah from..." and "Some
goombah...", and "There were a bunch of goombahs sitting outside..."
are indications that the person or persons being referred to is or are
somehow connected to illegal activities.
I can't see "goombah" has having an ordinary use as "godfather". All
those guys sitting in the social club are goombahs, but they aren't
godfathers.
Salvatore Volatile
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:24:57 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
><m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> "Goombah" is used by Italian-Americans
Note that you said "used by Italian-Americans", not "used by Hoosiers in
Orlando" or "Irish-Americans from the Midwest", etc.
>>
>>Some.
>>
>>> to mean a fellow
>>> Italian-American with which they have some sort of friendly
>>> relationship.
>>
>>False. It means 'godfather'.
>
> Now wait a minute. Whatever the word is *supposed* mean is irrelevant
> when it is commonly used another way. "Goombah" is only (probably)
> *from* an Italian word that can mean - among other things - godfather.
>
> The slang usage can mean "a close friend or associate".
False.
> It would be
> perfectly ordinary for some Italian-American guy to say "He's my
> goombah" without any "godfather" meaning.
Possibly, if you mean literal godfather (of the baptismal sort), much as,
in a different way, the British "gaffer" (if that's still used) needn't
refer to a baptismal godfather.
> It would just mean "He's my
> buddy" or "He broke me in on the job".
Completely false.
>>> Or, to mean a "connected" person.
>>
>>False, in addition to libelous.
>
> Nonsense. The phrase "She's dating some goombah from Jersey" means
> she's dating some Italian-American guy who earns his income by some
> illegal means like promising store owners that they windows won't be
> broken if they make a weekly contribution. It may or may not be a
> false statement, and it may or may not be libelous.
I don't doubt that some people use it this way, but remember, you asserted
that *Italian-Americans* use it this way. False, other than perhaps in
some ironic way that references usage by non-Italian-Americans.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Skokkie
It's the Loud, imperialistic and self righteous manner that they assume when
they yank the chain in other peoples toilets
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>>> Or, to mean a "connected" person.
>>
>>False, in addition to libelous.
>
>Right (as in you're right; it's false) -- it's basically just the
>equivalent of "buddy" -- or, perhaps even better, "bro" -- in
>SicilE.
It can be "buddy", or it can be "a connected person". When a
restaurant owner says "Some goombahs came in to tell me that I'm now
going to be using their linen service.", he is not talking about his
buddies or anyone that could ever be his buddy.
However, a waiter in the restaurant could refer to a fellow worker as
his goombah with the "buddy" meaning. Especially if the other person
taught him the ropes.
I gave two definitions, and started the second with "Or". Either can
be true.
"Connected", in this case, means "affiliated with, or a member of,
some group involved in organized crime". Whether or not that group is
part of the Mafia - or even if there really is a Mafia in existence -
is unknown or debatable. Whatever the association, it means that if
you have a problem with a connected person, you also have a problem
with the group he's connected with.
Gabriele Azzaro
stress is ultimate, on the last syllable? goomBAH?
Gabriele
"Salvatore Volatile" <m...@privacy.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:e4a89k$j7p$2...@chessie.cirr.com...
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Steve Hayes wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:54 +0100, "John Dean"
> > <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Gabriele Azzaro wrote:
> >>> Thanks, I had actually got there, it was the "ass" bit which puzzled
> >>> me. So I guess "my tight little guinea ass" just means "myself",
> >>> nothing particularly insulting about it?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a million, Gabriele
> >>
> >> "my ass" = me
> >> "your ass" = you
> >> "his / her ass" = him / her
> >> etc etc
> >>
> >> All US usage and predominantly Afro American.
> >
> > If that's "ass" as in bum, isn't the Afro-American word "booty"?
>
Corroborated by the Urban Dictionary (with at least one exception).
When did that start? In my youth it definitely wasn't gender-specific.
"Kick some booty" is still around, though with only 25,400 compared to
234,000 for "kick some butt".
--
Jerry Friedman
Salvatore Volatile
> I'd have never guessed the compare affiliation from the spelling. So I guess
> stress is ultimate, on the last syllable? goomBAH?
It should be, but on TV and movies you usually hear "GOOMbah"; that's
probably how Coop would say it, anyway. I hadn't thought about this, but
that pronunciation might be an indicator of inauthenticity.
BTW, please don't top-post.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Al in Dallas
<FatherI...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
>In news:e453op$rq0$2...@chessie.cirr.com,
>Salvatore Volatile <m...@privacy.net> typed:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
>>> term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>>>
>>> Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
>>> "Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
>>> context, but not in the word.
>>
>> How about "Septic"?
>
>I think you may mean "Seppo".
>
>But never mind that. Mr. Cooper is wrong: "Yank" is usually used
>pejoratively. I don't anticipate, however, that this will cramp his style
>not whatsoever.
He has proved to be less willing to learning new facts about others'
use of English than Areff.
--
Al in St. Lou
Al in Dallas
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>Salvatore Volatile wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
>>> term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>>>
>>> Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
>>> "Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
>>> context, but not in the word.
>>
>> How about "Septic"?
>>
>That's less polite than "Yank".
>
>If I suffered from the sad condition of actually being a 'yank', I think
>that, to do service for my fate (after all, we don't have a choice of
>where we're born) and to distance myself from the tank itself, which is
>Yankland, I'd call myself a 'septic' with pride.
I had started to include "A Seppo" in my sig in e-mail messages to my
Ozzie colleagues, but they disclaimed any knowledge of the rhyming
slang origin. So, I gave it up.
Al in Dallas
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 May 2006 16:31:38 GMT, Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 May 2006 18:04:45 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>But I can't think of a single offensive term that covers all South Africans,
>>>and nothing but South Africans. Nothing like Poms, Yanks, Micks, Krauts etc.
>>>
>>
>>We've done this before, but I disagree that "Yank" is a pejorative
>>term. I don't think it's even mildly offensive.
>
>Well, maybe not. Pom isn't always offensive either.
>
>For South Africans, there's always "wog", which applies to all, but is not
>specific enough, since it also applies to Kenyans, Indians and New Zealanders.
>And it too, like "Yank" is not always offensive.
>
>What about "Yanqui"?
>
>
>
>>Like any term, it can be delivered as an insult. So can "American",
>>"Southerner", and "New Yorker". The insult is in the tone and
>>context, but not in the word.
Isn't there some infamous line that goes "Wogs begin at Calais"? I
imagine only white racists living in England would actually use such a
term.
Lars Eighner
<iK%9g.11025$b5.1...@twister2.libero.it>,
the lovely and talented Gabriele Azzaro
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Since insults seem to be such a linguistic charmer (all the posts in this
> thread are a goldmine to me, anyway, thank you all!), here are a few more
> queries
> and one addendum:
> Query 1 - What does "Goombah" mean below?
> I don't care how many Dago, Guinea, wop Greaseball Goombahs come out of the
> woodwork! HAGEN I'm Germ (The Godfather)
Associate. Try google.
> Query 2 - What does "hood" mean below?
> ... and if you ever threaten me again, you little two-bit guinea hood, I'll
> introduce you to my friend R.I.C.O., dig? (Green River)
long standing shortening of hoodlum, no particular ethnic reference. Not to
be confused which "hood" shortening of neighborhood.
> MCCLUSKEY: I thought I got all you guinea hoods locked up. Who the hell are
> you and what are you doing her (The Godfather)
> Query 3 - Any idea about "spearchucker" & "pickaninny"?
> DELACROIX: Leave me alone. Get away from me. You spearchucker. You black
> sambo. You nigger pickaninny. Fat Mammie. (Bamboozled)
Spearchucker: disparaging term for person of African descent, "pickaninny"
small black child (offensive in modern use).
> Query 4 - Would say the proper nouns below are used as insults? Do you see
> them as attributive, like adjectives for "motherfucker"?
> Dago, wop, garlic-breath, guinea, pizza-slinging, spaghetti-bending, Vic
> Damone, Perry Como, Luciano Pavarotti, Sole Mio, nonsinging motherfucker.
> (Do The Right Thing)
Impossible to say without better context.
> Addendum to the thread - Someone noticed how "guinea" could also be
> positive.
Almost all such terms can be used in something of a positive sense within
the group to which the term refers, as most insults can be used ironically
among friends.
> Here are a couple of examples that maybe reflect that usage, am I
> mistaken?
> Then Johnny comes along with that olive oil voice and guinea charm and she
> runs off. She threw it all away to make me look ridiculous (The Godfather)
> ... [the] door opens and Mickey Cohen bodyguard Johnny Stompanato slides in.
> Guinea handsome, Johnny wears his curls in a tight pompadour. (LA
> Confidential)
--
Lars Eighner use...@larseighner.com http://www.larseighner.com/
Think like a man of action. Act like a man of thought. --Henri Bergson
Mike Lyle
Al in Dallas wrote:
[...]
> I had started to include "A Seppo" in my sig in e-mail messages to my
> Ozzie colleagues, but they disclaimed any knowledge of the rhyming
> slang origin. So, I gave it up.
>
sense self-protective. I'm embarrassed simply to admit knowing the
expression: it's one of those things of whose existence one is ashamed.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Al in Dallas wrote:
[...]
..and stop at nothing! (I claim the coinage of the second clause when I
was a student; but it's easy enough to suppose I wasn't the first. I'm
sure that back then I was even the first person I'd heard use the
expression "greengrocer's apostrophe", but that's a pretty obvious
idea, too. I'd love to claim "boy racer" as a motoring pejorative, but
that was from a fellow-student...or so I believe.)
--
Mike.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> In our last episode,
> <iK%9g.11025$b5.1...@twister2.libero.it>,
> the lovely and talented Gabriele Azzaro
> broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>> Query 2 - What does "hood" mean below?
>> ... and if you ever threaten me again, you little two-bit guinea
>> hood, I'll introduce you to my friend R.I.C.O., dig? (Green River)
>
> long standing shortening of hoodlum, no particular ethnic reference.
> Not to be confused which "hood" shortening of neighborhood.
Not that anybody seems to know why "hoodlum" is "hoodlum", so perhaps
there is a connection. The OED says
[The name originated in San Francisco about 1870-72, and began to
excite attention elsewhere in the U.S. about 1877, by which time
its origin was lost, and many fictitious stories, concocted to
account for it, were current in the newspapers. See a selection of
these in Manchester (N. H.) _N. & Q._ Sept. 1883.]
There's an article on them, attributing the term to the _Alta
Californian_, in the 8/12/1872 _Brooklyn Daily Eagle_, but it doesn't
explain the name. Interestingly, it specifically says that it's a
step below serious criminals:
He is the friend and counsellor of thieves, swindlers, and
confidence men, and finally adopts the felon's prefession--then he
ceases to be a Hoodlum.
By this characterization, calling a felon a "hood[lum]" is an insult
from his point of view.
>> Query 3 - Any idea about "spearchucker" & "pickaninny"?
>> DELACROIX: Leave me alone. Get away from me. You spearchucker. You
>> black sambo. You nigger pickaninny. Fat Mammie. (Bamboozled)
>
> Spearchucker: disparaging term for person of African descent,
> "pickaninny" small black child (offensive in modern use).
Although interestingly, "pickaninny" got picked up in Tok Pisin as a
race-neutral word meaning "child".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If all else fails, embarrass the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |industry into doing the right
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |thing.
| Dean Thompson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572