Mouse-trap lift

[John Ritson]

I encountered a reference to a 'mouse-trap lift' (in a night-club in
London during WWII).
What could it have been?
All I can imagine is a metal bar coming down abruptly to keep the
passengers away from the wall of the lift shaft.

--
John Ritson

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <SGJb0gAs...@hotmail.co.uk>,

Suspended metal cage type trap.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:31:56 +0000, John Ritson <j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

I don't think a "bar coming down abruptly" would be very safe.

I'm wondering whether it means the lift/elevator was a cage rather than
having solid walls.

There used to be mouse traps in the form of a cage. This one is from the
US:
http://statemuseumpa.org/berks-county-mousetrap-captures-pennsylvania-ingenuity/

Traps like that seem to have been earlier than what we today think of as
a mousetrap.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <hlabadie-B6F45D...@nntp.aioe.org>,

Olivia de Havilland in Lady in a Cage.

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Lady_in_a_Cage2.png>

[Whiskers]

I've never encountered the expression but imagine that some sort of
antiquated mechanism is meant; perhaps the lift cage actually resembled
a cage rather than a box. Or perhaps the cage was just very small.


--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter T. Daniels]

Our elevators have "cars" rather than "cages." A century and more ago, they
could look like cages -- the first Chucky movie (I think it's called *Child's
Play*?) used the interior of a grand old apartment building in Chicago, and
it had the fairly typical arrangement of stairs winding around three sides
of a cast-iron grillwork elevator shaft with a cast-iron "cage" for the
passengers. The elevator doors open on a vestibule that is also the landing
for the stairs leading up and down to the sides of the elevator shaft.

[Whiskers]

I think that was a common arrangement in buildings put up when lifts
were still a bit new-fangled; people didn't want to trust themselves
inside opaque boxes hidden out of sight but felt more comfortable being
able to see and be seen by anyone using the stairs. I seem to recall
the Marx Brothers exploiting the dramatic opportunities offered by the
arrangement.

[Robert Bannister]

On 16/12/2015 06:23, Whiskers wrote:

> I think that was a common arrangement in buildings put up when lifts
> were still a bit new-fangled; people didn't want to trust themselves
> inside opaque boxes hidden out of sight but felt more comfortable being
> able to see and be seen by anyone using the stairs. I seem to recall
> the Marx Brothers exploiting the dramatic opportunities offered by the
> arrangement.
>

That got me thinking about curious lift types. I had forgotten the name,
but DuckDuckGo tells me that /paternoster/ lifts are now banned. I have
certainly used a few in my time - all in factories - and I used to find
them scary, although people who worked there apparently didn't.
--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Steve Hayes]

That looks a bit like the ones we used at school to catch imbibas
(field mice) -- or at least the p[rinciple is the same, we used jam
tins, wire of various gauges, and elasticv bands.

But my image of a cage-type mouse trap is here:

http://www.trap-man.com/af185.jpg

and for those who haven't seen one, this is what an imbiba looks like:

<URL:http://www.ispotnature.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/scaled/images/40805/b19fd9be7ecc797ad9559fa0e584d779.jpg>



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Whiskers]

Never had to use one, fortunately, but I've seen a miniature version
used for moving parcels. Wikipedia lists surviving examples and has a
moving image showing the general principle. Aston University have a
movie of students using one there in the 1960s
<http://www.aston.ac.uk/50/history/paternoster-lifts/>

[Charles Bishop]

In article <slrnn714n8.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

It's doubtful though that the cage is made of cast-iron rather than
steel. But otherwise that describes the ones I've seen. The metalwork
door slides across in the front of the box or cage.

charles

[John Varela]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MkgjMVVhAg

--
John Varela

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Thanks.

[LFS]

Interesting: not a single woman appears in that clip.

I had to use a paternoster lift when working on the audit at GEC at
Borehamwood in 1969. I was terrified to start with but once you got used
to it it was very efficient. they were still being manufactured in
Eastern Europe in the 1980s: a student of mine wrote a dissertation
about them.

In a modern building on London Wall I recently encountered an unusual
lift arrangement. You called the lift by pressing a screen which
required you to choose the floor before boarding and there were no
controls inside, other than an alarm button.

This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:

http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift

You need considerable strength to open the door when you reach your
floor and I have occasionally had to ask a passing person to help from
the outside. And it's very easy to get your fingers caught in the ironwork.

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[Whiskers]

On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/12/2015 12:29, Whiskers wrote:
>> On 2015-12-16, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/12/2015 06:23, Whiskers wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that was a common arrangement in buildings put up when lifts
>>>> were still a bit new-fangled; people didn't want to trust themselves
>>>> inside opaque boxes hidden out of sight but felt more comfortable being
>>>> able to see and be seen by anyone using the stairs. I seem to recall
>>>> the Marx Brothers exploiting the dramatic opportunities offered by the
>>>> arrangement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That got me thinking about curious lift types. I had forgotten the name,
>>> but DuckDuckGo tells me that /paternoster/ lifts are now banned. I have
>>> certainly used a few in my time - all in factories - and I used to find
>>> them scary, although people who worked there apparently didn't.
>>
>> Never had to use one, fortunately, but I've seen a miniature version
>> used for moving parcels. Wikipedia lists surviving examples and has a
>> moving image showing the general principle. Aston University have a
>> movie of students using one there in the 1960s
>> <http://www.aston.ac.uk/50/history/paternoster-lifts/>
>>
>
> Interesting: not a single woman appears in that clip.

Nor even a married one <grin> That may well reflect the reality of the
time; women were discouraged from careers in engineering. At the end
of WWII women who'd been working as engineers and technicians were
sacked to make jobs for the men coming back from military service - that
sort of mindset persisted for a long time afterwards and still hasn't
entirely disappeared.

> I had to use a paternoster lift when working on the audit at GEC at
> Borehamwood in 1969. I was terrified to start with but once you got used
> to it it was very efficient. they were still being manufactured in
> Eastern Europe in the 1980s: a student of mine wrote a dissertation
> about them.

I imagine women had to be careful about choice and management of
clothing to use one of those lifts. The Aston Uni web site mentions that
chaps sometimes got into difficulties when wearing their academic gowns.

> In a modern building on London Wall I recently encountered an unusual
> lift arrangement. You called the lift by pressing a screen which
> required you to choose the floor before boarding and there were no
> controls inside, other than an alarm button.

There was probably a computer somewhere working out the most efficient
way to collect and deliver passengers. I would have welcomed such an
arrangement yesterday in the multi-storey car park; people were pressing
both 'up' and 'down' buttons to call the lift and then getting into ones
going in the wrong direction - with the inevitable result that lifts
were stopping at floors too full to accept any more passengers and
no-one was getting off and half the people in the lift were going the
wrong way. Humans can be really silly - why go from level 1 to level 0
via level 9 and thus obstruct people trying to get from 7 to 2 and end
up taking much longer for your own journey?

> This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:
>
> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift
>
> You need considerable strength to open the door when you reach your
> floor and I have occasionally had to ask a passing person to help from
> the outside. And it's very easy to get your fingers caught in the ironwork.

I'm saddened that an otherwise luxury hotel fails to provide a lift
attendant to attend to such matters. I'm sure the original intention
was that passengers would not have to touch any part of the mechanism or
controls! My only experience using lifts of that vintage has been in
office buildings, and there has always been a Corps of Commissionaires
(or other) attendant either in the lift or at each floor. Such
employment was once considered very suitable for disabled ex-servicemen.

[LFS]

It's tiny, only room for two so no room for an attendant. Of course, a
minion deals with one's luggage, not that I ever get to stay long enough
to have more than an overnight bag.

It's a splendid hotel - the Belle Epoque front part has been retained
and there is a more modern section at the back, with another normal
lift. The bedrooms at the front have the original fittings (Biedermeyer,
or that style). The bathroom in these rooms is quite big but in each
there is a separate lavatory cubicle which is very small indeed and has
a small stained glass window in its door.

The foyer is very splendid as you can see in these pictures:

http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/photo-galleries/public-areas

My lifestyle does not usually encompass staying in such places but the
offices and conference facilities of a learned society are housed in the
modern part and I have visited frequently over the last decade to run
workshops on corporate governance for them.

[Whiskers]

On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20/12/2015 13:25, Whiskers wrote:
>> On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>> This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:
>>>
>>> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift
>>>
>>> You need considerable strength to open the door when you reach your
>>> floor and I have occasionally had to ask a passing person to help from
>>> the outside. And it's very easy to get your fingers caught in the ironwork.
>>
>> I'm saddened that an otherwise luxury hotel fails to provide a lift
>> attendant to attend to such matters.
>> I'm sure the original intention
>> was that passengers would not have to touch any part of the mechanism or
>> controls! My only experience using lifts of that vintage has been in
>> office buildings, and there has always been a Corps of Commissionaires
>> (or other) attendant either in the lift or at each floor. Such
>> employment was once considered very suitable for disabled ex-servicemen.
>>
>
> It's tiny, only room for two so no room for an attendant. Of course, a
> minion deals with one's luggage, not that I ever get to stay long enough
> to have more than an overnight bag.

Some of the pictures have an Elf of some sort standing by the lift; I
would have hoped that Elf 'nSafety would insist on such staff being
present at every floor to open the lift door in a timely fashion. Ah
well, nothing's perfect.

> It's a splendid hotel - the Belle Epoque front part has been retained
> and there is a more modern section at the back, with another normal
> lift. The bedrooms at the front have the original fittings (Biedermeyer,
> or that style). The bathroom in these rooms is quite big but in each
> there is a separate lavatory cubicle which is very small indeed and has
> a small stained glass window in its door.
>
> The foyer is very splendid as you can see in these pictures:
>
> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/photo-galleries/public-areas
>
> My lifestyle does not usually encompass staying in such places but the
> offices and conference facilities of a learned society are housed in the
> modern part and I have visited frequently over the last decade to run
> workshops on corporate governance for them.

Take whatever luxury you can wherever you find it!

[LFS]

On 20/12/2015 14:44, Whiskers wrote:
> On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 20/12/2015 13:25, Whiskers wrote:
>>> On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift
>>>>
>>>> You need considerable strength to open the door when you reach your
>>>> floor and I have occasionally had to ask a passing person to help from
>>>> the outside. And it's very easy to get your fingers caught in the ironwork.
>>>
>>> I'm saddened that an otherwise luxury hotel fails to provide a lift
>>> attendant to attend to such matters.
>>> I'm sure the original intention
>>> was that passengers would not have to touch any part of the mechanism or
>>> controls! My only experience using lifts of that vintage has been in
>>> office buildings, and there has always been a Corps of Commissionaires
>>> (or other) attendant either in the lift or at each floor. Such
>>> employment was once considered very suitable for disabled ex-servicemen.
>>>
>>
>> It's tiny, only room for two so no room for an attendant. Of course, a
>> minion deals with one's luggage, not that I ever get to stay long enough
>> to have more than an overnight bag.
>
> Some of the pictures have an Elf of some sort standing by the lift; I
> would have hoped that Elf 'nSafety would insist on such staff being
> present at every floor to open the lift door in a timely fashion. Ah
> well, nothing's perfect.
>

Yes, the Elf will put you into the lift and make sure you understand the
mechanism but he lives in the foyer with the concierge and doesn't
travel with you.

[Rich Ulrich]

On 20 Dec 2015 13:25:39 GMT, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
wrote:

>
>There was probably a computer somewhere working out the most efficient
>way to collect and deliver passengers. I would have welcomed such an
>arrangement yesterday in the multi-storey car park; people were pressing
>both 'up' and 'down' buttons to call the lift and then getting into ones
>going in the wrong direction - with the inevitable result that lifts
>were stopping at floors too full to accept any more passengers and
>no-one was getting off and half the people in the lift were going the
>wrong way. Humans can be really silly - why go from level 1 to level 0
>via level 9 and thus obstruct people trying to get from 7 to 2 and end
>up taking much longer for your own journey?

Once you have seen two or three cars that were too full
to take one more passenger, you may be struck by the
inspiration that "getting on" is what you need to do.

Mathematical queuing theory speaks to capacity versus
demand. And "nominal max capacity" is often a lot larger
(twice as much, or three times) than the capacity where
service remains good. And that is true even before
human beings start changing their behavior to compensate
for the delays.

Designers are usually aware of the potential problems,
but they have to convince penny-pinching managers.

I read of one situation where complaints about slow
elevators were reduced by a lot after mirrors (for
primping, etc.) were installed.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Whiskers]

Petition for higher Elves for higher floors!

[Whiskers]

I suspect the car park lifts that annoyed me the other day are set to
respond only to the 'open doors' button when really busy; they just stop
at each floor and wait for n seconds after the 'open doors' button was
last pressed before continuing to the next floor. When traffic is light
they 'park' wherever the last passenger got off and then direct to the
next call button.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Dec-21 00:25, Whiskers wrote:
> On 2015-12-20, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

>> Interesting: not a single woman appears in that clip.
>
> Nor even a married one <grin> That may well reflect the reality of the
> time; women were discouraged from careers in engineering. At the end
> of WWII women who'd been working as engineers and technicians were
> sacked to make jobs for the men coming back from military service - that
> sort of mindset persisted for a long time afterwards and still hasn't
> entirely disappeared.

As an engineering academic I witnessed many attempts to recruit women
into engineering courses. The success rate was poor. I particularly
recall a time when a colleague wrote to a number of local schools asking
whether they would be interested in a visit from someone who could talk
about careers in engineering. One headmistress called back and said
"You've written to us by accident. This is a girls' school."

The biggest problem was that it was difficult to get girls in high
school to elect to do the advanced mathematics subjects. Even now, when
girls are doing better than boys at most school subjects, the girls
avoid the mathematics and science subjects. (Except biology.)

There is probably some cultural reason, related to the guidance that
girls get from parents and teachers. I think China has many female
engineers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[John Varela]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:38:34 UTC, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

> This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:
>
> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift

IIRC, an elevator very like that one appears in the Cary
Grant-Audrey Hepburn movie /Charade/. I tried but failed to find a
clip of that one.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 13:38:09 UTC, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

> The foyer is very splendid as you can see in these pictures:
>
> http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/photo-galleries/public-areas

ObAUE: That area is far too large and too grand to be a "foyer" in
AmE. We would call it a lobby.

--
John Varela

[Whiskers]

Until there is a critical mass of female engineers visible to the public
and being role models for children (of all genders and sexes) the
illusion that 'women don't do that sort of thing' will persist. It's
hard to get that critical mass in the face of the inertia; WWI and WWII
managed it by the rather drastic measure of removing most of the men and
exploiting government propaganda ('Rosy the Riveter' etc). But outside
the Soviet Union as soon as the war was over all the propaganda returned
to promoting the joys of domesticity - reinforced in many cases by
sacking the female engineers explicitly for being female. How many
magazines and comics aimed at girls and women promote engineering as a
feminine career? (I remember there was a woman scientist in the Dan
Dare stories in the Eagle comic in the '50s and '60s - just the one,
that's why I remember!).

There needs to be an obverse societal change to make it 'normal' for
males to adopt currently 'feminine' roles such as child care, nursing,
home-making, etc. Change is happening - slowly.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

To me, in BrE it is too large to be a lobby.

This building in Paris is "le Foyer".
http://www.fie.fr/en/the-foyer/

It presumably has an entrance lobby. Would that be a foyer within a
foyer?

I happen to know of that building because my mother lived there as a
student in 1930/31.

[Mark Brader]

Laura Spira:

> > This is my favourite lift, in my favourite hotel:
> > http://www.metropolehotel.com/en/news/renovation-belle-epoque-lift

John Varela:

> IIRC, an elevator very like that one appears in the Cary
> Grant-Audrey Hepburn movie /Charade/.

That'd be this one:

http://www.lindafranz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Charade-elevator-01.jpg

Change the final 1 to 2, 3, and 4 for more shots from the scene.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
"sci fi: the plural of scum fum" -- Spider Robinson

[John Varela]

In AmE a lobby might include a foyer. Are you saying that in BrE a
foyer might include a lobby?

--
John Varela

[Richard Tobin]

In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-4ngDEfZl9wTp@localhost>,

John Varela <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>In AmE a lobby might include a foyer. Are you saying that in BrE a
>foyer might include a lobby?

Both of these seem like technical terms of the hotel and similar
trades. I don't have any intuition as to the difference between
them.

-- Richard

[LFS]

I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
the US.

Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.

[Katy Jennison]

I'm with Peter: a foyer (BrE) is large and potentially grand, a lobby is
just an entrance. You might pass through the lobby into the foyer.

--
Katy Jennison

[David Kleinecke]

I've never heard the front hall called a lobby or a foyer. Some people
call a large area replacing a hall a foyer - but never a lobby.

Do houses in the UK always have no more than one hall?

My modest dwelling has two.

[Tony Cooper]

Just the opposite in the US. There is a foyer in my house - just
inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
miles away. Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.

Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?

Drifting only slightly...there is a chain of hobby and craft stores in
the US by the name of "Hobby Lobby". I can't understand the
connection between hobby and lobby except for the obvious rhyme.
"Hobby Bobby" would make as much sense.

Hobby Lobby is owned by a devout Christian. The stores are closed on
Sunday. They have fought the Affordable Care Act because they do not
want to provide employees with family planning benefits (and
specifically the "morning after pill") and taken the case to the
Supreme Court. They won.

For many years, they refused to stock merchandise celebrating Jewish
holidays or bar/bat mitzvahs. This changed only in 2013.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Mark Brader]

Laura Spira:

>> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
>> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
>> the US.

To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
"concierge" desk for that for of thing.

A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.

>> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
>> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
>> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.

I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
actual theater (auditorium) from.

Tony Cooper:

> Just the opposite in the US. There is a foyer in my house - just
> inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
> miles away. Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.

For me, houses don't have foyers either. If there's a small room
just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
"vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

> Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?

Neither of those for me -- it's "foy-yea".

--
Mark Brader | "No [flying machine] will ever fly from New York to
Toronto | Paris ...[because] no known motor can run at the
m...@vex.net | requisite speed for four days without stopping..."
| -- Orville Wright, March 1909
My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Apartment houses have lobbies (where the mailboxes and elevator doors are),
apartments have foyers (what their outer doors open into).

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 8:09:54 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Drifting only slightly...there is a chain of hobby and craft stores in
> the US by the name of "Hobby Lobby". I can't understand the
> connection between hobby and lobby except for the obvious rhyme.
> "Hobby Bobby" would make as much sense.
>
> Hobby Lobby is owned by a devout Christian. The stores are closed on
> Sunday. They have fought the Affordable Care Act because they do not
> want to provide employees with family planning benefits (and
> specifically the "morning after pill") and taken the case to the
> Supreme Court. They won.
>
> For many years, they refused to stock merchandise celebrating Jewish
> holidays or bar/bat mitzvahs. This changed only in 2013.

They have in less than five years amassed a "collection" of more than
40,000 supposed "antiquities" -- most of them probably either forgeries
or looted by ISIS -- and are building an immense "Bible Museum" in
Washington, DC, to show them off. Hopefully they'll be prosecuted under the
statutes dealing with trafficking with the enemy.

Legitimate scholars are not granted access to study the "antiquities."

There was recently an extended expose in The Atlantic, which is surprising
given that magazine's recent hard turn to the right.

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 23:22:15 +0000, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

Old-fashioned cinemas used to have foyers, where people gathered for
refreshments during the interval. I never heard that referred to as a
lobby.

I have been in the lobby of the House of Commons, though, which was
much smaller.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter Moylan]

I alternate between foy-yer and fwa-yea.

[John Ritson]

In article <n5a3ic$9d7$3...@news.albasani.net>, Katy Jennison
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> writes

No self-respecting building these days has a lobby or a foyer. What you
need is an atrium.

--
John Ritson

[Steve Hayes]

con una fuente pequeno en el centro?

[RH Draney]

I'll put it next to the vestibule....r

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 23:22:15 +0000, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

Lowering the tone somewhat:

OED:
lobby, n.

3.
a. In the House of Commons, and other houses of legislature, a large
entrance-hall or apartment open to the public, and chiefly serving
for interviews between members and persons not belonging to the
House;

Hence the verb "to lobby" and the noun "lobbyist", etc.

That definitions uses what seems to be an older sense of "apartment":
"place appropriated to any purpose" or "A separate division of any
enclosure; a compartment".

[charles]

In article <gdai7bte45e2cffc8...@4ax.com>,

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

I wonder if a "vestibule" is somewhere that you divest yourself of your
outer garments?

[Katy Jennison]

We had one of those in our previous house. We've downsized to a hall.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Would that be before or after using the "vomitorium"?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/vomitorium

2 A place in which, according to popular misconception, the ancient
Romans are supposed to have vomited during feasts to make room for
more food.

More accurately:

1 Each of a series of entrance or exit passages in an ancient Roman
amphitheatre or theatre.

[Tony Cooper]

A foyer, in my view, is not an enclosed room. It's an area. It may
be bounded by walls, but there need not be doors in the walls. In our
house, to the left of the foyer is an arched opening to the dining
room, to the right is an opening to the living room, and straight
ahead is a hall to other rooms.

A person just entering the house through the front door is in the
foyer, but not in any room in the house.

A vestibule, in my view, is enclosed. Like the foyer, it is a area,
but unlike the foyer there is a door to go through to get to other
rooms.

A vestibule is a northern thing because it's a weather barrier. The
person entering doesn't expose the house to the outside weather.

There is, of course, the outside vestibule on a train. Different
thing.

>
>> Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?
>
>Neither of those for me -- it's "foy-yea".
>
--

[John Varela]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 04:32:19 UTC, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Laura Spira:
> >> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
> >> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
> >> the US.
>
> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.

Agree

> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.

In a grand hotel the lobby may comprise a large area with subsidiary
hallways running off of it, and perhaps some areas with bar or even
restaurant service. The "atrium" of the typical Hyatt Regency hotel
would be a lobby if the ceiling were brought down to about 20 or 30
feet high.

> >> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
> >> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
> >> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
>
> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> actual theater (auditorium) from.

You are talking about the area with the concession stand, are you
not? That is still a lobby to me.

> Tony Cooper:
> > Just the opposite in the US. There is a foyer in my house - just
> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
> > miles away. Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.
>
> For me, houses don't have foyers either.

I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more
impressive than an entry.

> If there's a small room
> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate
that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door
in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor
air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
waiting to be admitted to the house proper.

We have enclosed a small area, about three feet deep by six feet
wide, in front of our original entry door. This is a small
vestibule. After passing through the inner door one enters what
might be called a foyer (though I don't call it that; I call it the
entry), about seven feet deep by the same six feet wide. From it to
the left, closed off by a pocket door (q.v.), is the kitchen. In
front is a wide opening into the living room, and to the right is a
hall leading to the bedroom area. The vestibule is where I put some
annual plants during the winter because, though it's not heated out
there, it doesn't freeze either.

> > Now, is it pronounced "foy-yer" or "foe-yea"?
>
> Neither of those for me -- it's "foy-yea".

I try to avoid having to say the word.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:08:23 UTC, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

It could be. When I was in college I lived in a row house in Boston
that had a large vestibule. It was probably eight feet wide by ten
feet long, and included two or three steps leading up to the front
door. We didn't shed our outer clothing there, but that is where we
did leave our snow boots or rubbers.

--
John Varela

[Tony Cooper]

On 23 Dec 2015 02:26:44 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>> Tony Cooper:
>> > Just the opposite in the US. There is a foyer in my house - just
>> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
>> > miles away. Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.
>>
>> For me, houses don't have foyers either.
>
>I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
>usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more
>impressive than an entry.

We blame real estate agents for a lot of things that they don't
originate. The word "foyer" for the area that is the entranceway to a
house has been used a lot longer than real estate agents have been
wearing gold sportcoats. It comes to us from the French word for
"hearth, home" and before that from the Latin "focarius".

On an architect's floorplan, that area has to have some sort of label.
Some floorplans label it a foyer, some use "entry", and some other
terms. If anything, real estate agents have picked it up from
architects.

Personally, I thing "entry hall" is much more the high-faluting
designation. I have that area in my house, and it's not at all as
grand as a hall. A hallway leads off it, but there's no standing suit
of armor or ancestor portraits in the hall. One wall has an ink and
watercolor painting of the house in which my wife was born and three
framed sets of old postcards from our hometowns. The other wall has a
framed set of my photographs. You can stand in the middle of that
hallway and touch both walls. That's not a "hall".

>
>
>> If there's a small room
>> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
>> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
>> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".

The door is the entry. It's the space it opens to that needs a term.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <uaqdnZfJXLjOT-XL...@giganews.com>,

m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Laura Spira:
> >> I think that the entrance of a hotel may lead to a lobby or a foyer, or
> >> it may just be referred to as Reception. I've heard lobby more often in
> >> the US.
>
> To me, "reception" or simply "the front desk" is where you go to check
> in, check out (in hotels where this isn't automatic), and make payments.
> In smaller hotels this is also where you go to (or phone) to report
> problems or ask for local advice; larger ones may have a separate
> "concierge" desk for that for of thing.
>
> A hotel "lobby" is an open area with seats, like a waiting room.
> It is typically adjacent to the front desk but doesn't have to be.
> Houses don't have lobbies in my usage.
>
> >> Foyer sounds bigger and more impressive. Perhaps I have that impression
> >> because in some parts of the UK people refer to the hallway of their
> >> house as the lobby: I've never heard anyone call that a foyer.
>
> I don't usually use "foyer" at all, but I associate it with buildings
> like theaters, where it would mean the public area that you enter the
> actual theater (auditorium) from.

Hmm. In all the theatres I worked, the lobby is the very large and
impressive (back in the day) area just beyond the entry doors and before
you enter the theater.

--
Charl3e

[LFS]

An area I have always known in BrE as the foyer...

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Ditto.

[bill van]

In article <ddv1rm...@mid.individual.net>,

In leftpondia movie theatres, the lobby is indeed the large space
between the box office and the actual theatre where one finds washrooms
and especially, the snack counter. It can be bigger than the theatre
itself because it has to accommodate long lineups for popcorn and soft
drinks. Those of us who went to the movies from the late 1950s through
the next few decades were treated 15 minutes or so before the main
feature to the immortal animated ditty, "Let's all go to the lobby".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWFX4ylV_ko

At drive-in theatres, the tune was "Let's all go to the snack bar".

I thought the local venue for live opera might use "foyer" for the
equivalent space, but I've just had a look at the website and it's also
a lobby.
--
bill

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
> ... rubbers.

titters.

My flat has a vestibule. It's the gap between the outer front door and the inner front door, where the electric meter lives.

Owain

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:26:49 UTC, John Varela wrote:
> I agree with you about a vestibule, except that I would stipulate
> that the inner door has a lock on it and is a regular exterior door
> in both appearance and heft. The vestibule itself is not heated nor
> air conditioned. It is where visitors stand out of the weather while
> waiting to be admitted to the house proper.

That's a BrE porch.

Owain

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 14:47:26 -0800 (PST), spuorg...@gowanhill.com
wrote:

We call that our outer hall because it's grafted onto the outside of the
house. The inner hall is the bit inside the original front door, which
is inside the structure of the house.

--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[bill van]

In article <p7am7b59ihfh7rlca...@4ax.com>,

Sounds like the "mud room" in many suburban NA houses, where muddy shoes
and boots are removed, and coats may be hanged.
--
bill

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 15:29:28 -0800, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

A "mud room", in my experience is accessed from the side or back of
the house or through the garage. The mud room in our house in the
Chicago area was entered from the back of the house or the through the
garage; doors to both.


The (pick a term) being described elseplace is part of the front - or
main - entryway.

[Peter T. Daniels]

What did your coats ever do to you?

[charles]

In article <c87151ca-3a0b-45a6...@googlegroups.com>,

A porch is generally a protrusion at the front, a vestibule is integral.

--
Please note new email address:
cha...@CandEhope.me.uk

[Charles Bishop]

In article <ddv1rm...@mid.individual.net>,
LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the
theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks,
popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market)
prices.

--
charfles

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Dec-25 03:40, Charles Bishop wrote:

> Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the
> theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks,
> popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market)
> prices.

If it were a free market, you'd be allowed to bring in your own popcorn.

[bill van]

In article <n5i3qs$b6l$4...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 2015-Dec-25 03:40, Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> > Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the
> > theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks,
> > popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market)
> > prices.
>
> If it were a free market, you'd be allowed to bring in your own popcorn.

That is what pro-free-marketers mean by free markets: the right to ban
competition from a given venue, so that you can charge extortionist
prices.
--
bill

[Charles Bishop]

In article <billvan-AA805A...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,

Yes, I knew that, and couldn't word the joke properly.

--
charles, still not sure what I meant

[John Varela]

In AmE a porch has a roof but at least one side open to the weather.
A vestibule has a roof -- or more likely is within the exterior wall
of the house (this is the case of the one at my house) -- and is
enclosed on four sides.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:26:05 UTC, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Dec 2015 02:26:44 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> Tony Cooper:
> >> > Just the opposite in the US. There is a foyer in my house - just
> >> > inside the front door - but the closest lobby is in a hotel a few
> >> > miles away. Or maybe in a bank somewhat closer.
> >>
> >> For me, houses don't have foyers either.
> >
> >I believe that "foyer" to mean the entry hall in a private home is a
> >usage propagated by real estate agents, who think a foyer is more
> >impressive than an entry.
>
> We blame real estate agents for a lot of things that they don't
> originate. The word "foyer" for the area that is the entranceway to a
> house has been used a lot longer than real estate agents have been
> wearing gold sportcoats. It comes to us from the French word for
> "hearth, home" and before that from the Latin "focarius".

I never doubted the word came to us from French and ultimately
Latin. Let us note that "foyer" in BrE means what you and I would
call a "lobby". Someone is responsible for the word's application to
a much smaller space in AmE.

> On an architect's floorplan, that area has to have some sort of label.
> Some floorplans label it a foyer, some use "entry", and some other
> terms. If anything, real estate agents have picked it up from
> architects.

You may be right about that. My house was built in 1960 but I do
have the architectural drawings for it. The space we have been
discussing was labeled "foyer" by the architect.

> Personally, I thing "entry hall" is much more the high-faluting
> designation. I have that area in my house, and it's not at all as
> grand as a hall.

Elsethread I've given the dimensions of our entry as about six feet
wide by nine feet deep. Because of the wide opening to the living
room, it's almost an alcove.

Friends who live in a far newer house have a space that leads about
fifteen or twenty feet from the front door into the living room and
kitchen area. This space is defined on the left by a wall and on the
right by a railing, on the other side of which is the dining room.
It crosses a transverse hall and then joins the living room. I would
call this area an entry, and neither a hall nor a foyer.

> A hallway leads off it, but there's no standing suit
> of armor or ancestor portraits in the hall. One wall has an ink and
> watercolor painting of the house in which my wife was born and three
> framed sets of old postcards from our hometowns. The other wall has a
> framed set of my photographs. You can stand in the middle of that
> hallway and touch both walls. That's not a "hall".
> >
> >
> >> If there's a small room
> >> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
> >> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
> >> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".
>
> The door is the entry. It's the space it opens to that needs a term.

The door is the entrance. The space beyond the door is the entry.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:47:26 UTC, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:

> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
> > ... rubbers.
>
> titters.

I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

> My flat has a vestibule. It's the gap between the outer front door and the inner front door, where the electric meter lives.
>
> Owain
>

--
John Varela

[LFS]

On 25/12/2015 19:03, John Varela wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:47:26 UTC, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
>>> ... rubbers.
>>
>> titters.
>
> I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

But it's such a lovely word! My cousin, growing up in the 1930s in a
Yiddish speaking immigrant family, learned that there were some words
used at home that his English school pals wouldn't understand: he
believed that galoshes was one of them and was astonished to discover as
an adult that it wasn't Yiddish after all...

[Tony Cooper]

On 25 Dec 2015 19:03:30 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:47:26 UTC, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
>> > ... rubbers.
>>
>> titters.
>
>I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".
>

I certainly did. How well I remember putting on my galoshes in the
cloak room and leaving school without buckling the hasps. It was not
cool to buckle the hasps, but the buckles on one foot caught on
buckles of the other foot and caused one to trip and fall. That was
the price for being cool.

These are the galoshes with buckles:
https://img1.etsystatic.com/030/0/7095118/il_570xN.627963011_q5xb.jpg

The term "rubbers", for rainwear, was used but rubbers just covered
the shoes. Galoshes came up well above the ankles. Adults wore
rubbers.

[Jerry Friedman]

All the same in my childhood, except that "galoshes" was a word in books.
We called them boots or snow boots. I had rubbers for rain, which
I didn't like, and boots for snow.

Also, there was no peer pressure against buckling boots. The eastern
suburbs of Cleveland get more snow than Indianapolis.

--
Jerry Friedman

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Friday, 25 December 2015 19:03:32 UTC, John Varela wrote:
> > > ... rubbers.
> > titters.
> I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

Is *that* what you meant? We would wear wellington boots (wellies) in inclement weather.

Owain

[Lewis]

In message <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-znhYdzrDNCtU@localhost>

As some of use have discovered over the years here, there is no one
single meaning for "porch".


--
I WILL NOT TRADE PANTS WITH OTHERS Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F05

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 23:09:10 UTC, Robin Bignall wrote:
> We call that our outer hall because it's grafted onto the outside of the
> house. The inner hall is the bit inside the original front door, which
> is inside the structure of the house.

In many houses the outer (or front) hall would be between the front door and the lounge; the inner hall would be the other side of the lounge and lead into the kitchen utility room etc.

Owain

[Tony Cooper]

I have misled you if you've come away thinking there was peer pressure
involved. It was strictly an independent decision of what would be
cool. I'm not at all sure if anyone else paid attention to my
coolness or lack of it.

Another word for "galoshes", by the way, was "overshoes".

[Janet]

In article <ab806bde-fa98-4f9f...@googlegroups.com>,
spuorg...@gowanhill.com says...

Galoshes are worn over shoes, wellies aren't.

Janet UK

[Tony Cooper]

If wellies were ever popular in the US before, say, 2000, the
popularity never made it to Indiana. Small children wore boots like
that, but not older children or adults.

To this day, to buy that style of boot in this area one has to go to a
marine store. The wellie style is considered a fishing boat boot.

While you are correct that galoshes were worn over shoes, the
practical side was that when we outgrew our galoshes over shoes we
would then wear them without shoes and carry our shoes. Things
weren't replaced as readily then.

[RH Draney]

On 12/25/2015 12:03 PM, John Varela wrote:
>
> I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

Prepare for a life-altering experience:

https://youtu.be/0uuCNAwXGaQ

....r

[Lewis]

In message <ab806bde-fa98-4f9f...@googlegroups.com>

Not the same thing. Wellingtons are boots, Galoshes are rubber things
you wear over shoes.

--
"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first
thought of." - Burt Bacharach

[charles]

In article <slrnn7rk1n....@amelia.local>,

to broacasting engineers, it has another meaning altogether/

[Charles Bishop]

In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-dZ1YGotB9iXt@localhost>,

"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:47:26 UTC, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
> > > ... rubbers.
> >
> > titters.
>
> I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

I give you a late Christmas present of Calvin and Hobbes

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2012/01/28

[snip]

--
charles

[John Varela]

And also in incredible sizes. Last (Christmas) night I went to a
movie for the first time in ages (the new Star Wars movie) in a
group that included one 15-year old and two thirteen-year-old boys.
You can't imagine the amount of food and drink they picked up. Well,
maybe you could imagine it. I couldn't have.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

You are talking about WWII, when things made of rubber were hard to
get? As a boy I never wore any kind of rubber overshoe. It doesn't
snow in New Orleans, and one just learns to tolerate the torrential
rains.

This thread has informed me that "galoshes" are what I learned in
Boston to wear and to call "snow boots". Until now I thought
galoshes were any kind of rubber overshoe.

--
John Varela

[Tony Cooper]

On 26 Dec 2015 22:57:55 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>

wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 01:38:37 UTC, Tony Cooper
><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2015 01:07:33 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <ab806bde-fa98-4f9f...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >spuorg...@gowanhill.com says...
>> >>
>> >> On Friday, 25 December 2015 19:03:32 UTC, John Varela wrote:
>> >> > > > ... rubbers.
>> >> > > titters.
>> >> > I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".
>> >>
>> >> Is *that* what you meant? We would wear wellington boots (wellies) in inclement weather.
>> >
>> > Galoshes are worn over shoes, wellies aren't.
>> >
>> > Janet UK
>>
>> If wellies were ever popular in the US before, say, 2000, the
>> popularity never made it to Indiana. Small children wore boots like
>> that, but not older children or adults.
>>
>> To this day, to buy that style of boot in this area one has to go to a
>> marine store. The wellie style is considered a fishing boat boot.
>>
>> While you are correct that galoshes were worn over shoes, the
>> practical side was that when we outgrew our galoshes over shoes we
>> would then wear them without shoes and carry our shoes. Things
>> weren't replaced as readily then.
>
>You are talking about WWII, when things made of rubber were hard to
>get?

It was really more that my family didn't just run out and buy new
things that easily. We made do.

>As a boy I never wore any kind of rubber overshoe. It doesn't
>snow in New Orleans, and one just learns to tolerate the torrential
>rains.
>
>This thread has informed me that "galoshes" are what I learned in
>Boston to wear and to call "snow boots". Until now I thought
>galoshes were any kind of rubber overshoe.

They are rubber overshoes.
https://img0.etsystatic.com/022/0/5427515/il_570xN.477907114_24d0.jpg

[GordonD]

Tying into the Christmas cracker joke thread, "Galosh!" is what a
surprised wellington says.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-12-25 19:03:30 +0000, John Varela said:

> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:47:26 UTC, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 23 December 2015 02:31:11 UTC, John Varela wrote:
>>> ... rubbers.
>>
>> titters.
>
> I do not now nor have I ever used the word "galoshes".

"Galoshless is foolishness, when sharply slants the sleet" (Paul
Jennings, The Jenguin Pennings)

>
>> My flat has a vestibule. It's the gap between the outer front door and
>> the inner front door, where the electric meter lives.
>>
>> Owain


--

athel

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

"Concession stand" seems to be AmE rather than BrE.

In BrE-land someone may indeed have a concession to operate a stand
selling edibles or something, and although described in business jargon
as a "concession stand" it don't think it would be known to the general
public as such. It would be referred to by what it was selling.

(I sit comfortably to be corrected.)

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <k7ov7bp7ml8vpklma...@4ax.com>,

Still comfy? I have a dim recollection that we did this before and I was
surprised by the BrE meaning. Snack Bar might also be used and there
seems to be one other that I can't yet call from long term storage.
Apparently, they have to shift some boxes and then examine the contents
to find the term.

Candy in boxes, drinks from a dispenser and popcorn were the three main
items we sold. Four, four were the main items we sold, candy in boxes,
drinks from a dispenser, popcorn and hot dogs, kept warm in a small oven
were the four main items we sold.

Now, I'm given to understand you can get a possibly gourmet mean served
to you at your table inside the theatre.

--
charles

--
charles

[bill van]

In article <de9upt...@mid.individual.net>,

When dining out, never order the beef Galosh.
--
bill

[Jerry Friedman]

To me, "cool" when applied to clothing strongly implies what others will
think, especially in an impersonal statement such as "it was not cool",
but that may be just me.

> It was strictly an independent decision of what would be
> cool. I'm not at all sure if anyone else paid attention to my
> coolness or lack of it.
>
> Another word for "galoshes", by the way, was "overshoes".

Another one I knew but didn't hear much.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Snidely]

John Varela used thar keyboard to writen:

> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 04:26:05 UTC, Tony Cooper
> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

[much detail thrown untidily to the side]

> Elsethread I've given the dimensions of our entry as about six feet
> wide by nine feet deep. Because of the wide opening to the living
> room, it's almost an alcove.
>
> Friends who live in a far newer house have a space that leads about
> fifteen or twenty feet from the front door into the living room and
> kitchen area. This space is defined on the left by a wall and on the
> right by a railing, on the other side of which is the dining room.
> It crosses a transverse hall and then joins the living room. I would
> call this area an entry, and neither a hall nor a foyer.
>

[...]

>>>
>>>> If there's a small room
>>>> just inside the front door, with a separate inner door, I'd accept
>>>> "vestibule" for that, but I've never lived in a house that had one.
>>>> Otherwise I'd just go with "hall" or some usage with "entry".
>>
>> The door is the entry. It's the space it opens to that needs a term.
>
> The door is the entrance. The space beyond the door is the entry.

The houses I was raised in (that I can remember) had porches. For the
first, with an unshielded porch, the front door opened directly into
the living room. In the second, with a partially enclosed porch, the
front door opened into a hallway. My aunt's house had a larger
partially enclosed porch, and a front door opening into a hallway that
included a stairway. My aunt also had a cottage still on the property,
with an unshielded porch and a front door opening directly into the
living room, but that door was never used. The back porch was roofed,
and the door led into the kitchen; opposite to the door was the "door"
of the woodshed.

3 of the houses I've been involved with as an adult have had unshielded
porches and front doors directly into the living room, and 2 have had
unshielded porches and front doors leading into a hallway (without and
with stairs, in turn). All of those houses have been newer than the
houses of my childhood.

2 apartments which I have tenanted have opened directly into the living
room, but one was sheltered by the 2nd floor walkway, and one by a
roofed stairwell between building units.

No vestibules were harmed in making this post.

/dps

--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

[Snidely]

Remember when Jerry Friedman bragged outrageously? That was Sunday:

For me, "overshoes" was what some call "rubbers", being used for the
things one pulled on over shoes.

We had rainboots and galoshes, and I'm not sure what distinguished
galoshes ... perhaps buckles, because rainboots didn't have them.
Rubber boots was used for the grown-up ones with laces at the top,
either olive drab or black (outside workers vs plumbers, I think).

And then there were the leather work boots, and the neatsfoot oil, or
mink oil. Some might call them timber cruisers. Wolverine was a
popular brand.

Portland had at least 1 week of snow a year. The rest of the time, we
kept the webbing between our toes in good shape.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

[Peter Moylan]

One thing that makes me reluctant to go to picture theatres is the stink
of popcorn. I can't stand it. I'm OK with the quantity of popcorn that
might be made in one's own home, but in industrial quantities it's
nauseating.

The movies I'm likely to want to see don't seem to attract popcorn
eaters, so that's good as far as it goes. But I still have to make my
way across the lobby.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[John Varela]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:32:32 UTC, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> For me, "overshoes" was what some call "rubbers", being used for the
> things one pulled on over shoes.

I take "overshoe" to be anything that is worn with shoes inside.
That would include rubbers, galoshes, and those stretchy Totes
boots, which are the best kind.

Apparently, if the OED is to be believed, those paper things that
workmen put on over their boots before coming into the house are
overshoes. I had always thought of overshoes as having to be made of
rubber and for outdoor use only.

OED:

orig. U.S.

A shoe worn over an ordinary shoe, either to provide protection
from wet, dirt, cold, etc., or to prevent damage to or soiling of
the floor.

1770 L. Carter Diary 25 Jan. (1965) I. 350 The earth was as miry
as could possibly be. It was overshoes even to my little house in
the hard gravel walks.

--
John Varela

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On 28 Dec 2015 21:49:15 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:32:32 UTC, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> For me, "overshoes" was what some call "rubbers", being used for the
>> things one pulled on over shoes.
>
>I take "overshoe" to be anything that is worn with shoes inside.
>That would include rubbers, galoshes, and those stretchy Totes
>boots, which are the best kind.
>
>Apparently, if the OED is to be believed, those paper things that
>workmen put on over their boots before coming into the house are
>overshoes. I had always thought of overshoes as having to be made of
>rubber and for outdoor use only.
>

I've had a look on Amazon UK for such things. The majority of those used
indoors are made of plastic and seem to be called "shoe covers". The
word "booties" is sometimes used.

Those descriptions are also used on Amazon US.
For instance:
http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Covers-Disposable-Paper-Booties/dp/B005VDEK1Q

Anti Skid Shoe Covers Disposable Blue 100 Pc Paper Booties

The phrase "disposable overshoes" is also used.

>OED:
>
>orig. U.S.
>
> A shoe worn over an ordinary shoe, either to provide protection
>from wet, dirt, cold, etc., or to prevent damage to or soiling of
>the floor.
>
>1770 L. Carter Diary 25 Jan. (1965) I. 350 The earth was as miry
>as could possibly be. It was overshoes even to my little house in
>the hard gravel walks.

--

[Charles Bishop]

In article <n5r09g$k0b$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 2015-Dec-27 09:40, John Varela wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 16:40:36 UTC, Charles Bishop
> > <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> Ah there's that Common Language thing again. I forgot to add that the
> >> theatre lobby also includes the concession stand, where candy, drinks,
> >> popcorn and snacks can be purchased for outrageous (but free market)
> >> prices.
> >
> > And also in incredible sizes. Last (Christmas) night I went to a
> > movie for the first time in ages (the new Star Wars movie) in a
> > group that included one 15-year old and two thirteen-year-old boys.
> > You can't imagine the amount of food and drink they picked up. Well,
> > maybe you could imagine it. I couldn't have.
>
> One thing that makes me reluctant to go to picture theatres is the stink
> of popcorn. I can't stand it. I'm OK with the quantity of popcorn that
> might be made in one's own home, but in industrial quantities it's
> nauseating.

I think there was a ban on popping popcorn in the microwave at various
places of employment. The smell, while attractive to the poppee, can be
otherwise to those close by.

I don't know that the odor bothers me but I'm sympathetic to those for
whom it's odious.

>
> The movies I'm likely to want to see don't seem to attract popcorn
> eaters, so that's good as far as it goes. But I still have to make my
> way across the lobby.

Do you think the odor comes from the popcorn itself, or the "butter" or
"flavoring" that is put on it? One theatre where I worked bought the
popcorn, already popped, in large bags, then put the popcorn into a
container that had a "popper" in it so that it looked as if it was
popped there. We used clarified butter (ghee?) on it since this didn't
need refrigeration.

There is (was?) a hardware store in SF that popped popcorn and would
give you a bag when you came in.

charles, banged grains for Lewis

[Will Parsons]

Indeed, I think the problem is more likely to be that (imitation)
"butter", rather than the popcorn itself.

> One theatre where I worked bought the
> popcorn, already popped, in large bags, then put the popcorn into a
> container that had a "popper" in it so that it looked as if it was
> popped there. We used clarified butter (ghee?) on it since this didn't
> need refrigeration.

In my experiences the popcorn is indeed popped on the premises, but
I'm pretty sure that "clarified butter" or "ghee" would not be used.
Much more likely a "butter" flavo(u)red oil would be used (much
cheaper, and people going to movies aren't going to notice the
difference, are they?).

> There is (was?) a hardware store in SF that popped popcorn and would
> give you a bag when you came in.
>
> charles, banged grains for Lewis

Popcorn is cheap. Too bad that inferior popcorn is sold at
ridiculously inflated prices at these places.

--
Will

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Dec-30 14:07, Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article <n5r09g$k0b$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> One thing that makes me reluctant to go to picture theatres is the stink
>> of popcorn. I can't stand it. I'm OK with the quantity of popcorn that
>> might be made in one's own home, but in industrial quantities it's
>> nauseating.
>
> I think there was a ban on popping popcorn in the microwave at various
> places of employment. The smell, while attractive to the poppee, can be
> otherwise to those close by.
>
> I don't know that the odor bothers me but I'm sympathetic to those for
> whom it's odious.
>>
>> The movies I'm likely to want to see don't seem to attract popcorn
>> eaters, so that's good as far as it goes. But I still have to make my
>> way across the lobby.
>
> Do you think the odor comes from the popcorn itself, or the "butter" or
> "flavoring" that is put on it?

You might have put your finger on it. Rancid butter?

[Lewis]

In message <ctbishop-042C2E...@news.individual.net>

Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> charles, banged grains for Lewis

Mmmm, I do love me some banged grains.

--
National Socialism is not Socialism, any more than the Black Panthers
were actually cats. @jearl

[Charles Bishop]

In article <slrnn86l09...@anukis.local>,

We've mentioned this in passing but, . . . The prices are certainly
higher than I would pay but lots of people do pay them. There are lots
of cases like this though, where the prices are set where there aren't
many choices. I don't know if this is still the case, but back in the
day, part of the theatre manager's compensation came from the concession
stand. That and the fact that a patron's choices are limited mean the
prices can be higher and are not seen as too high to buy the stuff by
some of the patrons.

--
charles

[rose...@hotmail.co.uk]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 3:47:44 PM UTC, John Ritson wrote:
> I encountered a reference to a 'mouse-trap lift' (in a night-club in
> London during WWII).
> What could it have been?
> All I can imagine is a metal bar coming down abruptly to keep the
> passengers away from the wall of the lift shaft.
>
> --
> John Ritson

Was the book Stalin's Englishman because i read it today ?