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how to pronounce million, billion, etc.
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Yurui Liu
Mar 5, 2015, 10:25:51 AM3/5/15
to
Hi,
I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it? Or do you simply pronounce one?
If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
I'd appreciate your help.
I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it? Or do you simply pronounce one?
If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
I'd appreciate your help.
Mark Brader
Mar 5, 2015, 10:37:15 AM3/5/15
to
Yurui Liu:
syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
There is only one L sound in English.
--
Mark Brader | "I could be wrong."
Toronto | "Have you ever said that and actually meant it?"
m...@vex.net | "No." --Willie Reale, "Blue Bloods"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
--
Mark Brader | "I could be wrong."
Toronto | "Have you ever said that and actually meant it?"
m...@vex.net | "No." --Willie Reale, "Blue Bloods"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
micky
Mar 5, 2015, 10:58:54 AM3/5/15
to
On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:37:11 -0600, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
I think I know what you're getting at, but I woudln't spell it that way,
>Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
as if ee were a whole syllable of medium or even short length.
I'd put it MILLi-yun. Like the i in millimeter. Very very short by
length. I guess it still meets the definition of another syllable, but
I'm trying to emphasize that it takes a teensy bit of time to say it.
Maybe 40 or 50 years ago I heard millee-yun, but no more.
Of course Yuri doesn't say what region's pronunciation he's asking
about.
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
>There is only one L sound in English.
one. IMO often that makes no discernable difference, even though
dictionaries usually choose one, and iirc sometimes give both.
But here, unless people know how to say lyun, the l has to go with the
mi-.
--
Please say where you live, or what
area's English you are asking about.
So your question or answer makes sense.
. .
I have lived all my life in the USA,
Western Pa. Indianapolis, Chicago,
Brooklyn, Baltimore.
Richard Yates
Mar 5, 2015, 11:01:49 AM3/5/15
to
>Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row.
I am unsure whether I hear or imagine two "L" sounds in "ball-like"
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row.
and "wall-less" (Although I am quite sure that I do not hear three!)
Jerry Friedman
Mar 5, 2015, 11:34:13 AM3/5/15
to
On 3/5/15 8:37 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
For me (an American, originally from Cleveland, Ohio), it's always two
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
syllables, no matter how carefully I'm enunciating.
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row.
this only happens at morpheme boundaries. "Million" has only one /l/.
> When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
> There is only one L sound in English.
than in "like". Lots of Hispanic people and some others pronounce all
/l/s as in "like", though.
I believe I use the "dark" or "velar" sound in "million", as in "mill".
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mar 5, 2015, 11:42:29 AM3/5/15
to
On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
> There is only one L sound in English.
It's a pity Nathan has stopped coming, but I think it isn't the case
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
> There is only one L sound in English.
that we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need
a phonetician to tell us how they are different. On the other hand we
distinguish between sounds that in other languages are regarded as the
same, and /n/ and /N/ are clearly heard in English as two different
sounds (separating "sin" from "sing", for example), but although both
occur in Spanish and Italian they are not perceived as being different
from one another.
--
athel
Yurui Liu
Mar 5, 2015, 11:52:13 AM3/5/15
to
Jerry Friedman於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午12時34分13秒寫道：
Have you heard any Americans say 'million' with the clear /l/ (and
three syllables)?
> --
> Jerry Friedman
three syllables)?
> --
> Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
Mar 5, 2015, 12:01:49 PM3/5/15
to
>Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
>There is only one L sound in English.
The word "llama" can come out "la la ma".
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
>There is only one L sound in English.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 5, 2015, 12:05:42 PM3/5/15
to
>Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row.
In a few cases there is such a thing. They seem to be words made from a
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
>In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
>There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>twice in a row.
prefix ending in "s", such as "dis" or "mis", followed by a word
beginning with "s".
For example:
"disservice" is sometimes spoken as "dis-service".
http://www.forvo.com/word/disservice/#en
"misspeak" and "misspoke" seem to be usually pronounced as "mis-speak"
and "mis-spoke":
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=misspeak
With a single "s" sound "misspoke" could be misunderstood as "mis-poke".
Th following gives the two-s pronunciation of "misspend" and "misspent"
but I woudn't be surprised to hear a single-s version. There is little
danger of misunderstanding.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=misspend
> When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
>There is only one L sound in English.
--
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
Mar 5, 2015, 12:07:16 PM3/5/15
to
On 3/5/15 9:52 AM, Yurui Liu wrote:
> Jerry Friedman於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午12時34分13秒寫道：
...
>> I believe I use the "dark" or "velar" sound in "million", as in "mill".
>
> Have you heard any Americans say 'million' with the clear /l/ (and
> three syllables)?
Not that I remember.
One pronunciation I do remember hearing, probably from people from the
western Midland region, is /'mIj@n/, with no /l/.
--
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午12時34分13秒寫道：
...
>> I believe I use the "dark" or "velar" sound in "million", as in "mill".
>
> Have you heard any Americans say 'million' with the clear /l/ (and
> three syllables)?
One pronunciation I do remember hearing, probably from people from the
western Midland region, is /'mIj@n/, with no /l/.
--
Jerry Friedman
Horace LaBadie
Mar 5, 2015, 12:08:37 PM3/5/15
to
In article <74e3b239-2c04-45b4...@googlegroups.com>,
It's Mill-yun.
Millie-un is heard occasionally from people who like to pronounce every
vowel.
Millie-un is heard occasionally from people who like to pronounce every
vowel.
James Silverton
Mar 5, 2015, 1:00:06 PM3/5/15
to
word "bellllama" (the lead llama in a flock, like a bellwether) to get
two separate L sounds.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Tony Cooper
Mar 5, 2015, 1:14:09 PM3/5/15
to
Traddict
Mar 5, 2015, 1:17:03 PM3/5/15
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" <athe...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de
groupe de discussion : clrfbh...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
>
>> Yurui Liu:
>>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>>
>> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>>
>>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>>
>> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>>
>>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>>
>> There is only one L sound in English.
>
> It's a pity Nathan has stopped coming, but I think it isn't the case that
> we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
> perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need a
> phonetician to tell us how they are different.
In lay terms, pronouncing both in succession, I would say it seems a clear l
>
>> Yurui Liu:
>>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>>
>> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>>
>>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>>
>> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>>
>>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>>
>> There is only one L sound in English.
>
> It's a pity Nathan has stopped coming, but I think it isn't the case that
> we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
> perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need a
> phonetician to tell us how they are different.
is dental and a dark l is palatal.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 5, 2015, 1:59:57 PM3/5/15
to
<ll>, on the other hand, is there in those examples because you need a
spelling with two consonants to cue the proper vowel in the syllable they end.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 5, 2015, 2:05:52 PM3/5/15
to
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:42:29 AM UTC-5, athel...@yahoo wrote:
> On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
> > Yurui Liu:
> >> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
> >
> > In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> > syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
Utter nonsense.
> On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
> > Yurui Liu:
> >> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
> >
> > In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> > syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
> >> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
> >
> > There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> > twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> > that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
> >
> >> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
> >> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
> >
> > There is only one L sound in English.
>
> It's a pity Nathan has stopped coming, but I think it isn't the case
> that we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
> perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need
> a phonetician to tell us how they are different. On the other hand we
> distinguish between sounds that in other languages are regarded as the
> same, and /n/ and /N/ are clearly heard in English as two different
> sounds (separating "sin" from "sing", for example), but although both
> occur in Spanish and Italian they are not perceived as being different
> from one another.
With the "clear l," the front of the tongue (blade or tip) is forward,
perhaps touching the teeth or gum; the the "dark l," the body of the
tongue is retracted. You should be able to feel the difference if you
hold the sounds for a while.
And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
Conveniently, in either dialect it's probably hyphenated mil-lion at a
line break.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 5, 2015, 2:07:54 PM3/5/15
to
-- "dark" or "clear" l either ending or beginning a syllable.)
Peter Moylan
Mar 5, 2015, 5:11:01 PM3/5/15
to
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
JE SUIS CHARLIE
Yurui Liu
Mar 5, 2015, 5:25:15 PM3/5/15
to
Peter T. Daniels於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午3時05分52秒寫道：
>
> And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
> because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
> a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
What about billion and trillion in AmE?
>
> And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
> because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
> a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
Robert Bannister
Mar 5, 2015, 6:21:26 PM3/5/15
to
On 5/03/2015 11:37 pm, Mark Brader wrote:
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
> There is only one L sound in English.
>
Not quite true.
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>
> There is only one L sound in English.
>
We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
language nazis). In Australia, we have gone the other way, reducing the
"ly" to a plain "y": uss (or oss) stray-ya.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
Mar 5, 2015, 6:26:15 PM3/5/15
to
"million": miw-yun.
Jerry Friedman
Mar 6, 2015, 12:25:57 AM3/6/15
to
On 3/5/15 3:25 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午3時05分52秒寫道：
>
>>
>> And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
>> because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
>> a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
>
> What about billion and trillion in AmE?
...
> Peter T. Daniels於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午3時05分52秒寫道：
>
>>
>> And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
>> because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
>> a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
>
> What about billion and trillion in AmE?
They rhyme with "million".
I partly take back what I said before. I think my /l/ in "million" can
probably vary a lot.
--
Jerry Friedman
MSha...@msn.com
Mar 6, 2015, 12:48:23 AM3/6/15
to
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>Not quite true.
>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>language nazis).
That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>Not quite true.
>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>language nazis).
for which nazis are famous.
If you have such a great desire to appear clever, call them language
fascists and maybe people will think you're talking about Mussolini's
crowd. Better yet. call them hard-nosed or something else. If you
claim to know something about English, finding a decent word should be
easy for you.
Steve Hayes
Mar 6, 2015, 1:04:45 AM3/6/15
to
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:48:22 -0500, MSha...@msn.com wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Not quite true.
>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>
>>language nazis).
>
>That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
>for which nazis are famous.
Golly.
>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Not quite true.
>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>
>>language nazis).
>
>That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
>for which nazis are famous.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Tony Cooper
Mar 6, 2015, 1:09:28 AM3/6/15
to
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 08:08:56 +0200, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:48:22 -0500, MSha...@msn.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
>><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Not quite true.
>>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>>
>>>language nazis).
>>
>>That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
>>for which nazis are famous.
>
>Golly.
MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:48:22 -0500, MSha...@msn.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
>><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Not quite true.
>>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>>
>>>language nazis).
>>
>>That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
>>for which nazis are famous.
>
>Golly.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 6, 2015, 1:17:23 AM3/6/15
to
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 5:25:15 PM UTC-5, Yurui Liu wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午3時05分52秒寫道：
> > And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
> > because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
> > a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
>
> What about billion and trillion in AmE?
Why would they be any different?
> Peter T. Daniels於 2015年3月6日星期五 UTC+8上午3時05分52秒寫道：
> > And, to answer Yurui Liu's question, in "million," in AmE it's a "dark l"
> > because it closes a syllable after a vowel. In BrE it's more likely to be
> > a "clear l" because it opens the second syllable.
>
> What about billion and trillion in AmE?
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 6, 2015, 1:21:41 AM3/6/15
to
Mawia Fwiedman -- at the Carlyle Cafe (while Bobby Short was on leave),
before her Broadway stint in the only show by Lloyd Webber that actually
flopped instead of should-have-but-didn't, *The Woman in White* (after
Willkie Collins). That seems to be a _very_ "fashionable" and rare pronunciation.
Pablo
Mar 6, 2015, 3:17:51 AM3/6/15
to
Steve Hayes wrote:
> Golly.
>
Wog.
--
Pablo
http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
https://paulc.es/
https://paulc.es/piso
> Golly.
>
Wog.
--
Pablo
http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
https://paulc.es/
https://paulc.es/piso
rcp...@gmail.com
Mar 6, 2015, 4:16:43 AM3/6/15
to
Robin
James Silverton
Mar 6, 2015, 7:45:17 AM3/6/15
to
Adam Funk
Mar 6, 2015, 8:00:06 AM3/6/15
to
--
It is probable that television drama of high caliber and produced by
first-rate artists will materially raise the level of dramatic taste
of the nation. (David Sarnoff, CEO of RCA, 1939; in Stoll 1995)
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 6, 2015, 8:25:27 AM3/6/15
to
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 8:00:06 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
> > On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
> >>
> > Especially since "infamous" exists.
>
> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
That sounds like Mel Brooks.
> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
> > On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
> >>
> > Especially since "infamous" exists.
>
> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
CDB
Mar 6, 2015, 8:36:08 AM3/6/15
to
On 05/03/2015 10:37 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
> Yurui Liu:
>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/ in
>> 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
Like "like", like most people. (My "l" is bright in "people" too, but
> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/ in
>> 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
not everybody's is.)
> There is only one L sound in English.
comic effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHdFV805t4o
charles
Mar 6, 2015, 8:38:55 AM3/6/15
to
In article <c3e41e17-721f-4ef1...@googlegroups.com>,
no - Frankie Howard
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24 in Surrey
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Richard Tobin
Mar 6, 2015, 9:05:03 AM3/6/15
to
In article <54a0212f...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw
and the interwebs says that he got it from Jimmy Edwards.
-- Richard
charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>no - Frankie Howard
Closer, but it's actually Kenneth Williams:
>> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>no - Frankie Howard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw
and the interwebs says that he got it from Jimmy Edwards.
-- Richard
charles
Mar 6, 2015, 9:29:37 AM3/6/15
to
In article <mdcc27$p1t$2...@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>,
Pompeii
Richard Tobin <ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <54a0212f...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
> >> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
> >no - Frankie Howard
> Closer, but it's actually Kenneth Williams:
That was presumably in Carry on, Cleo, but I'm sure FH used it, too, in Up
> In article <54a0212f...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
> >> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
> >no - Frankie Howard
> Closer, but it's actually Kenneth Williams:
Pompeii
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 6, 2015, 9:44:13 AM3/6/15
to
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:25:57 +0000 (GMT), charles
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <mdcc27$p1t$2...@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>,
> Richard Tobin <ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>> In article <54a0212f...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> >> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
>> >no - Frankie Howard
>
>> Closer, but it's actually Kenneth Williams:
>
>That was presumably in Carry on, Cleo, but I'm sure FH used it, too, in Up
>Pompeii
I can hear in my mind spoken by FH.
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <mdcc27$p1t$2...@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>,
> Richard Tobin <ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>> In article <54a0212f...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
>> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >> > "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> >> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
>> >no - Frankie Howard
>
>> Closer, but it's actually Kenneth Williams:
>
>That was presumably in Carry on, Cleo, but I'm sure FH used it, too, in Up
>Pompeii
This says of Carry on Cleo:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057918/trivia
Although the script is credited to Talbot Rothwell, the most often
quoted line ("Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me!") was
supplied by the writing team of Frank Muir and Denis Norden, who had
coined it for their BBC Radio comedy series "Take It From Here".
Norden recalled that Rothwell asked their permission to recycle the
line before using it in his script.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
Mar 6, 2015, 11:47:37 AM3/6/15
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Katy Jennison
Mar 6, 2015, 12:00:19 PM3/6/15
to
On 06/03/2015 13:37, charles wrote:
> In article <c3e41e17-721f-4ef1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 8:00:06 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>>> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
>>>>>
>>>> Especially since "infamous" exists.
>>>
>>> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
> no - Frankie Howard
>
It wasn't him, but he was Howerd, anyway, not Howard.
> In article <c3e41e17-721f-4ef1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 8:00:06 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>>> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
>>>>>
>>>> Especially since "infamous" exists.
>>>
>>> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
> no - Frankie Howard
>
--
Katy Jennison
Traddict
Mar 6, 2015, 12:05:10 PM3/6/15
to
<MSha...@msn.com> a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion :
ssfifa96hgbvdv7is...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 07:21:19 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Not quite true.
>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>
>>language nazis).
>
> That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
> for which nazis are famous.
The epithet was apparently aimed at me, as he may have not liked being
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Not quite true.
>>We have the so-called "dark L", which often turns into a kind of W sound
>>in words like "will" in south-east Britain. "Million" is one of the few
>>words where we have tongue-tip L (I think it's called a palatal L by the
>
>>language nazis).
>
> That's a disgusting, offensive term that trivialiizes all the murders
> for which nazis are famous.
rebutted when wrongly trying to correct two of my posts several months
apart. It is indeed disgusting.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 6, 2015, 1:08:32 PM3/6/15
to
Why, yes! AHD5 says "equate" is direct from Latin, "relate" via French.
Both AHD5 and MW11C register -sh- for "equation."
Ian Noble
Mar 6, 2015, 5:45:29 PM3/6/15
to
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 07:25:48 -0800 (PST), Yurui Liu
<liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
English doesn't have "long consonants" in the way that some languages
do (e.g. Italian, Japanese). Nor do some double consonants have a
different sound either (e.g. Spanish, Welsh). One /l/ or two, it's the
same sound.
Rather, double consonants tend to affect the vowel sounds around them.
When you meet the sequence {vowel, single consonant, /e/}, the first
vowel sound is usually long, and the /e/ silent. Replace the single
consonant with a double one, and the first vowel usually goes short,
and the /e/ is often no longer silent.
E.g:
later / latter
obese / better
bite / bitten
cope / copper
mute / mutter
tope / hopper
Long vowel, short vowel in each case.
>If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
Yes.
(Put another way - to me, those are the same sound.)
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Hants.)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
<liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it? Or do you simply pronounce one?
>I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
English doesn't have "long consonants" in the way that some languages
do (e.g. Italian, Japanese). Nor do some double consonants have a
different sound either (e.g. Spanish, Welsh). One /l/ or two, it's the
same sound.
Rather, double consonants tend to affect the vowel sounds around them.
When you meet the sequence {vowel, single consonant, /e/}, the first
vowel sound is usually long, and the /e/ silent. Replace the single
consonant with a double one, and the first vowel usually goes short,
and the /e/ is often no longer silent.
E.g:
later / latter
obese / better
bite / bitten
cope / copper
mute / mutter
tope / hopper
Long vowel, short vowel in each case.
>If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
(Put another way - to me, those are the same sound.)
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Hants.)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
Robert Bannister
Mar 6, 2015, 5:46:03 PM3/6/15
to
Robert Bannister
Mar 6, 2015, 5:48:19 PM3/6/15
to
On 6/03/2015 9:37 pm, charles wrote:
> In article <c3e41e17-721f-4ef1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 8:00:06 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>>> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
>>>>>
>>>> Especially since "infamous" exists.
>>>
>>> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
> no - Frankie Howard
>
Werd!
> In article <c3e41e17-721f-4ef1...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 8:00:06 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-06, James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2015 1:09 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>>> MShapiro's post trivializes the word "famous".
>>>>>
>>>> Especially since "infamous" exists.
>>>
>>> "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy!"
>
>> That sounds like Mel Brooks.
>
> no - Frankie Howard
>
David Kleinecke
Mar 6, 2015, 7:24:14 PM3/6/15
to
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 2:46:03 PM UTC-8, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 7/03/2015 2:08 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Both AHD5 and MW11C register -sh- for "equation."
> >
> How weird. Do we know anyone who pronounces it that way?
I seem to pronounce "equation" as though it were /^kweyshn/ (that's
> On 7/03/2015 2:08 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Both AHD5 and MW11C register -sh- for "equation."
> >
> How weird. Do we know anyone who pronounces it that way?
phonemes - not phones). But "sh" and "zh" are in free variation here,
as almost everywhere else, in my speech.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 6, 2015, 10:50:05 PM3/6/15
to
Robert Bannister
Mar 7, 2015, 6:20:34 PM3/7/15
to
here - but I haven't noticed it with "equation".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mar 11, 2015, 1:59:42 PM3/11/15
to
On 2015-03-06 00:26:09 +0100, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> said:
> On 6/03/2015 3:05 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:42:29 AM UTC-5, athel...@yahoo wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
>>>> Yurui Liu:
>>
> On 6/03/2015 3:05 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:42:29 AM UTC-5, athel...@yahoo wrote:
>>> On 2015-03-05 16:37:11 +0100, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) said:
>>>> Yurui Liu:
>>
>>>>> I'd like to know how you pronounce words like million.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In enunciated speech, "MILL-ee-un". In rapid speech, the middle
>>>> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>>
>> Utter nonsense.
>>>> syllable collapses to a Y sound, producing "MILL-yun".
>>
>>
>>>>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>>>>
>>>>> Do you pronounce two /l/'s in it?
>>>>
>>>> There is no such thing in English as pronouncing the same consonant
>>>> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>>>> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>>>>
>>>> twice in a row. When a consonant is written twice it usually means
>>>> that the preceding vowel is (what we call) short.
>>>>
>>>>> If you pronounce only one /l/, do you pronounce it like the /l/
>>>>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>>>>
>>>>> in 'like', or the /l/ in 'mill'?
>>>>
>>>> There is only one L sound in English.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a pity Nathan has stopped coming, but I think it isn't the case
>>> that we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
>>> perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need
>>> a phonetician to tell us how they are different. On the other hand we
>>> distinguish between sounds that in other languages are regarded as the
>>> same, and /n/ and /N/ are clearly heard in English as two different
>>> sounds (separating "sin" from "sing", for example), but although both
>>> occur in Spanish and Italian they are not perceived as being different
>>> from one another.
>>
>> Astonishingly, that's exactly right.
>>
>> With the "clear l," the front of the tongue (blade or tip) is forward,
>> perhaps touching the teeth or gum; the the "dark l," the body of the
>> tongue is retracted. You should be able to feel the difference if you
>> hold the sounds for a while.
>
> I have a horrid feeling that SE England does actually use a dark L in
> "million": miw-yun.
I've certainly heard it said like that, probably by people from SE England.
>>> that we have only one l. We have both a clear l and a dark l, but as we
>>> perceive them as identical and don't separate them as phonemic we need
>>> a phonetician to tell us how they are different. On the other hand we
>>> distinguish between sounds that in other languages are regarded as the
>>> same, and /n/ and /N/ are clearly heard in English as two different
>>> sounds (separating "sin" from "sing", for example), but although both
>>> occur in Spanish and Italian they are not perceived as being different
>>> from one another.
>>
>> Astonishingly, that's exactly right.
>>
>> With the "clear l," the front of the tongue (blade or tip) is forward,
>> perhaps touching the teeth or gum; the the "dark l," the body of the
>> tongue is retracted. You should be able to feel the difference if you
>> hold the sounds for a while.
>
> I have a horrid feeling that SE England does actually use a dark L in
> "million": miw-yun.
--
athel
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