Double-nested Acronyms

[Brian Travis]

For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
double-nested acronym.

A nested acronym is an acronym that contains a reference to
another one. For example,
Ex: DIU - Document Interchange Unit
DAD - DIU Assembler Disassembler
Ex: APF - Application Processing Function
.aa - Associate APF
Ex: AIDS - Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome
ARC - AIDS-Related Complex

I am looking for a double-nested acronym. For example,
suppose the Society Of Anything Redundant Society (SOARS)
had a membership-tracking system called Tracking Members of
SOARS (TMS). "TMS" is a nested acronym, since the S expands,
not to an actual word, but to another acronym.

Now, the Society buys a computer system specifically for the
purpose of running their TMS. They lovingly call their new
computer COTO, for "Computer Operating TMS Often". This is a
double-nested acronym.

Of course, this is a fictional example. Has anyone come
across an actual use of the double-nested acronym?

----------------------------------------------------------
<> Brian Travis <> br...@sgmlinc.com <>
<> SGML Architect <> InfoDesign Corp. <>
<> Managing Editor <TAG>: The SGML Newsletter <>
<> 6360 S. Gibraltar Cir. <> Aurora CO 80016 USA <>
<> Tele: +1 303 680-0875 <> Fax: +1 303 680-4906 </>

[John Coughlin]

In <710430...@sgmlinc.com> br...@sgmlinc.com (Brian Travis) writes:

>For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
>double-nested acronym.

I may have one for you. At least, I think it qualifies. Years ago I
worked in an organization that develops the S/W resident in digital
phone switches. One source module was called OWAMAGUI. Almost sounds
like a good name for a summer camp, doesn't it ? 8-) Anyway,
OWAMAGUI was the OutWATS Automatic Message Accounting Global User
Interface. That is, the OW stood for OutWATS, which is outbound
Wide-Area Telephone Service. OutWATS, a pseudo-toll-free service for
outbound calls, is sort of like a 800 service, but in reverse.

[David Wald]

In article <710430...@sgmlinc.com> br...@sgmlinc.com (Brian Travis)
writes:

>For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
>double-nested acronym.

How about recursive acronyms? Computer folks seem to like games like
this. There are a couple of recursive acronyms out there, such as GNU
(which, as I recall, stands for "GNU's Not UN*X"), and XINU, which
isn't either.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu
"Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
-- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================

[James B. Reed]

In article <710430...@sgmlinc.com>, br...@sgmlinc.com (Brian Travis) writes:
|> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
|> double-nested acronym.
|>

|> [ definition of "double-nested acronym" deleted ]
|>
|> [ fictional example deleted too ]

|>
|> Of course, this is a fictional example. Has anyone come
|> across an actual use of the double-nested acronym?

VASG = VHDL Analysis and Standardisation Group
- A group within the IEEE (professional organization
of electrical engineers) responsible for maintaining
VHDL.

VHDL = VHSIC Hardware Description Language
- A language used to describe electrical circuits to
be implemented on a computer chip or printed circuit
board.

VHSIC = Very High Speed Integrated Circuit
- A technology development program funded by the U.S.
Department of Defense.

There are other acronyms based on VHDL.

I don't know of any triple-nested acronym, but there's a self
referencing acronym that could be considered infinitely-nested.

MUNG = Mung Until No Good ("mung" rhymes with "sponge").

--
James B. Reed | If at first you don't succeed,
DAZIX, An Intergraph Company | Find out why,
jim...@b23b.ingr.com | **THEN** try again.
(205) 730-8874 |

[Peter Moylan]

In article <1992Jul6.1...@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>
> How about recursive acronyms? Computer folks seem to like games like
> this. There are a couple of recursive acronyms out there, such as GNU
> (which, as I recall, stands for "GNU's Not UN*X"), and XINU, which
> isn't either.

Not quite to the point, but you've reminded me: years ago, when I
built my own computer, people seemed to think that it wasn't
complete until I had given it an official name. I gave in to the
pressure, and made a label saying IDSFA to put on the front panel.

When asked "What does IDSFA stand for?", I was able to reply
"It doesn't stand for anything."

Most people didn't get it.

Peter.

[Mark Slagle]

In article <1992Jul6.1...@spm.b23a.ingr.com>, j...@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed) writes:

> MUNG = Mung Until No Good ("mung" rhymes with "sponge").

Not where I come from. Mung rhymes with bung and hung,
as in mung beans. Or do you eat munge beans for supper?
There's a reason for the "e" in sponge, although the "o"
is still a kluge to me.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle PO Box 61059
sla...@lmsc.lockheed.com Sunnyvale, CA 94088
408-756-0895 USA

[Andrew Merritt]

wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
> How about recursive acronyms? Computer folks seem to like games like
> this. There are a couple of recursive acronyms out there, such as GNU

Another is MINCE, which stands for MINCE is not complete Emacs.

> and XINU, which isn't either.

and isn't an acronym either; in full it is Mt. Xinu, which is Unix TM
backwards.

Andrew

[Gabe M Wiener]

In article <-2783...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> a...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:
>
>Another is MINCE, which stands for MINCE is not complete Emacs.
>

Hey, let's not forget CYGNUS, which is <C>YGNUS, <Y>our <GNU> <S>upport.

--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ. "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings
gm...@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu to be seriously considered as a means of
N2GPZ in ham radio circles communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$ no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

In article <-2783...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> a...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:

>wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>> How about recursive acronyms? Computer folks seem to like games like
>> this. There are a couple of recursive acronyms out there, such as GNU
>
>Another is MINCE, which stands for MINCE is not complete Emacs.

The Emacs-ish editor for the Lisp Machines (written in Zetalisp) was
EINE ("EINE is not EMACS")
which was replaced by
ZWEI ("ZWEI was EINE initially")

Evan Kirshenbaum
HP Laboratories
3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U
Palo Alto, CA 94304

kirsh...@hplabs.hp.com
(415)857-7572

[pat parker]

ev...@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum) writes:

>The Emacs-ish editor for the Lisp Machines (written in Zetalisp) was
> EINE ("EINE is not EMACS")
>which was replaced by
> ZWEI ("ZWEI was EINE initially")

This is WONDERFUL!

I love the double (triple?) meanings.

pat

[Peter Moylan]

In article <-2783...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>, a...@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:
> wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>

>> and XINU, which isn't either.
> and isn't an acronym either; in full it is Mt. Xinu, which is Unix TM
> backwards.

Nice ... but misleading for those not in the know. For anyone who
couldn't follow these hints, it should be explained that XINU stands
for "XINU Is Not Unix".

Which reminds me: I wish I could track down the b...... who borrowed
my copy of "Godel, Escher, Bach" and never returned it. Does anyone
know if this is still in print?

Peter.

[Gabe M Wiener]

In article <1992Jul9...@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> ee...@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) writes:
>
>Which reminds me: I wish I could track down the b...... who borrowed
>my copy of "Godel, Escher, Bach" and never returned it. Does anyone
>know if this is still in print?

It's still available. I just bought it for someone as a gift. However,
when I went to the bookstore, the only copy on the shelf was a little
beat up, so I asked the clerk if they had another one. She picked up
the phone, called down, and asked them to send up another copy of
"go-DELL ES-ker Back." I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing.

[Mark Slagle]

In article <1992Jul9.1...@news.columbia.edu>, gm...@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:

> It's still available. I just bought it for someone as a gift. However,
> when I went to the bookstore, the only copy on the shelf was a little
> beat up, so I asked the clerk if they had another one. She picked up
> the phone, called down, and asked them to send up another copy of
> "go-DELL ES-ker Back." I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing.

Quite right. You mustn't laugh at the ignorant.
It makes me testy.

[Erik Naggum]

Hi, Brian,

I know of only one:

Emacs -> editing macros or somesuch
EINE -> EINE is not Emacs
ZWEI -> ZWEI was EINE initially

Today's question: Is "EINE" itself a double-nested acronym?

When GNU (GNU's not Unix) was young, there were buttons passed around
that said "I'm a GNUisance". My login name has been "enag" for ages,
so I made up a double-nested double-recursive acronym based on it:

ENAG -> ENAG's not a GNUisance.

The mind boggles at such wasted creativity.

Best regards,
</Erik>

--
Erik Naggum | ISO 8879 SGML |
| ISO 10744 HyTime |
+47-295-0313 | ISO 10646 UCS | Memento, terrigena.
<er...@naggum.no> | ISO 9899 C | Memento, vita brevis.

[John Coughlin]

In <232...@erik.naggum.no> Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no> writes:

>Hi, Brian,

>I know of only one:

> Emacs -> editing macros or somesuch
> EINE -> EINE is not Emacs
> ZWEI -> ZWEI was EINE initially

Also, MINCE Is Not Complete EMACS.

[Jeremy Smith]

TIARA is a recursive acronym

--
smi...@jacobs.cs.orst.edu (Jeremy |-) Smith)
In base infinity every number has its own character
SGNTR VRS VRSN 3.1B: Strppd nd cmprssd fr qckr trnsmssn! nfct yrs tdy!

[dks]

In article <1992Jul16.0...@leela.cs.orst.edu>,

smi...@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeremy Smith) writes:
>
>TIARA is a recursive acronym

Others include AIARA, BIARA, CIARA, DIARA, EIARA, FIARA, etc.

Dhanesh

[wws...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:
> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
> double-nested acronym.
>
> A nested acronym is an acronym that contains a reference to
> another one. For example,
> Ex: DIU - Document Interchange Unit
> DAD - DIU Assembler Disassembler
> Ex: APF - Application Processing Function
> .aa - Associate APF
> Ex: AIDS - Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome
> ARC - AIDS-Related Complex
>
> I am looking for a double-nested acronym. For example,
> suppose the Society Of Anything Redundant Society (SOARS)
> had a membership-tracking system called Tracking Members of
> SOARS (TMS). "TMS" is a nested acronym, since the S expands,
> not to an actual word, but to another acronym.
>
> Now, the Society buys a computer system specifically for the
> purpose of running their TMS. They lovingly call their new
> computer COTO, for "Computer Operating TMS Often". This is a
> double-nested acronym.
>
> Of course, this is a fictional example. Has anyone come
> across an actual use of the double-nested acronym?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> <> Brian Travis <>

> <> SGML Architect <> InfoDesign Corp. <>
> <> Managing Editor <TAG>: The SGML Newsletter <>
> <> 6360 S. Gibraltar Cir. <> Aurora CO 80016 USA <>
> <> Tele: +1 303 680-0875 <> Fax: +1 303 680-4906 </>

"IDB" is a nested acronym, no longer in use, that stands for "ITS Data Bus," where ITS represents "Intelligent Transportation Systems." Here is a link to an SAE document from 2011 that uses the nested acronym.

http://standards.sae.org/j2366/1_200111/

Many years ago, I worked in the ITS field with the creator of the ITS Data Bus.

Walt Sloan

[snide...@gmail.com]

An amusing blast from the past.

/dps

[Mike Barnes]

wws...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:

>[...]

Is this a new record, at 23 years?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/07/15 16:05, Mike Barnes wrote:
> wws...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:
>>[...]
>
> Is this a new record, at 23 years?

We had a similar one a couple of months ago, as I recall it. Still, if
this is not the record then it's close to it, because I think AUE was
created in 1991.

(Which means we should start thinking about what we should do to
celebrate our 25th anniversary. I can find a posting by me on 16 May
1991. The very oldest post in the group is dated 13 May 1991. That's
according to the GG search, which is of course not always trustworthy.)

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[GordonD]

On 07/07/2015 07:05, Mike Barnes wrote:
> wws...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:
> >[...]
>
> Is this a new record, at 23 years?
>

23 years exactly. And the 1992 calendar was the same as the 2015 one.
Is that a coincidence?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-07-07 04:05:14 +0000, snide...@gmail.com said:

> On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 7:51:40 PM UTC-7, wws...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:

[ … ]

>>
>> Many years ago, I worked in the ITS field with the creator of the ITS Data Bus.
>
> An amusing blast from the past.

That must be a record.

Google Groups, of course.

--
athel

[Mike Barnes]

GordonD wrote:
> On 07/07/2015 07:05, Mike Barnes wrote:
>> wws...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:
>> >[...]
>>
>> Is this a new record, at 23 years?
>>
>
> 23 years exactly.

I did notice the date coincidence but I decided to leave it to someone
else to grapple with the time zone issues. :-)

> And the 1992 calendar was the same as the 2015 one.

Well, the relevant part is the same. They obviously can't be completely
the same because only one is a leap year.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

There is a nested acronym used (invented?) in the newsgroup
alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe. It is "PNS".

PNS: PIN Number Syndrome

PIN: Personal Identification Number.

When PIN is spoken as a word, "pin", some people will follow it with
"number" even though that word is included in the initials. They will
refer to a "PIN number" (pronounced "pin number"). That is referred to
as a syndrome.

There are more on the RAP (Redundant Acronym Phrase) website:
http://www.nanday.com/rap/


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 10:51:40 PM UTC-4, wws...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:

[...]

> Many years ago, I worked in the ITS field with the creator of the ITS Data Bus.

Then maybe you shold have posted your observation many years ago.

This may have been the first one from an exact anniversary, and it's one of the oldest yet. (Gmail, of course.)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <dd55d71b-11a8-4af4...@googlegroups.com>,

Does anyone want to call Brian T in CO (BTICO?) and see if he ever found
his DNA?

--
charles, TLA

[snide...@gmail.com]

Another reason to miss Nick Spalding.

/dps

[occam]

The most nerdy nested acronym in computing is: GNU ("GNU is Not Unix").
You will notice it is not only double nested but also recursive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym

(The page has other examples of recursives)


UNIX: There is no generally agreed version of the acronym, however it
is a generic operating system as well as an AT&T trademark.
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/UNIX

[snide...@gmail.com]

Unix is merely a pun, AIUI. Dating back to when it ran on 1 computer, hidden in a closet.

/dps

[Peter Moylan]

On 08/07/15 08:54, occam wrote:
>
> The most nerdy nested acronym in computing is: GNU ("GNU is Not Unix").
> You will notice it is not only double nested but also recursive.

Don't forget XINU: XINU is not Unix.

> UNIX: There is no generally agreed version of the acronym, however it
> is a generic operating system as well as an AT&T trademark.
> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/UNIX

Unix was never an acronym. It was named after Multics. The idea was that
it was sort of like Multics, but single-user rather than multi-user.

(And then people added multi-terminal support to Unix, so it became
multi-user anyway. But that wasn't the original intention.)

[snide...@gmail.com]

One of the advantages of seeing this thread in GG is that the first time
people remembered GNU and XINU ... is still visible.

/dps

[occam]

"Unix is the singular of Multics" is your preferred option? (last on the
list)
>
> /dps
>

[snide...@gmail.com]

I was going to attribute that to Ken and Dennis, but it may actually be Brian's.


/dps

[snide...@gmail.com]

And now I see the pun was by Peter Neumann (/ACM RISKS Digest/),
but with UNICS spelling. BK seems to have provided the permanent spelling.
<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix#History>

/dps

[Peter Moylan]

On 08/07/15 13:40, snide...@gmail.com wrote:

> One of the advantages of seeing this thread in GG is that the first time
> people remembered GNU and XINU ... is still visible.

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about the unlimited retention. It lets us see
that those (including me) who have forgotten history are condemned to
repeat it.

It has been conjectured now and then that the majority of AUE threads
are repeats of earlier discussions. A missing feature in GG is the
provision of links to the last time we discussed something.

Twenty-three.

[jcd...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:14:40 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Not quite to the point, but you've reminded me: years ago, when I
> built my own computer, people seemed to think that it wasn't
> complete until I had given it an official name. I gave in to the
> pressure, and made a label saying IDSFA to put on the front panel.
>
> When asked "What does IDSFA stand for?", I was able to reply
> "It doesn't stand for anything."

In the early 1980s, I worked on an NBI. Which apparently didn't stand for anything, and so the backronym of Nothing But Initials was born.

[Tony Cooper]

My uncle was in the Army in WWII. He did not have a middle name.

His dogtags had his first name and last name, and between those two
was NMI. (no middle initial)

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[R H Draney]

"jcd...@gmail.com" <jcd...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:e7165fc8-fa75-45f3...@googlegroups.com:

Jack Coleman's character in the TV series "Heroes" was called HRG before we
were told his name...it stood for the "horn-rimmed glasses" he always
wore...he worked for an agency called the OWI, or "Organization Without
Initials"....r

[Peter Moylan]

As a one-time regular in this group, and therefore finally someone who
won't turn out to be a drive-by poster, perhaps you'll have an
explanation for a puzzling recent phenomenon. What has recently changed
in Google Groups that would explain this sudden rash of resurrections of
long-dead threads?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <mjtupadltjgablnvm...@4ax.com>,

From the Readers' Digest, so, well, you know:

A man signs up for military service and he only has first and middle
initials, no names. So Mr. R B Jones receives , as part of his military
paperwork the appellation R(only) B(only) Jones and was henceforth known
as Ronly Bonly Jones.



charles, I /said/ it was from the RD, didn't I?

[Mike Barnes]

My understanding is that GG used to warn you if you tried to follow up
an ancient post; but it no longer does so.

[snide...@gmail.com]

Some Time In The Distant Past, at least 2 years ago, it wouldn't let me
do a followup to a too-old-post. But cuttenpaiste into a new thread was hokay.

/dps

[Richard Tobin]

In article <24b07be6-d44a-43c5...@googlegroups.com>,

<wws...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 3:58:02 AM UTC-5, Brian Travis wrote:
>> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
>> double-nested acronym.

There are some based on Emacs, which was short for "editor macros".
"Eine" = "Eine Is Not Emacs" was followed by "Zwei" = "Zwei Was Eine
Initially", and "Fine" = Fine Is Not Emacs" was followed by "Thief" =
"This Here Isn't Even Fine".

-- Richard

[Billy Warmerdam]

On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 6:42:15 AM UTC-7, Brian Travis wrote:
> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
> double-nested acronym.

> A nested acronym is an acronym that contains a reference to
> another one. For example,
> Ex: DIU - Document Interchange Unit
> DAD - DIU Assembler Disassembler
> Ex: APF - Application Processing Function
> .aa - Associate APF
> Ex: AIDS - Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome
> ARC - AIDS-Related Complex
> I am looking for a double-nested acronym. For example,
> suppose the Society Of Anything Redundant Society (SOARS)
> had a membership-tracking system called Tracking Members of
> SOARS (TMS). "TMS" is a nested acronym, since the S expands,
> not to an actual word, but to another acronym.
> Now, the Society buys a computer system specifically for the
> purpose of running their TMS. They lovingly call their new
> computer COTO, for "Computer Operating TMS Often". This is a
> double-nested acronym.
> Of course, this is a fictional example. Has anyone come
> across an actual use of the double-nested acronym?
> ----------------------------------------------------------

> <> Brian Travis <> br...@sgmlinc.com <>

> <> SGML Architect <> InfoDesign Corp. <>
> <> Managing Editor <TAG>: The SGML Newsletter <>
> <> 6360 S. Gibraltar Cir. <> Aurora CO 80016 USA <>
> <> Tele: +1 303 680-0875 <> Fax: +1 303 680-4906 </>

GVRP (GARP VLAN Registration Protocol)
GARP (Generic Attribute Registration Protocol)
VLAN (Virtual Local Area Network)
One could argue VLAN stands for Virtual LAN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GARP_VLAN_Registration_Protocol&redirect=no

Also,
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/587339/what-s-the-term-for-an-acronym-that-refers-to-another-acronym

-Billy

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Billy Warmerdam wrote:

> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 6:42:15 AM UTC-7, Brian Travis wrote:
>> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
>> double-nested acronym.

I wonder if Brian Travis is still alive?

--
Bertel, Denmark

[occam]

The most famous one is 'GNU' - stands for "Gnu's Not Unix". It not only
references UNIX, but it is also self-referential (recursive). Can't beat
that in my book.

[occam]

Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Who made you the net cop for aue? And gave you decades worth of
jurisdiction?

bill

[occam]

The Committee.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I find no problem with them, and criticizing them brings you close to a PTDism.


--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[occam]

On 12/06/2023 09:23, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-06-12 06:46:52 +0000, occam said:
>
>> On 12/06/2023 07:41, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>  Billy Warmerdam wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 6:42:15 AM UTC-7, Brian Travis wrote:
>>>>> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
>>>>> double-nested acronym.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Brian Travis is still alive?
>>>
>>
>> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
>> habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>
> I find no problem with them, and criticizing them brings you close to a
> PTDism.
>
>

You are mistaken Athel. I critise him in the spirit of a friend pointing
out that his flies are undone. A stranger would not do that. (For the
record, I do like Bertel and appreciate his participation here.)

[Snidely]

On Sunday, occam exclaimed wildly:

This is not a non-sequitur IMO. You may humble me, but Bertel is
responding to posted content. And he cropped to the relevant material.

/dps

--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."

Sam Plusnet

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

occam wrote:

> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
> habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?

Good threads - derailed? What a disaster!

PS. Do you realise that I have to scroll through endless repetitions of
information that has already been present for a long time, just to find
a few lines at the bottom?

How many do actually read all that crap?

Where "crap" is the repetitions - not the original text.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

occam wrote:

> You are mistaken Athel. I critise him in the spirit of a friend pointing
> out that his flies are undone. A stranger would not do that.

I am perfectly well aware that your criticism is friendly and sincere.

> (For the
> record, I do like Bertel and appreciate his participation here.)

Thanks. I can say the same about you and most of the other participants.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

occam wrote:

> The most famous one is 'GNU' - stands for "Gnu's Not Unix". It not only
> references UNIX, but it is also self-referential (recursive). Can't beat
> that in my book.

"Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Peter Moylan]

It also means that in English.

I'm reminded of the time two lion cubs were left alone while their
parents went hunting. During this time a couple of small gnus passed by.
The cubs, who were almost old enough for hunting, killed and ate the gnus.

Just as they were finishing them off, the parent lions appeared. One of
the cubs said

"That is the end of the gnus. Here again are the head lions."

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

Did it turn out to be a good thread? I'm afraid I don't remember.

[occam]

It ain't over, until is dead and forgotten.

[J. J. Lodder]

Danish ones are no doubt the wildest,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

It's also the English word for one species of wildebeest.

Not to be confused with elk, camel, kangaroo, bison, okapi, hartebeest, etc.:

https://www.lyricsmania.com/the_gnu_lyrics_flanders_and_swann.html

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

occam wrote:

> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
> habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?

Here's a sincere answer:

My habit of cutting the quotes was established in Fidonet where it was
forbidden to quote more than two lines. The discussion back then was
about the length of the lines - should it be 72 or 80 characters. I see
no reason to change the habit - except that I now often quote more than
two lines.

I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.

You argue that I disrupt threads, but my method is not to blame for
that. Threads change all the time, and the change may be caused by light
or heavy quoters - there is no correlation. If my message changes the
thread, it is because of its contents and not the missing quotes.

My method has one consequence: A person may want to answer several
writers in one answer to me thus saving time and effort. That is
impossible because I seldom retain more than one level of quotes. The
question is if that is a good or a bad thing. I think that one usually
should answer the messages directly that one wants to answer.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:23:22 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-06-12 06:46:52 +0000, occam said:
> > On 12/06/2023 07:41, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Billy Warmerdam wrote:
> >>> On Monday, July 6, 1992 at 6:42:15 AM UTC-7, Brian Travis wrote:

> >>>> For some time, I have been searching for what I call a
> >>>> double-nested acronym.
> >> I wonder if Brian Travis is still alive?
> > Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
> > habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>
> I find no problem with them, and criticizing them brings you close to a PTDism.

Screw you.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 5:00:36 AM UTC-4, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> occam wrote:
>
> > Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
> > habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>
> Good threads - derailed? What a disaster!
>
> PS. Do you realise that I have to scroll through endless repetitions of
> information that has already been present for a long time, just to find
> a few lines at the bottom?

Then use Google Groups. It hides the quoted material (behind a link)
and takes you directly to the first new line.

> How many do actually read all that crap?
>
> Where "crap" is the repetitions - not the original text.

Most of us don't use systems that force it on us.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 5:57:19 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 12/06/23 19:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > occam wrote:

> >> The most famous one is 'GNU' - stands for "Gnu's Not Unix". It not
> >> only references UNIX, but it is also self-referential (recursive).
> >> Can't beat that in my book.
> > "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
>
> It also means that in English.

Almost ...

> I'm reminded of the time two lion cubs were left alone while their
> parents went hunting. During this time a couple of small gnus passed by.
> The cubs, who were almost old enough for hunting, killed and ate the gnus.
>
> Just as they were finishing them off, the parent lions appeared. One of
> the cubs said
>
> "That is the end of the gnus. Here again are the head lions."

Well done! Original?

[Bebercito]

Le lundi 12 juin 2023 à 11:57:19 UTC+2, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 12/06/23 19:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > occam wrote:
> >
> >> The most famous one is 'GNU' - stands for "Gnu's Not Unix". It not
> >> only references UNIX, but it is also self-referential (recursive).
> >> Can't beat that in my book.
> >
> > "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
> It also means that in English.
>
> I'm reminded of the time two lion cubs were left alone while their
> parents went hunting. During this time a couple of small gnus passed by.
> The cubs, who were almost old enough for hunting, killed and ate the gnus.
>
> Just as they were finishing them off, the parent lions appeared. One of
> the cubs said
>
> "That is the end of the gnus.

Bad gnus for them.

[Sam Plusnet]

It does seem a shame. If the poster had waited just another month, we
could have celebrated the 30th anniversary of Mr. Travis' post.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 12-Jun-23 13:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>  occam wrote:
>
>> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
>> habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>
> Here's a sincere answer:
>
> My habit of cutting the quotes was established in Fidonet where it was
> forbidden to quote more than two lines. The discussion back then was
> about the length of the lines - should it be 72 or 80 characters. I see
> no reason to change the habit - except that I now often quote more than
> two lines.
>
> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
> immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.

Just for the record, In my view Bertel's approach is sensible.

If Occam really wants to read the whole of Billy Warmerdam's post - he
can do so... by reading Billy Warmerdam's post.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Jerry Friedman]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 6:09:49 AM UTC-6, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
...

> My habit of cutting the quotes was established in Fidonet where it was
> forbidden to quote more than two lines. The discussion back then was
> about the length of the lines - should it be 72 or 80 characters. I see
> no reason to change the habit - except that I now often quote more than
> two lines.
>
> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
> immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.

...

> My method has one consequence: A person may want to answer several
> writers in one answer to me thus saving time and effort. That is
> impossible because I seldom retain more than one level of quotes. The
> question is if that is a good or a bad thing. I think that one usually
> should answer the messages directly that one wants to answer.

I think it's sometimes a bad thing. Sometimes I don't understand your
posts because the context I needed was removed, which happens
especially often when the context was a post earlier than the one
you're responding too.

--
Jerry Friedman

[lar3ryca]

He could have included a little more info. I, for one, though interested
in the topic, did not feel it worthwhile going to the effort of digging
iit up.

--
Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:09:23 AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.

More or less. "Gnu" is the name for those herd animals in the Khoisan languages, which
are native languages in parts of what is now called South Africa.

In English and other languages, they may be called either gnu or wildebeest, the latter being
South African Dutch for wild beast.

bill

[Snidely]

On Monday, lar3ryca exclaimed wildly:

If you thought Bertel's post was about double-nested acronyms, I'm
afraid you've been whooshed.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/06/23 22:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> occam wrote:
>
>> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar
>> cropping habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>
> Here's a sincere answer:
>
> My habit of cutting the quotes was established in Fidonet where it
> was forbidden to quote more than two lines. The discussion back then
> was about the length of the lines - should it be 72 or 80 characters.
> I see no reason to change the habit - except that I now often quote
> more than two lines.
>
> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
> immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.

That, in my opinion, is the only right way to do it. There are too many
people here[1] who fail to snip what they're not replying to, and it's
really annoying.

[1] Even after I've plonked the worst offenders.

[Peter Moylan]

I'm afraid not. It's actually a very old joke. Possibly from the era of
"My Word".

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-06-12 20:46, Snidely wrote:
> On Monday, lar3ryca exclaimed wildly:
>> On 2023-06-12 14:27, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 12-Jun-23 13:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>   occam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertel, do you realise that your non-sequiturs (and peculiar cropping
>>>>> habits) often derail a perfectly good thread?
>>>>
>>>> Here's a sincere answer:
>>>>
>>>> My habit of cutting the quotes was established in Fidonet where it
>>>> was forbidden to quote more than two lines. The discussion back then
>>>> was about the length of the lines - should it be 72 or 80
>>>> characters. I see no reason to change the habit - except that I now
>>>> often quote more than two lines.
>>>>
>>>> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
>>>> immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.
>>>
>>> Just for the record, In my view Bertel's approach is sensible.
>>>
>>> If Occam really wants to read the whole of Billy Warmerdam's post -
>>> he can do so... by reading Billy Warmerdam's post.
>>
>> He could have included a little more info. I, for one, though
>> interested in the topic, did not feel it worthwhile going to the
>> effort of digging iit up.
>
> If you thought Bertel's post was about double-nested acronyms, I'm
> afraid you've been whooshed.

If you say so. If so, I still don't get it.

--
In hindsight, I realized I could see into the future.
Which is kind of like having premonitions of flashbacks.
~ Steven Wright

[Snidely]

Remember Monday, when lar3ryca asked plaintively:

It's about ghost posts. You notice it when Bowser does it, but don't
notice when Billy Warmerdam does it?

/dps

--
As a colleague once told me about an incoming manager,
"He does very well in a suck-up, kick-down culture."
Bill in Vancouver

[J. J. Lodder]

bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

With 'wild' meaning merely not domesticated, not necessarily savage,

Jan

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Peter Moylan wrote:

>> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy to see
>> immediately what caught my interest and what I want to answer to it.
>
> That, in my opinion, is the only right way to do it. There are too many
> people here[1] who fail to snip what they're not replying to, and it's
> really annoying.
>
> [1] Even after I've plonked the worst offenders.

I run a statistics script once in a while. I don't find it very
interesting - I mostly do it because I can. It made more sense at the
time where we had to pay per second.

I register the quote levels, and here is a picture that shows what I
found in this group in February this year. No participant is filtered
out, but I try to eliminate what I define as spam and shouting:

https://temp.lundhansen.dk/quote_levels.png

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Peter Moylan]

For the point that Bertel wanted to make, it was sufficient to give the
attribution lines.

If he had quoted stuff that he was NOT commenting on, that would have
been abuse of the Usenet posting guidelines that have been accepted for
decades.

Those guidelines say, inter alia, that you should trim the cited
material down to being just sufficient to provide the necessary context
for your own remarks.

Someone who quotes a hundred lines to add a two-line comment can be
really annoying. I hope nobody here would go that far, but some go close.

Peter Daniels has defended the Google Groups approach of hiding all the
quoted material, but in my opinion that's no good either, because it's
all or nothing. The point is to do SELECTIVE snipping, and GG
discourages people from doing that.

[Peter Moylan]

French "sauvage" also means undomesticated, so the English word has
significantly changed meaning since we adopted it from French.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:58:43 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:09:23 AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> > "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
>
> More or less. "Gnu" is the name for those herd animals in the Khoisan languages, which
> are native languages in parts of what is now called South Africa.

(Mostly Namibia, and maybe a few hang on in southern Botswana.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

Oh! It seemed too short for them.

[Peter T. Daniels]

That _can_ also work in English, though not when made part of the
name (as in wildcat). We do have wild dogs, but (fairly recently?) the
urban parallel is "_feral_ cats."

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 8:17:14 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 13/06/23 16:26, Snidely wrote:
> > Remember Monday, when lar3ryca asked plaintively:
> >> On 2023-06-12 20:46, Snidely wrote:
> >>> On Monday, lar3ryca exclaimed wildly:

> >>>> He [Bertel] could have included a little more info. I, for one, though

> >>>> interested in the topic, did not feel it worthwhile going to
> >>>> the effort of digging iit up.
> >>> If you thought Bertel's post was about double-nested acronyms,
> >>> I'm afraid you've been whooshed.
> >> If you say so. If so, I still don't get it.
> > It's about ghost posts. You notice it when Bowser does it, but don't
> > notice when Billy Warmerdam does it?
>
> For the point that Bertel wanted to make, it was sufficient to give the
> attribution lines.
>
> If he had quoted stuff that he was NOT commenting on, that would have
> been abuse of the Usenet posting guidelines that have been accepted for
> decades.
>
> Those guidelines say, inter alia, that you should trim the cited
> material down to being just sufficient to provide the necessary context
> for your own remarks.
>
> Someone who quotes a hundred lines to add a two-line comment can be
> really annoying. I hope nobody here would go that far, but some go close.
>
> Peter Daniels has defended the Google Groups approach of hiding all the
> quoted material, but in my opinion that's no good either, because it's
> all or nothing. The point is to do SELECTIVE snipping, and GG
> discourages people from doing that.

But when you click the curved arrow to add a comment, the entire
quoted context is shown. It's then just a matter of remembering to
scroll back up and cxut stuff. I've done it twice already in Metrist's
current thread about "absolutes." But then I forgot to check with my
previous message in this thread -- but I'll do it now.

(Only two contributions deleted.)

[lar3ryca]

When I first saw this thread, it did not start with the post by Billie
Warmerdam. It started with Bertel's response to it. The actual start of
the thread only showed up in Thunderbird, just now, when I changed the
view to 'all', from 'unread'.

--
What do you do when you see an endangered animal that eats only
endangered plants?
~ Steven Wright

[phil]

We have lots of wild flowers round here.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, but that's because "wildcat" has a specific meaning (Felis
silvestris) that isn't what is meant here.

>
> We have lots of wild flowers round here.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 17:39:38 +0200
Athel Cornish-Bowden <athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2023-06-13 15:21:27 +0000, phil said:
>
> > On 13/06/2023 15:33, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 4:32:00 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:09:23?AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
> >>>>
> >>>> More or less. "Gnu" is the name for those herd animals in the Khoisan
> >>>> languages, which are native languages in parts of what is now called South
> >>>> Africa.
> >>>>
> >>>> In English and other languages, they may be called either gnu or
> >>>> wildebeest, the latter being South African Dutch for wild beast.
> >>> With 'wild' meaning merely not domesticated, not necessarily savage,
> >>
> >> That _can_ also work in English, though not when made part of the
> >> name (as in wildcat). We do have wild dogs, but (fairly recently?) the
> >> urban parallel is "_feral_ cats."
>
> Yes, but that's because "wildcat" has a specific meaning (Felis

Are they quite striking?

> silvestris) that isn't what is meant here.

(a Tweetie bird needs to know)

> >
> > We have lots of wild flowers round here.
>

any jokers?

>
> --
> Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
> in England until 1987.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-6, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-06-13 15:21:27 +0000, phil said:
>
> > On 13/06/2023 15:33, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 4:32:00 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:09:23?AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
> >>>>
> >>>> More or less. "Gnu" is the name for those herd animals in the Khoisan
> >>>> languages, which are native languages in parts of what is now called South
> >>>> Africa.
> >>>>
> >>>> In English and other languages, they may be called either gnu or
> >>>> wildebeest, the latter being South African Dutch for wild beast.
> >>> With 'wild' meaning merely not domesticated, not necessarily savage,
> >>
> >> That _can_ also work in English, though not when made part of the
> >> name (as in wildcat). We do have wild dogs, but (fairly recently?) the
> >> urban parallel is "_feral_ cats."

> Yes, but that's because "wildcat" has a specific meaning (Felis
> silvestris) that isn't what is meant here.

...

Around here "wildcat" would probably be /Lynx rufus/ (which I've /still/ never
seen). And I'd say "feral dog", and I think a lot of people would.

I don't think "wild" necessarily suggest savage. There's a store in Santa Fe
called "Wild Birds Unlimited", which sells bird food and bird feeders (BrE
"bird tables"?) and such for wild birds.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Adam Funk]

On 2023-06-13, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2023-06-13 15:21:27 +0000, phil said:
>
>> On 13/06/2023 15:33, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 4:32:00 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 2:09:23?AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gnu" by the way is the Danish word for wilderbeast.
>>>>>
>>>>> More or less. "Gnu" is the name for those herd animals in the Khoisan
>>>>> languages, which are native languages in parts of what is now called South
>>>>> Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>> In English and other languages, they may be called either gnu or
>>>>> wildebeest, the latter being South African Dutch for wild beast.
>>>> With 'wild' meaning merely not domesticated, not necessarily savage,
>>>
>>> That _can_ also work in English, though not when made part of the
>>> name (as in wildcat). We do have wild dogs, but (fairly recently?) the
>>> urban parallel is "_feral_ cats."
>
> Yes, but that's because "wildcat" has a specific meaning (Felis
> silvestris) that isn't what is meant here.

Wild rice (genus Zizania) is even less closely related to rice (Oryza)
[than wildcat is to cat]. (Looking those up to get the genera right, I
discovered there is a species of Zizania native to Asia, which I
hadn't been aware of.)


--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
---H G Wells

[Peter T. Daniels]

Flowers that were seeded by wind-borne seeds from flowers in gardens?

Wildflowers are the flowers that grow on their own (in the wild), without
being planted or cultivated.

After a few years, wild flowers might have turned into wildflowers.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 11:39:44 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-06-13 15:21:27 +0000, phil said:
> > On 13/06/2023 15:33, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 4:32:00 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> >>>> In English and other languages, they may be called either gnu or
> >>>> wildebeest, the latter being South African Dutch for wild beast.
> >>> With 'wild' meaning merely not domesticated, not necessarily savage,
> >> That _can_ also work in English, though not when made part of the
> >> name (as in wildcat). We do have wild dogs, but (fairly recently?) the
> >> urban parallel is "_feral_ cats."
>
> Yes, but that's because "wildcat" has a specific meaning (Felis
> silvestris) that isn't what is meant here.

Yes, that's the _point_. A bimorphemic word vs. an adjective + noun.

[phil]

Well, wild flowers and wildflowers, of course. Though in the UK, at
least, the terms seem to be used interchangeably. The Royal
Horticultural Society offers a definition of "wild flowers" for
gardeners, but acknowledges that it may be used differently in other
fields (see what I did there?).

<https://www.rhs.org.uk/lawns/meaning-term-wildflower>

Meanwhile the Wild Flower Society say they are for "wild flower lovers"
-- wild people who love flowers, presumably

<https://thewildflowersociety.org.uk/about/what-we-do/>

[Peter T. Daniels]

The spellings of words vs. phrases really ought to follow pronunciation.
The standard example is "blackbird" vs. "black bird" -- you don't accent
the syllables the same in both, do you?

[phil]

No, not usually, although context may change that ("That brown bird is a
sparrow; the black bird is a blackbird"). I don't expect "wildflower" to
have the same pronunciation as "wild flower", but I do see the terms
used with the same meaning. In fact, I mostly hear "wildflower" used
adjectivally ("A wildflower meadow, full of wild flowers"), though "full
of wildflowers" wouldn't sound odd.

I was about to go on to say that we have wild animals here, but we don't
really, we have wildlife. Wild animals are from Africa, so might also be
savage. All of which takes us on to Gerald the gorilla -- "Wild, I was
absolutely livid!"

<https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bbb2l>

[occam]

On 13/06/2023 14:17, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 13/06/23 16:26, Snidely wrote:
>> Remember  Monday, when  lar3ryca asked plaintively:
>>> On 2023-06-12 20:46, Snidely wrote:
>>>> On Monday, lar3ryca exclaimed wildly:
>>>>> On 2023-06-12 14:27, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>> On 12-Jun-23 13:09, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>>>>>>> I pick the section that I want to respond to, so it's easy
>>>>>>> to see immediately what caught my interest and what I want
>>>>>>> to answer to it.
>>>>>>


>

> For the point that Bertel wanted to make, it was sufficient to give the
> attribution lines.

Yes.

>
> If he had quoted stuff that he was NOT commenting on,

He did. There are two lines from the original 1992 post (not counting
the Subject matter).

> that would have
> been abuse of the Usenet posting guidelines that have been accepted for
> decades.

I'm not too sure about 'abuse'. Abuse implies transgressing laws,
whereas with guidelines you bend the rules, at worst.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Yes, we always need to set aside "contrastive stress." But even in that
example, they're different -- "black" is longer than "black-," and there's
a pause after the adjective and there isn't within the noun.

> I don't expect "wildflower" to
> have the same pronunciation as "wild flower", but I do see the terms
> used with the same meaning. In fact, I mostly hear "wildflower" used
> adjectivally ("A wildflower meadow, full of wild flowers"), though "full
> of wildflowers" wouldn't sound odd.
>
> I was about to go on to say that we have wild animals here, but we don't
> really, we have wildlife. Wild animals are from Africa, so might also be

Good example. The wild life would be something different.

> savage. All of which takes us on to Gerald the gorilla -- "Wild, I was
> absolutely livid!"
>
> <https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bbb2l>

An unfortunate platform. Audio and video not synchronized, and
no progress bar to indicate how long the bit is. But one can see
from the first minute or so the purport of your reference.

Crossthread: surreal "comedy"? But I can see that being tried on SNL.