What does it mean to knock the wind out of somebody?
BST
quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means (both
in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly does it mean?
Thanks.
Tony Cooper
If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like an eternity)
You feel paralyzed.
It can happen if you are struck by someone or something or if you
suffer a serious fall. It happened to me in a fall off a roof.
It's used metaphorically more than it is used to describe a real
condition. Something that shocks you greatly is said to "knock the
wind out of you" because it "takes your breath away". In the
metaphorical sense, it just means something very shocking or
surprising.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
jinhyun
I thought that it was just a shortening of 'knock the wind out of your
sails' which meant discomfit and paralyse you completely so that you
can't even react.
HVS
> On Mar 4, 7:18 pm, Tony Cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:05:00 GMT, BST <I...@o.I> wrote:
>>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that
>>> I've seen quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly
>>> what it means (both in terms of literal meaning and
>>> connotation). What exactly does it mean?
>>
>> If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A
>> blow to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you
>> to be unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like
>> an eternity) You feel paralyzed.
>>
>> It can happen if you are struck by someone or something or if
>> you suffer a serious fall. It happened to me in a fall off a
>> roof.
>>
>> It's used metaphorically more than it is used to describe a
>> real condition. Something that shocks you greatly is said to
>> "knock the wind out of you" because it "takes your breath
>> away". In the metaphorical sense, it just means something very
>> shocking or surprising.
>>
>
> I thought that it was just a shortening of 'knock the wind out
> of your sails' which meant discomfit and paralyse you completely
> so that you can't even react.
I'm with Tony: to me, it means being winded by a force to the
chest.
Happened to me once or twice as a child; the one I particularly
remember was when I fell of the top of a 4-foot-high garden fence,
and smacked my chest on the ground. I recall feeling absolute
panic when it happened.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
Francis Cameron
for breath.
--
Francis Cameron
the Omrud
It's also worth reporting the sailing term - "to take the wind out of
someone's sails" which means to pass another boat to windward, thus
depriving them of the wind. Their boat loses power and speed.
Figuratively, it means putting forward an argument to which the other
person has no response, hence putting them at a disadvantage.
--
David
=====
John Kane
No, it has a literal meaning as Tony describes. "Knock the wind out
of your sails" may have a similar metaphorical meaning but the two
terms seem to come from quite different sources.
Mind you, now that I think of it I believe the more common term is
"Take the wind out of your sails" which is some kind of sailing
manoeuvre where a ship or boat blocks the wind from another vessel.
"Knocking the wind out of your sails" probably is also known as
ramming in maritime terms.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
jinhyun
> tony_cooper...@earthlink.net had it:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, this is what I thought and said.
HVS
>> tony_cooper...@earthlink.net had it:
>>> real condition. Something that shocks you greatly is said to
>>> "knock the wind out of you" because it "takes your breath
>>> away". In the metaphorical sense, it just means something
>>> very shocking or surprising.
>>
>> It's also worth reporting the sailing term - "to take the wind
>> out of someone's sails" which means to pass another boat to
>> windward, thus depriving them of the wind. Their boat loses
>> power and speed. Figuratively, it means putting forward an
>> argument to which the other person has no response, hence
>> putting them at a disadvantage.
Notice the difference, though: the OP asked about "knock the wind
out of someone", whereas David's mentioned the sailing term of "take
the wind out of...sails".
"Knocking" the wind out of someone's sails isn't the expression
that's used for the sailing manoeuvre, and as John Kane has posted,
it would probably mean something different.
jinhyun
Yeah, I looked it up. I think 'knock the wind out of someone's sails'
is a hybrid of 'knock the wind out of' and 'take the wind out of
someone's sails' meaning the latter, and not the full form of 'knock
the wind out of' as I thought before. I don't think it means anything
literally, (actually it's a mistake) but figuratively means the same
as 'take the wind out of someone's sails' (but sounds better, don't
you think?). I think we'd need the big OED to clarify that, though. I
think someone here has online access(probably more than one).
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>On Mar 4, 7:18 pm, Tony Cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:05:00 GMT, BST <I...@o.I> wrote:
>> >"To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>> >quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means (both
>> >in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly does it mean?
>>
>> If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
>> to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
>> unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like an eternity)
>> You feel paralyzed.
>>
>> It can happen if you are struck by someone or something or if you
>> suffer a serious fall. It happened to me in a fall off a roof.
>>
>> It's used metaphorically more than it is used to describe a real
>> condition. Something that shocks you greatly is said to "knock the
>> wind out of you" because it "takes your breath away". In the
>> metaphorical sense, it just means something very shocking or
>> surprising.
>
>I thought that it was just a shortening of 'knock the wind out of your
>sails' which meant discomfit and paralyse you completely so that you
>can't even react.
In my experience with the usages, to "knock the wind out of..." means
to shock them so much that are metaphorically paralyzed for a short
time. To "take the wind out their sails" means to discourage or
deflate them.
If I have what I think is a great plan and present it to you, and you
point out some flaws in my idea, you have taken the wind out of my
sails. If you never support my plans, but support this one, you have
knocked the wind out of me.
Don Phillipson
> > >"To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression . . .
> On Mar 4, 7:18 pm, Tony Cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
> > to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
> > unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like an eternity)
> > You feel paralyzed . . .
"jinhyun" <jinhyu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173018757.5...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...>
> I thought that it was just a shortening of 'knock the wind out of your
> sails' which meant discomfit and paralyse you completely so that you
> can't even react.
No. The phrase comes from boxing. The place on the
torso where a hard blow has this effect used to be called
"the solar plexus" (although it is hard to guess why: perhaps
it sounded scientific at a period when people talked about
boxing as a science.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Donna Richoux
> Yeah, I looked it up. I think 'knock the wind out of someone's sails'
> is a hybrid of 'knock the wind out of' and 'take the wind out of
> someone's sails' meaning the latter, and not the full form of 'knock
> the wind out of' as I thought before. I don't think it means anything
> literally, (actually it's a mistake) but figuratively means the same
> as 'take the wind out of someone's sails' (but sounds better, don't
> you think?). I think we'd need the big OED to clarify that, though. I
> think someone here has online access(probably more than one).
I doubt very much whether the OED would be the slightest help on this
question. Here's what Google shows for usage on the Web:
"take the wind out of * sails" 76,000
"knock the wind out of" 30,600
"knock the wind out of * sails" 631
You can see that the third just barely exists, and, as you say, it's
probably a recent, simple combination of the two better known phrases.
Some phrases with counts as low as that third one are disappearing
remnants of old phrases (which I do not think applies here), and others
are new creations (erroneous as well as deliberate). Still others are
restricted to certain dialect groups or fields of work. You'd have to
look further and who is using it and why. Searching the Usenet archives
can be revealing, for recently coined phrases -- the posts can even be
sorted by date.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
John Dean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_plexus
"The celiac plexus is often popularly referred to as the solar plexus
(especially by professional wrestling commentators), generally in the
context of a blow to the stomach. In many of these cases, it is not the
celiac plexus itself being referred to, but rather the region where it is
located. A blow to the stomach can upset this region. This can cause the
diaphragm to spasm, resulting in difficulty in breathing - a sensation
commonly known as "getting the wind knocked out of you". A blow to this
region can also affect the celiac plexus itself, possibly interfering with
the functioning of the viscera, as well as causing great pain.
According to Hindu beliefs, the solar plexus chakra is "the center of
etheric-psychic intuition: a vague or non-specific, sensual sense of
knowing; a vague sense of size, shape, and intent of being"[1]. As such,
some psychics recommend "listening" to it since it may help out in making
better decisions in one's life on many different levels"
--
John Dean
Oxford
tinwhistler
[snip]
> If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
> to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
> unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like an eternity)
> You feel paralyzed.
>
> It can happen if you are struck by someone or something or if you
> suffer a serious fall. It happened to me in a fall off a roof.
>
> It's used metaphorically more than it is used to describe a real
> condition. Something that shocks you greatly is said to "knock the
> wind out of you" because it "takes your breath away". In the
> metaphorical sense, it just means something very shocking or
> surprising.
Searching MOA (U Mich and Cornell) for early uses of "knock the wind
out of" I found an 1857 cite that supports the pugilistic theory of
origin, and an 1854 cite that seems to relate to harness horse racing
(but is probably importing the boxing phrase).
Title: Noetes ambrosianæ, by the late John Wilson and Wm. Maginn,
L.L.D., J. G. Lockhard, James Hogg, &c; with memoirs and notes by R.
Shelton Mackenzie.
Author: Wilson, John, 1785-1854.
Publication Info: New York,: Redfield, 1854.
Collection: Making of America Books [U Mich]
Page 145
...Editor. You are getting sentimental now, I think. Will you have
another tumbler? Odoherty. Hand me the lemons. This holy alliance of
Pisa will be a queer affair. The Examiner has let down its price from
a tenpenny to a sevenpenny. They say the editor here is to be one of
that faction, for they must publish in London of course. Editor. Of
course; but I doubt if they will be able to sell many. Byron is a
prince; but these dabbling dogglerers destroy every dish they dip in.
Odoherty. Apt alliteration's artful aid. Editor. Imagine Shelley, with
his spavin, and Hunt, with his stringhalt, going in the same harness
with such a caperer as Byron, three-a-breast! He'll knock the wind out
of them both the first canter. Odoherty. 'Tis pity Keats is dead. I
suppose you could not venture to publish a sonnet in which he is
mentioned now? The Quarterly (who killed him, as Shelley says) would
blame you. Editor. Let's hear it. Is it your own? Odoherty. No; 'twas
written many months ago by a certain great Italian genius, who cuts a
figure about the London routs-one Fudgiolo.~ "
* How Br. Biffles was Garroted: pp. 414-423
Title: Putnam's monthly magazine of American literature, science and
art. / Volume 9, Issue 52
Publisher: G.P. Putnam & co. Publication Date: April 1857
Pages 418 and 419
...Mr. Fogarty was awakened in the middle of an extremely tough snore,
by a sense of oppression on his chest. By the faint morning light he
was able to discern Mr. Brady's countenance within a few inches of his
own, and that gentleman's right elbow reposing exactly on the locality
which is chosen by pugilists when they desire to knock "the wind" out
of an adversary. Mr. Brady, kindly removing his elbow before he had
quite suffocated his friend, allowed him to rise and gather those
relics of his intellects which had been left by whisky punch, into
working order....
So I'm inclined to agree with the majority opinion developed in this
thread.
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Skitt
> BST wrote:
>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>> quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means
>> (both in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly
>> does it mean?
>>
> If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
> to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
> unable to breath for several seconds. [...]
The verb is "breathe". I don't know why, but quite a few people misspell
it. There is quite a pronunciation difference between "breath" and
"breathe" also.
This has been a public service announcement.
--
Skitt
Like you say... a idea what unclips every blind
flask of unspired geraniums what ever I is had.
--Churchy La Femme
Skitt
> BST writes
>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>> quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means
>> (both in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly does
>> it mean?
>>
> Startle or surprise them so much that they are [figuratively] gasping
> for breath.
I don't think there's any gasping involved, as that would indicate
breathing. There's just a complete lack of breathing for a while.
Literally.
--
Skitt
I may not understand what you say, but
I'll defend to your death my right to deny it.
--Albert Alligator
Spehro Pefhany
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:05:00 GMT, BST <I.o@o.I> wrote:
>
>>"To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>>quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means (both
>>in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly does it mean?
>>
>If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
>to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
>unable to breath for several seconds. (It will seem like an eternity)
>You feel paralyzed.
>
>It can happen if you are struck by someone or something or if you
>suffer a serious fall. It happened to me in a fall off a roof.
<snip>
Apparently, it's also called a "diaphragm spasm".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragm_spasm
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>> BST wrote:
>
>>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>>> quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means
>>> (both in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly
>>> does it mean?
>>>
>> If it's happened to you, you would understand it completely. A blow
>> to the midsection, high-up near the sternum, can cause you to be
>> unable to breath for several seconds. [...]
>
>The verb is "breathe". I don't know why, but quite a few people misspell
>it. There is quite a pronunciation difference between "breath" and
>"breathe" also.
>
>This has been a public service announcement.
Yeah, I know the difference. Just a slip of the fingers when not
paying attention. Such a slip shouldn't knock the wind out of you.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Francis Cameron wrote:
>> BST writes
>
>>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've seen
>>> quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it means
>>> (both in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What exactly does
>>> it mean?
>>>
>> Startle or surprise them so much that they are [figuratively] gasping
>> for breath.
>
>I don't think there's any gasping involved, as that would indicate
>breathing. There's just a complete lack of breathing for a while.
>Literally.
Yes, there is gasping involved. Since it happened to me fairly
recently, and it scared the shit out of me, I can describe it in
detail.
After the initial blow or impact, there is a complete lack of
breathing for a few seconds. Then the gasping begins. The gasping
continues before enough breaths are effected for you to consider that
you are breathing again. The first gasps are honking noises that
don't seem to be accompanied by any air reaching the lungs. The
gasping continues as air starts to reach the lungs, but it's not like
breathing stops and then starts again normally.
On impact, in my case, I felt my entire body was paralyzed. I was
sure I had broken my neck or severed my spine. Nothing was working.
I suppose that- from impact to recovery of the normal breathing
process - the whole thing took only a few seconds. It doesn't seem
like just a few seconds, though. It seems like several minutes.
You've heard people say "My whole life flashed before my eyes"? My
whole life didn't flash before my eyes, but there was a period of time
there where I could see my surroundings but I wasn't part of them. I
saw myself as a helpless, broken, cripple crumpled on the ground
waiting for someone to come and find me.
It was only a few seconds (I won't even try to guess how many), but
it's a helluva ride. After five or ten minutes of hobbling around
checking my body parts, I was able to climb back up on the roof and
retrieve my tools and put them away.
John Kane
Yes I think you're right. "Knock the wind' is simply a mistake for
"Take the wind". The concepts, figuratively anyway, are close enough
that one can see this happening. I know I had to stop for a moment
and run the two phrases through my mind before I was reasonably sure
that "Knock the wind" did not sound correct.
HVS
This reads as if you're saying that "knock the wind" -- in itself --
doesn't sound right.
Am I right in assuming that you're referring solely to "knock the
wind out of someone's sails" as being wrong -- and not "knock the
wind out of someone"? That's an entirely different -- and perfectly
idiomatic -- expression.
Richard Maurer
The phrase comes from boxing. The place on the
torso where a hard blow has this effect used to
be called "the solar plexus" (although it is hard
to guess why: perhaps it sounded scientific at a
period when people talked about boxing as a science.)
It still is called "the solar plexus" -- 42 hits in a Google News
recent news search and not all from boxing news.
My AmHer(1969) reminds me that it was called "solar plexus"
because of the radially branching ganglia.
Incidentally, I am surprised that people here had to fall
from a roof to learn about "getting the wind knocked out".
I thought that most boys experienced this about three times
in their boyhood while playing sports.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Francis Cameron wrote:
>>> BST writes
>>>> "To knock the wind out of [somebody]" is an expression that I've
>>>> seen quite a few times but I was never quite sure exactly what it
>>>> means (both in terms of literal meaning and connotation). What
>>>> exactly does it mean?
>>>>
>>> Startle or surprise them so much that they are [figuratively]
>>> gasping for breath.
>>
>> I don't think there's any gasping involved, as that would indicate
>> breathing. There's just a complete lack of breathing for a while.
>> Literally.
>
> Yes, there is gasping involved. Since it happened to me fairly
> recently, and it scared the shit out of me, I can describe it in
> detail.
>
> After the initial blow or impact, there is a complete lack of
> breathing for a few seconds.
There you go!
> Then the gasping begins. The gasping
> continues before enough breaths are effected for you to consider that
> you are breathing again. The first gasps are honking noises that
> don't seem to be accompanied by any air reaching the lungs. The
> gasping continues as air starts to reach the lungs, but it's not like
> breathing stops and then starts again normally.
Ok. I was referring to the initial phase of having the wind knocked out of
you. It be totally gone, as you said. To gasp is pretty much to breathe,
sort of, defined as
1 : to catch the breath convulsively and audibly (as with shock)
2 : to breathe laboriously
I snipped the rest of your sad tale, but you have my sympathy. It must have
been terrifying.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
Ray O'Hara
"BST" <I.o@o.I> wrote in message news:gmAGh.528$3i.176@trnddc01...
The air is knocked out of your lungs and they collapse.You gasp and flop
like a beached flounder.
It takes a few seconds to re-inflate them, a few very long seconds.
Tony Cooper
<rcpb1_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Don Phillipson wrote:
> The phrase comes from boxing. The place on the
> torso where a hard blow has this effect used to
> be called "the solar plexus" (although it is hard
> to guess why: perhaps it sounded scientific at a
> period when people talked about boxing as a science.)
>
>
>
>It still is called "the solar plexus" -- 42 hits in a Google News
>recent news search and not all from boxing news.
>
>My AmHer(1969) reminds me that it was called "solar plexus"
>because of the radially branching ganglia.
>
>Incidentally, I am surprised that people here had to fall
>from a roof to learn about "getting the wind knocked out".
>I thought that most boys experienced this about three times
>in their boyhood while playing sports.
Prior to the fall, the last time I had the wind knocked out of me was
my freshman year in high school...1952. That was from a punch. The
roof-fall incident was just a bit fresher in my mind.
jinhyun
> On 4 Mar 2007 06:32:37 -0800, "jinhyun" <jinhyunsh...@gmail.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, that sounds about right. Great example. As you say, 'knock the
wind out of someone's sails' means to deflate someone(this, I knew)
whereas 'knock the wind out of' (which I used to misinterpret before),
means to shock and completely bowl over(figuratively). Thanks
Richard Maurer
Searching MOA (U Mich and Cornell) for early uses of
"knock the wind out of" I found an 1857 cite that supports
the pugilistic theory of origin, and an 1854 cite that seems
to relate to harness horse racing (but is probably importing
the boxing phrase).
Add to that:
The old judge; or, Life in a colony, by the author of
'Sam Slick, the clockmaker'. -
Page 186 by Thomas Chandler Haliburton - 1849
Google Books Full view - 1849 on title page
... and trod me under foot, knocking the wind out of me,
and nearly breaking every rib in my body. Thinks I to myself,
what under the sun shall 1 do now? ...
The sportsman's dictionary: or The gentleman's companion:
for town and country. Containing full... -- 1800 page 1
Google Books Full view - 1800 date not confirmed
Under the entry for "Of Riding a Hunting Match
or _Heats for a plate_", ordered by "Match",
(the horse is the one in trouble here):
... him hard with the calves of his legs, as if he would
beat the wind out of his body, but ...
Since they in the early 1800s spoke of taking the wind
out of the "belly" of a sail [1], there may have been some early
cross currents between
"knocking the wind out of him"
and
"taking the wind out of their sails"
without it being clear which inspired the other.
[1] The New Practical Navigator: Being a Complete Epitome
of Navigation: to which are Added, All the...
By John Hamilton Moore -- p287
date reported to be 1807, but images not available
John Varela
(in article <lshmu2p1e79hgs7b9...@4ax.com>):
> I saw myself as a helpless, broken, cripple crumpled on the ground waiting
> for someone to come and find me.
Dammit, Tony, didn't I tell you the story of my son's father-in-law whose leg
slipped between the rungs of a ladder, leading to a double compound fracture
and the eventual loss of his leg at the knee? And still you go up on
ladders? At your age? Fie!
--
John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.