Dinty

[Harrison Hill]

‘Smudger’ Smith
‘Nobby’ Clark
‘Pedlar’ Palmer
‘Spud’ Murphy
‘Dixie’ Dean
‘Dinty’ Moore

'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.

This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
about where you live?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.

Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."

Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef stew.

[Whiskers]

(BrE) I've heard 'Nobby Clark[e]' and 'Dusty Miller' and 'Spud Murphy'
as nicnames traditionally associated with those surnames. But not the
others. Pedlar is a surname itself so unlikely to be a nicname too. I
thought 'Dixie' was a real name, and 'Smudger' a job description
(something to do with smoke, I think) or a character in 'Thomas the Tank
Engine' stories. 'Dinty' is entirely new to me.

I've no idea what the association is between 'Nobby' and 'Clark[e]'.

'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.

'Spud Murphy' might be seen as somewhat derogatory if not insulting; use
with care. 'Spud' is a slang word for 'potato', often associated with
Ireland thanks to the potato famine of the 19th century - 'Murphy' being
an Irish name.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Ross]

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 4:54:04 AM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
>
> > ‘Smudger’ Smith
> > ‘Nobby’ Clark
> > ‘Pedlar’ Palmer
> > ‘Spud’ Murphy
> > ‘Dixie’ Dean
> > ‘Dinty’ Moore
> >
> > 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
> >
> > This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
> > about where you live?
>
> Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.

I think what HH is getting at, in his usual gnomic way, is
traditional nicknames associated with a particular surname.
'Nobby' Clark was discussed here not too long ago.

> Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
> Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."

English footballer.

> Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef stew.

But before that, a character in the "Bringing Up Father"
comic strip, owner of Jiggs' favourite tavern.

and an American football player

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinty_Moore_(American_football)

and a Canadian hockey player

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Moore_(ice_hockey)

[Peter T. Daniels]

Dixie Carter (no quotation marks) is an actress best known for the TV series
*Designing Women* but still often seen in guest or continuing roles in both
comedy and drama series.

I've heard of Dusty Springfield. I think she's a singer of some sort but I
don't know whether that's a given name or a nickname. Flour mills seem unlikely.

We'd say "Spuds" Murphy and there wouldn't be anything derogatory or insulting
about it; Irish are associated with potatoes. For the plural, cf. Studs Terkel,
the radio interviewer and raconteur. Though he was nicknamed after his favorite
literary character, Studs Lonigan.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:06:07 -0700 (PDT), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

>On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 4:54:04 AM UTC+12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>
>> > ‘Smudger’ Smith
>> > ‘Nobby’ Clark
>> > ‘Pedlar’ Palmer
>> > ‘Spud’ Murphy
>> > ‘Dixie’ Dean
>> > ‘Dinty’ Moore
>> >
>> > 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
>> >
>> > This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
>> > about where you live?
>>
>> Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.
>
>I think what HH is getting at, in his usual gnomic way, is
>traditional nicknames associated with a particular surname.
>'Nobby' Clark was discussed here not too long ago.
>
>> Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
>> Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."

Dixie Carter was an American actress who is best known for being
"Julia Sugarbaker" in the TV show "Designing Women". Her third
husband was Hal Holbrook. She died in 2010. "Dixie" was her real
first name.

It wouldn't be unusual for a person to call a Southerner "Dixie" -
especially in a sport like baseball - but whether or not it would
stick as a nickname is an unknown.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:09:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Only in re-runs. She died in 2010.

>I've heard of Dusty Springfield. I think she's a singer of some sort but I
>don't know whether that's a given name or a nickname. Flour mills seem unlikely.

Her bio says the nickname came from playing football on the streets
with her brothers and being a tomboy. That "football" is the round
one since the streets were in the UK.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <209b2abd-85a6-4664...@googlegroups.com>,

Spuds MacKenzie was a dog. Or he played one in the beer commercials.

[Katy Jennison]

(BrE) There's also Chalky White, and others of that ilk which escape me
for the moment.

--
Katy Jennison

[GordonD]

On 10/08/2016 20:59, Whiskers wrote:

Dixie Dean played for Everton in the 1920s and '30s and holds the
record for scoring in a season - sixty goals. Wikipedia offers two
possibilities for the origin of his nickname: his dark complexion
reminded people of people from the US Deep South; alternatively it was
a corruption of his childhood nickname of 'Digsy' because when he was
playing tag he would dig his fist into a playmate's back.

In the 1970s Celtic had a player called 'Dixie' Deans (with an 's')
whose nickname was taken from the other one.

And you forgot 'Chalkie' White...
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Ross]

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 7:59:22 AM UTC+12, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
> On 2016-08-10, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
> >
> >> ‘Smudger’ Smith
> >> ‘Nobby’ Clark
> >> ‘Pedlar’ Palmer
> >> ‘Spud’ Murphy
> >> ‘Dixie’ Dean
> >> ‘Dinty’ Moore
> >>
> >> 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
> >>
> >> This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
> >> about where you live?
> >
> > Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.
> >
> > Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
> > Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."
> >
> > Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef stew.
>
> (BrE) I've heard 'Nobby Clark[e]' and 'Dusty Miller' and 'Spud Murphy'
> as nicnames traditionally associated with those surnames. But not the
> others. Pedlar is a surname itself so unlikely to be a nicname too. I
> thought 'Dixie' was a real name, and 'Smudger' a job description
> (something to do with smoke, I think) or a character in 'Thomas the Tank
> Engine' stories. 'Dinty' is entirely new to me.
>
> I've no idea what the association is between 'Nobby' and 'Clark[e]'.

Back in May, when this came up, I suggested that perhaps the
original "(k)nobby" clarks/clerks (literate persons in a largely
illiterate age) were tonsured monks. Based on pretty tenuous
evidence, but I haven't heard a better explanation.

I've only been called "(K)Nobby" by one person in my life, and that
not often. I think this nicknaming practice was much more prevalent
in England than elsewhere.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:22:32 +0100, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>And you forgot 'Chalkie' White...

Some Americans would link that name to a character in "Boardwalk
Empire" who was not at all white.

That character's name was spelled "Chalky" in the scripts.

[Robert Bannister]

On 11/08/2016 3:59 AM, Whiskers wrote:

> 'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.

More likely that the miller's clothing was white with flour.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

Teachers are sometimes called "Chalky" in this country.

[Ross]

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 7:59:22 AM UTC+12, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:

> On 2016-08-10, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
> >
> >> ‘Smudger’ Smith
> >> ‘Nobby’ Clark
> >> ‘Pedlar’ Palmer
> >> ‘Spud’ Murphy
> >> ‘Dixie’ Dean
> >> ‘Dinty’ Moore
> >>
> >> 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
> >>
> >> This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
> >> about where you live?
> >
> > Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.
> >
> > Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
> > Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."
> >
> > Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef stew.
>
> (BrE) I've heard 'Nobby Clark[e]' and 'Dusty Miller' and 'Spud Murphy'
> as nicnames traditionally associated with those surnames. But not the
> others. Pedlar is a surname itself so unlikely to be a nicname too. I
> thought 'Dixie' was a real name, and 'Smudger' a job description
> (something to do with smoke, I think) or a character in 'Thomas the Tank
> Engine' stories. 'Dinty' is entirely new to me.

Could "Dinty" actually be from "dingy", playing on Moore = Moor (dark-skinned person)?

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Aug-11 07:25, Ross wrote:

> Back in May, when this came up, I suggested that perhaps the
> original "(k)nobby" clarks/clerks (literate persons in a largely
> illiterate age) were tonsured monks. Based on pretty tenuous
> evidence, but I haven't heard a better explanation.

My surname is an anglicised form of a name meaning "descendant of the
bald one". I've seen it suggested that this wasn't applied to
descendants of bald men in general -- of which there has always been a
plentiful supply, and it's not rare for them to have children -- but
specifically to tonsured monks.

> I've only been called "(K)Nobby" by one person in my life, and that
> not often. I think this nicknaming practice was much more prevalent
> in England than elsewhere.

None of the names in Harrison's list were familiar to me. I suppose that
that means that the nicknames used in Australia are disjoint from those
used in England.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Aug-11 09:57, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 11/08/2016 3:59 AM, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> 'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.
>
> More likely that the miller's clothing was white with flour.
>

People were very conscious of the flour dust in mills, because in the
presence of a naked flame it's explosive.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-08-10 19:59:17 +0000, Whiskers said:

> On 2016-08-10, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>
>>> ‘Smudger’ Smith
>>> ‘Nobby’ Clark
>>> ‘Pedlar’ Palmer
>>> ‘Spud’ Murphy
>>> ‘Dixie’ Dean
>>> ‘Dinty’ Moore
>>>
>>> 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
>>>
>>> This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
>>> about where you live?
>>
>> Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.
>>
>> Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major figures in St.
>> Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."
>>
>> Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef stew.
>
> (BrE) I've heard 'Nobby Clark[e]' and 'Dusty Miller' and 'Spud Murphy'
> as nicnames traditionally associated with those surnames.

Also Bill Bailey. I knew a Bill Bailey whose given name was Leslie, but
he had served as dentist in the Navy during the war.

> But not the
> others. Pedlar is a surname itself so unlikely to be a nicname too. I
> thought 'Dixie' was a real name, and 'Smudger' a job description
> (something to do with smoke, I think) or a character in 'Thomas the Tank
> Engine' stories. 'Dinty' is entirely new to me.
>
> I've no idea what the association is between 'Nobby' and 'Clark[e]'.
>
> 'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.
>
> 'Spud Murphy' might be seen as somewhat derogatory if not insulting; use
> with care. 'Spud' is a slang word for 'potato', often associated with
> Ireland thanks to the potato famine of the 19th century - 'Murphy' being
> an Irish name.


--

athel

[Cheryl]

On 2016-08-11 1:13 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2016-Aug-11 09:57, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 11/08/2016 3:59 AM, Whiskers wrote:
>>
>>> 'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.
>>
>> More likely that the miller's clothing was white with flour.
>>
> People were very conscious of the flour dust in mills, because in the
> presence of a naked flame it's explosive.
>

You don't even need a naked flame for an explosion. Friction can be
enough to set it off.

--
Cheryl

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[grabber]

You like quizzes. "Dinty" was one of the "five words people often think
are dirty" documented in the Young Ones book "Bachelor Boys". I
challenge you (and the rest of youse) to guess any of the other four
without looking it up.

[Andy Leighton]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:00:02 +0100, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> (BrE) There's also Chalky White, and others of that ilk which escape me
> for the moment.

Jack Frost? Bunny Warren? Dickie Bird?

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

[Harrison Hill]

I have no idea; nor have I succeeded in looking them up. "Dinty"
isn't included in this impressive 50:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/58036/50-words-sound-rude-actually-arent

http://preview.tinyurl.com/l5rlg5b

[grabber]

Neither are any of the other four words in the Young Ones' list (which
is admittedly a little uneven). One of their words is perhaps in the
same spirit as the list in your link.

[CDB]

On 8/10/2016 8:17 PM, Ross wrote:

> Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Harrison Hill wrote:

>>>> ‘Smudger’ Smith ‘Nobby’ Clark ‘Pedlar’ Palmer ‘Spud’ Murphy
>>>> ‘Dixie’ Dean ‘Dinty’ Moore

>>>> 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.

>>>> This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
>>>> about where you live?

>>> Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.

>>> Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major
>>> figures in St. Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."

'Godfrey' Daniels

>>> Dinty Moore is a brand of canned meat products, canonically beef
>>> stew.

>> (BrE) I've heard 'Nobby Clark[e]' and 'Dusty Miller' and 'Spud
>> Murphy' as nicnames traditionally associated with those surnames.
>> But not the others. Pedlar is a surname itself so unlikely to be a
>> nicname too. I thought 'Dixie' was a real name, and 'Smudger' a
>> job description (something to do with smoke, I think) or a
>> character in 'Thomas the Tank Engine' stories. 'Dinty' is entirely
>> new to me.

> Could "Dinty" actually be from "dingy", playing on Moore = Moor
> (dark-skinned person)?

It appears to be a ScotsE spelling of "dainty". I suppose that might be
used as a nickname, or on a can of stew.

"And sae to wean oor wee cat frae aff its dinty fare,
We sent it to an oothoose, and fed it verra spare"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=40YLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA294&dq=dinty&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=dinty&f=false

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 9:17:46 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 8/10/2016 8:17 PM, Ross wrote:
> > Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
> >> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>> Harrison Hill wrote:

> >>>> ‘Smudger’ Smith ‘Nobby’ Clark ‘Pedlar’ Palmer ‘Spud’ Murphy
> >>>> ‘Dixie’ Dean ‘Dinty’ Moore
> >>>> 'Dusty' is Miller in BrE, Rhodes or Rhoades in Leftpondia.
> >>>> This custom seems to have almost died-out where I live. What
> >>>> about where you live?
> >>> Eh? There are no nicknames in England? I'm dubious.
> >>> Incidentally "Dizzy" and "Daffy" Dean were brothers, major
> >>> figures in St. Louis baseball in the 1930s or so. No "Dixie."
>
> 'Godfrey' Daniels

That's different -- merely a W. C. Fields euphemism. I suspect he said
the actual words when he did his act on the vaudeville stage.

Likewise in "Water? Never touch the stuff. Fish fornicate in it."

[bill van]

In article <e12ub4...@mid.individual.net>, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca>
wrote:

> On 2016-08-11 1:13 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 2016-Aug-11 09:57, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> On 11/08/2016 3:59 AM, Whiskers wrote:
> >>
> >>> 'Dusty' clearly alludes to the dust endemic in flour mills.
> >>
> >> More likely that the miller's clothing was white with flour.
> >>
> > People were very conscious of the flour dust in mills, because in the
> > presence of a naked flame it's explosive.
> >
> You don't even need a naked flame for an explosion. Friction can be
> enough to set it off.

Yes. Such explosions used to occur once in a while in Prairie grain
elevators.

We had a couple of fatal explosions in British Columbia sawmills a few
years ago, which turned out to be an indirect effect of climate change.

Winters here no longer have the sustained cold periods -- at least three
weeks at minus 30 C or colder -- needed to keep the population of
mountain pine beetles under control. The resulting plague of these
beetles destroyed millions of hectares of pine forests. There was an
effort to process the dead pines in sawmills while the wood remained
usable, but the dead trees produced more dust than trees that are
harvested live, and mills that did not take extraordinary measures to
reduce accumulating dust put themselves at risk of explosions. All it
took was a spark, in a large open work space full of electrical
equipment.
--
bill

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

cock-up


--
athel

[grabber]

An eminently sensible suggestion. Far too sensible, alas, for the Young
Ones.

[Ross]

But why with "Moore"? We're looking for appropriateness
of particular nicknames to particular surnames.

The stew (1935-) was almost certainly named for the comic strip
character (1913-), although what Jiggs most loved to eat at
his place was corned beef and cabbage.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Aug-11 23:17, CDB wrote:
>
> "And sae to wean oor wee cat frae aff its dinty fare,
> We sent it to an oothoose, and fed it verra spare"

I was tempted to paste that to the wall above our cats' food bowl, but I
don't think the cats can read.

[Katy Jennison]

On 12/08/2016 02:34, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2016-Aug-11 23:17, CDB wrote:
>>
>> "And sae to wean oor wee cat frae aff its dinty fare,
>> We sent it to an oothoose, and fed it verra spare"
>
> I was tempted to paste that to the wall above our cats' food bowl, but I
> don't think the cats can read.
>

"Wean" must be pronounced with two syllables there. I think of the
two-syllable pronunciation for the noun "wean" (meaning "child"), but
not for the verb.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter T. Daniels]

But a wee-un might not be weaned yet!

And then there were the Weans (two syllabies), as future archeologists called
the peoples who ubiquitously identified themselves as "US."

[CDB]

On 8/11/2016 5:12 PM, Ross wrote:

In this highly speculative line of thought, "Dinty Moore" would have
been the real nickname of a real person, or "Dinty" Something would:
someone known to the writer, or a local character recognised by his
first audience. Its use as a nickname could start from that point, or
come a little later from the name of the stew. Probably both, in fact.

[CDB]

On 8/12/2016 5:15 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:

> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> CDB wrote:

>>> "And sae to wean oor wee cat frae aff its dinty fare, We sent it
>>> to an oothoose, and fed it verra spare"

>> I was tempted to paste that to the wall above our cats' food bowl,
>> but I don't think the cats can read.

> "Wean" must be pronounced with two syllables there. I think of the
> two-syllable pronunciation for the noun "wean" (meaning "child"), but
> not for the verb.

How would you scan the lines? I think they can be read as

"And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT frae AFF its DINty FARE,
We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE, and FED it VERRa SPARE".

That's a very simple way of showing scansion. The emphasis on "TO", as
I read it, is more a matter of length than stress: it almost becomes "TAE".

[CDB]

On 8/12/2016 8:43 AM, CDB wrote:

[because Dinty]

> In this highly speculative line of thought, "Dinty Moore" would have
> been the real nickname of a real person, or "Dinty" Something
> would: someone known to the writer, or a local character recognised
> by his first audience. Its use as a nickname could start from that
> point, or come a little later from the name of the stew. Probably
> both, in fact.

In view of the current debate, I want to say that I sent this message in
proper form, having clicked "rewrap" but having then added a line or so
to the text. In the list, it appears with page-wide lines (although it
showed up in this panel as It had been sent). Is that how others see it?

I've been thinking about possible reasons for calling someone "Dainty".
Maybe, when you passed the jug, he would wipe the mouth on his sleeve
before drinking. Maybe he carried a handkerchief.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-08-12 01:34:20 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 2016-Aug-11 23:17, CDB wrote:
>>
>> "And sae to wean oor wee cat frae aff its dinty fare,
>> We sent it to an oothoose, and fed it verra spare"
>
> I was tempted to paste that to the wall above our cats' food bowl, but I
> don't think the cats can read.

I think they probably can, but don't want you to realize that they can.
On the other hand they may have difficulty with Lowland Scots.


--
athel

[Katy Jennison]

OK, but then you have to give the word "wee" a double-syllable length,
as it were.

--
Katy Jennison

[Whiskers]

On 2016-08-12, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> In view of the current debate, I want to say that I sent this message in
> proper form, having clicked "rewrap" but having then added a line or so
> to the text. In the list, it appears with page-wide lines (although it
> showed up in this panel as It had been sent). Is that how others see it?

[...]

I don't know what list you're referring to, but here's how your post
looks to me
<http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2016-08-1218-14-07.php>

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[David Kleinecke]

I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables

And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
frae AFF its DINty FARE,
We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
and FED it VERRa SPARE".

I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether it has a
name.

[Jack Campin]

> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
> it has a name.

It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[David Kleinecke]

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:24:29 AM UTC-7, Jack Campin wrote:
> > I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
> > And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
> > frae AFF its DINty FARE,
> > We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
> > and FED it VERRa SPARE".
> > I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
> > it has a name.
>
> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".

Basically you must be right - sing it to the same tune, etc.

But there is a minor deviation. In the hymn it is clear that the
last syllable of the odd numbered lines is unstressed but in this
little poem those last syllables - CAT and HOOSE are clearly
stressed. Were I writing a treatise on metrics I would recognize
this a different although closely related meter.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <nokokt$1mgs$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <belle...@gmail.com>
wrote:

This post showed up as above, with the exception that one small word
"to" was by itself on one line, but when I made the window larger, it
was as above.

--
charles

[bill van]

In article <ctbishop-DDA305...@news.individual.net>,

Exactly the same experience here, using the same newsreader you have.
The problem line was the one with the indentation before "Maybe". It
caused the maximum line length to be exceeded by one space.
--
bill

[Jerry Friedman]

I think that's what's going on. The whole poem contains many lines like
that.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ReU3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA294

When I'm more awake, I may check whether the author always uses the long
vowels for those monosyllabic feet.

--
Jerry Friedman almost wrote "lang".
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

[Jerry Friedman]

On 8/12/16 12:24 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
>> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
>> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
>> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
>> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
>> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
>> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
>> it has a name.
>
> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".

Which I don't know, but "Sing a Song of Sixpence" seems to have the same
meter.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-08-12 18:44:37 +0000, David Kleinecke said:

> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:24:29 AM UTC-7, Jack Campin wrote:
>>> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
>>> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
>>> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
>>> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
>>> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
>>> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
>>> it has a name.
>>
>> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".
>
> Basically you must be right - sing it to the same tune, etc.
>
> But there is a minor deviation. In the hymn it is clear that the
> last syllable of the odd numbered lines is unstressed but in this
> little poem those last syllables - CAT and HOOSE are clearly
> stressed.

I'll give you CAT but not HOOSE. In British English "outhouse" is
stressed on the "out".

> Were I writing a treatise on metrics I would recognize
> this a different although closely related meter.

--
athel

[CDB]

On 8/13/2016 12:36 AM, bill van wrote:
> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> CDB wrote:

>>> [because Dinty]

>>>> In this highly speculative line of thought, "Dinty Moore" would
>>>> have been the real nickname of a real person, or "Dinty"
>>>> Something would: someone known to the writer, or a local
>>>> character recognised by his first audience. Its use as a
>>>> nickname could start from that point, or come a little later
>>>> from the name of the stew. Probably both, in fact.

>>> In view of the current debate, I want to say that I sent this
>>> message in proper form, having clicked "rewrap" but having then
>>> added a line or so to the text. In the list, it appears with

>>> page-wide lines (although it showed up in this panel as it had

>>> been sent). Is that how others see it?

>>> I've been thinking about possible reasons for calling someone
>>> "Dainty". Maybe, when you passed the jug, he would wipe the mouth
>>> on his sleeve before drinking. Maybe he carried a handkerchief.

>> This post showed up as above, with the exception that one small
>> word "to" was by itself on one line, but when I made the window
>> larger, it was as above.

> Exactly the same experience here, using the same newsreader you
> have. The problem line was the one with the indentation before
> "Maybe". It caused the maximum line length to be exceeded by one
> space.

Thank you both. I'm relieved to hear that my posts don't explode
spectacularly on delivery.


>

[Charles Bishop]

In article <e17uhb...@mid.individual.net>,

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2016-08-12 18:44:37 +0000, David Kleinecke said:
>
> > On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:24:29 AM UTC-7, Jack Campin wrote:
> >>> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
> >>> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
> >>> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
> >>> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
> >>> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
> >>> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
> >>> it has a name.
> >>
> >> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".
> >
> > Basically you must be right - sing it to the same tune, etc.
> >
> > But there is a minor deviation. In the hymn it is clear that the
> > last syllable of the odd numbered lines is unstressed but in this
> > little poem those last syllables - CAT and HOOSE are clearly
> > stressed.
>
> I'll give you CAT but not HOOSE. In British English "outhouse" is
> stressed on the "out".

Just to clarify, is BrE "outhouse" an outbuilding, or shed and not a
privvy (AmE)?

>
> > Were I writing a treatise on metrics I would recognize
> > this a different although closely related meter.

--

charles

[David Kleinecke]

This is "black bird" versus "blackbird". Many phonologist set
up a secondary stress. "Outhouse" my English is apparently exactly
like BrE but there is a "secondary stress" on "house". Depends on
one's phonological theory.

Anyway poetic meter and phonology are only in approximate agreement
and the sheer length "house" might be enough to make it pass for
stressed.

PS: "Sing a song of six pence" is different because the lines lack
an unstressed initial syllable. In the this case "blackbirds" is
there overtly. But a third very similar meter.

[Jerry Friedman]

That's true, so I missed one life's few opportunities to say "acephalous".

[Robert Bannister]

On 13/08/2016 2:54 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2016-08-12 18:44:37 +0000, David Kleinecke said:
>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:24:29 AM UTC-7, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
>>>> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
>>>> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
>>>> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
>>>> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
>>>> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
>>>> it has a name.
>>>
>>> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".
>>
>> Basically you must be right - sing it to the same tune, etc.
>>
>> But there is a minor deviation. In the hymn it is clear that the
>> last syllable of the odd numbered lines is unstressed but in this
>> little poem those last syllables - CAT and HOOSE are clearly
>> stressed.
>
> I'll give you CAT but not HOOSE. In British English "outhouse" is
> stressed on the "out".

My feeling is that equal stress is just as possible.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

On 13/08/2016 11:05 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article <e17uhb...@mid.individual.net>,
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-12 18:44:37 +0000, David Kleinecke said:
>>
>>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:24:29 AM UTC-7, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>> I think the meter requires two successive stressed syllables
>>>>> And SAE to WEAN oor WEE CAT
>>>>> frae AFF its DINty FARE,
>>>>> We SENT it TO an OOTHOOSE,
>>>>> and FED it VERRa SPARE".
>>>>> I dont think I have ever seen that before and wonder whether
>>>>> it has a name.
>>>>
>>>> It's the same metre as "The Church's One Foundation".
>>>
>>> Basically you must be right - sing it to the same tune, etc.
>>>
>>> But there is a minor deviation. In the hymn it is clear that the
>>> last syllable of the odd numbered lines is unstressed but in this
>>> little poem those last syllables - CAT and HOOSE are clearly
>>> stressed.
>>
>> I'll give you CAT but not HOOSE. In British English "outhouse" is
>> stressed on the "out".
>
> Just to clarify, is BrE "outhouse" an outbuilding, or shed and not a
> privvy (AmE)?

To my mind, it could be any of those. However, these days, where most of
us do not live on farms that generally have a number of outbuildings,
the toilet meaning is the most likely. I still wouldn't rule out the
other possibilities, though.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <e19sei...@mid.individual.net>,

But what about when the "poem" was written? I would hope the cat was put
into an outbuilding rather than a privvy.

--
charles