Is there a standard expression in English that refers to "the turning of the worm"?
Charles Self
For example the character King in Platoon says: "There is a way out
of everything, man. Just keep your p*cker hard and your powder dry and
the worm will turn."
Is there a deeper meaning, is this a reference, or just nonsensical
rhyming slang?
Lars Eighner
<01a9ab10-9903-4561...@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented Charles Self broadcast on alt.usage.english:
This is a mixture of several platitudes or proverbs. This is a parody of
inspirational or motivational speeches --- if memory serves, a quite
conscious satire by the character.
"Even a worm will turn" means a worm will attack if sufficiently irritated,
or in other words, a docile or mild-manner person will retaliate if provoked
too much.
"Keep your powder dry" attributed to Cromwell, the whole being "Put your
trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry." The powder, of course, is
gun powder, and the meaning is "be ready for a fight."
"Just keep your pecker hard" is the same as "keep a stiff upper lip." The
original is now ridiculous because pecker means penis in American slang, but
of course it means lips, kisser, mouth, beak in the original. The upper lip
may quiver when a person is about to cry or is otherwise overcome by
emotion, so the saying means don't cry, be resolute, and so forth.
Of course mixed all together these expressions do not quite make sense, but
that is the point. Supposedly inspiration words really are nonsense, no one
really listens to them, and they don't do any good.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> use...@larseighner.com
Countdown: 203 days to go.
tinwhistler
> In our last episode,
> <01a9ab10-9903-4561-b7f1-265ab76c4...@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, the
According to Walter Scott's Personality Parade in Parade for December
26, 2004, "[President] Bush has several nicknames for [Karl] Rove, 54,
including ... 'Turd Blossom'
Maybe we should add to the list of proverbial platitudes, Every turd
will blossom?
--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Donna Richoux
Your title line asks specifically about "the turning of the worm." Yes,
it's from an old proverbial saying.
Bartlett's Quotations shows that it is in Shakespeare:
The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on.
King Henry VI. Part III. Act ii. Sc. 2.
ODEP has a citation slightly earlier, 1546.
An observer who says "The worm turns!" means the downtrodden victim has
had enough and is attacking his or her persecutor. It's the sort of line
you might hear in a wise-cracking 1930s movie.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Charles Self
> inspirational or motivational speeches --- if memory serves, a quite
> conscious satire by the character.
>
> "Even a worm will turn" means a worm will attack if sufficiently irritated,
> or in other words, a docile or mild-manner person will retaliate if provoked
> too much.
>
> "Keep your powder dry" attributed to Cromwell, the whole being "Put your
> trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry." The powder, of course, is
> gun powder, and the meaning is "be ready for a fight."
>
> "Just keep your pecker hard" is the same as "keep a stiff upper lip." The
> original is now ridiculous because pecker means penis in American slang, but
> of course it means lips, kisser, mouth, beak in the original. The upper lip
> may quiver when a person is about to cry or is otherwise overcome by
> emotion, so the saying means don't cry, be resolute, and so forth.
>
> Of course mixed all together these expressions do not quite make sense, but
> that is the point. Supposedly inspiration words really are nonsense, no one
> really listens to them, and they don't do any good.
Excellent, thanks Lars.
The worm-will-turn phrase is also used in by Shakespeare's Henry IV:
The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on ...
... as I have found out in the meanwhile. ;)
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> lovely and talented Charles Self broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
> > If so, what does it mean?
> > For example the character King in Platoon says: "There is a way out of
> > everything, man. Just keep your p*cker hard and your powder dry and the
> > worm will turn."
> > Is there a deeper meaning, is this a reference, or just nonsensical
> > rhyming slang?
>
> This is a mixture of several platitudes or proverbs. This is a parody of
> inspirational or motivational speeches --- if memory serves, a quite
> conscious satire by the character.
>
> "Even a worm will turn" means a worm will attack if sufficiently irritated,
> or in other words, a docile or mild-manner person will retaliate if provoked
> too much.
>
> "Keep your powder dry" attributed to Cromwell, the whole being "Put your
> trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry." The powder, of course, is
> gun powder, and the meaning is "be ready for a fight."
>
> "Just keep your pecker hard" is the same as "keep a stiff upper lip." The
> original is now ridiculous because pecker means penis in American slang, but
> of course it means lips, kisser, mouth, beak in the original. The upper lip
> may quiver when a person is about to cry or is otherwise overcome by
> emotion, so the saying means don't cry, be resolute, and so forth.
The NSOED has only "keep your pecker up", in which it says "pecker"
refers to courage or spirits, dating to the mid nineteenth century.
The phallic meaning it dates to the early twentieth and calls North
American, as you say. Nothing about meaning a stiff upper lip.
I have my doubts about the "courage" meaning. Why should "pecker"
mean "courage", except that it means "penis"?
--
Jerry Friedman
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Keep your powder dry" attributed to Cromwell, the whole being "Put
> your trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry." The powder,
> of course, is gun powder, and the meaning is "be ready for a fight."
More to the point, "take practical steps to prepare yourself; don't
*just* trust in God".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Never ascribe to malice that which
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can adequately be explained by
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stupidity.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
CDB
> Charles Self <karl...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> If so, what does it mean?
>> For example the character King in Platoon says: "There is a way
>> out of everything, man. Just keep your p*cker hard and your powder
>> dry and the worm will turn."
>> Is there a deeper meaning, is this a reference, or just nonsensical
>> rhyming slang?
> Your title line asks specifically about "the turning of the worm."
> Yes, it's from an old proverbial saying.
> Bartlett's Quotations shows that it is in Shakespeare:
> The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on.
> King Henry VI. Part III. Act ii. Sc. 2.
> ODEP has a citation slightly earlier, 1546.
And the OP should know that the earliest uses of "worm" included
reptiles, or any creeping thing. The worm that would turn (on its
persecutors) would pretty certainly be a snake.
[The Road to Worms, featuring Dorothy Lamour's star turn as "die
Drachendame"]
tony cooper
>I have my doubts about the "courage" meaning. Why should "pecker"
>mean "courage", except that it means "penis"?
It does take some courage to talk about the aesthetics of the pecker's
appearance as Charles Riggs has been seen to do in another thread.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
William
> Bartlett's Quotations shows that it is in Shakespeare:
>
> The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on.
> King Henry VI. Part III. Act ii. Sc. 2.
>
> ODEP has a citation slightly earlier, 1546.
>
> An observer who says "The worm turns!" means the downtrodden victim has
> had enough and is attacking his or her persecutor. It's the sort of line
> you might hear in a wise-cracking 1930s movie.
Several BrE correspondents will be having a flashback to "The Two
Ronnies":
http://loveandliberty.blogspot.com/2006/06/two-ronnies-worm-that-turned.html
--
WH
Evan Kirshenbaum
> The NSOED has only "keep your pecker up", in which it says "pecker"
> refers to courage or spirits, dating to the mid nineteenth century.
> The phallic meaning it dates to the early twentieth and calls North
> American, as you say. Nothing about meaning a stiff upper lip.
>
> I have my doubts about the "courage" meaning. Why should "pecker"
> mean "courage", except that it means "penis"?
I would've said that it was a reference to the nose, coming from a
bird's bill, but the OED only cites that to 1891, while "keep your
pecker up" is cited to 1845. (The "penis" sense is cited only to
1902.) The only earlier senses are a type of hoe (1588), a person or
animal that pecks (1697), a type of rice mill (1802, American), and a
"shuttle-driver" in weaving (1807).
The first hit on Google Books defines it as
PECKER, "keep your PECKER up," _i.e._, don't get down in the
mouth,--literally, keep your beak or head well up, "never say
die!"
_A Dictionary of Modern Slang, Cant, and Vulgar
Words: Used at the Present Day in the Streets of
London; the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge;
the Houses of Parliament; the Dens of St. Giles;
and the Palaces of St. James_, 1860
As far as I can tell, that's the first mention of "pecker" preceded by
a possessive pronoun.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The reason that we don't have
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |"bear-proof" garbage cans in the
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |park is that there is a significant
|overlap in intelligence between the
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |smartest bears and the dumbest
(650)857-7572 |humans.
| Yosemite Park Ranger
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Nick Spalding
<e91684ec-07c5-442a...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>
on Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:04:52 -0700 (PDT):
I think it was George Orwell who wrote that it is actually the lower lip
that requires stiffening; I don't remember where.
> I have my doubts about the "courage" meaning. Why should "pecker"
> mean "courage", except that it means "penis"?
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
CDB
For "peck", Partridge's _Historical Slang_ has a preponderance of uses
associated with food and eating. His guess is that "pecker' in the
sense of courage may come from "appetite", if not from "beak". My old
mother told me it meant "chin", but that appears to have been a
practical approach to word-substitution, not etymology.
Chuck Riggs
Except they did provide us some comic relief, thanks to you, Lars.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Mike L
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
That's interesting, as I'd always taken "pecker" here to mean "nose",
because that organ is also called "beak"*.The idea I constructed was
based on keeping one's head high in spite of difficulties: "Keep your
head and your heart high" as young horsemen are told.
*As in the Aus expression "sticky-beak" for an over-inquisitive
person.
--
Mike.
Glenn Knickerbocker
> That's interesting, as I'd always taken "pecker" here to mean "nose",
> because that organ is also called "beak"
Any Gilbert and Sullivan fan knows that the pecker is to be kept not just
up, but firm.
ŹR
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
So one way or another, it may have been somewhere around the mouth,
unlike what I thought. Thanks, all.
--
Jerry Friedman
alanca...@gmail.com
Athel Cornish-Bowden
worm has turned".
--
athel
the Omrud
> On 2014-04-22 15:11:20 +0200, alanca...@gmail.com said:
>
>> Thanks to Urban Dictionary, "From an ancient proverb, "the worm will
>> provoked. It can also mean a change in fortune." Keeping your powder dry
> The only form that I would call a standard expression would be "the worm
> has turned".
finally retaliated.
Actually, since the speaker had a strong Liverpool accent, it was more
like "Aha! The wearm tearns". I have no idea if that Scouse vowel is
capable of being rendered in IPA.
--
David
Guy Barry
>Actually, since the speaker had a strong Liverpool accent, it was more like
>"Aha! The wearm tearns". I have no idea if that Scouse vowel is capable
>of being rendered in IPA.
tracts from everyone else!
I'm no expert, but I'd probably transcribe it as something like /I@/.
--
Guy Barry
John Varela
> Thanks to Urban Dictionary, "From an ancient proverb, "the worm will turn when trodden upon" meaning the meekest among us will fight back when provoked. It can also mean a change in fortune." Keeping your powder dry referred to gunpowder used in old muskets. They wouldn't fire if they got wet. The other part, well I think you know what that means.
specifically, the powder in the pan.
There's also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm_Runner%27s_Digest
--
John Varela
Peter Moylan
do with keeping one's powder dry? Worms are invertebrates, and therefore
unarmed.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
quia...@yahoo.com
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>On 22/04/14 23:11, alanca...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Urban Dictionary, "From an ancient proverb, "the worm will
>> turn when trodden upon" meaning the meekest among us will fight back
>> when provoked. It can also mean a change in fortune." Keeping your
>> powder dry referred to gunpowder used in old muskets. They wouldn't
>> fire if they got wet. The other part, well I think you know what
>> that means.
>
>Leave no worm unturned, and no tern unstoned. But what does this have to
>do with keeping one's powder dry? Worms are invertebrates, and therefore
>unarmed.
--
John
Mike L
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
> On 22/04/14 23:11, alanca...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Urban Dictionary, "From an ancient proverb, "the worm will
>> turn when trodden upon" meaning the meekest among us will fight back
>> when provoked. It can also mean a change in fortune." Keeping your
>> powder dry referred to gunpowder used in old muskets. They wouldn't
>> fire if they got wet. The other part, well I think you know what
>> that means.
>
> Leave no worm unturned, and no tern unstoned. But what does this have to
> do with keeping one's powder dry? Worms are invertebrates, and therefore
> unarmed.
>
not really sure what bran is, but I think it's sawdust in cereal form).
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
sound like a recipe for a long life.
Peter Moylan
what it was called, but we all sprinkled it on our cereal because we
liked the taste.
I didn't learn about talcum powder until I had a child of my own, and I
didn't learn about underarm deodorant until some time after that. (I did
learn about stepping on snakes before that, but thanks to a friend I
froze before putting my foot down. That's one of the times I came very
close to dying; it would have taken hours to get to the local hospital,
and anyway they probably didn't have brown snake anti-venine.) I've
never met a snake who used under-arm deodorant.
Mike L
--
Mike.
Curlytop
space-time continuum:
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Richard Bollard
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.