Pronounciation of "route" and "router"
Urs Beeli
different ways. Of course, living in Switzerland, few of those who say it
are native english speakers so I never thought about which of the two
versions was correct (or even both).
For me, having learnt French before English, it was always clear that
"route" is pronounced to rhyme with "root", like its French equivalent.
Hence, I also pronounced "router" to sound like "rooter".
I have lately listened to a podcast done by some US americans who repeatedly
pronounced "route" to rhyme with "about" - the second way I have been
hearing "router" pronounced.
Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both
with the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
"about" before.
That got me wondering what the proper pronounciation is.
Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root" version?
Or is it independent of your position to the pond and influenced by other
factors?
Or even worse, has the french influence long gone and the only correct
pronounciation follows the "about" sound and I have been saying it wrong for
years?
I'm sure there are people here who lead me to the correct route.
Cheers
/urs
--
Urs Beeli, Switzerland, AusE
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine." R.C. Gallagher
Nick Spalding
on 28 Jun 2011 12:11:31 GMT:
In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
"about" it is a wood-working tool.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
CT
> Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
> version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root"
> version?
This ^
--
Chris
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
The word "router" in the computer context uses the sense of the verb
"route" "To send or forward by a specific route".
Route has two pronunciations in AmE: the "-oot" one and the "-out" one.
"-oot" is the normal pronuciation in BrE.
Soon after we had discussed this here a few years ago I was watching an
American film on TV. Two characters were discussing how to go to
somewhere. One pronounced "route" as "rout", the other as "root".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
o...@two.three
(in article <96tv7t...@mid.individual.net>):
It may be a bit more complicated than that: receivers in American football
run 'rowts' whereas Chuck Berry sings of 'Root' 66.
Percival P. Cassidy
I now use the "-out" pronunciation both for the woodworking tool and for
the networking device, probably because I became acquainted with the
latter only when I was living in Leftpondia. For "route" I sometimes use
the "rout" pronunciation and sometimes the "root" pronunciation.
Perce
(dual-citizen OzBrit -- aka "Ten-pound Pom" or "Whingeing Pommie
bastard" -- in exile in US Midwest)
Phil C.
> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
Does Canadian "route" rhyme with Canadian "about"? Hmm...
--
Phil C.
Urs Beeli
Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
pictures to really understand what it is :-)
You never stop learning.
Urs Beeli
Thanks to you and all the others who responded.
I'll happily keep using the -oot version then :-)
MC
"Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
French Canadian or English?
heh-heh-heh
My take on the whole thing:
Mostly Pondian, with BrE invariably -oot and AmE tending toward -out,
but not 100% consistent. Both are understood.
Someone mentioned the song Route 66, and in conversation I've never
heard an AmE speaker say "Route 66" with an -out - possibly because of
the song.
+++
Computer Lingo Sidebar
BrE "disc" = AmE "disk"
However, there's some crossover on both directions.
I've seen "hard disk" in BrE articles, and as far as I know "compact
disc" is always "disc" on both sides of the pond.
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
tony cooper
wrote:
>I work in IT and have for many years heard people say "router" in two
I am not in the business, but what I hear most and say is "rowter"
with the "row" part rhyming with "cow". A "rooter" would be a person
who cheers for a team.
I have also heard "rooter", but far less frequently. I have also
heard people say things like "I just bought a rooter? rowter?..."
indicating that they are unsure of which is acceptable.
A well-known company in the US is "Roto-Rooter". It's a plumbing
company that specializes in clearing clogged drains obstructed by
roots by sticking a mechanized chopping device down the drain. It's
kind of a joke over her to use Roto-Rooter in other context: "I had
that Roto-Rooter up my ass test last year" (colonoscopy)
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ian Jackson
<Nob...@NotMyISP.com> writes
French origin, than do the British. It therefore baffles me as to why
they (some, at least) should ever want to pronounce "route" as "rowt".
--
Ian
Ian Jackson
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
>
>
>I am not in the business, but what I hear most and say is "rowter"
>with the "row" part rhyming with "cow". A "rooter" would be a person
>who cheers for a team.
>
And spelt "rooter", too.
I doubt if "rooting" for something/somebody has any connection with
either "routing" or "routeing".
>
>
--
Ian
James Hogg
Well, there are a lot of Americans, and some of them are descended from
immigrants who brought the "rowt" pronunciation with them from Britain.
The OED says this:
"The pronunciation with a diphthong is recorded from the second half of
the 18th cent. and preferred by some, but not all commentators at that
time; it disappears from standard British English in the course of the
19th cent., but is still widespread in North America."
--
James
Adam Funk
http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00917517000-1
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Router_%28woodworking%29
--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
[H G Wells]
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
"Compact Disc" is a registered name.
The spelling "disc" is used in the official logo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_%28CD_standard%29
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On 2011-06-28, Urs Beeli wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:18:14 +0100 Nick Spalding wrote:
>
>>> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
>>> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
>>
>> Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
>> up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
>> pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>
>http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00917517000-1
>
>https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Router_%28woodworking%29
A drill can make a hole in a piece of wood. A router can make a groove.
The body of a drill moves towards the surface of the wood as the hole
gets deeper. The body of a router moves along the surface of the wood as
the groove is cut.
Ray O'Hara
"MC" <cope...@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5D3A3E...@news.eternal-september.org...
It's route = root and router is outer in Boston-Eastern Mass English.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
The OED says that the origin of that sense "is uncertain".
The compilers quote various suggestions that have been made but appear
to be underwhelmed by them.
MC
Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
And usage is a race between apostrophe and civilization.
Horace LaBadie
> On 2011-06-28, Urs Beeli wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:18:14 +0100 Nick Spalding wrote:
>
> >> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
> >> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
> >
> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>
> http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00917517000-1
>
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Router_%28woodworking%29
To make matters worse, the modern power router was preceded by the
router plane, which in some cases was also a plow/plough plane.
Joachim Pense
>
> Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
> up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
> pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>
> You never stop learning.
>
Leo gives the amusing German word "Handoberfrï¿œsmaschine". Talk about
German compounds...
Joachim
David Hatunen
> Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both with
> the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
> "about" before.
>
> That got me wondering what the proper pronounciation is.
>
> Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
> version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root"
> version?
While Americans seem to prefer that "route" rhyme with "about", it is a
regionalism; growing up in eastern Ohio I learned the highway was a
"root" and a small stream was a "crick". The region in Ohio where this
was so was apparently fairly small, though.
Of course, the old song calls it "Root 66". Nevertheless, I have learned
to say "route" and "creek" to avoid lifted eyebrows, or even chuckles, on
the part of my auditors.
The power tool used to make grooves and such in wood and metal is almost
universally a "router" (rhymes with "powder"). I spent much of my
engineering career in machine shops and tool and die rooms and I don't
think I ever heard it called a "rooter".
--
Dave Hatunen, Tucson, Baja Arizona, out where the cacti grow
R H Draney
>
>My take on the whole thing:
>
>Mostly Pondian, with BrE invariably -oot and AmE tending toward -out,
>but not 100% consistent. Both are understood.
>
>Someone mentioned the song Route 66, and in conversation I've never
>heard an AmE speaker say "Route 66" with an -out - possibly because of
>the song.
Keep in mind that the song wasn't written by Bobby Trowp....
I see that there are a lot of responses in this thread that I haven't gotten to
yet, but I'll risk repeating a point: not all Americans pronounce "root" with
the same vowel as "boot"....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
J. J. Lodder
In German, just pronounce both
as the name of the war criminal 'Rauter',
and you can't go wrong.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Albin_Rauter>
The French pronunciation (like'routeur') would be snobby,
in German,
Jan
J. J. Lodder
> Am 28.06.2011 15:46, schrieb Urs Beeli:
>
> >
> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
> >
> > You never stop learning.
> >
>
> Leo gives the amusing German word "Handoberfr�smaschine". Talk about
> German compounds...
Dutch does better than that.
Just 'bovenfrees',
Jan
Glenn Knickerbocker
> While Americans seem to prefer that "route" rhyme with "about", it is a
> regionalism; growing up in eastern Ohio I learned the highway was a
> "root" and a small stream was a "crick".
I would have said it was most common to pronounce the noun as "root" and
the verb as "rout" (hence "rout-er" for someone or something that
routes, regardless of whether it's selecting "routs" or "roots").
¬R
Stephen
> I work in IT and have for many years heard people say "router" in two
> different ways. Of course, living in Switzerland, few of those who say it
> are native english speakers so I never thought about which of the two
> versions was correct (or even both).
>
> For me, having learnt French before English, it was always clear that
> "route" is pronounced to rhyme with "root", like its French equivalent.
> Hence, I also pronounced "router" to sound like "rooter".
>
> I have lately listened to a podcast done by some US americans who repeatedly
> pronounced "route" to rhyme with "about" - the second way I have been
> hearing "router" pronounced.
>
> Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both
> with the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
> "about" before.
>
> That got me wondering what the proper pronounciation is.
>
> Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
> version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root" version?
>
> Or is it independent of your position to the pond and influenced by other
> factors?
>
> Or even worse, has the french influence long gone and the only correct
> pronounciation follows the "about" sound and I have been saying it wrong for
> years?
>
> I'm sure there are people here who lead me to the correct route.
>
> /urs
When I first came across the word in an IT context, I was sure it must
be pronounced "rooter", following the example of "route" (sounds like root).
But everyone here says rowter (where "row" rhymes with "now") for the IT
word, and they use the same vowel for route and routing in the IT sense.
But a bus route is still a root here, though in the US it is usually
pronounced "rowt" (with the "now" vowel).
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Mike Lyle
The simplest version of the old hand router is sometimes called an
"old woman's tooth".
--
Mike.
John Varela
<Nob...@NotMyISP.com> wrote:
> I now use the "-out" pronunciation both for the woodworking tool and for
> the networking device, probably because I became acquainted with the
> latter only when I was living in Leftpondia. For "route" I sometimes use
> the "rout" pronunciation and sometimes the "root" pronunciation.
The networking device routes messages. The woodworking tool routs
material. Clearly the latter kind of router should be pronounced
like "outer". I can't recall hearing the electronic device
pronounced any way but "outer". This may be be because the
pronunciation of the woodworking tool was already in people's
vocabulary before the electronic device came along.
When it comes to plotting a route to a destination, I say "root".
When talking about a repeated path followed by, say, a letter
carrier, I may say either "root" or "rout" but most often I say
"rout". That could be because WIWAL the boys who had newspaper
delivery routes had "routs". In air traffic control, airport arrival
and departure routes were pronounced either way, but I think mostly
as "routs". If any pilots are reading this they may want to correct
me.
(Sidelight: the B52s used to, and for all I know may still, practice
flying low-level bomb runs over designated, numbered routes. Because
the aircraft engines are inefficient at low altitude, these routes
were called "Oil Burner Routes" and designated "OB-[number]". Then
came the Arab oil embargo in 1973 and it became impolitic to say
"Oil Burner". The routes were renamed "Olive Branch", preserving the
OB- designators on the charts.)
--
John Varela
Doug
> Urs Beeli wrote:
>
>> I work in IT and have for many years heard people say "router" in two
>> different ways. Of course, living in Switzerland, few of those who say it
>> are native english speakers so I never thought about which of the two
>> versions was correct (or even both).
> I spent 30 years in IT (northeastern U.S.) and not even once heard
> router pronounced as "rooter".
>
> Both variants of route seem about equally popular, though.
That's been my experience. I've been trying to decide if I say root or
rowt for the highway and I'm not sure that I don't vary from one rad to
the next and one day to the next.
upstate NY
David Hatunen
> I see that there are a lot of responses in this thread that I haven't
> gotten to yet, but I'll risk repeating a point: not all Americans
> pronounce "root" with the same vowel as "boot"....r
I certainly don't.
Stan Brown
> I work in IT and have for many years heard people say "router" in two
> different ways. Of course, living in Switzerland, few of those who say it
> are native english speakers so I never thought about which of the two
> versions was correct (or even both).
I'm in the northeastern US. I hear "route" pronounced as "root" or
"rout", but the only way I ever hear "router" pronounced is as
"rout"-er. I have never heard anyone pronounce it "root"-er.
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
annily
As another Aussie, this is also what I say. I think it may be influenced
by the fact that "root" also refers to sexual intercourse here, so it
sounds less "rude" to use the now/cow vowel. Or perhaps it's just that
much of our IT usage is influenced by the US, e.g. "disk" for hard (and
floppy) disks.
> But a bus route is still a root here, though in the US it is usually
> pronounced "rowt" (with the "now" vowel).
>
Ditto.
--
Long-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia,
which probably influences my opinions.
Robert Bannister
> Americans often adhere more closely to the pronunciation of words of
> French origin, than do the British. It therefore baffles me as to why
> they (some, at least) should ever want to pronounce "route" as "rowt".
Examples?
--
Robert Bannister
Peter Moylan
I suspect that prudery had a lot to do with it. The routing devices were
"rooters" when they first appeared on the scene in Australia, but after
a while I heard a few people say "rowter".
It might also be age-related. I say "rooter", and so do many people of
my generation, but the younger ones seem to prefer "rowter".
>
>> But a bus route is still a root here, though in the US it is usually
>> pronounced "rowt" (with the "now" vowel).
Not only the bus routes. If you talk to any of the "rowter" crowd,
they're able to talk about the "roots" stored in the "rowter". I don't
think I've heard an Australian use a pronunciation other than "root" for
a route through a network. (Or any other sort of route.)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Garrett Wollman
Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>I'm in the northeastern US. I hear "route" pronounced as "root" or
>"rout", but the only way I ever hear "router" pronounced is as
>"rout"-er. I have never heard anyone pronounce it "root"-er.
That's because we haven't met.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Stephen
>>> But a bus route is still a root here, though in the US it is usually
>>> >> pronounced "rowt" (with the "now" vowel).
> Not only the bus routes. If you talk to any of the "rowter" crowd,
> they're able to talk about the "roots" stored in the "rowter". I don't
> think I've heard an Australian use a pronunciation other than "root" for
> a route through a network. (Or any other sort of route.)
Now that I think about it, I'm sure you're right for the noun "route".
But I hear the verb pronounced "rout."
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
James Hogg
Maybe Ian is thinking of the pronunciation of the name Maurice.
--
James
R H Draney
>
>On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:21:50 -0700, R H Draney wrote:
>
>> I see that there are a lot of responses in this thread that I haven't
>> gotten to yet, but I'll risk repeating a point: not all Americans
>> pronounce "root" with the same vowel as "boot"....r
>
>I certainly don't.
It's the other "oo" vowel, right?...the one that some people in upperrightpondia
will insist is the same as the one in "boot", but which features in this little
recitation by cornetist Ish Kabibble:
"Mary had a little lamb.
His feet were black as soot--
And everywhere that Mary went,
His sooty foot he put."
J. J. Lodder
Or the town B�ton Rouge?
(not even spelled correctly)
Jan
Ian Jackson
<nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> writes
I don't know about "Maurice". The only American "Maurice" I knew
pronounced his name as per BrE ('morris').
But certainly "baton" would be one of the words which (I'm pretty sure)
AmE pronounces like more like the French, with stress on the second
syllable (even if the do pronounce the 'n'), whereas BrE definitely
stresses the 'bat'. I won't even think about mentioning "herb".
--
Ian
annily
> annily wrote:
>> On 2011-06-29 06:58, Stephen wrote:
>
>>> But everyone here says rowter (where "row" rhymes with "now") for the IT
>>> word, and they use the same vowel for route and routing in the IT sense.
>>
>> As another Aussie, this is also what I say. I think it may be influenced
>> by the fact that "root" also refers to sexual intercourse here, so it
>> sounds less "rude" to use the now/cow vowel. Or perhaps it's just that
>> much of our IT usage is influenced by the US, e.g. "disk" for hard (and
>> floppy) disks.
>
> I suspect that prudery had a lot to do with it. The routing devices were
> "rooters" when they first appeared on the scene in Australia, but after
> a while I heard a few people say "rowter".
>
> It might also be age-related. I say "rooter", and so do many people of
> my generation, but the younger ones seem to prefer "rowter".
>>
Perhaps I've been influenced by the younger generation :)
Nick Spalding
on Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:31:10 -0400:
It depends on the angle of view.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Urs Beeli
> On 2011-06-28, Urs Beeli wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:18:14 +0100 Nick Spalding wrote:
>
> >> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
> >> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
> >
> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>
> http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00917517000-1
>
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Router_%28woodworking%29
Excellent, thanks. I think I disposed of one of these when I cleaned up my
dad's overly full workshop after he passed away. I didn't know what it was
called back then.
Thanks for doing my research for me :)
Cheers
/urs
--
Urs Beeli, Switzerland, AusE
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine." R.C. Gallagher
Urs Beeli
> Am 28.06.2011 15:46, schrieb Urs Beeli:
>
> >
> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
> >
> > You never stop learning.
>
> German compounds...
Are you surprised I needed a picture to understand what it was? ;-)
musika
Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> typed:
>
> The simplest version of the old hand router is sometimes called an
> "old woman's tooth".
Was her name Juanita?
--
Ray
UK
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
<applause>
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
J. J. Lodder
Or lingerie?
Why not admit that the American pronunciation of French words
is so different from the original that real Frenchmen
(who have not learned to speak English)
have great difficulty understanding them.
(unless the Americans have learned some French)
When asking about the way to the Notre Dame for example,
Jan
Urs Beeli
> > be pronounced "rooter", following the example of "route" (sounds like
> > root).
> >
> > But everyone here says rowter (where "row" rhymes with "now") for the IT
> > word, and they use the same vowel for route and routing in the IT sense.
>
> As another Aussie, this is also what I say.
I see, that is not what I'd have expected, I would have assumed you'd follow
BrE usage (though my time spent down under predated the ubiquitous use of
IT routers outside of business.
> I think it may be influenced by the fact that "root" also refers to
> sexual intercourse here
Is that usage limited to 'strine?
> so it sounds less "rude" to use the now/cow vowel. Or perhaps it's just
> that much of our IT usage is influenced by the US, e.g. "disk" for hard
> (and floppy) disks.
>
> > But a bus route is still a root here, though in the US it is usually
> > pronounced "rowt" (with the "now" vowel).
Cheers
Adam Funk
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:43:57 +0200 Joachim Pense wrote:
>> Am 28.06.2011 15:46, schrieb Urs Beeli:
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
>> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
>> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>> >
>> > You never stop learning.
>>
>> Leo gives the amusing German word "Handoberfräsmaschine". Talk about
>> German compounds...
>
> Are you surprised I needed a picture to understand what it was? ;-)
I also came across the shorter term "Oberfräse" --- does "fräse" mean
anything else in German or is it just borrowed from the French
"fraise"?
--
No sport is less organized than Calvinball!
Adam Funk
> In message <1k3m9w2.g0q...@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, J. J. Lodder
><nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> writes
>>James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe Ian is thinking of the pronunciation of the name Maurice.
>>
>>Or the town Bâton Rouge?
>>(not even spelled correctly)
>>
> Actually, I wasn't thinking of either!
>
> I don't know about "Maurice". The only American "Maurice" I knew
> pronounced his name as per BrE ('morris').
I only know one English "Maurice", and AFAICT he pronounces it the
same as "Morris".
I've never met an American "Maurice", but ISTR the one in _Northern
Exposure_ was pronounced the same as in Steve Miller's song "The
Joker".
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Adam Funk
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:36:50 +0100 Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2011-06-28, Urs Beeli wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:18:14 +0100 Nick Spalding wrote:
>>
>> >> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
>> >> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
>> >
>> > Thanks. And I had never heard about the wood working tool, and even looking
>> > up the German translation for it I think I'll have to search for some
>> > pictures to really understand what it is :-)
>>
>> http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00917517000-1
>>
>> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Router_%28woodworking%29
>
> Excellent, thanks. I think I disposed of one of these when I cleaned up my
> dad's overly full workshop after he passed away. I didn't know what it was
> called back then.
>
> Thanks for doing my research for me :)
No problem!
--
Le beau est aussi utile que l'utile. [Victor Hugo]
annily
We usually do, but there is a fair bit of US influence in Australia
these days, especially among the younger generations.
>> I think it may be influenced by the fact that "root" also refers to
>> sexual intercourse here
>
> Is that usage limited to 'strine?
>
I'm not sure, but I think it probably is (or perhaps New Zealand as well).
Ian Jackson
--
Ian
John Dunlop
> It's the other "oo" vowel, right?...the one that some people in
> upperrightpondia will insist is the same as the one in "boot",
John Hannah says it was a coincidence the Co-op chose him to say their
slogan, "Good with food":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeCh68XRFoo
> but which features in this little recitation by cornetist Ish Kabibble:
>
> "Mary had a little lamb.
> His feet were black as soot--
> And everywhere that Mary went,
> His sooty foot he put."
In northrightpondia - just to be contrary - "foot" and "put" often have
the KIT vowel...
Which, moving swiftly on, leads to the sentence, "Fit fit fits fit fit?".
--
John
tony cooper
wrote:
>On 2011-06-29, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> In message <1k3m9w2.g0q...@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, J. J. Lodder
>><nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> writes
>>>James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Maybe Ian is thinking of the pronunciation of the name Maurice.
>>>
>>>Or the town B�ton Rouge?
>>>(not even spelled correctly)
>>>
>> Actually, I wasn't thinking of either!
>>
>> I don't know about "Maurice". The only American "Maurice" I knew
>> pronounced his name as per BrE ('morris').
>
>I only know one English "Maurice", and AFAICT he pronounces it the
>same as "Morris".
>
>I've never met an American "Maurice", but ISTR the one in _Northern
>Exposure_ was pronounced the same as in Steve Miller's song "The
>Joker".
My aunt's second marriage was to a Maurice. He pronounced it
"more-eese" with no emphasis on either part but a slight heaviness on
the "more". No more than anyone would give on a two-sound-group first
name.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Adam Funk
> (Sidelight: the B52s used to, and for all I know may still, practice
> flying low-level bomb runs over designated, numbered routes. Because
> the aircraft engines are inefficient at low altitude, these routes
> were called "Oil Burner Routes" and designated "OB-[number]". Then
> came the Arab oil embargo in 1973 and it became impolitic to say
> "Oil Burner". The routes were renamed "Olive Branch", preserving the
> OB- designators on the charts.)
Because bombing runs are so peaceful! (Especially if they leave good
patterns in the aerial photos?)
--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.
Robert Bannister
I find the many meanings of "Fräse" quite scary - I don't even know what
a "trephine" is in English, but it sounds nasty.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Aha! That is exactly what I was expecting. This is not "more like
French" at all because French does not have stressed syllables. So your
"ballAY" for "ballet" is not more French in any way.
, whereas BrE definitely
> stresses the 'bat'. I won't even think about mentioning "herb".
--
Robert Bannister
R H Draney
>
>On 29/06/11 7:22 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> anything else in German or is it just borrowed from the French
>> "fraise"?
>
At the risk of starting a round of govende, isn't that the operation where you
bore a hole in your skull to let some of the air out?...r
tony cooper
wrote:
Close. That's the instrument used for making holes in the skull.
Mark Brader
> > In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
> > "about" it is a wood-working tool.
> Does Canadian "route" rhyme with Canadian "about"? Hmm...
My experience is that the pronunciation of route like "rout" pretty
much stops at the border -- in Canada both the noun and verb sound
like "root". *However*, despite this, many people pronounce the
network device the other way, the same as the woodworking device
(which, as noted, derives its name from the verb "rout"). I'm one
of those who don't do that.
--
Mark Brader "The routes 'London' and 'not London' are
Toronto not necessarily mutually exclusive."
m...@vex.net --Tim Stevens for ATOC, UK
My text in this article is in the public domain.
J. J. Lodder
The ungratefulnes of those Frenchies is really astounding.
After all the trouble Americans took
to properly Disneyfy it for then,
<http://www.chansons-disney.com/47.html>
to allow them to learn the correct pronunciation,
what do they do?
They dub it in that awful dialect of theirs,
Jan
Urs Beeli
Yes, Fr�se is the general term for a tool to work wood or metal. My English
doesn't cover tools but Leo suggests "mortiser" or "milling cutter" and
googling for some pictures of those suggest that these two should do.
Anyone with experience in wood and metal working in both English and German
settings will certainly be able to correct me :)
Adam Funk
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>>On 29/06/11 7:22 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>
>>> I also came across the shorter term "Oberfräse" --- does "fräse" mean
>>> anything else in German or is it just borrowed from the French
>>> "fraise"?
>>
>>I find the many meanings of "Fräse" quite scary - I don't even know what
>>a "trephine" is in English, but it sounds nasty.
>
> At the risk of starting a round of govende, isn't that the operation where you
> bore a hole in your skull to let some of the air out?...r
The operation itself is "trepanation" or "trepanning". I can see the
resemblance with using a router, although I suspect it would void the
warranty.
--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele]
rwalker
wrote:
>years?
>
>I'm sure there are people here who lead me to the correct route.
>
>Cheers
>/urs
In the U.S., you will hear route pronounced to rhyme with either
"root" or "about." Router, at least in my experience, always rhymes
with "shouter" in U.S. English, though I am sure there are probably
exceptions.
Rob
(U.S. English)
Phil C.
> Nick Spalding:
>>> In BrE the network device is pronounced as "rooter"; if pronounced as in
>>> "about" it is a wood-working tool.
>
> Phil C.:
>> Does Canadian "route" rhyme with Canadian "about"? Hmm...
>
> My experience is that the pronunciation of route like "rout" pretty
> much stops at the border -- in Canada both the noun and verb sound
> like "root". *However*, despite this, many people pronounce the
> network device the other way, the same as the woodworking device
> (which, as noted, derives its name from the verb "rout"). I'm one
> of those who don't do that.
What about the Canadian "about" - does that change at the border? I
watched a history documentary this morning and noticed the pronunciation
of "about" by the main academic featured. "Must be Canadian", I thought
- and he was. I first noticed it with Canadian relatives in the 1960s.
It sounded more like "a boat" to my English English ear but it seems to
be parodied as "a boot" by US comedians. I assume the origin is Scottish(?)
--
Phil C.
David Hatunen
> But certainly "baton" would be one of the words which (I'm pretty sure)
> AmE pronounces like more like the French, with stress on the second
> syllable (even if the do pronounce the 'n'), whereas BrE definitely
> stresses the 'bat'. I won't even think about mentioning "herb".
The only pronunciation I've ever heard for the capital city of Louisiana
puts the emphasis on the first syllable, even though the device passed on
by the runners in a relay race puts the emphasis on the second syllable.
The city is "BATin' rooge".
Having grown up in Ohio, where the local airport is at Vyenna (Vienna),
Piqua is something like "Pickaway", Lima is "Lyma", Mantua is "Mantaway",
and a nearby reservoir is at Berlin ("BURRlin") etc, I don't find this
vary odd.
--
Dave Hatunen, Tucson, Baja Arizona, out where the cacti grow
David Hatunen
> What about the Canadian "about" - does that change at the border? I
> watched a history documentary this morning and noticed the pronunciation
> of "about" by the main academic featured. "Must be Canadian", I thought
> - and he was. I first noticed it with Canadian relatives in the 1960s.
> It sounded more like "a boat" to my English English ear but it seems to
> be parodied as "a boot" by US comedians. I assume the origin is
> Scottish(?)
The character of that Canadian vowel changes by Canadian region. My own
experience is that Ontarians and Prairie Canadians have a distinctive
Canadian "boot" while BCers don't, eh?
Dr Peter Young
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:43:19 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> But certainly "baton" would be one of the words which (I'm pretty sure)
>> AmE pronounces like more like the French, with stress on the second
>> syllable (even if the do pronounce the 'n'), whereas BrE definitely
>> stresses the 'bat'. I won't even think about mentioning "herb".
> The only pronunciation I've ever heard for the capital city of Louisiana
> puts the emphasis on the first syllable, even though the device passed on
> by the runners in a relay race puts the emphasis on the second syllable.
> The city is "BATin' rooge".
In BrE the relay race thingy has its accent on the first syllable.
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Ian Jackson
<dhat...@cox.net> writes
in 'neutral' USA English. The vowel sound of "about" is one of the
give-aways. It sounds rather like a diphthong ('a bou-ut'), with the
'bou' part spoken with a somewhat wider-than-normal mouth. It's maybe a
bit like the vowels of the UK Geordie dialect (noted for using two
vowels where one will do) - but I suspect it owes its origins to the
Scots.
--
Ian
MC
"Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
> It sounded more like "a boat" to my English English ear but it seems to
> be parodied as "a boot" by US comedians. I assume the origin is Scottish(?)
I agree with this 100%. Canadians do indeed say "a boat," and not "a
boot."
But then there *many* Americans who think "boutique" is pronounced
"boateek."
And don't get me started on "croissant" French words get pretty much
mangled in a lot of AmE pronunciations.
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
Garrett Wollman
Yes and no. "Canadian raising", as the name suggests, is prevalent in
Canada, but I've also heard it as a hypercorrection from New Yorkers.
The actual realization changes from east to west in Canada: in
Newfoundland it can be monophthongized as [u], but in central
Canada it's closer to [@u][1].
-GAWollman
[1] I'm a little bit uncertain as to how to transcribe the second
vowel; it's not distinct enough for me to decide between [u] and [U].
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Jerry Friedman
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:11:31 +0000, Urs Beeli wrote:
> > Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both with
> > the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
> > "about" before.
>
> > That got me wondering what the proper pronounciation is.
>
> > Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
> > version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root"
> > version?
>
> regionalism; growing up in eastern Ohio I learned the highway was a
> "root" and a small stream was a "crick".
And judging from what you said about "hoot", did you learn that the
"root" of a plant rhymed with "foot"?
> The region in Ohio where this
> was so was apparently fairly small, though.
...
Around Cleveland, I'd have expected the few people who said "crick" to
be among the many who said "rout".
--
Jerry Friedman
David Hatunen
> In article <YeSdnVMx1tIhNZHT...@bt.com>,
> "Phil C." <phil...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>
>> It sounded more like "a boat" to my English English ear but it seems to
>> be parodied as "a boot" by US comedians. I assume the origin is
>> Scottish(?)
>
> I agree with this 100%. Canadians do indeed say "a boat," and not "a
> boot."
>
> But then there *many* Americans who think "boutique" is pronounced
> "boateek."
We're getting into the same old thing" when does an adopted foreign word
become an English word, or an American word? If a lot of Americans say
"boateek", then that is one of the variant pronunciations thereof.
> And don't get me started on "croissant" French words get pretty much
> mangled in a lot of AmE pronunciations.
It's not mangled for the simple reason that when used by Americans it's
not a French word.
Are the French mangling "High Life" because they say "heeg leaf"?
David Hatunen
> On Jun 28, 12:26 pm, David Hatunen <dhatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:11:31 +0000, Urs Beeli wrote:
>> > Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both
>> > with the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said
>> > like "about" before.
>>
>> > That got me wondering what the proper pronounciation is.
>>
>> > Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
>> > version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root"
>> > version?
>>
>> While Americans seem to prefer that "route" rhyme with "about", it is a
>> regionalism; growing up in eastern Ohio I learned the highway was a
>> "root" and a small stream was a "crick".
>
> And judging from what you said about "hoot", did you learn that the
> "root" of a plant rhymed with "foot"?
Um. Where did I use the word "hoot"?
And no, "root" doesn't rhyme with "foot". Not in my part of Ohio, anyway.
>> The region in Ohio where this
>> was so was apparently fairly small, though.
> ...
>
> Around Cleveland, I'd have expected the few people who said "crick" to
> be among the many who said "rout".
Cleveland had a different dialect from Warren-Youngstown.
Peter Moylan
> Having grown up in Ohio, where the local airport is at Vyenna (Vienna),
> Piqua is something like "Pickaway", Lima is "Lyma", Mantua is "Mantaway",
> and a nearby reservoir is at Berlin ("BURRlin") etc, I don't find this
> vary odd.
>
That reminds me of a regionalism of Newcastle (Australia). Our most
annoying lawn weed is the bindii, which has sharp prickly seeds with a
talent for sticking into bare feet. Nearly everyone here calls them
"bindy-eyes".
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Steve Hayes
>I work in IT and have for many years heard people say "router" in two
>different ways. Of course, living in Switzerland, few of those who say it
>are native english speakers so I never thought about which of the two
>versions was correct (or even both).
>
>For me, having learnt French before English, it was always clear that
>"route" is pronounced to rhyme with "root", like its French equivalent.
>Hence, I also pronounced "router" to sound like "rooter".
>
>I have lately listened to a podcast done by some US americans who repeatedly
>pronounced "route" to rhyme with "about" - the second way I have been
>hearing "router" pronounced.
>
>Even thouhg I was familiar to hearing "router" being pronounce both
>with the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
>"about" before.
The "about" pronuniciation is almost always used for the woodworking tool.
The "root" pronunciation is usually used for the networking device, except in
some parts of the USA. I leave it to denizens of that country to say which
parts.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
>
>Computer Lingo Sidebar
>
>BrE "disc" = AmE "disk"
>
>However, there's some crossover on both directions.
>
>I've seen "hard disk" in BrE articles, and as far as I know "compact
>disc" is always "disc" on both sides of the pond.
"disk" is generally used for magnetic storage devices, while "disc" is used
for optical ones.
In computer lingo, that is.
tony cooper
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>The "about" pronuniciation is almost always used for the woodworking tool.
>
>The "root" pronunciation is usually used for the networking device, except in
>some parts of the USA. I leave it to denizens of that country to say which
>parts.
Parts? You think that the "root" pronunciation is prevalent in some
states, or cities, or counties? I think what you'd find is that some
people use one or the other, and their next-door neighbor might use
the other one.
Dominic Bojarski
> On 28/06/11 10:24 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
> > Americans often adhere more closely to the pronunciation of words of
> > French origin, than do the British. It therefore baffles me as to why
> > they (some, at least) should ever want to pronounce "route" as "rowt".
>
> Examples?
> Robert Bannister
Baton, garage, filet, balet, lieutenant... quite a few, actually.
Generally American pronunciation of loan words from French is closer
to the original than the British pronunciation.
Dominic
Dr Nick
In words like "ballet", both groups, IME, pronounce it "ballay". The
difference is that it gets a very distinctive "foreign" stress in
American use that it doesn't in British: "ball..wait for it..wait for
it..AYYYYY!"
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Jared
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:11:31 +0000, Urs Beeli wrote:
>
>> the "root" and "about" bases, I never heard "route" being said like
>> "about" before.
>>
>>
>> Is this a pondian difference with leftpondians preferring the "about"
>> version and rightpondians (and hence Aussies) preferring the "root"
>> version?
>
> While Americans seem to prefer that "route" rhyme with "about", it is a
> regionalism; growing up in eastern Ohio I learned the highway was a
> was so was apparently fairly small, though.
I'm from upstate New York, and when talking about roads, I would say
either rowt or root; I really have no preference. Well, maybe I somewhat
prefer "root". But it's hard for me to decide which sounds better, and I
think I hear both frequently.
But when talking about the network device or the woodworking device, I
would always say "rowter" and I can't recall hearing "rooter".
--
Jared
Adam Funk
> But then there *many* Americans who think "boutique" is pronounced
> "boateek."
Maybe from confusion with "bodega". See also "lingerie" and "chaise
lounge".
> And don't get me started on "croissant" French words get pretty much
> mangled in a lot of AmE pronunciations.
Just call it a "crescent" already!
--
Mathematiker sind wie Franzosen: Was man ihnen auch sagt, übersetzen
sie in ihre eigene Sprache, so daß unverzüglich etwas völlig anderes
daraus wird. [Goethe]
Peter Moylan
When I hear Americans saying those words, I hear a definite
second-syllable stress. That makes the words very different from the
corresponding French words.
Both the BrE and AmE pronunciations of "lieutenant" are so different
from the French pronunciation that a French-speaking person who knows no
English would probably not even guess what the word was supposed to be.
All of the vowels are different, and the silent "t" isn't silent. Most
noticeably, both BrE and AmE use an /E/ as the middle syllable.
Peter Brooks
>
>
> I agree with this 100%. Canadians do indeed say "a boat," and not "a
> boot."
>
that the train made was best described as 'a boot, a boot'.
Peter Brooks
>
> At the risk of starting a round of govende, isn't that the operation where you
> bore a hole in your skull to let some of the air out?...r
>
R H Draney
One of my high-school classmates came from Baltimore...he once reported a group
of us for "flouting bouts" in the chemistry lab sinks....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
R H Draney
>
>On Jun 30, 4:32=A0am, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> At the risk of starting a round of govende, isn't that the operation wher=
>e you
>> bore a hole in your skull to let some of the air out?...r
>>
>If air is what you keep on your skull, perhaps.
If you've got too much of it in there, it just makes sense to let some of it
out....
Now, me, I prefer to keep my air on the g-string....r
John Dunlop
> [R H Draney:]
>
>> At the risk of starting a round of govende, isn't that the operation
>> where you bore a hole in your skull to let some of the air out?...r
>
> If air is what you keep on your skull, perhaps.
Keepin' the 'air on me skull's a losin' battle.
--
John
Jerry Friedman
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1k3m9w2.g0qruc1iugz...@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, J. J. Lodder
> <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> writes
>
> >James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> > On 28/06/11 10:24 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
> >> >> Americans often adhere more closely to the pronunciation of words of
> >> >> French origin, than do the British. It therefore baffles me as to why
> >> >> they (some, at least) should ever want to pronounce "route" as "rowt".
>
> >> > Examples?
>
>
> >Or the town Bâton Rouge?
> >(not even spelled correctly)
>
> Actually, I wasn't thinking of either!
>
> I don't know about "Maurice". The only American "Maurice" I knew
> pronounced his name as per BrE ('morris').
...
I'd expect it to have an accent on the second syllable, /mOr'is/.
> I won't even think about mentioning "herb".
Seems like a good example to me. "Valet" is another one, I believe.
--
Jerry Friedman
Garrett Wollman
Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>Dominic Bojarski wrote:
>> Baton, garage, filet, balet, lieutenant... quite a few, actually.
>> Generally American pronunciation of loan words from French is closer
>> to the original than the British pronunciation.
>
>When I hear Americans saying those words, I hear a definite
>second-syllable stress. That makes the words very different from the
>corresponding French words.
Most Americans couldn't pronounce a French nasal vowel if their life
depended on it. This includes most people in high-school and college
French classes. I do not understand why people find this so
difficult, but they do. They have a slightly easier time with [y]
since it's so common. (And many never understand the difference
between informal and polite usage in the second person.)
-GAWollman
John Varela
> To my ear, some Canadians do seem to have an accent which you don't hear
> in 'neutral' USA English. The vowel sound of "about" is one of the
> give-aways. It sounds rather like a diphthong ('a bou-ut'), with the
> 'bou' part spoken with a somewhat wider-than-normal mouth. It's maybe a
> bit like the vowels of the UK Geordie dialect (noted for using two
> vowels where one will do) - but I suspect it owes its origins to the Scots.
I've heard that pronunciation from some people from Southside Virginia.
I can't pinpoint the location closer than that.
John Varela
> And don't get me started on "croissant" French words get pretty much
> mangled in a lot of AmE pronunciation
Both food and usage in the same thread.
Some 45 years ago I first heard the word "croissant". Not speaking
French I had no idea what one of those was. When I finally saw one, I
realized they were simply what we, in my birthplace, the "Crescent City"
of New Orleans, had always called "crescent rolls".
John Varela
> But certainly "baton" would be one of the words which (I'm pretty sure)
> AmE pronounces like more like the French, with stress on the second
> syllable (even if the do pronounce the 'n'), whereas BrE definitely
> stresses the 'bat'.
In Louisiana, Baton Rouge is pronounced like "batten" with the stress on
the first syllable.
John Varela
> David Hatunen wrote:
>
>> Having grown up in Ohio, where the local airport is at Vyenna (Vienna),
>> Piqua is something like "Pickaway", Lima is "Lyma", Mantua is "Mantaway",
>> and a nearby reservoir is at Berlin ("BURRlin") etc, I don't find this
>> vary odd.
>>
> That reminds me of a regionalism of Newcastle (Australia). Our most
> annoying lawn weed is the bindii, which has sharp prickly seeds with a
> talent for sticking into bare feet. Nearly everyone here calls them
> "bindy-eyes".
Thirty-something years ago when the American Standard Code for
Information Interchange was being introduced I heard someone try to
pronounce ASCII as "ask two".
R H Draney
Bald man: "Grass don't grow on a busy street, you know."
Other man: "Or on a concrete sidewalk."
R H Draney
>
>On Jun 29, 2:43=A0am, Ian Jackson
>>
>> I don't know about "Maurice". The only American "Maurice" I knew
>> pronounced his name as per BrE ('morris').
>...
>
>I'd expect it to have an accent on the second syllable, /mOr'is/.
This came up a while back when I started a game on an eBay discussion
board...the point of the game had to do with actors on television shows playing
characters with the same first names as themselves (adding the condition that
they couldn't just be playing themselves, like Jerry Seinfeld on his
show)...examples were Andy Griffith (on his eponymous series), almost the entire
cast of "The Mothers-In-Law", and Tony Danza (on at least three different
sitcoms)...I suggested Maurice Evans on "Bewitched", and some people questioned
whether he truly qualified....
Turns out there were two objections: one, that we never knew the surname of his
character, and two, that some people thought that the actor and the warlock used
"mo-REESE" and "MOW-riss" (either respectively or the other way round) so the
given name wasn't really the same after all....r