Napron, Nadder, Norange
Richard N Kitchen
I know that 'a napron' became 'an apron' somewhere in the development of
English. Also, 'a nadder' became 'an adder' and 'a norange' became 'an
orange.' Are there any other such words?
--
Rick Kitchen da...@cleveland.freenet.edu
History has to be observed. Otherwise, it's not history. It's just ...
well, things happening one after another.
--Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"
Bruce Lucas
on 19 Jul 1994 16:44:06 GMT,
Richard N Kitchen <da...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> writes:
>
>I know that 'a napron' became 'an apron' somewhere in the development of
>English. Also, 'a nadder' became 'an adder' and 'a norange' became 'an
>orange.' Are there any other such words?
>
and "another" has become "a nother", as in "that's a whole nother thing",
although "nother" seems to be currently limited to just a few contexts.
By the way, my dictionary says "orange" lost its initial "n" by MF (by
OProv, actually), before it came into ME, so "a norange" seems questionable.
Bruce Lucas
Keith Ivey
: By the way, my dictionary says "orange" lost its initial "n" by MF (by
: OProv, actually), before it came into ME, so "a norange" seems questionable.
Yes, but a similar thing could have happened in French, with "une
narange" becoming "une orange". The French word "or" (gold) could have
influenced this change as well.
Another word to go with "apron", "adder", and "orange" is "umpire".
Another word to go with "newt" is "nuncle", a dialectal variant of
"uncle" (I remember it from a poem by J.R.R. Tolkien).
--Keith Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org>
Washington, DC
MATTHEW BOND
>From: lu...@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas)
>Subject: Re: Napron, Nadder, Norange
>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 18:11:41 GMT
IT'S NOT THERE.
David Wald
mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au (MATTHEW BOND) writes:
>Nother? I think you've got your wires crossed. Look up the dictionary.
>IT'S NOT THERE.
But listen to people speak, and there it is.
For the folks with their ears open: does it crop up anywhere other
than the tmesized "a whole nother"? I hear this phrase with some
frequency, but can't recall any other "nother".
-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/ wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu
"Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
-- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
Bruce Lucas
on Wed, 20 Jul 1994 02:28:41 GMT,
MATTHEW BOND <mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au> writes:
>>
>Nother? I think you've got your wires crossed. Look up the dictionary.
>IT'S NOT THERE.
He he. According to standard principles of netiquette, I take the phrase
"wires crossed" and the shouting at the end to give me leave to use mild
sarcasm :-)
I'm not sure what you mean by "the dictionary"; perhaps you mean the one
on your shelf? If so, you ought to get a better one if you intend to make
pronouncements on what is and is not in the language on the basis of
"the dictionary".
The word "nother" in fact appears in the OED, with citations ranging from
1300 to 1782. Interestingly, it declares it "obs. exc. dial.", implying
that it was at one time more widespread. It certainly occurs in dials. that
I am familiar with, although seemingly only in the phrase "a whole nother".
Perhaps this is a fossil?
Cheers,
Bruce Lucas
Peter Moylan
>I know that 'a napron' became 'an apron' somewhere in the development of
>English. Also, 'a nadder' became 'an adder' and 'a norange' became 'an
>orange.' Are there any other such words?
Several, but I've forgotten most of them. Two that spring to mind
are:
an eke-name -> a nickname
an ewt -> a newt
(I wouldn't swear to the second, I could be misremembering.)
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
(also pe...@tesla.newcastle.edu.au, ee...@cc.newcastle.edu.au)
Ken Moore
wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu "David Wald" writes:
> In article <mjbon1.51...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au>
> mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au (MATTHEW BOND) writes:
> >Nother? I think you've got your wires crossed. Look up the dictionary.
> >IT'S NOT THERE.
>
> But listen to people speak, and there it is.
>
> For the folks with their ears open: does it crop up anywhere other
> than the tmesized "a whole nother"? I hear this phrase with some
> frequency, but can't recall any other "nother".
I can't recall hearing it in the UK and in the US I had the impression
that its users (with one exception) knew that it was non-standard.
--
Ken Moore
MATTHEW BOND
>From: wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
>Subject: Re: Napron, Nadder, Norange
with some frequency, that's why you think it's correct. I've never heard
it, so I thought it incorrect.
Never you mind. It's probably in the dictionary after all. I didn't look
myself! However, I still think it sounds ridiculous.
David Wald
mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au (MATTHEW BOND) writes:
>In article <WALD.94Ju...@woodpecker.lcs.mit.edu>
>wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>>For the folks with their ears open:
>You live on the nother(sic) side of the world, mate.
Sorry, I didn't intend that comment to have such an edge. I was
hoping that someone would come up with a nother instance in which it
crops up; the OED infuriatingly notes "obs. exc. dial." but doesn't
give a hint which dial.s it isn't obs. in, or how they currently use
it.
As for "correct" or not, I think that all the folks I've heard use
"nother" around here would consider it nonstandard, and would use it
in writing only as a joke, but it does seem to crop up in ordinary
speech.
Richard N Kitchen
In a previous article, mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au (MATTHEW BOND) says:
>In article <WALD.94Ju...@woodpecker.lcs.mit.edu> wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>>In article <mjbon1.51...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au>
>>mjb...@CFS01.cc.monash.edu.au (MATTHEW BOND) writes:
>>>Nother? I think you've got your wires crossed. Look up the dictionary.
>>>IT'S NOT THERE.
>>
>>But listen to people speak, and there it is.
>>
>>For the folks with their ears open: does it crop up anywhere other
>>than the tmesized "a whole nother"? I hear this phrase with some
>>frequency, but can't recall any other "nother".
>>
>You live on the nother(sic) side of the world, mate. Of course you hear it
That's not how it's used. The user would say, "You live on a whole
nother side of the world."
>with some frequency, that's why you think it's correct. I've never heard
>it, so I thought it incorrect.
I don't think the original poster said he thought it was correct. He
said it was used, and wondered about its usage. Of course, I could be
mistaken.
>Never you mind. It's probably in the dictionary after all. I didn't look
>myself! However, I still think it sounds ridiculous.
That is as may be, but it is common in US dialect.