trout in milk ???
Alison J Wyld
(I may not have this quite right) comes from ?
I heard it twice last weekend. Both times the speaker was referring
to very strong circumstacial evidence.
Once was in a really naff film about cars shown on Sky, and I think the
other time was on Radio 4, but I'm not sure.
Thanks for any pointers.
Alison Wyld
Roland Hutchinson
>An interesting quote. Circumstantial evidence -- of what? All we know
>is that SOMETHING strange happened. But who put the trout there? Why
>in the milk?
It is circumstantial evidence that the dairy has been watering the
milk and cheating its customers. It was written back in the days when
cow owners customarily sold milk directly to end-users, and water came
out of lakes, not out of the tap.
Government regulations now govern the legally permissible levels of
trout in milk.
--
Roland Hutchinson Visiting Specialist/Early Music
Internet: rhut...@pilot.njin.net Department of Music
Bitnet: rhutchin@NJIN Montclair State College
Upper Montclair, NJ 07043
Michael Siemon
(Alison J Wyld) writes:
>Can anyone explain where the phrase "the trout's in the milk"
>(I may not have this quite right) comes from ?
>I heard it twice last weekend. Both times the speaker was referring
>to very strong circumstacial evidence.
Indeed. Dr. Johnson is reported (I presume by Boswell, but I am much
too lazy to check) to have said, "Some circumstantial evidence is very
strong, as when one finds a trout in the milk."
To be absurdly pedantic, I should note that one common petty crime in
pre-regulation days was watering the milk (a somewhat different matter
than that of watering the workers' beer. Oh, I am the man, the very
fat man that ...)
--
Michael L. Siemon "Where the corpse is, there the vultures
m...@panix.com will gather." -- Jesus of Nazareth
Roger Lustig
>(I may not have this quite right) comes from ?
>I heard it twice last weekend. Both times the speaker was referring
>to very strong circumstacial evidence.
>Once was in a really naff film about cars shown on Sky, and I think the
>other time was on Radio 4, but I'm not sure.
"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout
in the milk."
-- Henry David Thoreau, _Journal_, Nov. 11, 1854
Funny you should mention that; I quote the line in a forthcoming article
(on the authenticity of a Mozart piece). In fact, part of my work for
today is printing out the final draft and sending it out...
An interesting quote. Circumstantial evidence -- of what? All we know
is that SOMETHING strange happened. But who put the trout there? Why
in the milk?
Roger
Jane Philcox
>(I may not have this quite right) comes from ?
>I heard it twice last weekend. Both times the speaker was referring
>to very strong circumstacial evidence.
What a perfectly wonderful phrase! I immediately started inventing scenarios
in which it could be used. Such as, "Well, I didn't _see_ the cat raiding the
fridge, but the trout's in the milk, so I guess he did," or "The trout's in
the milk, so I guess the dreaded Chef-Thief has been here. We must have
disturbed him, or he would have left us an interesting dinner in exchange for
our video-camera."
The silly thing is that the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that I've
come across this phrase before in a book, but a long time ago, and I've got no
idea what the derivation is. Just the itchy feeling that I really should
know, and that it has something to do with cats. I do hope someone else has a
better memory.
>Once was in a really naff film about cars shown on Sky, and I think the
>other time was on Radio 4, but I'm not sure.
Will someone remind me what "naff" means?
Regards, Jane.
--
Plagiarize! Let no-one else's work evade your eyes.
Remember why the Good Lord made your eyes, and don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize!
Only be careful always to call it, please, "Research." (Tom Lehrer)
John Lavagnino
>"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout
>in the milk."
> -- Henry David Thoreau, _Journal_, Nov. 11, 1854
What is it evidence of? It's evidence that somebody watered down the
milk you bought. No FDA in those days to keep an eye on this sort of
thing.
Andrew Dunstan
rhut...@pilot.njin.net (Roland Hutchinson) writes:
|> In <14...@princeton.Princeton.EDU> ro...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger
Lustig) writes:
|>
|> >An interesting quote. Circumstantial evidence -- of what? All we know
|> >is that SOMETHING strange happened. But who put the trout there? Why
|> >in the milk?
|>
|> It is circumstantial evidence that the dairy has been watering the
|> milk and cheating its customers. It was written back in the days when
|> cow owners customarily sold milk directly to end-users, and water came
|> out of lakes, not out of the tap.
|>
|> Government regulations now govern the legally permissible levels of
|> trout in milk.
Of course! What a wonderful story! I should have realised. It makes
you understand how metaphors die.
Now, as a devotee of milk-fed veal, and of trout, I wa thinking to
myself how nice
milk-fed trout might taste. Maybe somebody will try it! :-)
#######################################################################
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# Department of Computer Science # but thinking makes it so. #
# University of Adelaide # #
# South Australia # - Shakespeare #
# net: and...@cs.adelaide.edu.au # #
#######################################################################
Alison J Wyld
>
>Will someone remind me what "naff" means?
>
Really, cringe-makingly awful. I guess its a britishism, or a scottishism.
In Glaswegian you can call someone a "wee nyaff" (if you're brave).
It usually refers to a really irritating unwashed small boy.
Alison
>Regards, Jane.
>--
Moss Madden
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moss Madden
"TO ME, ALL RELIGION IS JANET: JU...@UK.AC.LIVERPOOL
JUST A BUZZING IN THE EARS" INTERNET ETC: JU...@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
A J P TAYLOR (1990) UUCP: ...!MCVAX!UKC!LIVERPOOL.AC.UK!JU39
Moss Madden
Philcox) says:
>
>>Once was in a really naff film about cars shown on Sky, and I think the
>>other time was on Radio 4, but I'm not sure.
>
>Will someone remind me what "naff" means?
>
used to mean tatty, in poor taste etc etc
Graham Toal
>>Will someone remind me what "naff" means?
>>
>As recently identified here - Not Available For Fucking, but subsequently
>used to mean tatty, in poor taste etc etc
It's bad enough inventing etymology, but using this group as a reference is
not on. I can assure you that the acronymic derivation is not the consensus
of the group.
Common slang words very seldom have acronymic roots in fact; cf the recent
discussion on 'fuck'. This is simply just not one of the common mechanisms
by which words enter the language;t's strange though that it's one of the most
popularly invented folk-etymologies...
G
Luke Fitzgerald
writes:
>In article <91283.16...@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK> JU...@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Moss
Madden) writes:
>>>Will someone remind me what "naff" means?
>discussion on 'fuck'. This is simply just not one of the common mechanisms
>by which words enter the language;t's strange though that it's one of the most
>
>popularly invented folk-etymologies...
>
>G
I've a feeling that this one might in fact be acronymic at one remove.
Discussion with friends prompted by the original postings on 'naff' suggested
that it could originate from NAAFI. (Very briefly, this is or was the Navy,
Army, and Air Force Institute which served as a sort of mess for other ranks,
supplying - allegedly very bad - tea and beer.) The pejorative term 'NAAFI
tea' is a fair candidate for 'naff' in general.
Luke
Graham Toal
>I've a feeling that this one might in fact be acronymic at one remove.
>Discussion with friends prompted by the original postings on 'naff' suggested
>that it could originate from NAAFI. (Very briefly, this is or was the Navy,
>Army, and Air Force Institute which served as a sort of mess for other ranks,
>supplying - allegedly very bad - tea and beer.) The pejorative term 'NAAFI
>tea' is a fair candidate for 'naff' in general.
Sounds plausible, but that's the way of folk-etymology after all.
I can't claim to be definitive, but I did spend 4 years in the British Army,
and I never heard that usage. We had significantly more choice words for
NAAFI tea :-) Anyway, it's the wrong group for it to have developed in;
naff first started appearing among Sloanies, not squaddies.
Regards
Graham
PS "Sergeant-Major's Tea" or "NATO-Standard Tea" is tea made withat least
five sugars per cup, and condensed milk instead of ordinary.