What lies ahead vs what lays ahead

[Fran Jones]

I'm proofreading my kid's paper, and this one is stumping me:

As the theme gives light to what lays/lies ahead in the poem...
The theme is very important in giving the essence of what lays/lies ahead ...

When I google, and get Grammar Girl, I'm even more confused:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx

Which is it, lays ahead or lies ahead?

[Richard Yates]

Lies.

As Grammar girl explains, lay takes a direct object. There is none in
"...what lies ahead."

[Leslie Danks]

Normally "lies", unless we are talking about a chicken crossing the road and
about to be run over.

--
Les (BrE)
I am a conceptual thinker. Please don't bother me with facts.

[erilar]

In article <pan.2013.07...@is.invalid>,

Chickens lay. It's lies.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Skitt]

erilar wrote:

> Fran Jones wrote:

>> I'm proofreading my kid's paper, and this one is stumping me:
>>
>> As the theme gives light to what lays/lies ahead in the poem...
>> The theme is very important in giving the essence of what lays/lies ahead ...
>>
>> When I google, and get Grammar Girl, I'm even more confused:
>> http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx
>>
>> Which is it, lays ahead or lies ahead?
>
> Chickens lay. It's lies.
>

It's no lie that chickens lay.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

[Stan Brown]

Lie is intransitive; lay is transitive. The only choice is "lies
ahead".

Of course you will find that the error "lays ahead" is very common.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Peter Moylan]

I've just taken a look at that web site, and in particular at the
comments people have made. Some commenters obviously already knew the
distinction without having to have it explained. Others, equally
obviously, didn't understand it even after reading the explanation. The
explanation is, by the way, clear and correct. Well, it was clear to me.
Apparently it was not clear to others.

The key to understanding the difference lies (not lays!) in knowing the
difference between transitive and intransitive verbs, and that in turn
depends on knowing what is meant by a direct object.

Most of us here learnt those concepts in primary school, and would
classify them as elementary in the extreme; but I have the impression
that schools are no longer teaching such grammatical details, and
instead relying on children's picking them up from their reading. That,
of course, puts those who do not read at a disadvantage.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Peter Moylan]

On 03/07/13 14:03, Fran Jones wrote:

Although I agree with everyone who has responded -- "lies" is correct,
"lays" is wrong unless the poem is about poultry -- I'd suggest that
this is an area where the language is changing. The use of "lay" to mean
"lie" is so widespread that it will probably be considered correct
within the next hundred years.

Traditionally English has had a few verb pairs like lie/lay, sit/set,
where a vowel change distinguishes between the intransitive and the
transitive form, but now I'm having trouble thinking of examples. That's
partly because of my declining memory, I suppose, but I submit that it's
also because fewer people are respecting this distinction. It's probably
because these are verbs where the tense inflection is also indicated by
a vowel change, leading people to become confused about the difference
between "transitive present" and "intransitive past".

Of course it's also because vowels change between dialects and with the
passing of time. I gather that there are parts of the US where there is
no audible difference between "sit" and "set", and I suspect that there
are parts of Britain where "lie" and "lay" sound the same.

[Skitt]

Stan Brown wrote:
> Fran Jones wrote:

>> I'm proofreading my kid's paper, and this one is stumping me:
>>
>> As the theme gives light to what lays/lies ahead in the poem...
>> The theme is very important in giving the essence of what lays/lies ahead ...
>>
>> When I google, and get Grammar Girl, I'm even more confused:
>> http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx
>>
>> Which is it, lays ahead or lies ahead?
>
> Lie is intransitive; lay is transitive. The only choice is "lies
> ahead".
>
> Of course you will find that the error "lays ahead" is very common.
>

I'd even say that the use of lay for lie is more common than the correct
use. Right now there are VW commercials that reinforce the misuse many
times every day.

The phrase "you and I", used as an object, is also on a strong path to
exclusivity. The possessive "you and I's" form is not far behind, as
are malformed past participles. Lack of education is rampant among the
young ...

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/07/13 7:48 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 03/07/13 14:03, Fran Jones wrote:
>> I'm proofreading my kid's paper, and this one is stumping me:
>>
>> As the theme gives light to what lays/lies ahead in the poem...
>> The theme is very important in giving the essence of what lays/lies ahead ...
>>
>> When I google, and get Grammar Girl, I'm even more confused:
>> http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx
>>
>> Which is it, lays ahead or lies ahead?
>
> Although I agree with everyone who has responded -- "lies" is correct,
> "lays" is wrong unless the poem is about poultry -- I'd suggest that
> this is an area where the language is changing. The use of "lay" to mean
> "lie" is so widespread that it will probably be considered correct
> within the next hundred years.

I think it's already happened in some areas. I can't remember the last
time I heard anybody on television use the word "lie" except when
describing politicians.
--
Robert Bannister

[mel...@cybermesa.com]

If in the present tense, what lies ahead. If in the past tense, what lay ahead.
Tense matters, people.

Lie and lay both have many definitions, but they’re most often confused where lie means to recline and lay means to put down. But the distinction is simple: Lay needs an object—something being laid—while lie cannot have an object. For example, you might lay a book on the table, lay a sweater on the bed, or lay a child in her crib. When you feel tired at the end of the day, you may lie down. But you can’t lie a book anywhere, and you can’t lay down (no object) at the end of the day.

The verbs’ inflections are as follows:

verb/present/past/past participle/present participle
lay lay laid laid laying
lie lie LAY lain lying

[Joe Fineman]

mel...@cybermesa.com writes:

> verb/present/past/past participle/present participle
> lay lay laid laid laying
> lie lie LAY lain lying

Yes, if you want to write standard literary English. But various vulgar
American dialects have long since sunk "to lie" altogether, and it is
pretty hopeless to protest against them by now.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Oppression causes and is caused by moral deficiencies of the :||
||: oppressors and the oppressed. :||

[Richard Yates]

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:01:15 -0400, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>mel...@cybermesa.com writes:
>
>> verb/present/past/past participle/present participle
>> lay lay laid laid laying
>> lie lie LAY lain lying
>
>Yes, if you want to write standard literary English. But various vulgar
>American dialects have long since sunk "to lie" altogether, and it is
>pretty hopeless to protest against them by now.

My observations agree with Joe's. A friend has asked me to correct her
when I hear "lay" instead of "lie" and so I have been hyper-aware of
that usage in my vicinity. I don't where the tipping point is, but I
believe that I now hear, for instance, "He is going to lay down" more
often than the correct word.

[Glenn Knickerbocker]

What lays ahead is something with an ovipositor in the front, like a
wasp. A bird lays behind.

¬R

[Robert Bannister]

On 17/06/2016 6:01 AM, Joe Fineman wrote:
> mel...@cybermesa.com writes:
>
>> verb/present/past/past participle/present participle
>> lay lay laid laid laying
>> lie lie LAY lain lying
>
> Yes, if you want to write standard literary English. But various vulgar
> American dialects have long since sunk "to lie" altogether, and it is
> pretty hopeless to protest against them by now.
>

My impression from listening to TV is that lying is nowadays confined to
politicians.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[raymak...@qhsls.org]

Lmao u wild 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭

[TonnyJ...@hotkey.net.au]

The correct grammar is
"As the theme gives light to what lies ahead in the poem...
The theme is very important in giving the essence of what lies ahead."

TO OTHER RESPONDENTS:
I read the posts in this thread and I am no clearer and I am actually quite disgusted at the responses. You are all so busy showing off your prowess and your self righteous opinion. Sadly no one directly answered her question. Reading these patronising responses, I'm not any clearer. If any of you are teachers you should be ashamed.

The fault lies not with education. It lays with human nature. We learn, then over time it becomes a habit and we choose automatically as we write or speak. Only when we have to explain or teach do we become confused, as we haven't thought about the explanation in years.

People, start with a direct answer to the query, then support it with an explanation. A simple and effective way to respond to a question.

Not difficult people, not difficult.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2017-Jan-24 13:36, TonnyJ...@hotkey.net.au wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 at 2:03:20 PM UTC+10, Fran Jones wrote:
>> I'm proofreading my kid's paper, and this one is stumping me:
>>
>> As the theme gives light to what lays/lies ahead in the poem... The
>> theme is very important in giving the essence of what lays/lies
>> ahead ...
>>
>> When I google, and get Grammar Girl, I'm even more confused:
>> http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx
>>
>> Which is it, lays ahead or lies ahead?
>
> The correct grammar is "As the theme gives light to what lies ahead
> in the poem... The theme is very important in giving the essence of
> what lies ahead."
>
> TO OTHER RESPONDENTS: I read the posts in this thread and I am no
> clearer and I am actually quite disgusted at the responses. You are
> all so busy showing off your prowess and your self righteous opinion.
> Sadly no one directly answered her question. Reading these
> patronising responses, I'm not any clearer. If any of you are
> teachers you should be ashamed.

My newsreader doesn't retain posts all the way back to 2013. The ones I
do have are from June last year. Apart from one obvious troll, all were
helpful and informative. What else do you want?

> The fault lies not with education. It lays with human nature.

That should have been "lies" in both sentences, of course.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[bosod...@gmail.com]

Hear, hear! My sentiments exactly! A dozen or so half-hearted attempts and comments and not a one giving a decent response not counting Grammar Girl cuz maybe she's the only one mentioned so far with the testicular and brevity to have responded with what I was looking for as an answer with a decent set of examples -- shame on you peacocks!

[Harrison Hill]

And peahens? "Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed". Let's get
together in another 7 months to chew the wind :p

[Sam Plusnet]

Why not travel back to 2013 and give the OP a timely response.
You could warn people about Trump whilst you're there.

--
Sam Plusnet

[dylanarodgers]

Except "what" can be the object, as in this sentence.

You should think about what lies ahead.

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[David Kleinecke]

On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 10:55:32 AM UTC-8, dylanarodgers wrote:
> Except "what" can be the object, as in this sentence.
>
> You should think about what lies ahead.

(1) You should NOT top-post

(2) "What lies ahead" is the object and is a perfectly
normal English construction.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-11-17 19:31:35 +0000, David Kleinecke said:

> On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 10:55:32 AM UTC-8, dylanarodgers wrote:
>> Except "what" can be the object, as in this sentence.
>>
>> You should think about what lies ahead.
>
> (1) You should NOT top-post

In addition, responding to four-year old posts is not usually a good idea.

>
> (2) "What lies ahead" is the object and is a perfectly
> normal English construction.

Of course, but drop-by posters don't know things like that.

--
athel