The ugliest contraction
kevin jones
Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
If "you've" any other nominees for uglier contractions, please
post.
[Editor's note: "You'd've" is related to the above example and
therefore does not count. Nor do various related forms, such as
"they'd've" and "she'd've."]
Kevin Jones
Morse
I like this sort of contraction. One of my faves is
"Whyncha" -- for "why don't you," i.e., "why do you not."
Kate
Benjamin D Lukoff
ke...@big10.metrobbs.com (kevin jones) writes:
>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
>If "you've" any other nominees for uglier contractions, please
>post.
Ugliest visually or ugliest to the ear?
I've never seen "it'd've" in print, probably because it is not a standard
construction. (I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it, either, to
tell the truth.)
BDL
Benjamin D Lukoff
morse@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE (Morse) writes:
>I like this sort of contraction. One of my faves is
>"Whyncha" -- for "why don't you," i.e., "why do you not."
How about "Jever?" -- for "did you ever?"
BDL
Billy D'Augustine
Morse wrote:
>
> I like this sort of contraction. One of my faves is
>
> "Whyncha" -- for "why don't you," i.e., "why do you not."
>
"dunno" (don't know) and "wanna" (want to) seem to be acceptable, verbally and
written. I use both all the time, and it never phases me when I use them
in writing.
"djyaever wanna go to Europe?"
Whee!
S. Moriarity
Here's a couple:
the'nutha' ---contraction of "another"
'ite den ---"all right then"
It don't get better than they't (that)!
Morse
One from graduate school days: Zgweet.
It means, "Let's go eat."
Billy D'Augustine (az...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: it never phases me
and I immediately thought, oh, he means "fazes."
But then I realized I don't know how to spell this word or
its origin or its exact meaning. I thought "fazes" meant
"causes uneasiness." What does it mean, where does it come
from, and how do you spell it? (or is that in the a.u.e. FAQ)?
Kate
Baty
ke...@big10.metrobbs.com (kevin jones) wrote:
>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
>
>If "you've" any other nominees for uglier contractions, please
>post.
>
>
"Oun't" (rhymes with "count"): "Oun't know." "Oun't care." Drives me
nuts, and both my kids do it! We've lived in several parts of the
country and it doesn't seem to be limited to any specific geographic
area. I don't think I've ever heard "it'd've." I'll have to listen for
it.
S. Moriarity
Actually, I don't think this following contraction is at all ugly. It's
really very cool!
I's g(h)ost ---"I am going"
g'ost would be the past tense of going :)
My friends and I use it all the time.
Sean
Mark Odegard
Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed.
It sorta rhymes with "count", /kaUnt/.
In colloquial contexts, I've found myself supercontracting
"I don't" to something like I'd'nt or I'd'n, though it
varies depending on the following word:
I don't want to: I'd'n wanna /'aI*N: wan:@/
I don't know: I'd'n know /'aI*N: o/ (ide un oh ~ I dunno).
I don't care: I'd'n care /aI*N keIr/ (Id un care)
"Don't" is little more than a nasalization, with the [d] and
[t] reduced to flaps.
If you ignore the (probably inaudible) flaps, /aIaUN/
(eye oun) seems a reasonable representation. I think,
however, that we've reached the limits of what the ascii
version of IPA can do.
--
Mark Odegard. Ode...@ptel.net
Larry Krakauer
In article <4osj8j$l...@news3.realtime.net>,
Morse <morse@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE> wrote:
>I like this sort of contraction. One of my faves is
>"Whyncha" -- for "why don't you," i.e., "why do you not."
I once suggested to a friend that she try to speak more slowly
so that the Frenchman to whom she was speaking might understand
more easily. A bit later, I overheard her slowly and clearly
enunciating a sentence that included:
"Tomorrow I'm gonna go to ...."
The Frenchman looked somewhat mystified. I said, "Clarisse,
no matter how slowly and clearly you say it, 'gonna' is not
a word he'll recognize."
On the other hand, the French say something like "Sheypah"
for "Je ne sais pas."
-- Larry Krakauer (lar...@kronos.com)
Markus Laker
morse@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_DOMAIN_FILE (Morse) wrote:
> I thought "fazes" meant
> "causes uneasiness." What does it mean, where does it come
> from, and how do you spell it? (or is that in the a.u.e. FAQ)?
I thought it was an Americanism, but COD9 doesn't mark it so; only as
colloquial. It says:
disconcert, perturb, disorientate^. [variant of *feeze* drive off, from
Old English fesian, of unknown origin]
'Fesian' has a bar over the 'e'. To find out what that means you'll have to
ask somebody more scholarly than I am.
^Yeah, I know. You Americans'd prefer 'disorient'.
--
Markus Laker.
John Lawler
Baty <ba...@teleport.com> writes:
>ke...@big10.metrobbs.com (kevin jones) writes:
>>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
>>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
>I don't think I've ever heard "it'd've." I'll have to listen for it.
I heard it frequently as a child. One of my mother's favorite
expressions, referring to my inability to see what was right in
front of me, was
If it'd been a snake, it'd've bitten you, and you'd be dead by now.
It's perfectly grammatical in that phrase, where it represents
"it would have", but not in the phrase Kevin posted, where it
would have to represent "*it had have". But it probably only
represents itself, like "Mrs.".
My own favorite tooth-on-edge contraction (not a fast speech
rule in eye dialect like "wanna" or "didja") is
would'ven't
which I've caught my wife saying in tag questions:
He would've done that, would'ven't he?
The tag formation rule requires a negative copy of the auxiliary,
and that's exactly what that is. Syntax is part of grammar, too.
- John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/ling/jlawler/ U Michigan Linguistics
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Language is the most massive and inclusive art we know, a - Edward Sapir
mountainous and anonymous work of unconscious generations." Language (1921)
Mark Odegard
Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed.
(John Lawler) wrote:
> He would've done that, would'ven't he?
>The tag formation rule requires a negative copy of the auxiliary,
>and that's exactly what that is. Syntax is part of grammar, too.
No argument. But:
"would'n've" seems better.
"would'ven't", at least me, is unpronouncable.
--
Mark Odegard. Ode...@ptel.net
Gareth Rees
John Lawler <jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu> wrote:
> My own favorite tooth-on-edge contraction (not a fast speech
> rule in eye dialect like "wanna" or "didja") is
>
> would'ven't
>
> and that's exactly what that is. Syntax is part of grammar, too.
The contraction "wouldn't've" sounds much more natural to my ear than
"would'ven't".
--
Gareth Rees
Matthew Rabuzzi
John Lawler <jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu> writes:
: Baty <ba...@teleport.com> writes:
: >ke...@big10.metrobbs.com (kevin jones) writes:
:
: >>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
: >>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
:
: >I don't think I've ever heard "it'd've." I'll have to listen for it.
:
: I heard it frequently as a child. One of my mother's favorite
John, given your recent cataloguing of verb tenses into "Necessitive",
"Usitative", "Contrahabilitative", and the like, can we not dignify
this contraction with the naming
Past Conditional Itative ?
(Or perhaps Matrifavoritive?)
...........................................................
Humbert Humbert was the original Lolly Pop
Matthew Rabuzzi
Earle D. Jones
> Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
> been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
>
> If "you've" any other nominees for uglier contractions, please
> post.
>
===========
I will not help you but my brother Sam'll.
earle
=====
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
In article <4ov07r$u...@cronkite.polaristel.net>, Ode...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard) writes:
> Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed.
>>>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
>>>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
>>>
>>>If "you've" any other nominees for uglier contractions, please
>>>post.
>>>
>>>
>>"Oun't" (rhymes with "count"): "Oun't know." "Oun't care." Drives me
>>nuts, and both my kids do it! We've lived in several parts of the
>>country and it doesn't seem to be limited to any specific geographic
>>area.
This was standard street language in N.Car. in the 30s and 40s.
--
Nyal Z. Williams
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Bob Cunningham
ejo...@hooked.net (Earle D. Jones) wrote:
[...]
>I will not help you but my brother Sam'll.
>
When you shake the ketchup bottle,
First none'll come and then a lot'll.
Ogden Nash?
LEE RIZOR
JL|Baty <ba...@teleport.com> writes:
JL|>ke...@big10.metrobbs.com (kevin jones) writes:
JL|>>Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
JL|>>been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
JL|>I don't think I've ever heard "it'd've." I'll have to listen for it.
JL|I heard it frequently as a child. One of my mother's favorite
JL|expressions, referring to my inability to see what was right in
JL|front of me, was
JL| If it'd been a snake, it'd've bitten you, and you'd be dead by now.
JL|It's perfectly grammatical in that phrase, where it represents
JL|"it would have", but not in the phrase Kevin posted, where it
JL|would have to represent "*it had have". But it probably only
JL|represents itself, like "Mrs.".
Why, in "if it'd been a snake", doesn't "it'd" represent the simpler "if
it had been"?
---
* SLMR 2.1a * milliHelen - amount of beauty needed to launch one ship
John Lawler
LEE RIZOR <drb...@ledge.com> writes:
>John Lawler <jla...@umich.edu> writes:
>>One of my mother's favorite expressions, referring to my inability
>>to see what was right in front of me, was
>
>> If it'd been a snake, it'd've bitten you, and you'd be dead by now.
>
>>It's perfectly grammatical in that phrase, where it represents
>>"it would have", but not in the phrase Kevin posted, where it
>>would have to represent "*it had have". But it probably only
>>represents itself, like "Mrs.".
>
>Why, in "if it'd been a snake", doesn't "it'd" represent the simpler "if
>it had been"?
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I was referring to the second
contraction in the example: it'd've, rather than the first: it'd.
The first one *does* represent "it had", as you say, and
the second one represents "it would have", as I said.
Full form:
If it had been a snake, it would have bitten you.
Since it clearly wasn't a snake, the counterfactual "past"
form was required; since the meaning was also past, the perfective
"have" was required. The second clause is the same, with
the conditional "would" added, as part of the "if...then"
construction. Since these are predictable, they're almost
always contracted in speech, usually to schwa.
And occasionally, as Mark Odegard notes, an epenthetic ("inserted")
schwa occurs in the first one, to match the schwa that's all that's
left of "have" in the second one. Thus does agreement reassert
itself.
David Casseres
In article <31b52c69...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, exw...@ix.netcom.com
(Bob Cunningham) wrote:
AHEM!
You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
-Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
--
David Casseres
Exclaimer: Hey!
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
sara
Isn't it I'm 'ungry. J'eat yet?
I like Wha'appen.
Catch'ya later
Sara14
Truly Donovan
sara wrote:
>
> Isn't it I'm 'ungry. J'eat yet?
Not anywhere I've ever been. The propermost form is:
Djeet?
No. Djou?
This is generally construed as an invitation to eat (lunch, usually)
together followed by a positive response.
Truly Donovan
Matthew Rabuzzi
Nyal Z W <00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> writes:
: cass...@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
: >
: > You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
: > First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
: > -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
:
: Thixotropic Trope?
Yes indeed, and also Rheopectic Rhyme.
..........................................................
A maundering macaronic could be a Nash Rambler
Matthew Rabuzzi
Markus Laker
ejo...@hooked.net (Earle D. Jones) wrote:
> I will not help you but my brother Sam'll.
Now, that sounds unconvincing to me. Why? Because the word 'will', for
which the <'ll> stands, needs more emphasis than it gets. In the same way,
I don't like this:
I wouldn't say that, but you'd.
You'd *what*?
--
Markus Laker.
Earle D. Jones
> In article
<Pine.A32.3.92a.960602...@homer24.u.washington.edu>, "S.
Moriarity" <span...@u.washington.edu> writes:
> >
========Clipsome============
>
>
> I;'m hungry! J'eat yet?--
>
============
Here's the way I remember it:
Jeet yet?
No, Joo?
No, squeet.
Bill Taylor
|> You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
|> First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
|>
|> -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
And from my owen fair hand; after hearing that for the first time...
------
Once I had an axoltl
And I kept him in a bottle.
Then I moved him to a pottle,
'Coz I thought "I'm sure that's what`ll
Please my little axolotl!"
------
Eat your heart out McGonigle!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Taylor w...@math.canterbury.ac.nz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
haiku's inventor
must have had seven fingers
on his middle hand
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Rudolph
mat...@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:
>Once I had an axoltl
>And I kept him in a bottle.
>Then I moved him to a pottle,
>'Coz I thought "I'm sure that's what`ll
>Please my little axolotl!"
It was my impression, when I briefly worked at UNAM in Mexico City,
that in Mexican Spanish (and presumably in Nahuatl?), "tl"--at least
initial "tl", which the "tl" is "axolotl" isn't, of course--is
pronounced more-or-less as I imagine (from reading descriptions)
Welsh (though of course not Spanish) "ll" to be: the tip of the
tongue is tight behind the teeth, the sides of the tongue are
tightish against the roof of the mouth, and then a burst of air
pushes out both sides explosively while the tip stays put.
The "tl" appears initially in, for instance, the place-name
"Tlatelolco" (a part of town much damaged in the big earthquake
that hit the month before I arrived) and the word for hardware
store, "tlapaneria".
What I have often wondered is whether (in Mexican Spanish) the
digraph "tl" is considered to be a single letter, as the digraphs
"ch" and "ll" assuredly are in all Spanish dictionaries. In
which case the English TLA "TLA" would be, to (Mexican) Spanish
eyes, merely a TLA.
Lee Rudolph
Nancy J. Gill
>: cass...@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
>: >
>: > You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
>: > First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
>: > -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
Except that it's:
"Shake, shake the ketchup bottle
First none'll come, and a lot'll"
and it's by Richard Armour
Nancy J. Gill, Quinquagenarian
(njg...@ix.netcom.com)
http://www.netcom.com/~njgill/
There are three classes of elderly women; first, that dear old soul;
second, that old woman; third, that old witch.
Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834), English poet
Bob Cunningham
jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu (John Lawler) wrote:
[...]
>Full form:
> If it had been a snake, it would have bitten you.
>
Reminds me of one of my favorite mangled clichés:
"If Ida been a snake I woulda bit it"
which itself may have become a cliché by now.
00ca...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
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Path: news.bsu.edu!orion.bsuvc.bsu.edu!00cawest
From: 00ca...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: bsu.classes.eng321
Subject: The Ugliest Contraction
Date: 6 Jun 96 10:11:36 -0500
Organization: Ball State University
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Message-ID: <1996Jun6...@orion.bsuvc.bsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.bsuvc.bsu.edu
In response to the ugliest contraction:
To add to the numerous creative responses we have had, how about all of
the contractions that are possible with words such as these, them, those,
and there, followed by "are."
These're some good pies.
Yup, them're good.
Uh, huh, those're real good.
Are y'all talk'in 'bout dem pies?
----(Don't forget about the dese, dem, dose, and dere words as well).
There're only a handful left.
These contractions have combined the words these, them, those, and there with
the following word are.
We also cannot forget about the you contractions. These can be most fun.
You's guys.
Y'all come over here.
Are you'uns going?
Matthew Rabuzzi
Bill Taylor <mat...@math.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
: |> You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
: |> First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
: |> -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
:
: And from my owen fair hand; after hearing that for the first time...
: Once I had an axolotl
: And I kept him in a bottle.
: Then I moved him to a pottle,
: 'Coz I thought "I'm sure that's what'll
: Please my little axolotl!"
Did you coddle him and croon in his native Nahuatl?
I had a little newt
Who wore a great big suit
A princess kissed him to see
If regal he would then be
But he stayed just as slimily astute.
..........................................................
And now I'm bereft of efts
Matthew Rabuzzi
Wendell Cochran
In article <4pa5td$4...@gazette.loc3.tandem.com>,
Matthew Rabuzzi <rab...@patch.tandem.com> wrote:
>
>Bill Taylor <mat...@math.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>: |> You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
>: |> First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
>: |> -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
Can't prove it right off, but I think it was Richard Armour, in _Light
Armour_ (1954, McGraw-Hill). My notes say the title of the poem was 'Going
to Extremes'.
Wendell Cochran atr...@eskimo.com
West Seattle
Matthew Rabuzzi
Recently I wrote:
= I had a little newt
= Who wore a great big suit
= A princess kissed him to see
= If regal he would then be
= But he stayed just as slimily astute.
As this used to be the 'Funny contractions' thread, let me ask:
Do you like my dogger'll? (Daan, you need not answer.)
..........................................................
The Gaze of the Basilisks, by Sir Arthur CrocoD'yle
Matthew Rabuzzi
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <ejones-0406...@206.80.6.11>, ejo...@hooked.net (Earle
D. Jones) wrote:
> In article <4oqu29$q...@metroux.metrobbs.com>, ke...@big10.metrobbs.com wrote:
>
> > Is any contraction uglier than "it'd've," as in, "If it'd've
> > been my choice, I would have resolved the matter otherwise"?
> >
I rather like "ought'ave" for "ought to have". Or, even better,
"y'ought'ave", as in, "Y'ought'ave given some more thought to your
answer."
帰aron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Bill Fisher
In article <4p76dp$q...@zeus.tcp.co.uk>, la...@tcp.co.uk (Markus Laker) writes:
> ejo...@hooked.net (Earle D. Jones) wrote:
>
>
> Now, that sounds unconvincing to me. Why? Because the word 'will', for
> which the <'ll> stands, needs more emphasis than it gets. In the same way,
> I don't like this:
>
> I wouldn't say that, but you'd.
>
> You'd *what*?
>
In a similar vein, there's Ogden Nash's poem "Everybody's Mind to
Me a Kingdom Is, *or* A Great Big Wonderful World It's".
(Found while unsuccessfully searching for the catsup bottle contraction.)
- billf
Colin Fine
In article <4p82i7$9...@cantuc.canterbury.ac.nz>, Bill Taylor <mathwft@ma
th.canterbury.ac.nz> writes
>|> You shake and shake the ketchup bottle;
>|> First none comes out, and then a lot'll.
>|>
>|> -Ogden Nash, who knew when a line had to scan well.
>
A quart-sized axolotl
Into an empty plastic bag
Or in a pint-sized bottle.
He's bound to kick up quite a fuss,
And struggle quite a lot-l,
And if his bulbous neck gets stuck,
Your axolot'll throttle!"
from "Bananas in Pyjamas" by Carey Blyton
Not completely well-formed, I fear, but from a published source.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Other people's criticisms are never so cruel |
| as those we level against ourselves" -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------