What is a "Swell idea" ?
asker
in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
thx
a
Donna Richoux
Here's how to find out.
Go to http://www.m-w.com/
Type swell in the box where it says "Dictionary" and click "Look it up".
Out of the list of choices, choose "adjective" because you are asking
about "a swell idea" not "to swell".
Read definition.
--
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Richard Fontana
> people, tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
> in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
"Swell" is archaic slang corresponding very roughly to more recent slang
expressions such as "cool", "sweet", etc. See a dictionary.
Heinous
Well generally speaking, people seldom use the word "swell" formally. In
informal speech "swell" usually means "excellent" or "wonderful" or
"fantastic". So if one uses it in conjunction with another word, such as
"time" then one is saying "I had a fantastic time last night", in an
informal manner. The same applies to "idea"--"I had a swell idea" is an
informal way of saying "I had a wonderful idea".
That is my opinion on the word anyway, I hope that is helps you asker.
Regards,
Heinous
"asker" <asker...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mM4N7.2036$RL6....@news.cpqcorp.net...
N.Mitchum
----
> tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
> in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
----
> thx
>....
yvwis
----NM
Pat Durkin
"N.Mitchum" <aj...@lafn.org> wrote in message news:3C0536...@lafn.org...
> asker wrote:
> ----
> > tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
> > in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
> >....
>
> Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
>
for the life of me... Oswald? Oscar?) use swell in almost every episode?
I may be converting his expression (whatever it is) into Americanese
mentally. But it seems to me that when he hears that Hyacinth is coming to
visit, or doing another "I'm a Bouquet" thing, he says "Oh, Swell!" In
these cases, "swell" is used with the same sense of dismay and resignation
as "Oh, wonderful!" Maybe by this time in a modern episode he might say,
with a monstrous shrug, "Whatever".
asker
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>people, tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
>in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
>thx
From the COD:
swell, adj.
1 esp. N.Amer. colloq. fine, splendid, excellent.
2 archaic colloq. smart, fashionable.
Charles Riggs
Jacqui
> Doesn't Hyacinth's brother-in-law (can't remember Daisy's husband's
name,
> for the life of me... Oswald? Oscar?)
Onslow.
Jac
Tony Cooper
or self-designated to be important - person? Similar to a
toff? While it's certainly a reach, "a swell idea" could be
the suggestion of such a person.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
satchi
"N.Mitchum" wrote:
>
> asker wrote:
> ----
> > tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
> > in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
> >....
>
> Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
>
Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
It's sounds sort of 1940's to me. I picture Fred Astaire saying
"Golly, that's swell" to Ginger Rogers, or Judy Garland and
Micky Rooney's having a "swell" time at the dance.
Allswellthatendswell
Satchi
http://www.bombhumor.com
Skitt
"satchi" <sat...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C0643BF...@mindspring.com...
Cole Porter wrote (in 1956) "Well Did You Evah?"
A bit of it went:
Have you heard, among this clan,
I am called "The forgotten man"?
Well, did you evah?
What a swell party this is!
Have you heard the story of
Dexter boy being gypped by love?
Well, did you evah!
What a swell party this is!
It was sung by Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra in the movie "High Society".
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Brian Wickham
wrote:
Even more dated than that. Rodgers and Hart wrote "Thou Swell" for a
show in 1927, and I believe there is a dialogue line in "42nd Street"
where Ruby Keeler says, "It was swell of you to come."
Someone thought there might be a connection to 'swelled head' but I
doubt it. There is an old Vaudeville blackout joke where a pretty
girl bats her eyes and says to the comic, "Want to see something
swell?" then hands him a dry sponge and says, "Stick this in water."
The joke wouldn't work if there was already a connection to something
swelling in size.
Brizn Wickham
Steve Hayes
>> Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
>>
>
>Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
>It's sounds sort of 1940's to me. I picture Fred Astaire saying
>"Golly, that's swell" to Ginger Rogers, or Judy Garland and
>Micky Rooney's having a "swell" time at the dance.
Probably. I learnt it from reading the Hardy boys books which weren't
specially bowdlerized for export like that Harry Potter ones. It wasn't a word
I used, but I knew what it meant.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Isn't there also a usage of "swell" meaning an important -
>or self-designated to be important - person? Similar to a
>toff? While it's certainly a reach, "a swell idea" could be
>the suggestion of such a person.
I think such a person might be referred to as "a swell". Biy like a toff, I
suppose, but slightly lower on the social scale.
Brian Wickham
wrote:
>
>"satchi" <sat...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:3C0643BF...@mindspring.com...
>>
>>
>> "N.Mitchum" wrote:
>> >
>> > asker wrote:
>> > ----
>> > > tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
>> > > in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
>> > >....
>> >
>> > Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
>> >
>>
>> Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
>> It's sounds sort of 1940's to me. I picture Fred Astaire saying
>> "Golly, that's swell" to Ginger Rogers, or Judy Garland and
>> Micky Rooney's having a "swell" time at the dance.
>
>Cole Porter wrote (in 1956) "Well Did You Evah?"
>
>A bit of it went:
>
>Have you heard, among this clan,
>I am called "The forgotten man"?
>Well, did you evah?
>What a swell party this is!
Actually, Porter wrote "Well Did You Evah?" in 1939 and dusted it off
with updated lyrics (the original rhymed 'smart' with 'Rodgers &
Hart') for the 1956 movie "High Society".
But, 'swell' was still current in the 1950s.
Brian Wickham
N.Mitchum
----
> > Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
>
> Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
Yes, along with "neat" and "keen." Not obsolete however.
----NM
Richard Fontana
Crazy talk! "Neat" is still totally current, hep and fashionable. But
"swell" and "keen" are completely dead, other than in jocular retro usage.
"Neato keeno" (and "neato" for that matter) are long dead too. (Was
"keen" just restricted to California?)
satchi
Skitt wrote:
>
> "satchi" <sat...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3C0643BF...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >
> > "N.Mitchum" wrote:
> > >
> > > asker wrote:
> > > ----
> > > > tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
> > > > in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
> > > >....
> > >
> > > Swell: [slang] first-rate, excellent. It's in the dictionary.
> > >
> >
> > Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
> > It's sounds sort of 1940's to me. I picture Fred Astaire saying
> > "Golly, that's swell" to Ginger Rogers, or Judy Garland and
> > Micky Rooney's having a "swell" time at the dance.
>
> Cole Porter wrote (in 1956) "Well Did You Evah?"
>
> A bit of it went:
>
> Have you heard, among this clan,
> I am called "The forgotten man"?
> Well, did you evah?
> What a swell party this is!
> Have you heard the story of
> Dexter boy being gypped by love?
> Well, did you evah!
> What a swell party this is!
>
Did you ever get the feeling that ya wanted to go
and then ya got the feeling that ya wanted to stay...
Jimmy Durante?
My father always used to sing/speak that.
Satchi
http://www.bombhumor.com
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> Actually, Porter wrote "Well Did You Evah?" in 1939 and dusted it off
> with updated lyrics (the original rhymed 'smart' with 'Rodgers &
> Hart') for the 1956 movie "High Society".
>
> But, 'swell' was still current in the 1950s.
I'd say Meredith Willson put the bullet through its heart in
"Trouble [in River City]" from *The Music Man*. "Swell" was new
slang in the era in which the musical was set, and, to me at least,
the way Robert Preston sneered the word, as preserved in the movie,
rendered it archaic for the era in which the musical was actually
performed.
satchi
This may be further back, but I remember my Grandmother using the word
"grand" quite often to describe something good. "What a grand idea..."
Even as a very young child I always thought the description was odd in
some way.
Satchi
http://www.bombhumor.com
Tony Cooper
>
> This may be further back, but I remember my Grandmother using the word
> "grand" quite often to describe something good. "What a grand idea..."
> Even as a very young child I always thought the description was odd in
> some way.
"It's a grand thing." was a common expression in our house.
"It's pure grand." would have been even better. "What kind
of grand scheme are you up to now?" meant my uncles had
caught on to us.
satchi
Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> satchi wrote:
> >
> > This may be further back, but I remember my Grandmother using the word
> > "grand" quite often to describe something good. "What a grand idea..."
> > Even as a very young child I always thought the description was odd in
> > some way.
>
> "It's a grand thing." was a common expression in our house.
> "It's pure grand." would have been even better. "What kind
> of grand scheme are you up to now?" meant my uncles had
> caught on to us.
Aha! That would explain it, she was my *grand* mother!
I wish she'd been a piano.
She didn't like me.
Satchi
http://www.bombhumor.com
Charles Riggs
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:04:37 +0530, "asker" <asker...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >people, tell me what's a "Swell idea". I've seen the word "Swell" being used
>> >in conjuction with other words as well. Can someone clarify?
>> >thx
>>
>> From the COD:
>>
>> swell, adj.
>> 1 esp. N.Amer. colloq. fine, splendid, excellent.
>> 2 archaic colloq. smart, fashionable.
>>
>Isn't there also a usage of "swell" meaning an important -
>or self-designated to be important - person?
There is indeed and if we look beyond an ordinary dic like the COD, we
find in the OED, under "swell":
9. colloq., orig. slang. A fashionably or stylishly dressed person;
hence, a person of good social position, a highly distinguished
person.
>Similar to a toff?
Nearly synonymous, according to the OED:
toff a. An appellation, orig. given by the lower classes, to a person
who is stylishly dressed or who has a smart appearance; a swell;
hence, one of the well-to-do, a ‘nob’.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
>Brian Wickham wrote:
>> But, 'swell' was still current in the 1950s.
>
>I'd say Meredith Willson put the bullet through its heart in
>"Trouble [in River City]" from *The Music Man*. "Swell" was new
>slang in the era in which the musical was set, and, to me at least,
>the way Robert Preston sneered the word, as preserved in the movie,
>rendered it archaic for the era in which the musical was actually
>performed.
No cigar this time, Bob. From the OED, we see it dates back to at
least 1786:
1786 Sessions Papers 13 Dec. 92/2 Here is a swell a coming. What is
the meaning of that?悠 do not know what meaning they give to it,
without it is a gentleman.
Charles Riggs
arovo
brewing. in that case a swell party might be one that's getting bigger and
better. otherwise it might be turbulent, like a riot. grand, even.
Skitt wrote in message <9u6em3$6k2lp$1...@ID-61580.news.dfncis.de>...
James MacLeod
(...)
There is an old Vaudeville blackout joke where a pretty
> girl bats her eyes and says to the comic, "Want to see something
> swell?" then hands him a dry sponge and says, "Stick this in water."
> The joke wouldn't work if there was already a connection to something
> swelling in size.
Do you think so? I would have taken that to be part of a possible
third, and very risque meaning <g>.
To speak about something entirely different: I have a vague memory of
Shelly Winters singing with another woman in the early sixties (both
of them padded so as to look outrageously preggers), the well-known
song: 'We're a Couple of Swells'. I seem to recall rocking with
laughter, but I am a lot older and wiser now.
JAMES MACELOD.
Donna Richoux
>
> Someone thought there might be a connection to 'swelled head' but I
> doubt it. There is an old Vaudeville blackout joke where a pretty
> girl bats her eyes and says to the comic, "Want to see something
> swell?" then hands him a dry sponge and says, "Stick this in water."
> The joke wouldn't work if there was already a connection to something
> swelling in size.
You meant to say "if there wasn't," right? Or, "unless there was"? (Same
meaning.)
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Donna Richoux
A. That's a noun, though. What do they say for adjective?
B. Bob was addressing, not the origin, but the time when the adjective
"swell" became old-fashioned and dated. For him, ~1960.
C. By the way, Google does show a lot of people using "swell" as a
straightforward adjective, even after you remove the quotes and the puns
and the jeers and so on. It still can be used in way that is not
apparently mocking or nostalgic or anything. It's not possible to get a
count or a proportion, though. Or to know the biographical details of
the people who use it so (elderly?).
Joe Manfre
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, N.Mitchum wrote:
>
>> satchi wrote:
>> > Isn't the use of "swell" in the above context a bit out of date?
>>
>> Yes, along with "neat" and "keen." Not obsolete however.
>
> Crazy talk! "Neat" is still totally current, hep and fashionable.
> But "swell" and "keen" are completely dead, other than in jocular
> retro usage. "Neato keeno" (and "neato" for that matter) are long
> dead too. (Was "keen" just restricted to California?)
Let's not forget "peachy keen", which some humans of the post-Tet-
Offensive-pre-Bicentennial generation still like to use, albeit
with at least a hint of jocular retro usage. This seems to be done
mostly by female humans of said generation. Both male and female
humans of that generation use "nifty" from time to time as well.
JM
--
Joe Manfre, Hyattsville, Maryland. www.manfre-land.com
"Hell is full of lairs and ideits." -- Kurt Stocklmeir
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:23:21 -0500, Robert Lieblich
> > <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >I'd say Meredith Willson put the bullet through its heart in
> > >"Trouble [in River City]" from *The Music Man*. "Swell" was new
> > >slang in the era in which the musical was set, and, to me at
> > >least, the way Robert Preston sneered the word, as preserved in
> > >the movie, rendered it archaic for the era in which the musical
> > >was actually performed.
> >
> > No cigar this time, Bob. From the OED, we see it dates back to at
> > least 1786:
[snip]
> B. Bob was addressing, not the origin, but the time when the adjective
> "swell" became old-fashioned and dated. For him, ~1960.
No, Bob said that it was "new slang in the era in which the musical
was set", which would be, I believe, 1912. Of course, the musical
also refers to _Captain Billy's Whiz Bang_, which wasn't published
until 1919, so I wouldn't count on it too much for authenticity.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Voting in the House of
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |Representatives is done by means of a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |little plastic card with a magnetic
|strip on the back--like a VISA card,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |but with no, that is, absolutely
(650)857-7572 |*no*, spending limit.
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Probably. I learnt it from reading the Hardy boys books which
> weren't specially bowdlerized for export like that Harry Potter
> ones.
How "bowdlerized"? There was some vocabulary substitution, but
nothing I would call expurgation.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The General Theorem of Usenet
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |Information: If you really want to
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |know the definitive answer, post
|the wrong information, and wait for
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |someone to come by and explain in
(650)857-7572 |excruciating detail precisely how
|wrong you are.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Eric The Read
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Richard Fontana (rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu) wrote:
>
> > Crazy talk! "Neat" is still totally current, hep and fashionable.
> > But "swell" and "keen" are completely dead, other than in jocular
> > retro usage. "Neato keeno" (and "neato" for that matter) are long
> > dead too. (Was "keen" just restricted to California?)
>
> Let's not forget "peachy keen",
"with cream in between". Why? Who knows.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When all else fails, give the
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |customer what they ask for. This
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |is strong medicine and rarely needs
|to be repeated.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Skitt
> Did you ever get the feeling that ya wanted to go
> and then ya got the feeling that ya wanted to stay...
>
> Jimmy Durante?
>
> My father always used to sing/speak that.
Before my time, I think. Google says that you are right about Jimmy
Durante, though.
Donna Richoux
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>
> > Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:23:21 -0500, Robert Lieblich
> > > <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'd say Meredith Willson put the bullet through its heart in
> > > >"Trouble [in River City]" from *The Music Man*. "Swell" was new
> > > >slang in the era in which the musical was set, and, to me at
> > > >least, the way Robert Preston sneered the word, as preserved in
> > > >the movie, rendered it archaic for the era in which the musical
> > > >was actually performed.
> > >
> > > No cigar this time, Bob. From the OED, we see it dates back to at
> > > least 1786:
>
> [snip]
>
> > B. Bob was addressing, not the origin, but the time when the adjective
> > "swell" became old-fashioned and dated. For him, ~1960.
>
> No, Bob said that it was "new slang in the era in which the musical
> was set", which would be, I believe, 1912. Of course, the musical
> also refers to _Captain Billy's Whiz Bang_, which wasn't published
> until 1919, so I wouldn't count on it too much for authenticity.
All right, Bob does say that, because Meredith Willson says that.
Professor Harold Hill, addressing the crowd, says, "Are certain words
creeping into his vocabulary? Words like -- 'swell!'" ("TROUBLE,
trouble, trouble!") "And -- so's your old man!" Etc. Willson is saying
that "swell" is a new word to rural middle-class Iowa. (And as you say,
we've caught him out in a mistake before, so who knows if he's right.)
Cassell's says that "swell" as an adjective goes back to the early 19th
century *as an underworld term*. We don't have any data on its
migration.
But still, Bob's major point was not about how old the word was in
Harold Hill's day, but how the play shaped Bob's personal attitude
towards the word. What he said was:
>> I'd say Meredith Willson put the bullet through its heart in
>> "Trouble [in River City]" from *The Music Man*. "Swell" was new
>> slang in the era in which the musical was set, and, to me at least,
>> the way Robert Preston sneered the word, as preserved in the movie,
>> rendered it archaic for the era in which the musical was actually
>> performed.
By the way, I don't agree, myself; I found it amusing that Prof. Hill
identified "swell" as a new word and that his listeners act shocked by
it, but I didn't attach any revulsion to it myself in consequence.
My personal experience is that it's a word that I've heard used
sarcastically far more than I've heard straight. Like "That's just
ducky," althought that's even more so. In some universe, "ducky" must
mean "good," but does anyone actually say it that way?
Brian Wickham
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>Crazy talk! "Neat" is still totally current, hep and fashionable. But
>"swell" and "keen" are completely dead, other than in jocular retro usage.
>"Neato keeno" (and "neato" for that matter) are long dead too. (Was
>"keen" just restricted to California?)
>
"Neat" was very big with pre-teens in NYC in the early-to-mid 1950s.
"Keen" had a brief run, I believe just before "neat."
Brian Wickham
>
>Let's not forget "peachy keen", which some humans of the post-Tet-
>Offensive-pre-Bicentennial generation still like to use, albeit
>with at least a hint of jocular retro usage. This seems to be done
>mostly by female humans of said generation. Both male and female
>humans of that generation use "nifty" from time to time as well.
>
>
My sister, who was a teenager in the 1940s was fond of using "peachy
keen" and sometimes added "with a cherry on top." It was used
jocularly then, and she still utters it now, on occasion.
Brian Wickham
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
> 1786 Sessions Papers 13 Dec. 92/2 Here is a swell a coming. What is
>the meaning of that?悠 do not know what meaning they give to it,
>without it is a gentleman.
>
It could be a groundswell or tide of events or opinion. Without the
context all are at sea.
Brian Wickham
wrote:
>
>This may be further back, but I remember my Grandmother using the word
>"grand" quite often to describe something good. "What a grand idea..."
>Even as a very young child I always thought the description was odd in
>some way.
I hear "grand" all the time whenever I am in Co. Cork, Ireland. It
may be used all over Ireland but I can't say for sure. They toss it
off quite easily as in, "Oh yes, that's grand." My niece in London
uses "brilliant" the same way. When I was young (1950s) I used to
hear Irish people in NYC use "grand".
Brian Wickham
wrote:
Exactly my point. If the slang meaning already has a connection to
swelling then you can't get much mileage out of a joke that plays on
swelling. If you say to an audience "Want to see something swell?"
and they form the idea in their minds that there is already a
connection to something getting bigger then the joke can't work. The
point was to show that the slang use had nothing to do with the idea
of something swelling.
Padraig Breathnach
>I hear "grand" all the time whenever I am in Co. Cork, Ireland. It
>may be used all over Ireland but I can't say for sure. They toss it
>off quite easily as in, "Oh yes, that's grand." My niece in London
>uses "brilliant" the same way. When I was young (1950s) I used to
>hear Irish people in NYC use "grand".
It's used all over Ireland, and is not considered substandard:
- It's a grand day;
- I'm feeling grand;
- That was a grand bit of dinner, that was;
- Cork is a grand place;
- My latest telephone bill was a grand.
PB
Brian Wickham
wrote:
Absolutety not! How can you surprise them with the punch line if they
already know that you are referring to something swelling? The
audience has to believe that there are two totally different meanings
with no connection whatsoever. The context says this is sexual, and
that's what the audience hears, but the punch line throws the audience
a curve by bringing in a disconnected thought that still makes sense.
Another aspect of the joke is that it seems to the audience that they
are about to witness a stepping-over of the line of community mores.
This heightens the effect of the punchline when it turns out to be
nothing of the sort. The fact that the audience reads all this sexual
material into the setup means that "swell" stands alone in its slang,
and disreputable, usage. And, apparently the joke still works!
Richard Fontana
OED on "neat":
11.
a. slang. In ironical use: Rare, fine.
* 1827 T. Creevey in C. Papers (1904) II. 138 So much for my new
friend! Is he not a neat one?
* 1828 T. Creevey in C. Papers 186 His wife seems to have been quite
as neat an article as his sister.
b. colloq. Excellent, desirable, attractive.
* 1934 J. T. Farrell Calico Shoes 54 A girl in a two-piece bathing
suit without brassire walked by them. `Oh, baby, you can make me
so happy!' Don sing-songed. `Neat!' Jack appraised;
* 1942 Berrey & Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang /icons/sect.gif 29/4
Excellent; first-rate...neat.
* 1947 Sat. Rev. (U.S.) 10 May 26/1 Each of these adjoining rooms
has a radio in it, which they find `neat' and I don't.
* 1972 D. Westheimer Over Edge (1974) i. 10 `I could drive you on
into Idyllwild if you want...' `That would be neat.'
* 1974 Washington Post 24 Feb. H. 13/5 I've passed up some neat
dinner invitations.
OED on "keen":
d. Jolly good, very nice, splendid. colloq. (orig. U.S.).
* 1914 High Jinks, jr. Choice Slang 14 Keen, excellent... `A keen
day.' `A keen time.'
* 1925 College Humor Aug. 76/1 Keen, fine, attractive, splendid.
* 1940 New Yorker 16 Nov. 19/3 `My mother's going to buy me four new
dresses.' ..`That's keen.'
* 1948 Hearst's International Dec. 162/3 `What are you studying at
school?' `Journalism.' `That sounds keen,' said Sally.
* 1964 Punch 8 July 38/1 It's fab, Henchcliffe, it's gear, moody,
groovy, keen and withitly gogo.
* 1968 N. Fleming Counter Paradise vi. 87 He slowed to a standstill
beside the second flag. `Keen,' he said.
OED on "crazy":
d. slang (orig. U.S.).
a. Of music, esp. jazz: unrestrained, wild; exciting.
b. Hence as a term of approbation: excellent, admirable, satisfying.
Cf. cool a. 4 e.
* 1927 Melody Maker June 573/2 Leath has established her reputation
as a..first-class artist in `Crazy Words, Crazy Tune'.
* 1933 Melody Maker June 573/2 Leath has established her reputation
as a..first-class artist in `Crazy Words, Crazy Tune 2 Sept. 2
Arthur Roseberry Goes All `Crazy'.
* 1935 Hot News Apr. 13/1 He is a crazy player, and a crazier
singer.
* 1935 Hot News, Apr. 13/1 `Jamaica Shout' is, I think, the craziest
record.
* 1935 Hot News, Apr. 13/1 Where musicians are concerned..if I say a
man is crazy you may be sure that I think he is very, very good.
* 1953 [See cool a. 4 e].
* 1956 New Yorker 8 Dec. 159 (Advt.), Hi Fi can turn your bachelor
apartment into a Harem..and the crazy part is you don't have to be
an engineer to operate H. H. Scott components.
* 1959 Punch 14 Oct. 319 The swing-cats sway, the hipsters tap their
feet As Victor pounds his low-down crazy beat.
* 1962 J. Baldwin Another Country (1963) ii. iii. 274 She laughed.
`Black Label [Scotch]?' `Crazy.'
Richard Fontana
peachy-keen adj. U.S. slang (see quot. 1960).
* 1960 Wentworth & Flexner Dict. Amer. Slang 379/2 Peachy-keen adj.
1 Excellent; fine... 2 All right; fair; not good enough to warrant
enthusiasm but adequate.
* 1969 N. Cohn AWopBopaLooBop (1970) v. 50 We dig America. We think
it's really peachy-keen.
* 1975 J. Grady Shadow of Condor (1976) iii. 52 Everything in
Montana is peachy keen.
Tony Cooper
My daughter (in her 30s) used to say "cool beans" in the
same context. I notice lately that she says simply
"beans". Evidently the meaning is the same. I have no idea
of the origin, but the meaning is clear by the way she says
it.
Richard Fontana
> My daughter (in her 30s) used to say "cool beans" in the
> same context. I notice lately that she says simply
> "beans". Evidently the meaning is the same. I have no idea
> of the origin, but the meaning is clear by the way she says
> it.
Late 30s, right?
Tony Cooper
Not quite middle. Born January, 1967.
Richard Fontana
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > My daughter (in her 30s) used to say "cool beans" in the
> > > same context. I notice lately that she says simply
> > > "beans". Evidently the meaning is the same. I have no idea
> > > of the origin, but the meaning is clear by the way she says
> > > it.
> >
> > Late 30s, right?
>
> Not quite middle. Born January, 1967.
I see. Pre-Tet. Transitional group. Talks like us, but dresses like
them. But the use of "cool beans" shows that there are stronger
linguistic links to the old world than we thought.
Note that "cool beans" has basically nothing to do with the mysterious
history of "cool".
Richard Fontana
> >
> >Let's not forget "peachy keen", which some humans of the post-Tet-
> >Offensive-pre-Bicentennial generation still like to use, albeit
> >with at least a hint of jocular retro usage.
Incidentally, I have decided on the proper name for the
post-Tet-Offensive-pre-Bicentennial generation:
"The Other Greatest Generation". TOGG for short. Whether you use the
cot vowel, caught vowel, or both depends on your dialect. I use cot.
For those who like to be formal about such things, TOGG is defined as
including those persons born between 12:01 AM, January 31, 1968, and
11:59 PM, July 4, 1976. A limited number of honorary memberships are
available, however.
Donna Richoux
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:04:40 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:
>
> >Brian Wickham <bwic...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Someone thought there might be a connection to 'swelled head' but I
> >> doubt it. There is an old Vaudeville blackout joke where a pretty
> >> girl bats her eyes and says to the comic, "Want to see something
> >> swell?" then hands him a dry sponge and says, "Stick this in water."
> >
> >You meant to say "if there wasn't," right? Or, "unless there was"? (Same
> >meaning.)
> >
> >--
> >Best -- Donna Richoux
>
> Absolutety not! How can you surprise them with the punch line if they
> already know that you are referring to something swelling? The
> audience has to believe that there are two totally different meanings
> with no connection whatsoever.
Yes, and the reason I contradicted you is that you appeared to be saying
that the audience didn't have to know one of them. You said:
> >> The joke wouldn't work if there was already a connection to something
> >> swelling in size.
The joke wouldn't work unless the audience knew *both* meanings of the
word "swell," we're agreed on that, I hope. Maybe by "already' you just
meant in the last minute, whereas I was thinking of the last year or the
last century.
Now I think you are saying that there was no direct connection between
the two meanings of "swell." Swell was connected to "good," and swell
was connected to "increase in size," but the first swell was not
connected to the second swell, in the general popular consciousness. The
joke ties them together.
It's like the dumb old gag, A says to B, "Give me a ring sometime," and
B hands A a ring. Both meanings of "ring" are known to the general
public, but not usually associated.
Homographs, aren't they called? Like match and match, lime and lime --
two separate words that are so utterly different in meaning and history
as to have "no connection" even though they are pronounced and spelled
the same.
Swell and swell are more probably more closely related than those, since
the slang noun "a swell" referred to a person who was grand or prominent
-- something about size. But we never know for sure, with slang, and
there were many decades for that connection to be forgotten.
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
Brian Wickham
wrote:
>
>The joke wouldn't work unless the audience knew *both* meanings of the
>word "swell," we're agreed on that, I hope. Maybe by "already' you just
>meant in the last minute, whereas I was thinking of the last year or the
>last century.
>
>Now I think you are saying that there was no direct connection between
>the two meanings of "swell." Swell was connected to "good," and swell
>was connected to "increase in size," but the first swell was not
>connected to the second swell, in the general popular consciousness. The
>joke ties them together.
>
>It's like the dumb old gag, A says to B, "Give me a ring sometime," and
>B hands A a ring. Both meanings of "ring" are known to the general
>public, but not usually associated.
>
>Homographs, aren't they called? Like match and match, lime and lime --
>two separate words that are so utterly different in meaning and history
>as to have "no connection" even though they are pronounced and spelled
>the same.
>
>Swell and swell are more probably more closely related than those, since
>the slang noun "a swell" referred to a person who was grand or prominent
>-- something about size. But we never know for sure, with slang, and
>there were many decades for that connection to be forgotten.
>--
>Best --- Donna Richoux
>
>
Your point is well taken. We are expressing the same idea in different
terms. The wonder of English!
Jacqui
> Incidentally, I have decided on the proper name for the
> post-Tet-Offensive-pre-Bicentennial generation:
> "The Other Greatest Generation". TOGG for short. Whether you use the
> cot vowel, caught vowel, or both depends on your dialect. I use cot.
>
> For those who like to be formal about such things, TOGG is defined as
> including those persons born between 12:01 AM, January 31, 1968, and
> 11:59 PM, July 4, 1976. A limited number of honorary memberships are
> available, however.
Cool, that's me, my other half, and two (one each) of our brothers
included then. Of course over here it's more like "Sgt Pepper to The HOT
Summer" which would take us from June 1967 to August/September 1976, or
possibly Sgt Pepper to Punk which would be approximately a month longer.
Jac, a TOGG (and coincidentally also a TYG)
Skitt
"Brian Wickham" <bwic...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3c082e4a...@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> My sister, who was a teenager in the 1940s was fond of using "peachy
> keen" and sometimes added "with a cherry on top." It was used
> jocularly then, and she still utters it now, on occasion.
Didn't the "cherry on top" belong to "pretty please"? The ones I heard did.
Maria Conlon
Skitt wrote in message
>"Brian Wickham" wrote in message
>> My sister, who was a teenager in the 1940s was fond of using
"peachy
>> keen" and sometimes added "with a cherry on top." It was used
>> jocularly then, and she still utters it now, on occasion.
>Didn't the "cherry on top" belong to "pretty please"? The ones I
heard did.
Thanks, Skitt. I was trying to remember how we used to use "with a
cherry on top." You're right. The routine started with "please,"
then "pretty please," then maybe "with sugar on top," then the
cherry. It went farther than that when we were being silly. "Please"
could turn into a belly-buster banana split in no time.
Maria (Tootsie)
Brian Wickham
wrote:
>
>"Brian Wickham" <bwic...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:3c082e4a...@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
>> >
>> My sister, who was a teenager in the 1940s was fond of using "peachy
>> keen" and sometimes added "with a cherry on top." It was used
>> jocularly then, and she still utters it now, on occasion.
>
>Didn't the "cherry on top" belong to "pretty please"? The ones I heard did.
>--
I think you're right. Maybe my sister scrambled it a few times but it
definitely does go with "pretty please".
Joe Manfre
> Thanks, Skitt. I was trying to remember how we used to use "with a
> cherry on top." You're right. The routine started with "please,"
> then "pretty please," then maybe "with sugar on top," then the
> cherry. It went farther than that when we were being silly. "Please"
> could turn into a belly-buster banana split in no time.
That's interesting. When I were a lad, my mother (b. 1947) taught me
the please -> pretty please -> pretty please with sugar on top
progession that you describe, but I never heard about the "cherry on
top" extension. I wonder what the spread on that "cherry" is. (Hi,
Rey!)
JM
--
Joe Manfre, Hyattsville, Maryland.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is
the dismemberment plan." -- MegaHAL