drawn curtains
Thomas Pscheidt
expect them to be open or shut?
I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
shut.
Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
"drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
Thanks for any insight.
Jitze Couperus
(Thomas Pscheidt) wrote:
Just from my own unsubstantiated understanding, the adjective "drawn"
as in "drawn curtains" means closed (nefarious activities take place in
smoke-filled rooms behind drawn curtains).
However, the verb "to draw" used in the context of curtains means to
change them from whatever state they are in to the opposite. If they are
closed, it means to open them, if they are open, it means to close them.
On the other hand, to "draw a bath" always means to prepare it for use rather
than empty it.
--
Jitze Couperus | Tel:(408)541-4334
Conrol Data Systems Inc. | Fax:(408)541-4206
Sunnyvale, CA 94089 | E-mail:coup...@cdc.com
Any opinions expressed are mine alone.
Truly Donovan
>
> If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
> expect them to be open or shut?
>
> I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
> opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
> obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
> shut.
>
> Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
> I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
> "drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
> this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
>
This American (with an avowed taste for British mysteries) would assume
the curtains to be closed because they had been "drawn across the
window." Now I realize that the same perspective could yield an open
curtain, but my mind's eye has simply never seen them anything but
closed.
Truly Donovan
Bob Cunningham
>If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
>expect them to be open or shut?
>
>I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
>opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
>obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
>shut.
>
>Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
>I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
>"drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
>this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
>
I'm surprised to see that RHUD2 (^1) doesn't define "draw" in
that sense. However, it does have the idiom "draw the curtain on" or
"over", meaning "to bring to a close" or "to keep a secret".
The British dictionary NSOED/93 (^2) has:
"draw ... Pull (a veil etc.) over something so as to
conceal it; pull (a curtain, blinds) open or shut"
The US dictionary W3NID (^3) has:
"draw ... to pull (as a curtain) over so as to cover
or conceal or aside so as to uncover or reveal"
So, it appears that "draw the curtain" can have either meaning.
I find this amazing because I have before now been quite sure that it
meant only "to close the curtain".
(Posted, e-mailed to psch...@ix.netcom.com and jes...@panix.com)
Footnotes:
^1 RHUD2 - _The Random House Dictionary of the English Language_,
Second Edition Unabridged, Copyright 1987 by Random House,
Inc.
^2 NSOED/93 - _The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary on Historical
Principles, Copyright Oxford University Press 1993.
^3 W3NID - _Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the
English Language Unabridged", Copyright 1966 by G. & C.
Merriam Co.
---
Bob Cunningham, | "Short words are best and the old words
Los Angeles, | when short are best of all."
California, USA | -- Winston Churchill
alan auerbach F
Draw is presumably short for pull the drawstring, hence, open or close.
Since curtains are normally open, drawing = closing?
Maybe the reverse in a brothel.
--
Al.
Roy Lakin
Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com> wrote:
[...]
>This American (with an avowed taste for British mysteries) would assume
>the curtains to be closed because they had been "drawn across the
>window." Now I realize that the same perspective could yield an open
>curtain, but my mind's eye has simply never seen them anything but
>closed.
Likewise from a Brit - unless, that is, the person drawing the curtains was
of an artistic nature.
:-)
Roy
James Eason
You draw curtains to close them.
Curtains that are drawn are _always_ closed. (Otherwise numerous
descriptions by novelists of blank late-afternoon London streets with
all the curtains drawn become meaningless, or a sort of Carrollian
picture of maids going hither and thither opening and closing
curtains.)
This is illogical, but who said that English was logical?
Drawing to a close,
James
Marina Waltz
>
> If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
> expect them to be open or shut?
>
> I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
> opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
> obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
> shut.
>
> Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
> I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
> "drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
> this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
Interesting question. I'm looking forward to seeing others' replies.
I have always understood drawn curtains to be closed. It's possible
that they mean the opposite in other countries, though.
In the very brief survey I conducted around here, seven people
think open, one says closed, one says either, and the other
says I totally messed up his mind for the day by asking the
question.
From the dictionary definition, it would seem "drawing the
curtains" can mean either opening or closing them, but most
of us here think drawn curtains are closed.
Regards,
Marina
Colin Fine
>>
>> If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
>> expect them to be open or shut?
>>
>> I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
>> opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
>> obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
>> shut.
>>
>> Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
>> I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
>> "drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
>> this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
>>
When I was little, we always "opened the curtains" or "closed the
curtains". When I got a bit older, and met people (eg aunts) who "drew
the curtains" I was confused.
Still am.
Colin
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 33 Pemberton Drive, Bradford, W Yorks. BD7 1RA, UK |
| Tel: 01274 733680 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| God gave me eyes so that I could see you, |
| and gave you eyes so that I could see myself" -K.B.Brown|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:in...@turnpike.com
John Crane
> If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
> expect them to be open or shut?
>
> I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
> opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
> obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
> shut.
>
> Now I am utterly confused. The dictionaries I have read do not help.
> I have asked several people and all have said that they would expect
> "drawn curtains" to be open. Most, however, had to think about it. Is
> this optional usage? Does it differ by country?
>
All I can tell you is that to me "drawing the curtains" means to close
them, and "the curtains are drawn" means they are closed.
John
Colin Fine
<aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca> writes
>I had to think about it too.
>Draw is presumably short for pull the drawstring, hence, open or close.
Certainly not. The basic meaning of 'draw' like its cognate 'drag' is
'pull' - you can do that to curtains whether they are strung or not.
Luke Fitzgerald
psch...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>If someone were to tell you that the curtains are drawn, would you
>expect them to be open or shut?
I'm almost sure I remember, in one of those glutinous prefaces or
postwords to Alice in Wonderland that Carroll misguidedly added, the
phrase 'a mother's hand that undraws the curtains' (opens them).
But I'm also almost sure that this stuck in my childish mind because it
was the first time I'd come across 'undraw', so it can't be that usual in
British English.
To return to your point, I think I'd say that curtains were either open
or drawn (shut). As an aside: are US 'drapes' exactly equivalent to UK
'curtains'?
Luke
Chris Malcolm
>I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
>opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
>obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
>shut.
>Now I am utterly confused.
"Draw" here means "pull", and is simply non-specific. If they are open,
it means to close them, and vice versa.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@uk.ac.ed.aifh +44 (0)131 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" Paul Valery
Rainer Thonnes
c...@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
> psch...@ix.netcom.com (Thomas Pscheidt) writes:
>
> >I have always understood the idiom "drawing the curtains" to mean
> >opening them. However, I am reading a British mystery in which it is
> >obvious from context that "the curtains were drawn" means that they are
> >shut.
>
> >Now I am utterly confused.
>
> "Draw" here means "pull", and is simply non-specific. If they are open,
> it means to close them, and vice versa.
Sounds reasonable, and so "to be drawn" would mean that they were
understood to have relatively recently changed state. The time of
day might then provide a clue as to their actual state. Alternatively,
it could mean, given that it was worth mentioning at all, that they were
in the state opposite to that which would normally be expected for that
time of day. Depending on context, this might mean that they had not,
in fact, recently changed state at all - the victim of a nocturnal murder,
for example, might be excused for failing to open the curtains even by
mid-afternoon.
However, if "drawn" were to mean anything other than "pulled", it would
surely mean "withdrawn". Unfortunately the ambiguity here would not be
resolved either, since they may have been withdrawn from the window, or
withdrawn from their, uh, hiding place.
"Withdrawn from sight" would seem the more natural interpretation,
particularly when observing the window from the outside.
Patrick Gillard
<coup...@cdc.com> writes
>In article <4kva1o$n...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, psch...@ix.netcom.com
>(Thomas Pscheidt) wrote:
>
>> expect them to be open or shut?
>>
>
>>
>
>
>Just from my own unsubstantiated understanding, the adjective "drawn"
>as in "drawn curtains" means closed (nefarious activities take place in
>smoke-filled rooms behind drawn curtains).
>
>However, the verb "to draw" used in the context of curtains means to
>change them from whatever state they are in to the opposite. If they are
>
>
I'm with you on this one. I use the word 'draw' in exactly the way you
describe. I suppose if you wanted to be completely unambiguous (say, if
the curtains were half-open) you could aways revert to 'open' and
'close' as your verbs of choice.
Incidentally, does anyone else find it diffucult to use the verb 'shut'
when talking about curtains?
It strikes me as one of the few instances in which the verbs 'close' and
'shut' are not interchangeable. I think it has something to do with the
fact that curtains don't shut with a distinct noise, and the 't' at the
end of 'shut' has some sort of onomatopoeic effect, to my ear at least.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Gillard
"Ignorance madam, sheer ignorance." (Dr. J)
Ray Levitan
> or drawn (shut). As an aside: are US 'drapes' exactly equivalent to UK
> 'curtains'?
>
> Luke
This has always confused me, until I noticed that some curtains are
hung from rails and that others are literally draped over the rail or
the pelmet above it. So I suppose that strictly the former should be
curtains and the latter should be drapes.
Ray Levitan
(Posted and mailed)
Mark Odegard
>Incidentally, does anyone else find it diffucult to use
>the verb 'shut' when talking about curtains?
>
>It strikes me as one of the few instances in which the
>verbs 'close' and 'shut' are not interchangeable. I think
>it has something to do with the fact that curtains don't
>shut with a distinct noise, and the 't' at the end of
>'shut' has some sort of onomatopoeic effect, to my ear at
>least.
"shuttter". "To shutter" often means "to shut out" or "to
protect from" (e.g. burglers, the weather).
The usage note in MWCD10 states "close" implies bringing to
a conclusion something unfinished, which is close to my feeling
of the distinction. There is motion in "close" while "shut has
yes/no, either/or feel to it.
--
Mark Odegard mlo...@nyc.pipeline.com
Rainer Thonnes
In article <$Xa1uLAS...@kindness.demon.co.uk>,
Colin Fine <co...@kindness.demon.co.uk> writes:
> alan auerbach F <aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca> writes
> >I had to think about it too.
> >Draw is presumably short for pull the drawstring, hence, open or close.
>
> Certainly not. The basic meaning of 'draw' like its cognate 'drag' is
> 'pull' - you can do that to curtains whether they are strung or not.
Quite. It would be another example of begging the question.
Alan, you may, if you like, believe that "draw" is short for "pulling
the drawstring", but why do you suppose it's called a drawstring?
--
Push means press because it's short for pressing the pushbutton.
Rainer Thonnes
In article <jcrane-1904...@ppp-gsv11.gator.net>,
jcr...@digital.net (John Crane) writes:
>
> All I can tell you is that to me "drawing the curtains" means to close
> them, and "the curtains are drawn" means they are closed.
Do you then have no corresponding terms for opening them, or them
being open?
In real life, would you normally prefer "draw" to "close" or vice versa,
and would your answer be different for the action and the state?
Eric Landau
In my experience (U.S.), "drapes" usually refers to curtains that are
floor length or nearly so, as opposed to curtains which drop only to the
sill.
AHD makes no mention of this distinction, but RHUD gives (1st def as
noun) "a curtain or hanging of heavy fabric and usually considerable
length..."
--
Eric Landau, APL Solutions, Inc. (ela...@cais.com)
"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger." -- Abbie Hoffman
Rainer Thonnes
In article <317A5A...@attmail.com>, Ray Levitan <zo...@attmail.com> writes:
> (in reply to one Luke's aside)
> > are US 'drapes' exactly equivalent to UK 'curtains'?
>
> hung from rails and that others are literally draped over the rail or
> the pelmet above it. So I suppose that strictly the former should be
> curtains and the latter should be drapes.
Indeed, and if this means what I think it means, namely that drapes do
not move along the rail when they're being opened or closed, but in
effect remain permanently "closed" at the top, being opened only on
their lower parts (and tied back to stay open), this might have an
unfortunate consequence.
General consensus seems to be that "drawn" means shut. But if the natural
state of drapes is closed, could this mean that drawn drapes are open, but
drawn curtains are shut?
James Eason
>
> In my experience (U.S.), "drapes" usually refers to curtains that are
> floor length or nearly so, as opposed to curtains which drop only to the
> sill.
>
> AHD makes no mention of this distinction, but RHUD gives (1st def as
> noun) "a curtain or hanging of heavy fabric and usually considerable
> length..."
>
In my youth, about 100 years ago, it was the firm opinion of my
parents, relations, and teachers that "drapes" and "draperies" were
"professional" words (that is to say, that they were commercial cant)
and were not to be used in ordinary speech. To do so marked one as an
interior decorator or a sales clerk or worse. In these days, when
sales clerks and interior decorators are so very chic and upscale, no
doubt only their customers use them. In any case, "drapes" (or
"draperies") were indeed the heavier fabrics of considerable length,
usually hung over the "curtains", which were light-weight and
translucent. To be frank, I haven't heard "drapes" in some years, and
suspect (hope) that it is falling into general disfavor.
James "NB There are few dates in this history" Eason
Bob Cunningham
psch...@ix.netcom.com (Thomas Pscheidt) wrote:
[...]
>I quote from "Miss Manners Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior" by
>Judith Martin, page 193:
>
> "Drapes"
>
>Dear Miss Manners:
> A friend of mine always corrects me when I say the word "drapes."
>She says that is vulgar, and that the right word is "draperies." Which
>of us is correct?
>
>Gentle Reader:
> You are both hopeless. The word for material that hangs on the sides
>of windows is "curtains."
>
>Dear Miss Manners:
> Please stand corrected. The sheer fabric made up to cover a window
>is named a curtain. A solid fabric made up into window covering or
>decoration is named drapery.
>
>Gentle Reader:
> This is true for commercial purposes, but in ordinary conversation
>the word "drapery" is never used for anything that covers or decorates
>a window. All such materials are called "curtains." Please stand
>recorrected.
Dear Miss Manners:
What planet are you from? Please stand in the corner until you
learn the difference between drapes and curtains as used for
residential interior decorating.
Thomas Pscheidt
In <317A5A...@attmail.com> Ray Levitan <zo...@attmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>
>> or drawn (shut). As an aside: are US 'drapes' exactly equivalent to
UK
>> 'curtains'?
>
>This has always confused me, until I noticed that some curtains are
>hung from rails and that others are literally draped over the rail or
>the pelmet above it. So I suppose that strictly the former should
be
>curtains and the latter should be drapes.
I quote from "Miss Manners Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior" by
Donna Richoux
In article <DqBJE3.KGo.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>,
r...@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Rainer Thonnes) wrote:
[snip discussions of drapes and curtains]
> General consensus seems to be that "drawn" means shut.
No, it wasn't. If you think there was unanimity, you must have missed a
few posts. Several times it was was said (and with this I concur) that "to
draw" means "to pull." Compare horses drawing/pulling a carriage. You draw
the curtains open if they were closed and you draw them closed if they
were open. So it seems to me that whether "drawn curtains" are open or
shut depends on the time of day. If it's morning and they are drawn,
someone must have opened them. If it's late in the day and they are drawn,
they must now be closed.
> But if the natural state of drapes is closed, could this mean that drawn
>drapes are open, but drawn curtains are shut?
I don't think anybody makes this distinction.
Best -- Donna Richoux
John Crane
In article <Dq9MIq.11n.0.sta...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>,
r...@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Rainer Thonnes) wrote:
We (in the US) would normally say, "open the drapes (or curtains)." We
would also normally say, "Close the drapes (or curtains)." Seldom would we
say "Draw the drapes."
John
Mark Wainwright
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) writes
> psch...@ix.netcom.com (Thomas Pscheidt) wrote:
>>Gentle Reader:
>> This is true for commercial purposes, but in ordinary conversation
>>the word "drapery" is never used for anything that covers or decorates
>>a window. All such materials are called "curtains." Please stand
>>recorrected.
> Dear Miss Manners:
>
> What planet are you from? Please stand in the corner until you
> learn the difference between drapes and curtains as used for
> residential interior decorating.
In the UK, I have never heard anyone say `drapes' to refer to an item of
residential interior decorating. Perhaps Miss Manners is from Planet
Unamerica.
Mark Wainwright
--
The time is out of joint: O cursed spite, | ma...@harlequin.co.uk
That ever I was born to set it right! |
| http://www.cl.cam.
--Shakespeare, _Hamlet_| ac.uk/users/maw13/
Bob Cunningham
ma...@harlqn.co.uk (Mark Wainwright) wrote:
>exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) writes
[...]
>
>> Dear Miss Manners:
>>
>> What planet are you from? Please stand in the corner until you
>> learn the difference between drapes and curtains as used for
>> residential interior decorating.
>
>In the UK, I have never heard anyone say `drapes' to refer to an item of
>residential interior decorating. Perhaps Miss Manners is from Planet
>Unamerica.
>
Interesting. That's a UK-US difference I hadn't come across
before. For all I know, now, maybe the terminology isn't uniform
here, either.
In my experience, a curtain is a flimsy thing, possibly lacy
and/or fluffy, that adorns an opening but is fairly transparent, while
a drape is a much more substantial covering that is fully opaque. A
drape is drawn across the opening by pulling on a cord. The curtain
just hangs there, although sometimes there are provisions to tie it
back by wrapping a piece of material around the center and pulling
just the center back, leaving the top spread full length.
A window may have both curtains and drapes, or it may have
Venetian blinds and drapes. If a window doesn't have drapes it may
have an opaque roller blind, which you raise or lower by pulling on a
cord at the bottom. The roller blind is spring loaded and has some
sort of fiendishly clever catch mechanism that keeps it from rolling
up all the way, most of the time.
I'm trying to remember what I saw on the windows of the places we
stayed at in England, but all I remember is that I never saw any
window screens. I don't think I saw many flies, either. Window
screens are pretty common here, as are flies.
When I saw that there didn't seem to be any window screens in
England I thought it was a marvelous business opportunity, but I
became discouraged when I realized that before I could sell window
screens there I would first have to release millions of flies. It
might have been a problem to find the right breed of fly, so that it
would be sufficiently pesky to make people want screens and also
adaptable to the climate there.
(Posted; e-mailed)
---
Bob Cunningham | Starting quite soon, Sparky
Los Angeles | will fade from the scene
California, USofA | for a while.
Mark Wainwright
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) writes
> In my experience, a curtain is a flimsy thing, possibly lacy
> and/or fluffy, that adorns an opening but is fairly transparent, while
> a drape is a much more substantial covering that is fully opaque. A
> drape is drawn across the opening by pulling on a cord. The curtain
> just hangs there, although sometimes there are provisions to tie it
> back by wrapping a piece of material around the center and pulling
> just the center back, leaving the top spread full length.
What you call a curtain is exactly what is in the UK called a `net
curtain'. What you call a drape is exactly what we call a curtain,
except that there is as likely as not no cord mechanism for drawing
them (in which case they are drawn by hand).
What do you call a substantial, opaque window covering that must be
drawn by hand across the window? Or does the mere idea smack too much
of manual labour for the American market?
Almost all windows have curtains (or blinds); some also have net
curtains. Our terminology for blinds seems to be the same as yours
(roller or Venetian blinds). I, like you, was unaware that there was
a transatlantic difference in terminology for window-coverings.
Markus Laker
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) wrote:
> ma...@harlqn.co.uk (Mark Wainwright) wrote:
> >In the UK, I have never heard anyone say `drapes' to refer to an item of
> >residential interior decorating. Perhaps Miss Manners is from Planet
> >Unamerica.
> >
> Interesting. That's a UK-US difference I hadn't come across
> before. For all I know, now, maybe the terminology isn't uniform
> here, either.
> In my experience, a curtain is a flimsy thing, possibly lacy
> and/or fluffy, that adorns an opening but is fairly transparent, while
> a drape is a much more substantial covering that is fully opaque. A
> drape is drawn across the opening by pulling on a cord. The curtain
> just hangs there, although sometimes there are provisions to tie it
> back by wrapping a piece of material around the center and pulling
> just the center back, leaving the top spread full length.
If, in the UK, you talk about curtains, most people will think of what
you've called drapes. They may or may not be lightproof (I'm not sure how
much you meant by 'fully opaque') -- if they are, they're called blackout
curtains -- but they'll certainly afford privacy, even at night when the
lights are on. They may have a cord to draw them, but it's just as likely
that they'll be pulled by hand.
We also have net curtains, which are normally white and are just adequate to
provide privacy during the day without keeping out too much light. They're
often just called 'nets' when the context is clear.
> A window may have both curtains and drapes, or it may have
> Venetian blinds and drapes. If a window doesn't have drapes it may
> have an opaque roller blind, which you raise or lower by pulling on a
> cord at the bottom. The roller blind is spring loaded and has some
> sort of fiendishly clever catch mechanism that keeps it from rolling
> up all the way, most of the time.
Things are simpler here: windows that have blinds (of either kind) don't
normally have curtains or nets. Why would you want both a Venetian blind
and a heavy curtain? Thermal insulation, perhaps? (In British usage, by
the way, the term 'Venetian blind' refers to the whole structure, not to a
single slat, and so a moderately-sized window may have just one of them.
Again, I'm not sure how much was implied in your plural.)
> I'm trying to remember what I saw on the windows of the places we
> stayed at in England, but all I remember is that I never saw any
> window screens. I don't think I saw many flies, either. Window
> screens are pretty common here, as are flies.
We don't even use the term 'window screen' here; do you mean one of those
meshes fixed to the outside of windows to keep out flies? I suspect the
real reason we don't have these isn't our lack of insects: it's our lack of
sunshine.
[Posted and emailed.]
--
Markus Laker.
Rainer Thonnes
In article <317FC8...@ucpopmail.uchicago.edu>
James Eason <jea...@ucpopmail.uchicago.edu> writes:
>
> In any case, "drapes" (or
> "draperies") were indeed the heavier fabrics of considerable length,
Goodness, and there was I thinking that draperies were shops where one
might be able to purchase drapes.
Jon Robert Crofoot
ma...@harlqn.co.uk (Mark Wainwright) wrote:
>
>What you call a curtain is exactly what is in the UK called a `net
>curtain'. What you call a drape is exactly what we call a curtain,
>except that there is as likely as not no cord mechanism for drawing
>them (in which case they are drawn by hand).
>
>What do you call a substantial, opaque window covering that must be
>drawn by hand across the window? Or does the mere idea smack too much
>of manual labour for the American market?
>
Cheap shot, Mark! I thought that sort of thing went out
of fashion around the time of the Battle of New Orleans.
Of course, the cord mechanism IS drawn by hand, involving
actual manual labor. The point is to prevent our greasy,
unwashed American hands from leaving filthy smudge marks on
the drapery.
gl...@delphi.com
Oh, dear. May I confuse the issue further?
The item referred to by previous posters as a "roller blind" is
what we (in the New England area) call a "shade."
And the gauzy material that covers the window but still allows
sunlight to shine through is often called a "sheer" or "sheers."
My (totally unreferenced) opinion of the difference between
"curtain" and "drape" (or draperies) is that they are curtains
if they are meant to be left opened (the top of them meets in the
middle of the rod, and while it COULD be moved forcibly apart, it
usually isn't) and they are drapes if they are hung from the
rod by some kind of hook or ring so that they may more easily be
closed, opened, or drawn to or fro.
And I refuse to discuss the fact that I just stated that they are
drapes, not curtains, if they are hung from hooks ... and yet
if you held up one of those hooks and said to me "What is this?"
my answer would be "A curtain hook."
Nancy G
whose youngest child, while still learning how language worked,
would often ask me to "open" or "close" the electric lights.
She also still (age 5) says "willn't" instead of "won't" but
since I think this makes a great deal more sense, I don't
usually correct her.
Luke Fitzgerald
In article <jcrane-2904960007030001@pm6_18.digital.net> John Crane,
I was sitting at dinner last night and heard a man at the next table
(native speaker of East Anglian English) say "The curtains were drawn, so
she went to draw the curtains." That doesn't help at all, does it?
Luke
David Burn
Yes, it does. "To draw the curtains" means to change the state of the
curtains, opening them if they are closed and vice versa. But, at least
in my experience, the phrase "drawn curtains" means curtains that are
closed. When we were recently burgled [should I say "burglarized" in
this newsgroup?] we were asked by the police: "Were the curtains drawn?"
We knew what they meant.
David Burn
db...@lnhdent.agw.bt.co.uk
James Eason
Not in the version of English formerly known as American. We don't, to
my recollection, use "drapers'" either. "Draperies" is the word used by
the truly refined and elegant decorator, who has the indistinct feeling
(perfectly justified, in fact) that there's something wrong with
"drapes".