Gender of Owls & Swans
Sumitra Devi
A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what do
you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
Sumitra
khann
Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are cows
and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
Male swans are called cobs.
Paul Draper
-
khann wrote in message <36403D...@hitchhiker.ca>...
And female swans are pens (or is it penns?). I would call the owls a
cock-owl and hen-owl. I don't know if there are separate name for them, a
quick look at some of the owl pages on the Web has turned nothing up.
Paul Draper
pdr...@baig.co.uk
0171 369 2754
SLHinton17
>Sumitra Devi wrote:
>>
>> Hello.........I need some assistance.
>> A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
>>swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what do
>>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>>
>
>Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are cows
>and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
>Male swans are called cobs.
***********************************
In that context, what is missing is a generic term for both males and females;
maybe this is where scientific nomenclature comes in! The last quoted
sentence would thus be something like "Males of the birds of the subfamily
Cygnininae are called "cobs"; the females are called "swans."
In some rural communities of my East Texas youth ( back in the 1920s), terms
referring specifically to male animals were generally taboo in polite
conversation; thus "boar" was a slightly naughty word, while "sow" was
acceptable; "stud" was very bad, and "stallion" only a little better, but
"mare" was OK. And Vance Randolph, in his engaging book (_Down In the Holler_)
about rural language in Arkansas, reported that he had heard "gentleman cow"
in place of "bull." "Dog" applied to both sexes, but "bitch" was quite all
right for a female; among professional breeders, "dog" meant a male of _Canis
familiaris_. There's a story of a city woman who looked uncomfortable when a
breeder used the word "bitch;" when he apologized, she said "Oh, that's all
right; I just never heard the word applied to a dog before!"
Leadbelly, "The King of the Twelve-String Guitar was worried anbout singing a
certain song in front of a white audience because it had the line "Papa's gotta
cut that other little bull." He feared that both "cut" (meaning "castrate")
and ":bull" would be offensive.
Baby owls are "owlets", but I've never come across terms separating male and
female owls.
Sam Hinton
La Jolla, CA
khann
> khann wrote:
> >Sumitra Devi wrote:
> >>
> >> A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
> >> swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what
> >> do you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
> >
> >Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are cows
> >and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
> >Male swans are called cobs.
>
>
Thanx ... I couldn't remember the term for a female swan - just "pens"
by the way - only one "n", and the young ones are known as cynets
regardless of their gender.
Skitt
SLHinton17 wrote in message <19981104094944...@ng83.aol.com>...
>Baby owls are "owlets", but I've never come across terms separating male
and
>female owls.
I believe that the terms "hen" and "cock" or "rooster" may be used to
differentiate between the genders of various birds when a specific term,
such as "cob" for a male swan, does not exist. "Tom" is another term for a
male animal, but, to my knowledge, as far as birds are concerned, it is
applied only to turkeys.
--
Skitt http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Central Florida CAUTION: My opinion may vary.
Martha Sprowles
<snip>
> Thanx ... I couldn't remember the term for a female swan - just "pens"
> by the way - only one "n", and the young ones are known as cynets
> regardless of their gender.
Not "cynets"--cygnets.
Martha
khann
>
> khann wrote
>
> >Male swans are called cobs.
> In that context, what is missing is a generic term for both males and females;
> maybe this is where scientific nomenclature comes in! The last quoted
> sentence would thus be something like "Males of the birds of the subfamily
> Cygnininae are called "cobs"; the females are called "swans."
>
Wrong, but thank you for playing. This is not a matter of ducks &
drakes. The gender non-specific term is "swan" and there are specific
gender terms for both genders of swan. While female swans are certainly
swans, after you've been introduced properly they are called pens ...
see thread. Never come between a pen and her cynet unless you want real
demonstration of female fury.
See if you can apply some scientific nomenclature to the following
questions:
Is it politically correct to call a "black swan" black?
Are "mute swans" properly referred to as mute or as speech-challenged?
Does use of the term "common white swan" imply societal or racial
elitism?
Does the expression "swanning around" imply that swans are lazier than
other birds?
Padraig Breathnach
<19981104094944...@ng83.aol.com>...
> On Wed, Nov 04, 1998, khann <kh...@hitchhiker.ca> wrote
>
> >Sumitra Devi wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello.........I need some assistance.
female
> >>swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull,
what do
> >>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
> >>
> >
> >Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are cows
> >and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
> ***********************************
> In that context, what is missing is a generic term for both males and
females;
> maybe this is where scientific nomenclature comes in! The last quoted
> sentence would thus be something like "Males of the birds of the
subfamily
> Cygnininae are called "cobs"; the females are called "swans."
>
It's true that the females are often called "swans" as, indeed, are the
males. You can indicate the gender by calling the female a "pen".
What colour is a peacock's egg?
PB
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
<b309...@student.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>Hello.........I need some assistance.
>A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
>swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what do
>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
>Sumitra
I think you may be on a good thing if "Sumitra Devi" conceals a male.
But yours is not the right response. Check on just how young she is,
and Aussie rules, but. And read Burton.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
<b309...@student.anu.edu.au> writes:
>A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
>swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what do
>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
I feel as if there may be a distinctive word for a male swan, but I can neither
recall it nor locate it; and the fact is that few of us are sufficiently
skilled ornithologically to tell male from female swans, anyway, so we just
call large white water birds "swans". I'm pretty sure there is not a
distinctive word for a male or female owl.
Young owls are "owlets" and young swans "cygnets".
Gary Williams
Rod Taylor
khann wrote in message <36403D...@hitchhiker.ca>...
>Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are
cows
>and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
>Male swans are called cobs.
Yes, and the female of the species is a pen. I don't know the gender
specific terms for owls, and would be as pleased as the original
poster to have this information. I was hoping that by now someone
would have posted the answers to both queries and saved me the need to
post only one set of answers.
Khann's post raises another interesting point. In using the phrase
"...cattle, elephants, whales, etc." plurals are used. The singular
of 'whales' is 'whale'. The singular of 'elephants' is 'elephant'.
It is not necessary to describe an elephant or a whale as a 'bull' or
'cow' unless the gender is important. The same applies to swans.
"That swan is a cob" makes sense to me, as does "That elephant is a
bull". However, there doesn't seem to be an effective singular for
'cattle'.
This may be because cattle, being domesticated, have a level of
importance that renders the use of gender-specific terms necessary. I
don't know the reason. We have words such as 'heifer' and 'ox', and
their plurals, which describe the sexual status of individual animals.
The nearest word I've found for a single bovine animal of non-specific
gender is 'neat'. That term seems to be obsolete (but still exists in
several combinatorial forms, such as 'neat's-foot oil' and
'neathouse'). Is this word still in general use? Has the language
lost the need for such a word? Has the term 'cow' supplanted this
word, even though technically it is gender-specific?
I would be glad to read comments from the group on this subject.
Rod
Bob Newman
female".
It also gives "madge" for a barn owl, apparently of either sex.
I can't find a word for a male owl.
Bob Newman
Sumitra Devi wrote:
> Hello.........I need some assistance.
> A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
> swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what do
> you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
> Sumitra
khann
I knew that ... I just can't type well while biting my toenails at the
same time. Thanx for the correction.
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets, cygnets,
cygnets, cygnets
There, now I shall remember it for life.
TsuiDF
>
> On Wed, 04 Nov 1998 11:11:40 -0400, khann <kh...@hitchhiker.ca> wrote:
>
> >Thanx ... I couldn't remember the term for a female swan - just "pens"
> >by the way - only one "n", and the young ones are known as cynets
> >regardless of their gender.
>
Irrelevant but irresistible aside: I was explaining the word 'cygnet'
to a Chinese colleague at a publishing house, where each of us
translates and edits materials more likely to deal with finance or law
than with ornithology. I asked her if there was a Chinese word for
'cygnet', she thought for a few moments, concluded there wasn't, but
then added, triumphantly, "'Baby swan' -- or 'little swan'!"
"Baby swan" became one of those silly office buzzwords for some time
afterwards and totally destroyed our professional decorum. Go figure.
Stephanie M in M20
feeling at home now I've seen the Trafford Centre, strangely reminiscent
of Pacific Place in HK
K1912
[...]
>what do
>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
>
Commonly, the horned owl, or, as nicknamed by the world-renowned ornithologist
John James Audubon, the Strigiformes weewee.
K1912
Martha Sprowles
I'm sorry; I can't help it.
The American Robin is Turdus migratorius.
Please forgive me.
Martha Sprowles
Brian J Goggin
wrote:
[...]
>Stephanie M in M20
>feeling at home now I've seen the Trafford Centre, strangely reminiscent
>of Pacific Place in HK
But have you been to Old Trafford yet?
bjg
Fred Louder
Rod Taylor wrote in message <71q55e$lpa$2...@news01.iafrica.com>...
>
>khann wrote in message <36403D...@hitchhiker.ca>...
>
>>Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are
>>cows and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
>>Male swans are called cobs.
Don't take free speech for granted! In 19th-century America, the word "bull"
was considered indecent. Euphemisms denoting the male bovine, such as
"cow-creature," "gentleman cow," "seed-ox," and "Jonathan" continued in use
well into the 20th century.
For a truly astonishing account of linguistic pruderies of yesteryear, see
"Forbidden Words" in Mencken, _The American Language_.
Fred Louder
Sumitra Devi
Thank you for the overwhelming response to my query. I can now satisfy the
enquiring young mind which comes up with the devil of the questions at
times.
I gather that everyone agrees that a male swan is a cob and a female swan
is a pen while a young swan is a cygnet. On the other hand, owls probably
are not specifically differentiated by gender, though one could probably
differentiate them by the term 'hen' or 'cock'. Someone also said that a
female owl could be a called a 'jenny'. Young owls are owlets.
Thanks again people.
Sumitra
Lindsay
Padraig Breathnach wrote in message
<01be0810$416e5000$de2c...@padraigb.iol.ie>...
>>
><snip>
>It's true that the females are often called "swans" as, indeed, are the
>males. You can indicate the gender by calling the female a "pen".
>
>What colour is a peacock's egg?
>
LOL! Thanks for that, while it's raining and snowing outside I shall
smile, reminding myself to ask Matt tonight for his opinion.
Totally off-topic, I never quite believed that peafowl could fly until I
saw some roosting in a tree in York. They couldn't have climbed up so
they *must* have flown.
Back on topic, everyone in the UK should try to watch David
Attenborough's latest egg, "The Life of Birds". I think he refers
generally to "the male (bird's name here)" and "the female (bird's name
here)".
Linz
--
oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn't say
reply to: li...@earthling.net
You can also find linz at gofar dot demon dot co dot uk
Lindsay
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
wrote:
>
>The (specifically Eurasian?) Wren is _Troglodytes troglodytes_.
>
>Comments?
>Michael
Often found with the Admiral in hide-aways.
Frances Kemmish
I was interested to see "Jonathan" listed as a term for a male bovine. I
have recently read some of the Bernard Cornwell "Sharpe" novels, in
which "Jonathan" is a word for an American.
Fran
Martha Sprowles
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> Martha Sprowles wrote in alt.usage.english:
>
> The (specifically Eurasian?) Wren is _Troglodytes troglodytes_.
>
> Comments?
>
I'll say.
Martha
Truly Donovan
wrote:
>Back on topic, everyone in the UK should try to watch David
>Attenborough's latest egg, "The Life of Birds". I think he refers
>generally to "the male (bird's name here)" and "the female (bird's name
>here)".
Then the one I saw last night must have been translated for an
American audience, because the male was called a "tercel" -- I don't
recall hearing what the female was called, but she was nagging the
male for not doing his job properly, so we know what *he* was calling
her.
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
Perchprism
>From: tru...@ibm.net (Truly Donovan)
>Date: 11/5/98 6:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <36451645...@news3.ibm.net>
Very nice, Truly. I looked it up: Tercel (also) tiercel is a term in falconry
meaning a male hawk (among the smaller hawks, I believe). The third egg in a
clutch was thought to produce a male. "Falcon" is used for the female of those
smaller hawks, not "bitch," however she might squawk. The MW on-line has
"tiercel" as the main entry, whereas the NODE on-line has "tercel" first.
Curious. Neither one says that the spelling it claims is a variant is "chiefly
British" or anything like that.
I remember now seeing "tiercel" in *The Sword in the Stone*. The part where
Wart is a hawk is chock-full of falconry terms, but that book is among the
missing here.
I was hoping that when we found the words for hawks they'd cross over to owls,
but these won't, will they? "Hen" just doesn't sound right for a bird of prey.
Perchprism
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God." John 1:1
Skitt
Truly Donovan <tru...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:36451645...@news3.ibm.net...
>On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:42:27 -0000, "Lindsay" <li...@earthling.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Back on topic, everyone in the UK should try to watch David
>>Attenborough's latest egg, "The Life of Birds". I think he refers
>>generally to "the male (bird's name here)" and "the female (bird's name
>>here)".
>
>Then the one I saw last night must have been translated for an
>American audience, because the male was called a "tercel" -- I don't
>recall hearing what the female was called, but she was nagging the
>male for not doing his job properly, so we know what *he* was calling
>her.
A tiercel (using the the predominant spelling) is a male hawk.
Lindsay Endell
>On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:42:27 -0000, "Lindsay" <li...@earthling.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Back on topic, everyone in the UK should try to watch David
>>Attenborough's latest egg, "The Life of Birds". I think he refers
>>generally to "the male (bird's name here)" and "the female (bird's name
>>here)".
>
>Then the one I saw last night must have been translated for an
>American audience, because the male was called a "tercel" -- I don't
>recall hearing what the female was called, but she was nagging the
>male for not doing his job properly, so we know what *he* was calling
>her.
>
<throat clearing noises>
Sorry, what I should have said was that DA refers generally to "the
male (bird) and the female (bird) except where there's a specific
name". My bad, I do believe...
So, we have peacocks and peahens, cobs and pens, can we talk about
Empress penguins?
Linz
--
Oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn't say.
http://www.gofar.demon.co.uk/ - Issue 1 available now
Lindsay Endell
You see, given a sensible, interesting question we can be useful and
have a great discussion!
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
Endell) wrote:
>You see, given a sensible, interesting question we can be useful and
>have a great discussion!
>
>Linz
What's to "discuss"? Dictionary definitions of nouns?
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
Endell) wrote:
>Truly Donovan wrote:
>>Then the one I saw last night must have been translated for an
>>American audience, because the male was called a "tercel" -- I don't
>>recall hearing what the female was called, but she was nagging the
>>male for not doing his job properly, so we know what *he* was calling
>>her.
I wonder whether he called the female anything other than the 'hen'?
A tercel (smaller than the female and nimbler) is the name for any
kind of hawk -- of both the stub-winged and pointed-wing varieties --
but I have been unable to find a matching word for the female. The
need for a separate word probably arose from the falconer's
preference.
Martha Sprowles
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> Martha Sprowles wrote in alt.usage.english:
> :...
> :... crex crex ?
>
> [Eh?]
>
> --
> Michael
Yup.
Dave Crane
>SLHinton17 wrote:
>>
>> khann wrote
>>
>> >Male swans are called cobs.
>> ***********************************
>> In that context, what is missing is a generic term for both males and females;
>> maybe this is where scientific nomenclature comes in! The last quoted
>> sentence would thus be something like "Males of the birds of the subfamily
>> Cygnininae are called "cobs"; the females are called "swans."
>>
>Wrong, but thank you for playing. This is not a matter of ducks &
>drakes. The gender non-specific term is "swan" and there are specific
>gender terms for both genders of swan. While female swans are certainly
>swans, after you've been introduced properly they are called pens ...
>see thread. Never come between a pen and her cynet unless you want real
>demonstration of female fury.
Bite your toenails (again)!
Geoff Butler
writes:
>In article <01be07d8$0941f340$4973...@brucehall59.anu.edu.au>, "Sumitra Devi"
><b309...@student.anu.edu.au> writes:
>
>>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
>recall it nor locate it;
Cob.
>and the fact is that few of us are sufficiently
>skilled ornithologically to tell male from female swans, anyway, so we just
>call large white water birds "swans".
Indeed.
-ler
Truly Donovan
>
>Truly Donovan <tru...@ibm.net> wrote in message
>news:36451645...@news3.ibm.net...
>>On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:42:27 -0000, "Lindsay" <li...@earthling.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Back on topic, everyone in the UK should try to watch David
>>>Attenborough's latest egg, "The Life of Birds". I think he refers
>>>generally to "the male (bird's name here)" and "the female (bird's name
>>>here)".
>>
>>Then the one I saw last night must have been translated for an
>>American audience, because the male was called a "tercel" -- I don't
>>recall hearing what the female was called, but she was nagging the
>>male for not doing his job properly, so we know what *he* was calling
>>her.
>
>A tiercel (using the the predominant spelling) is a male hawk.
If I didn't already know that, I wouldn't have been able to make the
remark I made. And yours is not the predominant spelling on the cars
around here, which is where I usually see it spelled.
DK
>>> >you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>>> Commonly, the horned owl, or, as nicknamed by the world-renowned
>>ornithologist
>>> John James Audubon, the Strigiformes weewee.
>>The American Robin is Turdus migratorius.
>
>The (specifically Eurasian?) Wren is _Troglodytes troglodytes_.
And "Puffinus puffinus" is... the Manx Shearwater. Go figure.
--Katrina
Geoff Butler
Sorry Katrina, this is absolutely wrong: the Manx Shearwater is
"Puffinus puffinus puffinus".
-ler
K1912
>>>> >what do
>>>> >you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
>>>> Commonly, the horned owl, or, as nicknamed by the world-renowned
>>>ornithologist
>>>> John James Audubon, the Strigiformes weewee.
>
The above reply to the male owl post was just alot of Friday tomfoolery on my
part, not meant to be taken seriously. Audubon didn't nickname the horned owl
"Strigiformes weewee." I did--as a joke. I just used Audubon's name for
purposes of ornithological verisimilitude, reasoning that it would probably
carry more weight (birdmanwise) than mine. (I was going to use Strigiformes
peeweewee but thought it too unsubtle for any AUE birdwatchers, of whom there
apparently aren't alotof.)
>>>The American Robin is Turdus migratorius.
>>
>>The (specifically Eurasian?) Wren is _Troglodytes troglodytes_.
>
>And "Puffinus puffinus" is... the Manx Shearwater. Go figure.
George, who is not going to mention that the Sooty Shearwater is Puffinus
griseus ...
K1912
Albert Marshall
>In article <01be07d8$0941f340$4973...@brucehall59.anu.edu.au>, "Sumitra Devi"
><b309...@student.anu.edu.au> writes:
>
>>A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
>>you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
>
>skilled ornithologically to tell male from female swans, anyway, so we just
>call large white water birds "swans".
Including the ones that I know as geese, pelicans and albatross?
(Albatrosses?)
--
Albert Marshall
Visual Solutions
Kent, England
01634 400902
Fernando Melendez
cob, and not a swan; Zeus had become a divine godemiche for the
occasion.
Fernando
Simon R. Hughes
> (Albatrosses?)
What do you mean, 'What does it taste like?'?
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://skrik.home.ml.org
For ever the latter end of joye is wo.
God woot that worldly joye is sone ago
Larry Phillips
Melendez) wrote:
Depends on what you mean by 'this thread', I suppose. According to the
majority here, and several dictionaries, a cob is a swan. What it
isn't, is a pen.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
When life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.
-- Grateful Dead
http://cr347197-a.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com/larry/
lech...@uswest.net
to ask the owl which gender it prefers, regardless of sex.
-John
khann wrote:
> Paul Draper wrote:
> > khann wrote:
> > >Sumitra Devi wrote:
> > >>
> > >> A young girl has asked me if there are words to describe a male & female
> > >> swan and a male & female owl? I mean if you call a male cow a bull, what
> > >> do you call a male owl? Or do such words exist?
> > >
> > >Is a man a male woman? No, and bulls are not "male cows". Cows are cows
> > >and bulls are bulls, whether they are cattle, elephants, whales, etc.
> > >Male swans are called cobs.
> >
> > And female swans are pens (or is it penns?).
> >
>
> Thanx ... I couldn't remember the term for a female swan - just "pens"
> by the way - only one "n", and the young ones are known as cynets
> regardless of their gender.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
<albert....@execfrog.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Including the ones that I know as geese, pelicans and albatross?
Around here, if you see a pelican or an albatross you are probably well into
your cups. Geese, I give you; I should have said "bigger than a goose".
Gary Williams