From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

[Dingbat]

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
for it gives one occasion to inquire:
From an English usage perspective, what does that mean?

It says WILL, not SHALL.
So, it is to be freed by some party's will, not by some natural course of events.

Of what would Palestine be freed?

No part of the described area is free of Arabs. Gaza and PA ruled areas
are loaded with Arabs. Every part of Israel has at least some Arabs;
some parts, especially in Galilee, have only Arabs. The remainder of
Israel has Jews - Mizrahi & Sephardi, Ashkenazi and Palestinian Jews
in order of population size, and other ethnicities such as Druze that are
marginal in population.

Freed of Jews, perhaps? That, at any rate, is a popular understanding.
If so, the implication is: From river to sea, we will commit genocide of
Jews. Another Shoah/ Holocaust as it were. If that is the implication,
why not just say so? Why beat about the bush?

[S K]

ranjit is kissing jew Tochas - but if the newsgroup curse hasn't gone to the kibbutz in the sky, he will rebuke Ranjit for broaching this topic.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Dingbat wrote:

> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
>
> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> for it gives one occasion to inquire:
> From an English usage perspective, what does that mean?

It means that brevity and rhyme is more important than logical sense.
The words "Palestine" and "free" matter. The rest is just fill-in. And
don't ask me what "free" precisely means.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:

> Dingbat wrote:
>
>> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
>>
>> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,

How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?

>> for it gives one occasion to inquire:
>> From an English usage perspective, what does that mean?
>
> It means that brevity and rhyme is more important than logical sense.
> The words "Palestine" and "free" matter. The rest is just fill-in. And
> don't ask me what "free" precisely means.


--

Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[Dingbat]

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:09:19 PM UTC+5:30, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>
> > Dingbat wrote:
> >
> >> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
> >>
> >> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
> than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
> length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?

1) Long platforms introduce the English term 'Train stop' which I've heard
exactly once, in a description of Kharagpur station. Each platform has
multiple places for a train stop and each of those places is a train stop.
What would you call a train stop in UK English?

2) If a long stretch of kerb have multiple bus stops in sequence, what
collective term would you use for for all those bus stops together,
including a similar stretch of stops on the opposite side of the street?

[Silvano]

Dingbat hat am 30.11.2023 um 09:33 geschrieben:

> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:09:19 PM UTC+5:30, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>>
>>> Dingbat wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
>>>>
>>>> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
>> How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
>> than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
>> length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?
>
> 1) Long platforms introduce the English term 'Train stop' which I've heard
> exactly once, in a description of Kharagpur station. Each platform has
> multiple places for a train stop and each of those places is a train stop.
> What would you call a train stop in UK English?

I wonder if they have a name for that in UK English, if they don't have
such long platforms over there. In Germany, it does happen that very
short trains stop at longer platforms, although never as long as some
platforms in India. In that case, the platform (usually between two
rails) has separate numbers, e.g. Gleis* 5 and 6 (please insert the
appropriate name in your version of English) and letters dividing the
various parts, e.g. A to F.

Trains 5539 to Hamburg departs today from rail 5, B-D. First class in
part D.

> 2) If a long stretch of kerb have multiple bus stops in sequence, what
> collective term would you use for for all those bus stops together,
> including a similar stretch of stops on the opposite side of the street?

Terminus?

[Hibou]

Le 30/11/2023 à 08:33, Dingbat a écrit :
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:09:19 PM UTC+5:30, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
>>
>>> Dingbat wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
>>>>
>>>> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
>> How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
>> than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
>> length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?
>
> 1) Long platforms introduce the English term 'Train stop' which I've heard
> exactly once, in a description of Kharagpur station. Each platform has
> multiple places for a train stop and each of those places is a train stop.
> What would you call a train stop in UK English?

What's written on the signs, if memory serves, is "2 car stop", "4 car
stop", etc.. Most of our trains here are EMUs or DMUs, and lengths vary
from two to six carriages.

This one is at Chelmsford:
<https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49250789467_eaf3565aaf_b.jpg>

[Hibou]

Le 30/11/2023 à 10:17, Hibou a écrit :
>
> What's written on the signs, if memory serves, is "2 car stop", "4 car
> stop", etc.. Most of our trains here are EMUs or DMUs, and lengths vary
> from two to six carriages.

The Ghan, they're not.

[charles]

In article <uk9nf5$1amma$1...@dont-email.me>, Hibou

<vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Le 30/11/2023 à 08:33, Dingbat a écrit :

> > On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:09:19#PM UTC+5:30, Athel

> > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
> >>
> >>> Dingbat wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> >> How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
> >> than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
> >> length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?
> >
> > 1) Long platforms introduce the English term 'Train stop' which I've
> > heard exactly once, in a description of Kharagpur station. Each
> > platform has multiple places for a train stop and each of those places
> > is a train stop. What would you call a train stop in UK English?

> What's written on the signs, if memory serves, is "2 car stop", "4 car
> stop", etc.. Most of our trains here are EMUs or DMUs, and lengths vary
> from two to six carriages.

Here, in Surrey, trains are usually 8 carriages, occasionally 4, but most
platforms have been lengthed to take 10. I think the new trains (which our
line hasn't seen yet) are in multiples of 5.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Silvano wrote:

> I wonder if they have a name for that in UK English, if they don't have
> such long platforms over there. In Germany, it does happen that very
> short trains stop at longer platforms, although never as long as some
> platforms in India. In that case, the platform (usually between two
> rails) has separate numbers, e.g. Gleis* 5 and 6 (please insert the
> appropriate name in your version of English) and letters dividing the
> various parts, e.g. A to F.
>
> Trains 5539 to Hamburg departs today from rail 5, B-D. First class in
> part D.

The same system is used in Denmark.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Lucky you. In Germany there are big timetables displayed that tell you
not only the times but also the platforms in hard copy. If they need to
change anything they make an announcement.

In France the platform is a closely guarded secret until about 15
minutes (they claim 20 minutes, but that's a lie) before the train is
due to leave. I think it's the same in Spain.

>
> The same system is used in Denmark.


--

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 12:30:19 AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Dingbat wrote:
>
> > From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
> >
> > Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> > for it gives one occasion to inquire:
>
> > From an English usage perspective, what does that mean?
> It means that brevity and rhyme is more important than logical sense.
> The words "Palestine" and "free" matter. The rest is just fill-in.

No, "From the river to the sea" means not just the Palestinian territories,
but all of Israel.

> And don't ask me what "free" precisely means.

It means no Jewish state. Beyond that, people chanting the slogan
might be imagining somewhat different details.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 4:05:14 AM UTC-7, Dingbat wrote:
> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
>
> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> for it gives one occasion to inquire:
> From an English usage perspective, what does that mean?
>
> It says WILL, not SHALL.
> So, it is to be freed by some party's will, not by some natural course of events.

There's no will-shall distinction here. It doesn't exist at all in American English
in the third person (except maybe for a tiny minority, and in legal language),
and we've been told that the traditional distinctions are disappearing in the
U.K. I don't know about other countries.

> Of what would Palestine be freed?

...

> Freed of Jews, perhaps? That, at any rate, is a popular understanding.
> If so, the implication is: From river to sea, we will commit genocide of
> Jews. Another Shoah/ Holocaust as it were. If that is the implication,
> why not just say so? Why beat about the bush?

No doubt many of the people chanting it would accept an outcome where
most Israeli Jews left the region.

But I'm sure there's plenty of information on the Web about this.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Dingbat]

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:35:44 PM UTC+5:30, Silvano wrote:
> Dingbat hat am 30.11.2023 um 09:33 geschrieben:
> > On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:09:19 PM UTC+5:30, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2023-11-30 07:30:14 +0000, Bertel Lund Hansen said:
> >>
> >>> Dingbat wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank unnamed parties for polluting AUE with this slogan,
> >> How is it pollution? It's a lot closer to discussions of English usage
> >> than much of the garbage that Dingbat posts. What on earth has the
> >> length of platforms in Indian stations to do with English usage?
> >
> > 1) Long platforms introduce the English term 'Train stop' which I've heard
> > exactly once, in a description of Kharagpur station. Each platform has
> > multiple places for a train stop and each of those places is a train stop.
> > What would you call a train stop in UK English?
> I wonder if they have a name for that in UK English, if they don't have
> such long platforms over there. In Germany, it does happen that very
> short trains stop at longer platforms, although never as long as some
> platforms in India. In that case, the platform (usually between two
> rails) has separate numbers, e.g. Gleis* 5 and 6 (please insert the
> appropriate name in your version of English) and letters dividing the
> various parts, e.g. A to F.
>

Guntur station has 52 platforms. Allowing multiple trains per platform
reduces the number of platforms required. Grand Central Terminal has
more platforms than that and Tokyo has one station for commuter and
metro trains with a ungodly number of platforms but these are exceptions;
so many platforms are a rarity in the developed world.

>
> Trains 5539 to Hamburg departs today from rail 5, B-D. First class in
> part D.
> > 2) If a long stretch of kerb have multiple bus stops in sequence, what
> > collective term would you use for for all those bus stops together,
> > including a similar stretch of stops on the opposite side of the street?
> Terminus?

160 buses can stop at Chennai's bus terminus at one time. Inter-city
and intra-city buses exchange passengers there. In a bus terminus,
a bus stand is a spot for a single bus, so Chennai's bus terminus
has 160 stands. That's the kind of place that's called a bus terminus.

But on the street, a stretch of kerb with multiple bus stops can be
called a bus stand (though it doesn't have to be called that; it can
generically be called a bus stop) if it exchanges passengers traveling
on different arterial roads. Otherwise, it's called a bus stop even
though it has multiple places for buses to stop.