Nuclular
jan sand
pronouncing "nuclear", but I believe it continued with, among others,
President Reagan and now I hear in President Bush's speech about
creating an extremely expensive and almost totally useless (according
to the overwhelming opinions of the scientific community) antiimissile
system for, I assume, the benefit of his investor friends in the arms
industries. This mispronunciation of "nuclear" seems to be a
shibboleth for politicians uninformed as to the realities of
technology. Is this true?
Jan Sand
Ray Heindl
<3aef2b3...@news.mindspring.com>:
When I worked in the nuclear medicine department of a large medical
center, it was pronounced "nucular" by most of the employees. So it
doesn't seem to be restricted to nontechnical types. Did Jimmy Carter
say 'nuke-ee-er' when he was a nuclear engineer in the navy, or did he
start to mispronounce it when he became a politician?
--
Ray Heindl
Maria Conlon
jan sand wrote in message
[...]
>........ This mispronunciation of "nuclear" seems to be a
>shibboleth for politicians uninformed as to the realities of
>technology. Is this true?
From m-w online, about "shibboleth":
1 a : a word or saying used by adherents of a party, sect, or belief and
usually regarded by others as empty of real meaning <the old shibboleths
come rolling off their lips -- Joseph Epstein> b : a widely held belief
<today this book publishing shibboleth is a myth -- L. A. Wood> c :
TRUISM, PLATITUDE <some truth in the shibboleth that crime does not
pay -- Lee Rogow>
2 a : a use of language regarded as distinctive of a particular group
<accent was... a shibboleth of social class -- Vivian Ducat> b : a
custom or usage regarded as distinguishing one group from others <for
most of the well-to-do in the town, dinner was a shibboleth, its hour
dividing mankind -- Osbert Sitwell>
I think you are using definition 2a for "shibboleth," but I'm not sure.
In any case, I think the mispronunciation of "nuclear" is not limited to
(or primarily associated with) politicians -- or to/with any particular
occupational group. It's probably more related to education or location.
(I include "location" because of former president Jimmy Carter, who is
from Georgia, and who did not pronounce it quite correctly despite
having some connection with the field of nuclear physics.)
Many people (at least in the USA) seem unable to wrap their tongues
around the word and get it out right. (Something about the 'l' and 'r'?
Or maybe "clear" being two syllables?)
Another similar word that is often mispronounced is "Realtor"
('Re-@l-ter, a trademarked name for a real estate agent in the USA. Not
all real estate agents are Realtors). 'Re-l@-ter is the usual
mispronunciation.
Both of those words are in my AmE dictionary, but then, not everyone has
a dictionary, and not everyone feels the need to look up a word that may
be mispronounced -- especially if the mispronunciation is thought to be
right.
Maria
Night23
talking about regarding nuclear issues is to watch his pronounciation.
If he pronounces nuclear as "nucular" he's usually a clueless moron.
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" wrote:
>
> In article <3aef2b3...@news.mindspring.com>,
> jan...@mindspring.com (jan sand) posted:
> DWI Bush is ignorant about matters not
> involving booze, cocaine and vulgarity.
> As you mention, his job is to return
> favors to his investor gang (who helped
> him steal the presidency).
>
> Jai Maharaj
> http://www.mantra.com/jai
> Om Shanti
Richard Fontana
> In any case, I think the mispronunciation of "nuclear" is not limited to
> (or primarily associated with) politicians -- or to/with any particular
> occupational group. It's probably more related to education or location.
> (I include "location" because of former president Jimmy Carter, who is
> from Georgia, and who did not pronounce it quite correctly despite
> having some connection with the field of nuclear physics.)
Well, in his case it might have been some weird accent feature. Remember,
he said "nukeyah".
> Many people (at least in the USA) seem unable to wrap their tongues
> around the word and get it out right. (Something about the 'l' and 'r'?
> Or maybe "clear" being two syllables?)
I don't say "nuclear" like "new clear", but I think some people do. I say
/'nuk li R/ and /nu klir/ respectively.
> Another similar word that is often mispronounced is "Realtor"
> ('Re-@l-ter, a trademarked name for a real estate agent in the USA. Not
> all real estate agents are Realtors). 'Re-l@-ter is the usual
> mispronunciation.
Another interesting one is "nuptial(s)" and "prenuptial". You almost
always hear this as three-syllable "nuptual" /nVp tSu @l/ in US English.
Richard Fontana
> It started with President Eisenhower who seemingly was incapable of
> pronouncing "nuclear", but I believe it continued with, among others,
> President Reagan
I can't say I remember but I don't think you're right about that. I'm
having trouble imagining Reagan saying "nucular". Should be recordings
that should settle the matter. I don't think the elder Bush said
"nucular" either. Nor Billy J. Clinton.
> and now I hear in President Bush's speech about
> creating an extremely expensive and almost totally useless (according
> to the overwhelming opinions of the scientific community) antiimissile
> system for, I assume, the benefit of his investor friends in the arms
> industries. This mispronunciation of "nuclear" seems to be a
> shibboleth for politicians uninformed as to the realities of
> technology. Is this true?
I don't think so. Jimi Carter was a nuclear engineer and he said
"nukeyah". You'd think he'd be less uninformed than others, though I
don't know if that's really true.
Well, I've noticed that "nucular" is more common in the speech of
Californians. Indeed I do not think of it as a Northeastern-coastal
pronunciation at all, and I suspect there is some sort of regional
division going on. Could it have something to do with the /R/ at the end?
Maria Conlon
Richard Fontana wrote in message ...
>Another interesting one is "nuptial(s)" and "prenuptial". You almost
>always hear this as three-syllable "nuptual" /nVp tSu @l/ in US
>English.
And then there's "financial." I have heard it from quite a few people as
fi-'nan-chu-al.
Speaking of "nuptial(s)," when I was a kid, I misread it as "nupital"
and pronounced it accordingly in my mind. Thank goodness I didn't have
much occasion to say the word out loud.
Maria
jan sand
I hesitate to relate how I massacred "schedule" before I heard how
other people pronounce it.
Jan Sand
abc
Ivan Markose
"Night23" <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote in message
news:3AEF3CBC...@nightynight.com...
James' Nemesis
"abc" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3aef...@news.starhub.net.sg...
> Who the hell are you; Albert Einstein ?!
Sounds like somebody smart enough to know the difference between "nucular"
and "nuclear". Do you axe people questions like this all the time?
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Well, I've noticed that "nucular" is more common in the speech of
> Californians. Indeed I do not think of it as a Northeastern-coastal
> pronunciation at all, and I suspect there is some sort of regional
> division going on. Could it have something to do with the /R/ at
> the end?
One thing that tends to get forgotten is that while "nuclear" is the
most common such word, the same thing happens with the (less common)
related noun. I've recounted before that, due to the pronunciations
of various teachers, I went through a period in my childhood in which
I thought that an atom had a "nucleus" while a cell had a "nuculus".
Until looking it up just now, I hadn't realized that the original
meaning of "nucleus" was "the small brighter and denser portion of a
galaxy or of the head of a comet".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
Albert Einstien
>
> Ivan Markose
No...I am
really I am
Sam Hinton
>I hesitate to relate how I massacred "schedule" before I heard how
>other people pronounce it.
**************************
"SHED-y@l' was said to have been the received pronunciation in Britain.
There's an old story about Lady Astor visiting the US, being invited to lunch
by Dorothy Parker, and declining, saying her "shedule" would not permit it.
Miss Parker answered "Oh skit!"
Getting back to the pronunciation of "nuclear," Walt Kelly once depicted his
Pogo Possum tossing aside a book called "Nuclear Physics," saying "It ain't so
new and it ain't so clear!"
Sam
La Jolla CA USA
Sam Hinton
>I find the easiest way to find out whether a person knows what he's
>talking about regarding nuclear issues is to watch his pronounciation.
>If he pronounces nuclear as "nucular" he's usually a clueless moron.
***************************
On the other hand, I've known scores of people who pronounced "nuclear" quite
correctly but had not the faintest notion of what it meant. Knowledge of a
subject doesn't always go with good speech habits.
I knew a world-famous ichthyologist (now dead) who often had trouble, in
public speeches, with the word "water."
Mark Brader
> ... due to the pronunciations of various teachers, I went through
> a period in my childhood in which I thought that an atom had a
> "nucleus" while a cell had a "nuculus".
In which could be found ribonuculic acid and deoxyribonuculic acid?
> Until looking it up just now, I hadn't realized that the original
> meaning of "nucleus" was "the small brighter and denser portion of a
> galaxy or of the head of a comet".
The OED dates both that meaning and the meaning "the kernel of a nut"
to the same year, 1704. It occurs to me, in view of the widespread
trouble with the word "nucleus", that we're lucky the people who
popularized the term "kernel" in connection with computer operating
systems didn't decide to call the thing a nucleus instead...
--
Mark Brader "Without nuclear weapons we will be nothing
Toronto more than a rich, powerful Canada...."
m...@vex.net -- A Walk in the Woods, by Lee Blessing
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Steve Hayes
I only ever heard "nucular" used in a science fiction movie. I assumed it was
a hypothetical weapon that would be developed in the future (not just in
future), that would be more terrible and devastating than ordinary nuclear
ones.
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Jacqui
> jan sand wrote:
>
> >I hesitate to relate how I massacred "schedule" before I heard how
> >other people pronounce it.
> **************************
> "SHED-y@l' was said to have been the received pronunciation in Britain.
> There's an old story about Lady Astor visiting the US, being invited to lunch
> by Dorothy Parker, and declining, saying her "shedule" would not permit it.
> Miss Parker answered "Oh skit!"
Which is odd because Lady Astor's relatives including Joyce Grenfell
commented on her American accent and her refusal to adopt the British
pronunciation of words. Obviously this was a) an apocryphal story or b)
one of the words she did adopt.
Jac
Jacqui
> I only ever heard "nucular" used in a science fiction movie.
It's the favoured pronunciation in Springfield. Homer is a worker in a
nucular power plant.
Jac
abc
Ivan Markose
"James' Nemesis" <Dems@reidiots> wrote in message
news:9cnmju$qvf$0...@dosa.alt.net...
jan sand
I am delighted to know there are still Walt Kelly fans extant.
Jan Sand
jan sand
That makes me very curious. What kind of trouble?
Jan Sand
Mike Lyle
sand wrote:
>
>On 02 May 2001 03:59:01 GMT, slhin...@aol.com (Sam Hinton) wrote:
>>subject doesn't always go with good speech habits.
>>I knew a world-famous ichthyologist (now dead) who often had trouble, in
>>public speeches, with the word "water."
>>
>>
>That makes me very curious. What kind of trouble?
>
As an ichthyologist he had good reason to be made nervous by the stuff: fish
fuck in it.
Mike.
jan sand
wrote:
What makes you nervous? Water or fucking? I enjoy both of them.
Although I must admit I have never attempted to cohabit with a fish.
Jan Sand
Sam Hinton
(referring to a posting about Lady Astor and Dorothy Parker):
>Which is odd because Lady Astor's relatives including Joyce Grenfell
>commented on her American accent and her refusal to adopt the British
>pronunciation of words. Obviously this was a) an apocryphal story or b)
>one of the words she did adopt.
****************************
Any story involving Dorothy Parker is likely to be apocryphal.
Sam
La Jolla, CA USA
Jacqui
> Jacqui wrote
> (referring to a posting about Lady Astor and Dorothy Parker):
>
> >Which is odd because Lady Astor's relatives including Joyce Grenfell
> >commented on her American accent and her refusal to adopt the British
> >pronunciation of words. Obviously this was a) an apocryphal story or b)
> >one of the words she did adopt.
> ****************************
> Any story involving Dorothy Parker is likely to be apocryphal.
*Some* of them have to be true, though? Shirley? (but no, I don't think
this one is) ;)
Jac
Sam Hinton
>slhin...@aol.com (Sam Hinton) wrote:
>>........I knew a world-famous ichthyologist (now dead) who often had
trouble,
>>in
>>public speeches, with the word "water."
>That makes me very curious. What kind of trouble?
*************************
It was primarily a problem in getting it out. He often said things like "In
that area the uh -- ah -- mm - WAT-ter is of a low salinity," "or "We took the
temperature of the -- ahh-hm, umm - WAT-ter... " My point was, of course,
that this did not keep Carl Leavitt Hubbs from being recognized, especially by
other ichthyologists, as one of the world's leading practitioners of that
profession.
Sam,
La Jolla CA USA
Steve Hayes
wrote:
Oops, I'd better watch more TV. I'm getting out of touch with popular culture,
spending too much time in AUE.
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Armond Perretta
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
>
> ... I'd better watch more TV. I'm getting out of touch with popular
culture,
> spending too much time in AUE.
[clears throat loudly] This IS popular culture.
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://members.tripod.com/kerrydeare
(site recently revised)
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum writes:
> > ... due to the pronunciations of various teachers, I went through
> > a period in my childhood in which I thought that an atom had a
> > "nucleus" while a cell had a "nuculus".
>
> In which could be found ribonuculic acid and deoxyribonuculic acid?
Nope. I guess that the shift in stress kept him from making the
substitution.
> > Until looking it up just now, I hadn't realized that the original
> > meaning of "nucleus" was "the small brighter and denser portion of
> > a galaxy or of the head of a comet".
>
> The OED dates both that meaning and the meaning "the kernel of a
> nut" to the same year, 1704.
I see. One of my main gripes with MWCD is that they only date the
first sense, so you have no way to tell how much or how little time
elapsed before the secondary ones arose.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It's not coherent, it's merely
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |focused.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Keith Moore
Ross Howard
wrote:
>On Wed, 02 May 2001 09:05:55 +0100, Jacqui <Jac...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> I only ever heard "nucular" used in a science fiction movie.
>>
>>It's the favoured pronunciation in Springfield. Homer is a worker in a
>>nucular power plant.
>
>Oops, I'd better watch more TV. I'm getting out of touch with popular culture,
>spending too much time in AUE.
Homer died in Spain last month.
There was a media presentation of his new dubber the other week.
Oh, and Bart's a girl.
Ross Howard
Jacqui
> Steve Hayes wrote:
> Jacqui wrote:
> >>Steve Hayes wrote:
> >>
> >>> I only ever heard "nucular" used in a science fiction movie.
> >>
> >>It's the favoured pronunciation in Springfield. Homer is a worker in a
> >>nucular power plant.
> >
> >Oops, I'd better watch more TV. I'm getting out of touch with popular culture,
> >spending too much time in AUE.
>
> Homer died in Spain last month.
Carlos Revilla died in September 2000. They haven't lost another one,
have they?
Jac
Ross Howard
No, but such was the national trauma, he was lying in state for six
months before the funeral, hence my confusion.
Ross Howard
Mark Brader
> I only ever heard "nucular" used in a science fiction movie. I assumed
> more terrible and devastating than ordinary nuclear ones.
I forwarded some of this thread to a friend who's anuclear physicist.
He said:
When someone says that[,] I always picture that their head is full
of muculus.
It occurs to me that the one-syllable contraction of "nuclear" and
related forms has a property in common with the one-syllable
contraction of "microphone" discussed recently in this newsgroup:
just as both "mike" and "mic" are used, so also both "nuke" and "nuc"
are used. But in this case, unlic the other, I don't think the C form
has any large constituency of users.
--
Mark Brader | "In a case like this, where the idiom is old and its wiring
Toronto | probably a mess, we tamper with nothing. There is always
m...@vex.net | the danger it will blow up in your face." -- Matthew Hart
John O'Flaherty
> m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
>
> > Evan Kirshenbaum writes:
> > > ... due to the pronunciations of various teachers, I went through
> > > a period in my childhood in which I thought that an atom had a
> > > "nucleus" while a cell had a "nuculus".
> >
> > In which could be found ribonuculic acid and deoxyribonuculic acid?
>
> Nope. I guess that the shift in stress kept him from making the
> substitution.
>
> > > Until looking it up just now, I hadn't realized that the original
> > > meaning of "nucleus" was "the small brighter and denser portion of
> > > a galaxy or of the head of a comet".
> >
> > The OED dates both that meaning and the meaning "the kernel of a
> > nut" to the same year, 1704.
>
> I see. One of my main gripes with MWCD is that they only date the
> first sense, so you have no way to tell how much or how little time
> elapsed before the secondary ones arose.
AHD gives the etymology as
[Latin nuculeus, nucleus, kernel, from nucula, little nut, diminutive of nux,
nuc-, nut.]
So it looks like they couldn't decide how to pronounce it, either.
--
john
change roast to burnt bread to reply
Charles Riggs
wrote:
Once you get scrod, you'll never forget it.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Wed, 02 May 2001 10:49:09 GMT, in <3aefe5f4...@news.mindspring.com>, jan
More disturbing than that is that they piss in it.
Charles Riggs
jan sand
So do I.
Jan Sand
Len
That's right, and a lot of people, along with the fish and other
animals, shit in it; but the really bad news is that some people pollute
it. Len
jan sand
Pollute here becomes a rather inexact term. Life on this planet has
evolved to utilize waste from one set of creatures to nourish another
set. Pollution occurs when an extraneous substance is introduced into
this cycle or if one part of the cycle is so overloaded that the
system gets out of balance and ceases to operate properly. I could
collect my piss in large containers but this would remove large
quantities of material from the cycle. My own contributions are not
significant, but if this became general, the cycle would have
problems.
So I figure it's better to piss in the water.
Jan Sand
Peter Moylan
>The OED dates both that meaning and the meaning "the kernel of a nut"
>to the same year, 1704. It occurs to me, in view of the widespread
>trouble with the word "nucleus", that we're lucky the people who
>popularized the term "kernel" in connection with computer operating
>systems didn't decide to call the thing a nucleus instead...
You and I might call it a kernel. The people who say 'nuculus'
call it a kernal. I still have the original Commodore 64 manuals
to prove it.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
Peter Moylan
>
>"abc" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3aef...@news.starhub.net.sg...
>> Who the hell are you; Albert Einstein ?!
>>
>
>No...I am
No, we were talking about Einstein. No relation to Einstien.
Steve Hayes
>>The OED dates both that meaning and the meaning "the kernel of a nut"
>>to the same year, 1704. It occurs to me, in view of the widespread
>>trouble with the word "nucleus", that we're lucky the people who
>>popularized the term "kernel" in connection with computer operating
>>systems didn't decide to call the thing a nucleus instead...
>
>You and I might call it a kernel. The people who say 'nuculus'
>call it a kernal. I still have the original Commodore 64 manuals
>to prove it.
And missed the opportunity to call it a colonel - they must be ciqueing
themselves!
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Len
Of course you are right, and I was remiss by not expressing myself
better. I was talking about people like those who spray pesticides all
over certain areas in Colombia to eliminate the coca plants and who,
while they are at it, spray a lot of the poison into the people's
waterways, many of which are the people's only sources of drinking
water.
Len
jan sand
You don't have to go to Colombia to discover pollution. The spraying
of anti-mosquito pesticides right here in New York seems to have done
something awful to the local shellfish.
Jan Sand