UK is abandoning the Metric system

[Lewis]

The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
bastards!

<https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>

--
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

[Peter Moylan]

On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:

> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> bastards!
>
> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>

An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Richard Heathfield]

On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>
>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>> bastards!
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>
> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.

I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Saturday, 18 September 2021 at 15:39:33 UTC+10, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
> >
> >> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> >> bastards!
> >>
> >> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
> >
> > An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
> I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in

> pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed? O

Mathematical.
What is the price of seven pounds and five ounces of apples at one shilling three and a half pence per pound?
Believe it or not, this was the kind of sums I had to in school thanks to an instrument of torture, Pendelbury's book on Arithmetic, written for British boys.

[Janet]

In article <slrnsk9vbu....@m1mini.local>, g.k...@kreme.dont-
email.me says...

>
> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> bastards!

Relax, you have nothing to worry about.

Janet.

[Richard Heathfield]

Beautifully done.

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 18 Sep 2021, at 06:39:28, Richard Heathfield posted:

>On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>> bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I
>>presume.
>
>I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
>If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
>if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
>pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?
>

That's an easy one. If allowed, it will prejudice the mental health of
Government Inspectors.
--
Paul

[occam]

On 18/09/2021 09:08, Arindam Banerjee wrote:

>
> Mathematical.
> What is the price of seven pounds and five ounces of apples at one shilling three and a half pence per pound?
> Believe it or not, this was the kind of sums I had to in school thanks to an instrument of torture, Pendelbury's book on Arithmetic, written for British boys.

Do you sometimes wonder why it was them who colonised your country, and
not the other was around, Banerjee?

[Richard Heathfield]

I don't see the problem. It's just multiplying fractions. Take nine
shillings and sixpence, Raymond; just over, Mrs Perkins, all right? See
you at the autumn fête tomorrow?

[Anand Mahadevan]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 3:08:51 AM UTC-4, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Saturday, 18 September 2021 at 15:39:33 UTC+10, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
> > >
> > >> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> > >> bastards!
> > >>
> > >> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
> > >
> > > An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
> > I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> > If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> > if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> > pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed? O
>
> Mathematical.
> What is the price of seven pounds and five ounces of apples at one shilling three and a half pence per pound?
> Believe it or not, this was the kind of sums I had to in school thanks to an instrument of torture, Pendelbury's book on Arithmetic, written for British boys.
> >

I wonder if we used the same book too- I remember it had questions involving oxtail soup. And when I did go to England in the 90's on work I saw the vending machines dispensed this "beverage" along with coffee and tea and hot chocolate.

[Arindam Banerjee]

The British, a race of pirates, became somewhat civilised after coming in contact with the Brahmins of India. Although not to the satisfaction of that well-known bunny-ah, Gandhi. High time that civilising process continued, as they are getting woefully americanised.

[Peter T. Daniels]

They did so several years ago. Brexit.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Hmm. What do you mean by "prejudice"? Seems like "damage" is what
you intended.

[Quinn C]

* Richard Heathfield:

> On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>> bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>
> I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?

My physicist friends love it when I sell them potatoes by the dyne,
because first, I'm not committing the fraud of misrepresenting force as
mass, and also the unit price is very low!

The point of regulating measures in sales is making prices comparable.
Canada still allows giving veg & meat prices per pound, but you need to
additionally indicate the price in metric units.

--
Please stop treating gender as though it were a set menu.
Gender is an a la carte arrangement.
-- S. Bear Bergman, The Field Guide to Transmasculine Creatures

[Lewis]

In message <si3khk$as2$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:

>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>> bastards!
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>

> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.

Sadly, not the case. Al Johnson (AKA Bloody Stupid Johnson) is evidently
quite serious.



--
"What's a Velvet Underground?" "You wouldn't like it." "Oh, Be-bop."

[Lewis]

We must be ever vigilant, least we are surpassed!



--
24 hour banking? I don't have time for that.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18/09/2021 06:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>> bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>
> I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?
>

I accept your premise.
Then I trust any and all systems of weights and measurements will be
given equal status under the law.
I shall invent my own, and change it whenever the customer catches on to
what I am doing.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18/09/2021 21:43, Lewis wrote:
> In message <si3khk$as2$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>> bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>
> Sadly, not the case. Al Johnson (AKA Bloody Stupid Johnson) is evidently
> quite serious.

As said in another context, "The situation is desperate, but not serious."

[Arindam Banerjee]

We used Pendlebury in the 60s. We were still using it in 1969 as I remember for I remember the teacher saying they went to the Moon using pounds and ounces etc. for units.
India became metric in thev60s but we still talked of annas and chataks

[Stoat]

On 18/09/21 5:39 pm, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>> bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>
> I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?
>

I followed the link and looked at the questions.
One required a conversion from litres to gallons.
The answer looked wrong. It turned out they were using US gallons.
An other question required a conversion from ml to pints. This time they
used imperial pints.

I can't decide whether it was humour or stupidity.

--brian


--
Wellington
New Zealand

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/09/21 07:43, Lewis wrote:
> In message <si3khk$as2$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>
>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country!
>>> Those bastards!
>>>
>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>
>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I
>> presume.
>
> Sadly, not the case. Al Johnson (AKA Bloody Stupid Johnson) is
> evidently quite serious.

One thing that puzzles me is that Terry Pratchett was writing about
Bloody Stupid Johnson long before I'd heard of Boris. How did he know?

[Richard Heathfield]

On 19/09/2021 01:27, Stoat wrote:
> On 18/09/21 5:39 pm, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
>>>> bastards!
>>>>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>>>
>>> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>>
>> I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual
>> freedom. If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and
>> ounces, and if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples
>> and spuds in pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not
>> be allowed?
>>
>
> I followed the link and looked at the questions.
> One required a conversion from litres to gallons.
> The answer looked wrong. It turned out they were using US gallons.

I find it hard to be surprised that journalists screwed up, even when
the error is 16%. If anything, I'm surprised they didn't get it even
more wrongerer.

> An other question required a conversion from ml to pints. This time they
> used imperial pints.
>
> I can't decide whether it was humour or stupidity.

"A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
that right.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
> that right.

Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>  accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>  that right.
>
> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.

"Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."

"A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>
>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>> that right.
>>
>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
>> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
>
> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
>
> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."

"The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."

[Richard Heathfield]

"1,802,617,500.000 furlongs per fortnight; it's not just a good idea,
it's the law."

[J. J. Lodder]

Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 18 September 2021 at 15:39:33 UTC+10, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
> > >
> > >> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> > >> bastards!
> > >>
> > >> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
> > >
> > > An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
> > I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> > If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> > if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> > pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed? O
>
> Mathematical.
> What is the price of seven pounds and five ounces of apples at one
> shilling three and a half pence per pound? Believe it or not, this was the
> kind of sums I had to in school thanks to an instrument of torture,
> Pendelbury's book on Arithmetic, written for British boys.

There are two parts here, money and units.
For some strange reason it was the USA that took the lead
in decimalising their currency, before revolutionary France even.
Yet for some strange reason they lagged behind all the others
when it came to units.

The reason probably was that despite all their proud independence
they were still almost completely dependent on Britain
for their foreign trade and manufactured products,

Jan

[Janet]

In article <slrnskcjrc....@m1mini.local>, g.k...@kreme.dont-
email.me says...

>
> In message <si3khk$as2$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> > On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
>
> >> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> >> bastards!
> >>
> >> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
>
> > An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
>
> Sadly, not the case.

The headline is tongue in cheek humour, but you failed to see the
joke.

Which is that Britain never abandoned Imperial measures, (and it's not
about to abandon metric measures). We will continue to use both, just as
we have done ever since the EU required UK to adopt metric measures.

It's rather like Boris's private life, which cheerfully accommodates
a dual system of wives and mistresses.


Janet

[J. J. Lodder]

Janet <nob...@hame.cock> wrote:

> In article <slrnskcjrc....@m1mini.local>, g.k...@kreme.dont-
> email.me says...
> >
> > In message <si3khk$as2$1...@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.inva
lid> wrote:
> > > On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
> >
> > >> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> > >> bastards!
> > >>
> > >> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
> >
> > > An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
> >
> > Sadly, not the case.
>
> The headline is tongue in cheek humour, but you failed to see the
> joke.
>
> Which is that Britain never abandoned Imperial measures, (and it's not
> about to abandon metric measures). We will continue to use both, just as
> we have done ever since the EU required UK to adopt metric measures.

That evil EU forcing metrication on the Brits by Euro-decree is a myth.
Britain had already gone mostly metric before it joined the EU.
Why? Because British scientist and British industry pushed for it.
The double standards cost a lot of money,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

The lenght of a wooden ruler is about one nanosecond,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 11:39:44 PM UTC-6, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >>
> >> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
> >> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
> >> that right.
> >
> > Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
> > Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.

> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."

"Two and a fifth pounds of jam has a mass of about a kilogram."

> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."

"Inches are from hell; meters are from heaven:
In inches, exactly 39.37."

OK, that one's unlikely to catch on.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 11:27:12 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> * Richard Heathfield:
> > On 18/09/2021 02:56, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 18/09/21 07:41, Lewis wrote:
> >>
> >>> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country! Those
> >>> bastards!
> >>>
> >>> <https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1438548409636556800>
> >>
> >> An example of the traditional British tongue-in-cheek humour, I presume.
> >
> > I trust it's also an example of British respect for individual freedom.
> > If a business wants to sell apples and spuds in pounds and ounces, and
> > if that business can find customers who wish to buy apples and spuds in
> > pounds and ounces, on what possible grounds should it not be allowed?

> My physicist friends love it when I sell them potatoes by the dyne,
> because first, I'm not committing the fraud of misrepresenting force as
> mass, and also the unit price is very low!

...

I'd say that when you're selling potatoes, you're selling by mass, not weight.
Your scale uses gravity, but it was calibrated with standard masses. As I
tell my students, if you shipped the sack to Santa Fe, where the acceleration
of gravity is about 9.79 m/s^2, you wouldn't be ripping anyone off.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Lewis]

"Boris" Johnson is a myth. His first name is Alexander and he is known
as "Al". Boris is entirely a fictional character he created to appeal to
the chavs and neds of the Tories.


--
Rumour is information distilled so finely that it can filter through
anything. It does not need doors and windows -- sometimes it does
not need people. It can exist free and wild, running from ear to
ear without ever touching lips.

[Lewis]

Depends on the pint. A litre of water is also two pints, plus a shot.

--
Like so many Americans, she was trying to construct a life that
made sense from things she found in gift shops.

[Ken Blake]

I was about to say that's completely wrong until I realized you were
talking about imperial pints, not those we use here in the US.


--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

On 9/18/2021 10:28 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."

I remember some 30 years or so ago attending a talk given by an IBM
employee to about four or five of us. He asked us if we knew how long a
nanosecond was.


I said "a billionth of a second." He said "nope, it's this long" and
held his hands about 12 inches apart.

His talk was about computers getting faster and why they had to get
smaller to get faster.


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:16:12 AM UTC-4, Lewis wrote:

> "Boris" Johnson is a myth. His first name is Alexander and he is known
> as "Al". Boris is entirely a fictional character he created to appeal to
> the chavs and neds of the Tories.

I wonder where he got that bit of misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

Does he think Benjamin Britten should be called Edward?

[Lewis]

In message <iqp5it...@mid.individual.net> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 9/18/2021 10:28 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."

> I remember some 30 years or so ago attending a talk given by an IBM
> employee to about four or five of us. He asked us if we knew how long a
> nanosecond was.


> I said "a billionth of a second." He said "nope, it's this long" and
> held his hands about 12 inches apart.

Should have been closer to 29.98cm! :)

> His talk was about computers getting faster and why they had to get
> smaller to get faster.

The Cray MXP was curved so that the wires would all be the same length.

--
Boy hangs out with Hitler
(Jojo Rabbit)

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

Also, it's not /exactly/ exactly (although probably good enough for all
non-scientific purposes.)

--
Novels and romances ... when habitually indulged in, exert a
disastrous influence on the nervous system, sufficient to explain
that frequency of hysteria and nervous disease which we find
among the highest classes. -- E.J. Tilt

[Tony Cooper]

There is some indication that Lewis's statement is not exactly a myth.
The _Express_ says:

"But the man usually referred to just by his first name, or his
nickname from his time as London mayor, ‘BoJo’, was in fact christened
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

The ‘de Pfeffel’ part of the name has been passed down from his
ancestor Baron Charles de Pfeffel, a German aristocrat.

Allegedly, his family and friends just call him ‘Al’, but he prefers
Boris for his public persona."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1157220/boris-johnson-name-full-real-name-prime-minister-Boris-Johnson-latest-news

Although, I hesitate to a) acknowledge the _Express_ as a reputable
source, and b) doubt if Johnson has friends.

--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:13:15 -0400
Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * Jerry Friedman:
>
> > On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 11:39:44 PM UTC-6, Richard
> > Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to
> >>>> remember, and accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought
> >>>> to be able to get that right.
> >>>
> >>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a
> >>> quarter". Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the
> >>> world around.
> >
> >> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
> >
> > "Two and a fifth pounds of jam has a mass of about a kilogram."
> >
> >> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you
> >> see."
> >
> > "Inches are from hell; meters are from heaven:
> > In inches, exactly 39.37."
> >
> > OK, that one's unlikely to catch on.
>
> Also, it's not /exactly/ exactly (although probably good enough for
> all non-scientific purposes.)
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch#Equivalents

[runs "calculator", cant C&P, has to type answer in in full]

1000/25.4 gives 39.37007874015748031496062992126

So roughly:

39.37007874015748031496063
:-)
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

A pint's nowhere near a pint, the world round

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint#Other_pints

(The Belgians get very short-changed [usage?])

[J. J. Lodder]

That's not a pint, dat is een pintje,

Jan

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 17:46:50 -0000 (UTC)
Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <iqp5it...@mid.individual.net> Ken Blake
> <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> > On 9/18/2021 10:28 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> >> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>
> > I remember some 30 years or so ago attending a talk given by an IBM
> > employee to about four or five of us. He asked us if we knew how
> > long a nanosecond was.
>
>
> > I said "a billionth of a second." He said "nope, it's this long"
> > and held his hands about 12 inches apart.
>
> Should have been closer to 29.98cm! :)
>
> > His talk was about computers getting faster and why they had to get
> > smaller to get faster.
>

Rear Admiral Grace Hopper used to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eyFDBPk4Yw

better quality video reprise on Letterman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGTEUtS5H7I&t=1m28s

> The Cray MXP was curved so that the wires would all be the same
> length.
>


--

Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 22:03:42 +0200
nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:18:14 -0000 (UTC)
> > Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <si65pg$4un$1...@dont-email.me> Richard Heathfield
> > > <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

[]

> > >
> > > > "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to
> > > > remember, and accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist
> > > > ought to be able to get that right.
> > >
> > > Depends on the pint. A litre of water is also two pints, plus a
> > > shot.
> > >
> > A pint's nowhere near a pint, the world round
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint#Other_pints
> >
> > (The Belgians get very short-changed [usage?])
>
> That's not a pint, dat is een pintje,
>

All I know is that it appears on that wikiparticle; feel free to update it.

[Sam Plusnet]

Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might get
quite confused.

[Sam Plusnet]

Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?

They might have become collectable, but would be too easy to counterfeit
I suppose.

[Blueshirt]

On 17/09/2021 21:41, Lewis wrote:
> The UK is trying to take the USA's crown as stupidest country!

They voted to leave the European Union and then voted to elect Boris
Johnson & Co in to power again... so they are well on their way to that
honour already!

[Lewis]

In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?

Yes. One nanosecond.

--
So what do you say? Wanna go back in time, save my friends, and unfuck history
for old time’s sack?

[Peter Moylan]

A pint's a pound the world around ... for sufficiently small values of
"world".

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might get
> quite confused.

My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s -- had one of those.
I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm wondering what became of it. Some of his
prewar tools were donated to the local technical school as curiosities or
museum pieces, but that folding measuring stick was still in the family not
too many years ago, and might still be.

The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok, meaning thumbstick.

bill

[Peter Moylan]

Or you might also translate that as "rule of thumb".

Since those folding rulers are approximately one inch (or one thumb)
wide, did men also use them to beat their wives?

[Quinn C]

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

And it says in the following text:

| In Flanders, the word pintje, meaning 'little pint', refers only to a
| 250 ml glass of lager.

And no, this wasn't added since your post above.
--
CW: Historical misogyny
... gurve nirentr fvmr erznvaf fb zhpu fznyyre; fb gung gur fhz
gbgny bs sbbq pbairegrq vagb gubhtug ol jbzra pna arire rdhny
[gung bs] zra. Vg sbyybjf gurersber, gung zra jvyy nyjnlf guvax
zber guna jbzra. -- M.A. Hardaker in Popular Science (1881)

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 13:32:43 +1100
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 20/09/21 02:53, Ken Blake wrote:
> > On 9/18/2021 7:03 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
> >> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember,
> >> and accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able
> >> to get that right.
> >
> > I was about to say that's completely wrong until I realized you were
> > talking about imperial pints, not those we use here in the US.
>
> A pint's a pound the world around ... for sufficiently small values of
> "world".

Let's not Serious about it.

[J. J. Lodder]

Of course not, they fold.
There is the 'el' for that,
a wooden stick with a brass mark on it. (English ell)

You may find the old expression,
(a Wellerism, if the Dutch had known about him)
"Alles met mate, zei de kleermaker, en hij sloeg zijn vrouw met de el"

Lit. Everything with a measure, said the carpenter,
and he beat his wife with the ell.
A Wellerism, because the usual meaning of 'alles met mate'
is 'everything in moderation',

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> > Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might get
> > quite confused.
>
> My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s -- had one of
> those. I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm wondering what became of it.
> Some of his prewar tools were donated to the local technical school as
> curiosities or museum pieces, but that folding measuring stick was still
> in the family not too many years ago, and might still be.

'Duimstokken' are still sold new.
Real carpenters still use them.

> The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok, meaning thumbstick.

A 'duim' -is- an inch, and an inch was a thumb.
The Dutch had 'duimen' without having kings.
BTW, those crazy Brits and their newly acquired 'metric only' fanatism
(and corresponding 'metric martyrs')
are a bit ridiculous, with their zeal of the newly converted.

If you buy a 'duimstok' or a tape rule, or calipers in the Netherlands
it may have dual markings, for both inches and cm,
Yet the Netherlands were the second country in the world to go metric,
long before France.

Or maybe the Dutch are more tolerant in general,

Jan

[Andy Leighton]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:43:03 +0200, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> If you buy a 'duimstok' or a tape rule, or calipers in the Netherlands
> it may have dual markings, for both inches and cm,
> Yet the Netherlands were the second country in the world to go metric,
> long before France.
>
> Or maybe the Dutch are more tolerant in general,

Actually the UK is pretty tolerant too. Your rule or tape or
calipers or weighing machine can have both metric and imperial.
You have to show the price in metric but can also convert that to
imperial (for example £4.40/kg or £2/lb - close enough for fruit
& veg).

In every case the metric martyrs either did not use weighing
equipment that complied with the law (in that it didn't use metric)
or did not show the price in metric. It is perfectly legal to
use imperial units as supplementary indicators alongside the
primary metric units.

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

[J. J. Lodder]

Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:43:03 +0200, J. J. Lodder:

> > If you buy a 'duimstok' or a tape rule, or calipers in the Netherlands
> > it may have dual markings, for both inches and cm,
> > Yet the Netherlands were the second country in the world to go metric,
> > long before France.
> >
> > Or maybe the Dutch are more tolerant in general,
>
> Actually the UK is pretty tolerant too. Your rule or tape or
> calipers or weighing machine can have both metric and imperial.
> You have to show the price in metric but can also convert that to
> imperial (for example £4.40/kg or £2/lb - close enough for fruit
> & veg).
>
> In every case the metric martyrs either did not use weighing
> equipment that complied with the law (in that it didn't use metric)
> or did not show the price in metric. It is perfectly legal to
> use imperial units as supplementary indicators alongside the
> primary metric units.

That applies in the Netherlands too,
except that no grocer or cheese merchant
will insist on using uncalibrated measures.
The rulers and balances that you buy in a shop
will be marked with 'not for trade' or something like that.
For legal sales a calibrated measuring instrument is required.

Here is a museum example for a weight (note the 5 ons = 500 gram)
<https://museum.frl/archief/FriesLandbouwmuseum/18-0164.jpg>
Each stamped letter (the same as for silver hallmarks)
represents a verification by an inspector of the correct weight.

But surely it was not legal in pre-metrication Britain
to use uncalibrated measures?

What I did see here were stories
about the Brits going about it
in their characteristic British way,
with excessive bureaucracy,
and with excessively cumbersome and costly procedures. [1]

Brexit will not help with this,

Jan

[1] Providing certification has been privatised.
Only the central standards institute is still government funded.
The cheese merchant buys a certification sticker for his scales
from a recognised service provider.

[Andy Leighton]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 13:12:13 +0200, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 11:43:03 +0200, J. J. Lodder:
>> > If you buy a 'duimstok' or a tape rule, or calipers in the Netherlands
>> > it may have dual markings, for both inches and cm,
>> > Yet the Netherlands were the second country in the world to go metric,
>> > long before France.
>> >
>> > Or maybe the Dutch are more tolerant in general,
>>
>> Actually the UK is pretty tolerant too. Your rule or tape or
>> calipers or weighing machine can have both metric and imperial.
>> You have to show the price in metric but can also convert that to

>> imperial (for example £4.40/kg or £2/lb - close enough for fruit

>> & veg).
>>
>> In every case the metric martyrs either did not use weighing
>> equipment that complied with the law (in that it didn't use metric)
>> or did not show the price in metric. It is perfectly legal to
>> use imperial units as supplementary indicators alongside the
>> primary metric units.
>
> That applies in the Netherlands too,
> except that no grocer or cheese merchant
> will insist on using uncalibrated measures.
> The rulers and balances that you buy in a shop
> will be marked with 'not for trade' or something like that.
> For legal sales a calibrated measuring instrument is required.
>
> Here is a museum example for a weight (note the 5 ons = 500 gram)
><https://museum.frl/archief/FriesLandbouwmuseum/18-0164.jpg>
> Each stamped letter (the same as for silver hallmarks)
> represents a verification by an inspector of the correct weight.
>
> But surely it was not legal in pre-metrication Britain
> to use uncalibrated measures?

No it was exactly the same situation - every scale had to
be calibrated and legal.

[Adam Funk]

On 2021-09-20, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Here is a museum example for a weight (note the 5 ons = 500 gram)
><https://museum.frl/archief/FriesLandbouwmuseum/18-0164.jpg>
> Each stamped letter (the same as for silver hallmarks)
> represents a verification by an inspector of the correct weight.

Historic curiosity:

In August 1943, the sales team at Gallimard noticed something
odd. The publisher’s new 700-page philosophical tome was selling
unexpectedly well. Was it because Jean-Paul Sartre’s thoughts on
freedom and responsibility in Being and Nothingness resonated with
Parisians enduring Nazi occupation? Not quite. It was because the
book weighed exactly one kilogram and so was a perfect substitute
for copper weights, which had been sold on the black market or
melted down for ammunition.

<https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/11/left-bank-agnes-poirier-review-existentialism-jazz-paris-1940s>

(I certainly wouldn't want to have to *read* a kilo of Sartre.)


--
When Chayefsky created Howard Beale, could he have imagined
Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, and the World Wrestling
Federation? ---Roger Ebert

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/09/21 16:03, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might
> >> get quite confused.
> >
> > My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s -- had one
> > of those. I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm wondering what became
> > of it. Some of his prewar tools were donated to the local technical
> > school as curiosities or museum pieces, but that folding measuring
> > stick was still in the family not too many years ago, and might still
> > be.
> >
> > The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok, meaning
> > thumbstick.

> Or you might also translate that as "rule of thumb".

I 'm not aware of an equivalent Dutch expression, at least not one
that involves thumbs.

>
> Since those folding rulers are approximately one inch (or one thumb)
> wide, did men also use them to beat their wives?

They were about that wide when folded up. Fully extended, they were only
about a centimeter wide.

bill

[Sam Plusnet]

The difference was that the calibration of those scales (and weights)
had now to be metric. Ignoring that requirement was the source of
illegality.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>
> Yes. One nanosecond.
>

But what's that in old money?

[J. J. Lodder]

bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 20/09/21 16:03, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might
> > >> get quite confused.
> > >
> > > My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s -- had one
> > > of those. I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm wondering what became
> > > of it. Some of his prewar tools were donated to the local technical
> > > school as curiosities or museum pieces, but that folding measuring
> > > stick was still in the family not too many years ago, and might still
> > > be.
> > >
> > > The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok, meaning
> > > thumbstick.
>
> > Or you might also translate that as "rule of thumb".
>
> I 'm not aware of an equivalent Dutch expression, at least not one
> that involves thumbs.

The correct translation is 'vuistregel' (lit. fist rule)

No idea why,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:

> > In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet:

> >> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
> >
> > Yes. One nanosecond.
> >
> But what's that in old money?

One short foot,

Jan

[Snidely]

J. J. Lodder explained :

A bit less than five short blocks.

/dps

--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/09/21 06:37, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 20/09/21 16:03, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam Plusnet
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers might
>>>> get quite confused.
>>>
>>> My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s -- had one
>>> of those. I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm wondering what became
>>> of it. Some of his prewar tools were donated to the local technical
>>> school as curiosities or museum pieces, but that folding measuring
>>> stick was still in the family not too many years ago, and might still
>>> be.
>>>
>>> The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok, meaning
>>> thumbstick.
>
>> Or you might also translate that as "rule of thumb".
>
> I 'm not aware of an equivalent Dutch expression, at least not one
> that involves thumbs.

Sorry, I was punning in English. A measuring stick is often called a "rule".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think we always had seconds. Even the USA, Burma and Liberia have seconds.


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/09/21 16:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 20:43:12 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
>> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet
>>> <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>>>
>>> Yes. One nanosecond.
>>>
>> But what's that in old money?
>
> I think we always had seconds. Even the USA, Burma and Liberia have
> seconds.

There are some countries where people don't even get a proper first course.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 21/09/2021 06:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 20:43:12 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
>> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet
>>> <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>>>
>>> Yes. One nanosecond.
>>>
>> But what's that in old money?
>
> I think we always had seconds. Even the USA, Burma and Liberia have
> seconds.

It depends on what you mean by "had". And "always".

It's been less than 400 years - 1656 - since we've had a clock capable
of counting seconds with anything approaching accuracy.

If we go much further back, the Babylonians divided the day into sixty
small divisions of first degree each (the concept surviving into Roman
times as pars minuta prima), and further divided those into sixty small
divisions of second degree (pars minuta secunda).

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Adam Funk]

Or a "ruler" but some people will argue about that.


--
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world,
if men were only capable of staying awake long enough to let the idea
soak in. ---Henry Miller

[J. J. Lodder]

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 21/09/2021 06:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2021-09-20 20:43:12 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
> >
> >> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
> >>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet
> >>> <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
> >>>
> >>> Yes. One nanosecond.
> >>>
> >> But what's that in old money?
> >
> > I think we always had seconds. Even the USA, Burma and Liberia have
> > seconds.
>
> It depends on what you mean by "had". And "always".
>
> It's been less than 400 years - 1656 - since we've had a clock capable
> of counting seconds with anything approaching accuracy.
>
> If we go much further back, the Babylonians divided the day into sixty
> small divisions of first degree each (the concept surviving into Roman
> times as pars minuta prima), and further divided those into sixty small
> divisions of second degree (pars minuta secunda).

The earth rotates fifteen degrees per hour,
so 15 minutes (arc) per minute (time),
so 15 seconds (arc) per second (time).
Those with good eyesight can resolve about 30 seconds (arc),
so those Babylonians certainly needed their seconds,

Jan

[charles]

In article <si6lap$8ht$1...@dont-email.me>,
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:

> >> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
> >>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
> >>> that right.
> >>

> >> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
> >> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
> >
> > "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
> >
> > "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."

> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."

and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/09/21 19:43, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2021-09-21, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 21/09/21 06:37, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 20/09/21 16:03, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 1:20:23 PM UTC-7, Sam
>>>>> Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Carpenters who still use one of those long folding rulers
>>>>>> might get quite confused.
>>>>>
>>>>> My father -- who started working at carpentry in the 1920s --
>>>>> had one of those. I used to enjoy playing with it. I'm
>>>>> wondering what became of it. Some of his prewar tools were
>>>>> donated to the local technical school as curiosities or
>>>>> museum pieces, but that folding measuring stick was still in
>>>>> the family not too many years ago, and might still be.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Dutch name for it just came back to me: Duimstok,
>>>>> meaning thumbstick.
>>>
>>>> Or you might also translate that as "rule of thumb".
>>>
>>> I 'm not aware of an equivalent Dutch expression, at least not
>>> one that involves thumbs.
>>
>> Sorry, I was punning in English. A measuring stick is often called
>> a "rule".
>
> Or a "ruler" but some people will argue about that.

I use "ruler" for the sort of thing we used at school. I've mislaid my
wooden 30cm ruler, but I have a plastic equivalent in my desk drawer,
and I also call that a ruler.

But it seems that the rules (!) change when it comes to metalwork and
carpentry. The one in my toolbox is definitely a "steel rule", and the
folding one that we've been discussing is usually called a "carpenter's
rule", in my experience.

The semi-flexible one in another desk drawer is labelled "5M tape
measure" - it's the kind that is made of metal and rolls up - but I'm
not sure about that term. For me, a tape measure is made of cloth and
used by dressmakers.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-09-21 08:50:05 +0000, charles said:

> In article <si6lap$8ht$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>>>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>>>> that right.
>>>>
>>>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
>>>> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
>>>
>>> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
>>>
>>> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."
>
>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>
> and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year

I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
about 1O L fuel per 100 km. That is an area, and you could convert it
to acres if you wished: what is it the area _of_?

[J. J. Lodder]

And again, that's not an area, it is a mistake,

Jan

[Adam Funk]

The cross-section of the (retracting!) supply hose needed to keep the
fuel level in the tank the same at the beginning and end of the
journey over which that kilométrage is measured?


--
I heard that Hans Christian Andersen lifted the title for "The Little
Mermaid" off a Red Lobster Menu. ---Bucky Katt

[Adam Funk]

They're both "tape measures" to me.


--
There are some things that are not sayable. That's why
we have art. ---Leonora Carrington

[Richard Heathfield]

Don't do it! You'll lose too much to evaporation.

100km/10l = 10km/l = 10000m/0.001m^3 = 10/mm^2.

So your fuel consumption is 10 per mm^2. Or, if you prefer, 0.1 mm^2.

What does this mean? Take a pipe of that internal cross-sectional area
(if a circular cross section, it will have a radius of 178 microns).
Fill the pipe with petrol.

How long is the pipe? That's how far you can drive on a pipeful of
petrol, or putting it another way that's how much petrol it takes to
drive the length of the pipe. So bigger numbers/fatter pipes are worse
because they take more petrol to fill them..

[Quinn C]

* Adam Funk:

> On 2021-09-21, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> Sorry, I was punning in English. A measuring stick is often called a "rule".
>
> Or a "ruler" but some people will argue about that.

Those people need to elect a ruler to set the rules.

--
- There's someone here wanting to audition. - OK, Who is he?
- Well, it's not exactly a he. - OK, Who is she?
- Well, it's not exactly a she. ... it's sort of a they.
- You mean there's more than one? - Not really.
- Good grief, it's a triple-header.
-> <https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Tom,_Dick,_and_Harry>

[Quinn C]

* J. J. Lodder:

Some lengths were measured in fists, I imagine.

German has both "Faustregel" (like Dutch) and "Daumenregel" (like
English). People also enjoy saying "Pi mal Daumen" ("pi times thumb") as
an adverbial version.

--
- History is full of lies.
- Ain't that the truth.
-- Andromeda, S04E12

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021, at 14:05:10, Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk>
posted:

I view it as the necessary cross-sectional area of the mouth of the
scoop dipping into the fuel-filled trough over which the vehicle is
travelling. You know it makes sense.
--
Paul

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-09-21 14:32:02 +0000, Paul Wolff said:

> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021, at 14:05:10, Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> posted:
>> On 21/09/2021 13:22, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-21 08:50:05 +0000, charles said:
>>>
>>>> In article <si6lap$8ht$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>    Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>>>>>>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>>>>>>> that right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
>>>>>>> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."
>>>>
>>>>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>>>>
>>>> and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year
>>> I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
>>> about 1O L fuel per 100 km. That is an area, and you could convert it
>>> to acres if you wished: what is it the area _of_?
>>
>> Don't do it! You'll lose too much to evaporation.
>>
>> 100km/10l = 10km/l = 10000m/0.001m^3 = 10/mm^2.
>>
>> So your fuel consumption is 10 per mm^2. Or, if you prefer, 0.1 mm^2.

So, about 0.00000000025 acre, on the small size for a farmer's field.

>>
>> What does this mean? Take a pipe of that internal cross-sectional area
>> (if a circular cross section, it will have a radius of 178 microns).
>> Fill the pipe with petrol.
>>
>> How long is the pipe? That's how far you can drive on a pipeful of
>> petrol, or putting it another way that's how much petrol it takes to
>> drive the length of the pipe. So bigger numbers/fatter pipes are worse
>> because they take more petrol to fill them..
>>
> I view it as the necessary cross-sectional area of the mouth of the
> scoop dipping into the fuel-filled trough over which the vehicle is
> travelling. You know it makes sense.


--

[Richard Heathfield]

On 21/09/2021 15:46, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

<snip>

>
> So, about 0.00000000025 acre, on the small size for a farmer's field.

After Inheritance Tax, that's about right.

[Adam Funk]

So like a live third rail system but more dangero^W exciting?


--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

[Ken Blake]

On 9/21/2021 5:22 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-09-21 08:50:05 +0000, charles said:
>
>> In article <si6lap$8ht$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>>>>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>>>>> that right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
>>>>> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
>>>>
>>>> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
>>>>
>>>> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."
>>
>>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>>
>> and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year
>
> I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
> about 1O L fuel per 100 km.

That sounds about right, but it seems to me like an odd way to say it. I
would say "about .1 liters per km."


> That is an area,


An area? Why do you say that?

> and you could convert it
> to acres if you wished: what is it the area _of_?
>
>


--

Ken

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:25:14 AM UTC-6, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/21/2021 5:22 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

...

> > I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
> > about 1O L fuel per 100 km.

> That sounds about right, but it seems to me like an odd way to say it. I
> would say "about .1 liters per km."
>
>
> > That is an area,
>
>
> An area? Why do you say that?

If you convert both L and km to meters, you get 0.01 m^3 / 100,000 m,
which in simplest form is 10^-7 m^2, an area. But a liter-per-km number
is much more relevant to the real situation than the area of an imaginary
scoop running through an imaginary trough.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 4:54:36 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> > If we go much further back, the Babylonians divided the day into sixty
> > small divisions of first degree each (the concept surviving into Roman
> > times as pars minuta prima), and further divided those into sixty small
> > divisions of second degree (pars minuta secunda).
>
> The earth rotates fifteen degrees per hour,
> so 15 minutes (arc) per minute (time),
> so 15 seconds (arc) per second (time).
> Those with good eyesight can resolve about 30 seconds (arc),
> so those Babylonians certainly needed their seconds,

If the pattern on the ground/pavement is properly detailed,
and the surface is smooth, I can see the progress of a shadow
across it.

[J. J. Lodder]

Because he misunderstands units and dimensions,

Jan

[Lewis]

In message <An62J.73855$Nog....@fx11.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>>
>> Yes. One nanosecond.
>>
> But what's that in old money?

take the speed of light, and divide.

29.967 cn, or thereabouts. I suspect here nano seconds did not have
1/1000th of a cm in precision, however.


--
'There's stranger people in this world than Corporal Nobbs, my lad.'
Carrot's expression slid into a rictus of intrigued horror.
'Gosh.'

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-09-21 15:25:09 +0000, Ken Blake said:

> On 9/21/2021 5:22 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2021-09-21 08:50:05 +0000, charles said:
>>
>>> In article <si6lap$8ht$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 19/09/21 16:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 19/09/2021 02:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/09/21 13:03, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters." Easy to remember, and
>>>>>>> accurate to within 0.554%. Even a journalist ought to be able to get
>>>>>>> that right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another useful mnemonic: "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter".
>>>>>> Except, of course, in worlds where a pint's a pound the world around.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Two and a quarter pounds of jam weighs about a kilogram."
>>>>>
>>>>> "A metre measures three foot three; it's longer than a yard, you see."
>>>
>>>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>>>
>>> and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year
>>
>> I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
>> about 1O L fuel per 100 km.
>
>
> That sounds about right, but it seems to me like an odd way to say it.
> I would say "about .1 liters per km."

Maybe, but that's what they say. When I were a lad we measured
consumption as miles per gallon and I have really got used to the
reciprocal.

>
>
>> That is an area,
>
>
> An area? Why do you say that?

Because it's a volume divided by a length. However, Jan seems to think
it's wrong to call it that, but he doesn't say why.

>
>
>> and you could convert it
>> to acres if you wished: what is it the area _of_?


--

[J. J. Lodder]

For the umpteenth time, here in AUE?
Units should be given in terms of what is really measured,
so liter/100km, or if prefer, km/liter.
Dimensions OTOH tell you how units relate to
the chosen fundamental units, [L], [T], and [M]
so in this case [L]^2, or [L]^-2
Dividing out units, thereby hiding what it was all about
is, like I said, just a mistake.

No laws of physics involved, just common sense,

Jan

[Paul Wolff]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021, at 20:38:33, J. J. Lodder posted:

>Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-21 15:25:09 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>> > On 9/21/2021 5:22 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> >> On 2021-09-21 08:50:05 +0000, charles said:

>> >>> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "The speed of light is one wooden ruler per nanosecond."
>> >>>
>> >>> and viscosity is measured in Acres per Year
>> >>
>> >> I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will consume
>> >> about 1O L fuel per 100 km.
>> >
>> > That sounds about right, but it seems to me like an odd way to say it.
>> > I would say "about .1 liters per km."
>>
>> Maybe, but that's what they say. When I were a lad we measured
>> consumption as miles per gallon and I have really got used to the
>> reciprocal.
>> >
>> >> That is an area,
>> >
>> > An area? Why do you say that?
>>
>> Because it's a volume divided by a length. However, Jan seems to think
>> it's wrong to call it that, but he doesn't say why.
>
>For the umpteenth time, here in AUE?
>Units should be given in terms of what is really measured,
>so liter/100km, or if prefer, km/liter.
>Dimensions OTOH tell you how units relate to
>the chosen fundamental units, [L], [T], and [M]
>so in this case [L]^2, or [L]^-2
>Dividing out units, thereby hiding what it was all about
>is, like I said, just a mistake.
>
>No laws of physics involved, just common sense,
>

OTOH, it's one of those games people play - especially games that
educated people with imagination like playing, and particularly aueers
(spell that how you will).
--
Paul

[Sam Plusnet]

On 21/09/2021 06:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 20:43:12 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>

>> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet
>>> <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>>>
>>> Yes. One nanosecond.
>>>
>> But what's that in old money?
>

> I think we always had seconds. Even the USA, Burma and Liberia have
> seconds.
>
>

Does that imply a duel standard?
I shall delope.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 21/09/2021 18:06, Lewis wrote:
> In message <An62J.73855$Nog....@fx11.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> On 19/09/2021 22:42, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <x%M1J.131330$Ag5b....@fx07.ams1> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone know the exact length of one of Grace Hopper's nanoseconds?
>>>
>>> Yes. One nanosecond.
>>>
>> But what's that in old money?
>
> take the speed of light, and divide.
>
> 29.967 cn, or thereabouts. I suspect here nano seconds did not have
> 1/1000th of a cm in precision, however.
>
>

But your piece of wire is (presumably) in air & so needs to be based
upon the velocity of light in air.
Throw it into some water and it is hopelessly inaccurate.

[Sam Plusnet]

Yes, but doing it that way is a real drag.

[Peter Moylan]

In air the needed correction is small, compared to some other media.

> Throw it into some water and it is hopelessly inaccurate.

Put your wiring on a printed circuit board and it's even worse.
Apparently it's hard to find suitable materials that have low
permittivity. Coaxial cables do better, and uninsulated wire pairs even
better. The speed of light in a waveguide can be quite low.

A rule of thumb I have used in the past is that the real-life speed of
electrical signals is about two thirds the speed in vacuum, but that's
at the optimistic end of the range. (But it wasn't too bad for the
cables we used in student labs.) It depends on the dielectric between
the two conductors. In computer applications, that means between the
wiring layer and the earth plane. In integrated circuits, it means the
undoped silicon. Relative permittivity of silicon is 11.68, which is
really high.

In brief, modern computer nanoseconds are very different from Grace
Hopper nanoseconds.

[Peter Moylan]

That's the explanation I know, but of course it ignores friction. In
practice turbulence will make your scoop hopelessly inefficient.

[Peter Moylan]

On 22/09/21 05:38, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Units should be given in terms of what is really measured, so
> liter/100km, or if prefer, km/liter. Dimensions OTOH tell you how
> units relate to the chosen fundamental units, [L], [T], and [M] so in
> this case [L]^2, or [L]^-2 Dividing out units, thereby hiding what it
> was all about is, like I said, just a mistake.
>
> No laws of physics involved, just common sense,

It is, however, a valuable tool taught to students as a check for errors
in their calculations. And not only students; I've sometimes caught my
own errors that way. If an equation is wrong dimensionally, you've
screwed up somewhere.

[Peter Moylan]

On 22/09/21 05:04, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-09-21 15:25:09 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>> On 9/21/2021 5:22 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>>> I've asked this before, but no matter. A typical small car will
>>> consume about 1O L fuel per 100 km.
>>
>> That sounds about right, but it seems to me like an odd way to say
>> it. I would say "about .1 liters per km."
>
> Maybe, but that's what they say. When I were a lad we measured
> consumption as miles per gallon and I have really got used to the
> reciprocal.

Miles per gallon is so far in my past that I've lost any intuitive feel
for what it means. Litres per 100 km feels more natural to me, because
of long practice.