Bienvenido a New Mexico

[Jerry Friedman]

I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.

(It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
>
> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)

I get the equivalent with French text being read.

Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
eh? Do I get a macaron with that?

--
We say, 'If any lady or gentleman shall buy this article _____ shall
have it for five dollars.' The blank may be filled with he, she, it,
or they; or in any other manner; and yet the form of the expression
will be too vulgar to be uttered. -- Wkly Jrnl of Commerce (1839)

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 6:28:34 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:

> > I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
> >
> > (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)

> I get the equivalent with French text being read.

And here I thought we invented it.

> Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
> eh? Do I get a macaron with that?

They're from the President of the National Assembly of Quebec?

And Canadians can't call anything macaroni either.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

On 25-Aug-22 13:28, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:
>
>> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
>>
>> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)
>
> I get the equivalent with French text being read.
>
> Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
> eh? Do I get a macaron with that?
>

I had assumed this only happened in the US, but I then read:

"Emergency Alerts is a new service from the UK government. It’s expected
to launch in autumn 2022.

Emergency alerts will warn you if there’s a danger to life nearby.

In an emergency, your phone or tablet will receive an alert with advice
about how to stay safe."

I noted that:
"It’s expected to launch in autumn 2022"

1. The UK government has form when it comes to delivering IT developments.
2. They will simply dump the work onto the networks, so it might happen
on time.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter T. Daniels]

What's the stuff we get 'n' cheese? Pasta poutine?

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 12:50:59 PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 25-Aug-22 13:28, Quinn C wrote:
> > * Jerry Friedman:
> >
> >> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
> >>
> >> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)
> >
> > I get the equivalent with French text being read.
> >
> > Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
> > eh? Do I get a macaron with that?
> >
> I had assumed this only happened in the US, but I then read:
>
> "Emergency Alerts is a new service from the UK government. It’s expected
> to launch in autumn 2022.
>
> Emergency alerts will warn you if there’s a danger to life nearby.
>
> In an emergency, your phone or tablet will receive an alert with advice
> about how to stay safe."

Meta-warning: You can look forward to getting a warning in Welsh read by
a Saes computer, or vice-versa.

Incidentally, ours in New Mexico tell us about abducted children as well as
fires and floods.

> I noted that:
> "It’s expected to launch in autumn 2022"
>
> 1. The UK government has form when it comes to delivering IT developments.
> 2. They will simply dump the work onto the networks, so it might happen
> on time.

Somehow I liked "has form" better than I would have liked what I think is the
American equivalent, "has a record".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 14:00:44 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 12:50:59 PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 25-Aug-22 13:28, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Jerry Friedman:
>> >
>> >> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
>> >>
>> >> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)
>> >
>> > I get the equivalent with French text being read.
>> >
>> > Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
>> > eh? Do I get a macaron with that?
>> >
>> I had assumed this only happened in the US, but I then read:
>>
>> "Emergency Alerts is a new service from the UK government. It’s expected
>> to launch in autumn 2022.
>>
>> Emergency alerts will warn you if there’s a danger to life nearby.
>>
>> In an emergency, your phone or tablet will receive an alert with advice
>> about how to stay safe."
>
>Meta-warning: You can look forward to getting a warning in Welsh read by
>a Saes computer, or vice-versa.
>
>Incidentally, ours in New Mexico tell us about abducted children as well as
>fires and floods.

If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.

The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 4:28:14 PM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 14:00:44 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 12:50:59 PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> On 25-Aug-22 13:28, Quinn C wrote:
> >> > * Jerry Friedman:
> >> >
> >> >> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
> >> >>
> >> >> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)
> >> >
> >> > I get the equivalent with French text being read.
> >> >
> >> > Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from Canada,
> >> > eh? Do I get a macaron with that?
> >> >
> >> I had assumed this only happened in the US, but I then read:
> >>
> >> "Emergency Alerts is a new service from the UK government. It’s expected
> >> to launch in autumn 2022.
> >>
> >> Emergency alerts will warn you if there’s a danger to life nearby.
> >>
> >> In an emergency, your phone or tablet will receive an alert with advice
> >> about how to stay safe."
> >
> >Meta-warning: You can look forward to getting a warning in Welsh read by
> >a Saes computer, or vice-versa.
> >
> >Incidentally, ours in New Mexico tell us about abducted children as well as
> >fires and floods.

> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
> regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
> Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.

Actually, Sam didn't say whether the upcoming emergency alerts in the UK
will just be texts. As Quinn and I said, the ones in our area are read by text-
to-speech software. Apparently that may happen in Britain too.

https://www.gov.uk/alerts/when-you-get-an-alert

Let's hope they get the right language.

Incidentally, when I got that Spanish-in-English one yesterday, I was in my
lab, where my phone says "No service" and I normally get no service. I
was surprised.

> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.

As the ones for abducted children do, I'll bet.

I haven't heard a Silver Alert here, but of course our number of old people
per square mile is much, much less than Florida's.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

I assume the reader language is determined by the phone's settings. I've
found the switch to turn the reading aloud off, by the way.

They are still announced by a siren-like notification tone that should
alert me enough. It curiously resembles the special ringtone I've set
for my ex's number.

>> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
>> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
>
> As the ones for abducted children do, I'll bet.
>
> I haven't heard a Silver Alert here, but of course our number of old people
> per square mile is much, much less than Florida's.

It's mostly abducted children here, and I've turned that category off,
too.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Peter Moylan]

The Australian one described at
https://www.emergencyalert.gov.au/
has been used for a few years to evacuate people when a bushfire is
coming. In our bad fires of a couple of years ago, it performed poorly
when the fires wrecked the phone infrastructure.

I've never received an alert - I don't live in a bad fire or flood area
- so I don't know what they sound like.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[occam]

On 25/08/2022 04:02, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
>
> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)
>

No text-to-speech here, but the Luxembourg 'LU-ALERT' system was
recently tested to all registered mobile phones, in three languages:

It simply said "LU-ALERT / ALERTE TEST/ NO ACTION REQUIRED / AUCUNE
ACTION REQUISE / KEINE HANDLUNG ERFORDERLICH "

They got the shouty capitalization bit right.

Our main concern here is an ageing French nuclear power plant, built on
the French/Lux border. 'Old leaky' (Cattenom) is a typically badly
maintained French facility. It was positioned so as to minimise adverse
effects on France, and to spite Luxembourg for not allowing it to be
built on Lux soil in the first place. The city of Luxembourg is
down-wind from the plant.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

If I remember I'll ask my daughter if she ever inspected it. She does
other things now but for a while she was studying the state of concrete
in power stations.


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[CDB]

On 8/25/2022 4:26 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Jerry Friedman:

>>>> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking
>>>> speech synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't
>>>> good. (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico
>>>> like best.)
>>> I get the equivalent with French text being read.

>> And here I thought we invented it.

>>> Plus, they're called Presidential Alerts, so they can't be from
>>> Canada, eh? Do I get a macaron with that?

>> They're from the President of the National Assembly of Quebec?

>> And Canadians can't call anything macaroni either.

> What's the stuff we get 'n' cheese? Pasta poutine?

"Kraft Dinner", heavily promoted to children and desperate parents as "KD".

[CDB]

On 8/25/2022 6:42 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:

Those are "Amber alerts" here (from the US, WP tells me), but I think
they were named after a missing child, not for the traffic-light.

Yes: poor little Amber Rene Hagerman, floruit ante 1966. In this
country it doesn't stand for "America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency
Response", though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_alert

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:24:35 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:

> > I haven't heard a Silver Alert here, but of course our number of old people
> > per square mile is much, much less than Florida's.
>
> It's mostly abducted children here, and I've turned that category off,
> too.

We call those "Amber Alerts," named for the first girl who got a lot
of publicity for being abducted.

The number of Amber Alerts has diminished considerably since John
Walsh's TV show hyping run-of-the-mill cases of custody fights as
examples of "child abductions."

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:53:40 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> I've never received an alert - I don't live in a bad fire or flood area
> - so I don't know what they sound like.

Twice I've gotten robo-calls from the water company telling me
there had been a water main break and I should boil any water
to be used for drinking or cooking, and probably two thereafter
reporting progress on repairs, and then that it was safe to drink
the water again.

Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
state!) himself did one to let me know that, due to emergency
repairs on a sewer pipe that was about to collapse, Route 440,
a major commercial thoroughfare along the Hackensack River,
would be closed for a few blocks in both directions for a short
time. (He hasn't called back yet to say the inconvenience has
been resolved. It must be pretty annoying for the people in
the adjacent neighborhoods, which include some recent riverfront
condo developments).

[Peter T. Daniels]

Ah. Garrison Keillor occasionally mentioned that, IIRC, or
maybe it was Michael Feldman (out of Madison/Milwaukee).
Maybe it's creeping across the border.

[Quinn C]

* CDB:

I think we had this before, but I'd never call my home-made mac'n'cheese
that and put it on a par with the vile prepackaged stuff. I haven't
heard other people do it, and obviously, restaurants don't do that,
either. So to me, this is not the generic name of the dish. Maybe it's
different in the RoC*.

The only kind of "Kraft dinner" that took off in Germany was spaghetti
with tomato sauce, under the name of "Miracoli".
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir%C3%A1coli#/media/Datei:Miracoli-1.jpg>

____
* Rest of Canada - only used in Quebec?

[Jerry Friedman]

Quinn was being humorously obscure, so I was too. Canadians can't
call anything macaroni because Yankee Doodle has the copyright.

--
Jerry Friedman

[CDB]

On 8/26/2022 9:05 AM, Quinn C wrote:
> CDB:

Probably more often used there, in deference to the separartists.

I decided not to correct the typo.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 25-Aug-22 23:28, Tony Cooper wrote:

> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
> regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
> Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.
>
> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
>

At the moment, the nearest thing we have to those "Silver Alerts" is the
sound of a helicopter loitering overhead for an extended period.

Of course, it might also turn out for a different reason.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

I worked, for a while, in a department which carried out checks on UK
reactor containment vessels, looking for cracks and other flaws.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>state!)

Re this:
https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369

Tomorrow also on my site.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

[Tony Cooper]

We receive a text message with Alerts, and the Interstates have signs
every few miles with the Alert in lights.

When my wife and I are driving, and see a "Silver Alert", we always
check to see if it's our car's description.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:06:18 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >state!)
> Re this:
> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>
> Tomorrow also on my site.

On a completely unrelated subject, I saw a beaten-up old pickup truck
today with a bumper sticker that said "Viva Interlingua!"

--
Jerry Friedman

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 19:46:05 +0100

It was a cliff fall the other fortnight.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
wrote:

>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>>state!)

A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
Hempstead NY, has to say.
>
>Re this:
>https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>
Even more confusing. I see a number of familiar letters, but no
familiar words.

[J. J. Lodder]

What is 'typically' about it?
All of the French nuclear power industry is poorly maintained,
for the simple reason that EDF is effectively bankrupt.
Only endless financing by the state is keeping it up.
(they had to find 10 billion recently to renationalise EDF)

And it is going from bad to worse:
Not being able to generate enough power of their own
they have to buy it from abroad, at today's ruinous gas price.
Fortunately for them they also built thousands of 'eoliennes',
which produce electricity at next to zero marginal cost,

Jan

Excercise: look at the Belgian/French border.
Guess where the nuclear power plants are.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400
Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> ><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >
> >>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >>state!)
>
> A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
> wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
> Hempstead NY, has to say.
> >

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York
"The beach itself receives approximately six million visitors per year."

Gosh.

> >Re this:
> >https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
> >
> Even more confusing. I see a number of familiar letters, but no
> familiar words.
>

Twitter is for Twits. (c) (TM) maybe.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89olienne_Boll%C3%A9e

>
> Excercise: look at the Belgian/French border.

Exercise

> Guess where the nuclear power plants are.
>

It seems it's Standard to stick things out on the edge.
To be fair there's only 3 which look as if the locations are designed to
provoke:

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/Nuclear_power_plants_map_France.png


Chooz though does look like it's a political snub.

[Peter T. Daniels]

As was I. Has it been too long sine we did poutine?

> Canadians can't
> call anything macaroni because Yankee Doodle has the copyright.

Thanks to Noah Webster.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:06:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> >Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >state!)
>
> Re this:
> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369

What do a bunch of tweets in Dutch (that include Peter Stuyrvesant's
portrait) have to do with a sewer emergency in Jersey City?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:48:12 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> wrote:
> >Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> ><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> >>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >>state!)
>
> A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
> wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
> Hempstead NY, has to say.

Where the fucking hell did that come from, cretin?

> >Re this:
> >https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>
> Even more confusing. I see a number of familiar letters, but no
> familiar words.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And thorough idiocy

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:49:46 PM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> > Our main concern here is an ageing French nuclear power plant, built on
> > the French/Lux border. 'Old leaky' (Cattenom) is a typically badly
> > maintained French facility. It was positioned so as to minimise adverse
> > effects on France, and to spite Luxembourg for not allowing it to be
> > built on Lux soil in the first place. The city of Luxembourg is
> > down-wind from the plant.
>
> What is 'typically' about it?
> All of the French nuclear power industry is poorly maintained,

That's what "typically" means.

> for the simple reason that EDF is effectively bankrupt.
> Only endless financing by the state is keeping it up.
> (they had to find 10 billion recently to renationalise EDF)
>
> And it is going from bad to worse:
> Not being able to generate enough power of their own
> they have to buy it from abroad, at today's ruinous gas price.
> Fortunately for them they also built thousands of 'eoliennes',

"wind farms," probably

> which produce electricity at next to zero marginal cost,
>

[lar3ryca]

My favourite bumper sticker read

PRAY FOR THE SUCCEESS
OF ATHEISM

I think it only lasted about two weeks on the bumper of my TR3, before
someone scraped it off.

--
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
– Mark Twain

[musika]

On 26/08/2022 22:14, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-08-26 13:45, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:06:18 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>>> Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>>>> state!)
>>> Re this:
>>> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>>>
>>> Tomorrow also on my site.
>>
>> On a completely unrelated subject, I saw a beaten-up old pickup truck
>> today with a bumper sticker that said "Viva Interlingua!"
>
> My favourite bumper sticker read
>
>  PRAY FOR THE SUCCEESS
>      OF ATHEISM
>
> I think it only lasted about two weeks on the bumper of my TR3, before
> someone scraped it off.
>

It was probably the spelling police.

--
Ray
UK

[Quinn C]

* Sam Plusnet:

Not many helicopters here in Quebec - no medical ones, for example.

There was a year when I noticed a hovering helicopter in downtown twice
within a few weeks, and both times, it turned out to be a communist
demonstration - 30 people or so. Screwed up priorities.

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022, at 19:46:05, Sam Plusnet posted:

Here, I associate hovering helicopters with attempts by The Authorities
to catch illegal hare-coursers up on the Downs. I can't think quite why
I think that, though. I feel that most hares must have been fully
coursed away by now. Jugged, almost.
--
Paul

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:29:45 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 25-Aug-22 23:28, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
>>> regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
>>> Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.
>>>
>>> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
>>> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
>>>
>> At the moment, the nearest thing we have to those "Silver Alerts" is the
>> sound of a helicopter loitering overhead for an extended period.
>>
>> Of course, it might also turn out for a different reason.
>
>Not many helicopters here in Quebec - no medical ones, for example.
>

This article
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/trauma-response-quebec-launches-helicopter-ambulance-pilot-project
is dated June, 2018,

Did this program not get off the ground?

[Sam Plusnet]

We noted the extended helicopter visitation, but assumed it was another
'very elderly person who has wandered off' event.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

When we first had visits from helicopters it was often at night (great
fun for me and everyone who started work at O-dark-thirty), and usually
turned out to be searching for petty criminals.
After a while, someone must have declared this to be a poor use of an
expensive facility.
The accent seems to have shifted to the elderly confused.

--
Sam Plusnet

[lar3ryca]

<Applause!>

--
The five weekdays abbreviate to Mt. WTF

[Tony Cooper]

I see or hear a helicopter almost daily. We have traffic helicopters
the relay traffic conditions to the radio and television stations,
there are two hospitals with helipads in the vincinity, and the
Sherrif's helicopters sometimes hover at night with searchlights
following some criminal activity.

The two hospitals in this vicinity are satellites of major hospitals,
and those are the trauma centers.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

The local police here in Vancouver also have a helicopter, equipped with strong
search lights and a loudspeaker system. It's used mainly as a preventive tool
when big crowds are gathered, establishing a very visible police presence
to remind the crowds that the police are on the job.

bill

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022, at 22:29:22, bil...@shaw.ca posted:

One of our 'air ambulance' helicopters landed next to our croquet courts
while I was playing, to attend a road accident close by. I found that
you just can't play good croquet near the down-draught of a helicopter -
the balls won't behave themselves.
--
Paul

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

That's the trouble with balls: they often don't want to behave themselves.


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Quinn C]

* Tony Cooper:

> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:29:45 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>* Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 25-Aug-22 23:28, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
>>>> regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
>>>> Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.
>>>>
>>>> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
>>>> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
>>>>
>>> At the moment, the nearest thing we have to those "Silver Alerts" is the
>>> sound of a helicopter loitering overhead for an extended period.
>>>
>>> Of course, it might also turn out for a different reason.
>>
>>Not many helicopters here in Quebec - no medical ones, for example.

To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services that
you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one sent from
a 911 call.

> This article
> https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/trauma-response-quebec-launches-helicopter-ambulance-pilot-project
> is dated June, 2018,
>
> Did this program not get off the ground?

I don't think it did; the next government put the plan on ice. But I may
be wrong, I'm not very consistent in following local news these days.

I used to live next to a university hospital in Germany and was ear
witness to multiple helicopter landings daily.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 10:45:43 -0400, Quinn C

<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:29:45 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>>* Sam Plusnet:
>>>
>>>> On 25-Aug-22 23:28, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency Alerts
>>>>> regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and "Silver
>>>>> Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often they
>>>>> contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
>>>>>
>>>> At the moment, the nearest thing we have to those "Silver Alerts" is the
>>>> sound of a helicopter loitering overhead for an extended period.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it might also turn out for a different reason.
>>>
>>>Not many helicopters here in Quebec - no medical ones, for example.
>
>To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services that
>you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one sent from
>a 911 call.
>

I'm not, of course, aware of how something is done in other places,
but I cannot envision anywhere where a 911 call can summon a
helicopter for a medical emergency. A 911 (if that's the local code)
call is placed by a member of the general public.

The responding emergency service is the one that summons the
helicopter. In my area, it is the responding crew from the fire
department that makes the request.

Our son, who is a fire fighter paramedic can make this request call.
If there's an accident with a serious head injury, and it's thought
that the injury should be dealt with by a neurological trauma center
rather than the local hospital, he can make the request.

It's exceedingly rare to do so, though. Usually the patient is
transported to the local hospital, and the medical personnel at the
hospital make the decision to transfer the patient to another
hospital by helicopter.

He's only done this once, and - in that case - the patients were
transported first to a nearby high school so the helicopter could land
on the football field. There was no safe landing area at the accident
scene. One of the two victims did not survive the trip to the high
school.

This one of the reasons that there is so much stress involved for the
paramedics. There's the question "Could I have made that call sooner
or more forcefully presented the need?" which might have resulted in
that one victim surviving.

[Paul Carmichael]

El Wed, 24 Aug 2022 19:02:52 -0700, Jerry Friedman escribió:

> I just got an alert on my phone in which an English-speaking speech
> synthesizer delivered a Spanish text. The result wasn't good.
>
> (It was a flood warning--the warning we in New Mexico like best.)

When I'm driving and my phone receives a text message in English, the car
computer thing tries to read it out in Spanish. Gobbledegook.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Paul Carmichael]

Where I live they've coursed the hares out of existence. So now there are
more abandoned greyhounds than ever.


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Sam Plusnet]

Here it's lamping for rabbits - but I haven't seen it happening for a while.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/08/22 02:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 10:45:43 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>> To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services
>> that you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one
>> sent from a 911 call.
>>
> I'm not, of course, aware of how something is done in other places,
> but I cannot envision anywhere where a 911 call can summon a
> helicopter for a medical emergency. A 911 (if that's the local
> code) call is placed by a member of the general public.
>
> The responding emergency service is the one that summons the
> helicopter. In my area, it is the responding crew from the fire
> department that makes the request.
>
> Our son, who is a fire fighter paramedic can make this request call.
> If there's an accident with a serious head injury, and it's thought
> that the injury should be dealt with by a neurological trauma center
> rather than the local hospital, he can make the request.

I don't think we have fire fighter paramedics here. The fire service
responds only if there is an actual fire or a risk of fire. The
paramedics travel in ambulances.

Almost all of the helicopters I see in this region are taking people
from accident sites to hospitals. I imagine it's the ambulance service
that calls them, in cases where a helicopter can get to a site faster
than an ambulance can. (Or where there's simply no road access.)

Occasionally we might see a military helicopter, usually near one of the
beaches. They are probably on training missions, but occasionally they
do beachgoers a service by spotting sharks. The air force people take
particular care of the nude beaches.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:34:52 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 28/08/22 02:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 10:45:43 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>> To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services
>>> that you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one
>>> sent from a 911 call.
>>>
>> I'm not, of course, aware of how something is done in other places,
>> but I cannot envision anywhere where a 911 call can summon a
>> helicopter for a medical emergency. A 911 (if that's the local
>> code) call is placed by a member of the general public.
>>
>> The responding emergency service is the one that summons the
>> helicopter. In my area, it is the responding crew from the fire
>> department that makes the request.
>>
>> Our son, who is a fire fighter paramedic can make this request call.
>> If there's an accident with a serious head injury, and it's thought
>> that the injury should be dealt with by a neurological trauma center
>> rather than the local hospital, he can make the request.
>
>I don't think we have fire fighter paramedics here. The fire service
>responds only if there is an actual fire or a risk of fire. The
>paramedics travel in ambulances.
>

I don't know how many other states do it the way Florida does, but in
Florida firefighters are first responders to accidents-with-injury and
medical emergency calls.

Each station with have regular fire trucks and at least one "box"
which serves as an "ambulance". Victims who are treated may be
transported to a hospital, but that's far from the most calls.

A trip to the hospital is not a free ride, and victims of minor
injuries or medical issues are advised that they will be charged for
the ride. It's not a covered expense by most medical insurance plans.

The "box" usually has two firefighters on board. One or both will be
a certified paramedic firefighter, and the second - if not a certified
paramedic - will be a trained EMT.

When there's an actual fire, the "box" will be there in case there are
injuries to members of the public or to the firefighters.

Hospitals have ambulances, but they are used to transport patients
from one facility to another. They don't respond to emergency calls.

>Almost all of the helicopters I see in this region are taking people
>from accident sites to hospitals. I imagine it's the ambulance service
>that calls them, in cases where a helicopter can get to a site faster
>than an ambulance can. (Or where there's simply no road access.)

In a city enviornment, there's rarely a place near the accident to
land a helicopter. Almost all of the medical helicopter traffic in
this area is transporting a patient from one hospital to another
because the other hospital has personnel or facilities for treating a
particular type of trauma.

>
>Occasionally we might see a military helicopter, usually near one of the
>beaches. They are probably on training missions, but occasionally they
>do beachgoers a service by spotting sharks. The air force people t

>particular care of the nude beaches.
--

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:

>On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:06:18 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >state!)
>> Re this:
>> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>>
>> Tomorrow also on my site.
>
>On a completely unrelated subject, I saw a beaten-up old pickup truck
>today with a bumper sticker that said "Viva Interlingua!"

BTW, those tweets are in Dutch, not Interlingua. And about the history
of Nieuw-Nederland and Ny-Sverige or whatever it was called in
Swedish.
https://rudharc.com/new ==> https://rudhar.com/politics/gewvryhd.htm .
Reasonably survives GT.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
scribeva:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>

>wrote:
>
>>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>
>>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>>>state!)
>

>A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>Hempstead NY, has to say.
>>

>>Re this:
>>https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>>
>Even more confusing. I see a number of familiar letters, but no
>familiar words.

That's what Dutch, my native language, is like. Written in Latin
Script, but completely incomprehensible.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:05:00 +0100: "Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1>
scribeva:

>On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400
>Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> ><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >
>> >>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >>state!)
>>
>> A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>> wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>> Hempstead NY, has to say.
>> >
>

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York
>"The beach itself receives approximately six million visitors per year."

Heemstede! Near Haarlem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heemstede

[Ruud Harmsen]

Fri, 26 Aug 2022 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:06:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>> >Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >state!)
>>
>> Re this:
>> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
>
>What do a bunch of tweets in Dutch (that include Peter Stuyrvesant's
>portrait) have to do with a sewer emergency in Jersey City?

I was wondering what is the second-largest city in New-Jersey, then
found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sweden,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kieft%27s_War, etc.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sun, 28 Aug 2022 09:30:10 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
scribeva:

Found it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_New_Jersey

[Paul Carmichael]

In the UK, the offence was called "in pursuit of coney" or somesuch. At
least that's small scale. Hare coursing here is one of the national
hobbies, alongside bull-torture etc. All perfectly legal.

<thread swerve>

There have been a few deaths lately. They set fire to a bull's horns and
wonder why it gets annoyed and kills people.


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 28.08.2022 kl. 09.22 skrev Ruud Harmsen:

> That's what Dutch, my native language, is like. Written in Latin
> Script, but completely incomprehensible.

Except for Danes. We understand between 50 and 75 percent of the written
language with no special training. The spoken language on the other hand
is completely incomprehensible.

--
Bertel

[Janet]

In article <pan$5ef4d$1a39fa07$d0a27fa7
$4018...@gmail.com>, wibble...@gmail.com says...

>
> El Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:04:03 +0100, Sam Plusnet escribió:
>
> > On 27-Aug-22 17:44, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >> El Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:10:39 +0100, Paul Wolff escribió:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022, at 19:46:05, Sam Plusnet posted:
> >>>> On 25-Aug-22 23:28, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If texts are what are being discussed, I've received Emergency
> >>>>> Alerts regarding severe weather conditions, abducted children, and
> >>>>> "Silver Alerts" about missing or unaccounted for elderly people.
> >>>>> The Silver Alerts are the most common in this area. Quite often
> >>>>> they contain the make, color, and license plate number of a vehicle.
> >>>>>
> >>>> At the moment, the nearest thing we have to those "Silver Alerts" is
> >>>> the sound of a helicopter loitering overhead for an extended period.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course, it might also turn out for a different reason.
> >>>>
> >>> Here, I associate hovering helicopters with attempts by The
> >>> Authorities to catch illegal hare-coursers up on the Downs. I can't
> >>> think quite why I think that, though. I feel that most hares must have
> >>> been fully coursed away by now. Jugged, almost.
> >>
> >>
> >> Where I live they've coursed the hares out of existence. So now there
> >> are more abandoned greyhounds than ever.
> >
> > Here it's lamping for rabbits - but I haven't seen it happening for a
> > while.
>
>
> In the UK, the offence was called "in pursuit of coney" or somesuch. At
> least that's small scale.

IN UK< lamping for rabbits is legitimate if conducted by
the landowner or with their consent, in a manner compliant
with gun safety regulations.

My sheep farm neighbour dropped in to warn us we would
hear him shooting after dark; he and his brother were
going to lamp for rabbits that night, to reduce grazing
competition. They shot 600 rabbits that night and sold
them for petfood, which covered the cost of the ammo.

The adjacent farm used to employ a fine shot to lamp for
foxes. He was paid per tail.

Hare coursing is strictly illegal in Scotland, only done
by poachers. Quite frequent in that same location.


Janet.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
> scribeva:
> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> >wrote:
> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >>>state!)
> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
> >Hempstead NY, has to say.

The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.

> >Even more confusing. I see a number of familiar letters, but no
> >familiar words.

> That's what Dutch, my native language, is like. Written in Latin Script,

Or realized who/where you are.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
>> scribeva:
>> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >>>state!)
>> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>> >Hempstead NY, has to say.
>
>The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.

https://www.newyork-demographics.com/cities_by_population

[Peter T. Daniels]

The Sage of Orlando has a peculiar notion of what "city" means,
given that 7 of the first 10 items on that list are not cities at all,
but town(ship)s on Long Island.

The five largest cities in NY are NYC, Buffalo, Rochester,
Yonkers, and Syracuse.

But if he were not too stupid to read his own spew, he would
have noticed that the topic was cities in New Jersey.

> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And idiotic desperation.

[Ken Blake]

That's a surprise to me. If I had had to guess which was the
second-largest city, I would have thought it was Syracuse, Rochester,
or Buffalo.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I would have guessed Buffalo, but it's No. 6.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Sun, 28 Aug 2022 11:04:36 +0200: Bertel Lund Hansen
<gade...@lundhansen.dk> scribeva:

I've heard others say that too.
But in the other direction I find Skandinavian language quite hard to
understand both written and spoken.

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:34:52 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 28/08/22 02:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 10:45:43 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>> To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services
>>> that you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one
>>> sent from a 911 call.
>>>
>> I'm not, of course, aware of how something is done in other places,
>> but I cannot envision anywhere where a 911 call can summon a
>> helicopter for a medical emergency. A 911 (if that's the local
>> code) call is placed by a member of the general public.
>>
>> The responding emergency service is the one that summons the
>> helicopter. In my area, it is the responding crew from the fire
>> department that makes the request.
>>
>> Our son, who is a fire fighter paramedic can make this request call.
>> If there's an accident with a serious head injury, and it's thought
>> that the injury should be dealt with by a neurological trauma center
>> rather than the local hospital, he can make the request.
>
>I don't think we have fire fighter paramedics here. The fire service
>responds only if there is an actual fire or a risk of fire. The
>paramedics travel in ambulances.

Here, if you call 911 with a medical emergency, a vehicle from the
nearest fire station arrives with paramedics. Are they also
firefighters? I don't know.

If the vehicle they arrive in an ambulance or a fire engine? I don't
know that either. The three times I called 911 for my wife last year,
I was too distraught to notice.

[Ken Blake]

I think (just "think": I'm not sure) most of the medical helicopters
here are used to pick up people with emergencies who live far from the
nearest hospital.

[charles]

In article <ob8nghtbq5g1s54t5...@4ax.com>,

In the UK, Air Ambulances are used to bring paramedics to where they are
needed; often a road accident. Thye will probably take the patient to
hospital, too. They are mostly operated by a charity,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:09:19 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

In Florida they are a "Fire Rescue Truck", but called "the box" by the
firefighters. The "fire engine" is the one with the ladders and
hoses.

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/929096714/photo/florida-miami-beach-fire-rescue-truck-on-street.webp?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=o5_oB84AFPSDLX2Tny0Q_eK1Lp7VovE-259WBg54cD4=

Again, in Florida, a person will attend a "Firefighter Academy" to be
trained as a firefighter. After completion of the course, the person
is eligible to be hired as a firefighter.

That person can attend additional courses to be certified as an EMT or
it can be done concurrently with the firefighter training course.

Most county fire departments require all firefighters in the county to
have EMT certification. It can be done concurrently with the
firefighter training course.

The person can then take additional courses to become a certificed
paramedic. This takes about a year, and they do that while acting as
firefighter when on shift. After completing the courses, the person
rides along with a paramedic training officer for a period of time for
the final certification. There are additional ongoing training
courses required for certification.

The firefighter who is a paramedic is still a firefighter, and will
act as a firefighter at the scene of fire if needed. Mostly they hang
back and help out with the hoses, gear changes for other firefighters,
and that sort of thing. They have to be available to drop anything
else when there's a need for medical assistance.

[Peter T. Daniels]

No, it's No. 2. That list jumbles together all levels of municipality
as "city,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York

"The Town of Hempstead is one of the three towns in Nassau County
in the U.S. state of New York."

(Nassau officials sometimes refer to the county as "the three towns.")

"If Hempstead were to be incorporated as a city, it would be the second-
largest city in New York, behind New York City."

[Sam Plusnet]

On 28-Aug-22 4:10, Tony Cooper wrote:
Lots, but cherry-picking like mad...

>
> A trip to the hospital is not a free ride, and victims of minor
> injuries or medical issues are advised that they will be charged for
> the ride. It's not a covered expense by most medical insurance plans.

And

> Almost all of the medical helicopter traffic in
> this area is transporting a patient from one hospital to another
> because the other hospital has personnel or facilities for treating a
> particular type of trauma.

I assume the patient will see this helicopter transfer on their bill at
some point.
I understand even a short ambulance ride can cost $1,000, the cost of a
helicopter transfer must be daunting.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

A short post, but it must have given you great satisfaction.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 20:26:38, Sam Plusnet posted:

I thought it might be interesting to follow the link, and it was, but
not for the reasons I expected. I'd never heard of those runners-up,
until Buffalo. Where can they be? My conclusion is what I always did
think, that American use of the word 'city' follows very different rules
from those of BrE. Hempstead, North Hempstead and Hempstead Village
brought up images of Hampstead, North Hampstead and Hampstead Village in
London NW3, to my mind. Yet the unknown Hempstead, NY has a population
well over twice that of Nottingham, England.
--
Paul

[Peter T. Daniels]

Did you continue on to the message in which I revealed the truth
about the list?

That C**p*r was gullible enough to take as a list of cities?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 4:14:56 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 20:26:38, Sam Plusnet posted:
> >On 28-Aug-22 15:35, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>> The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
> >>> Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
> >> https://www.newyork-demographics.com/cities_by_population
> >A short post, but it must have given you great satisfaction.
>
> I thought it might be interesting to follow the link, and it was, but
> not for the reasons I expected. I'd never heard of those runners-up,
> until Buffalo. Where can they be? My conclusion is what I always did
> think, that American use of the word 'city' follows very different rules

It has nothing to do with "American use." Hempstead, L.I., is
simply not a city.

I even gave a couple of links where you could find out what
Hempstead is -- one of the "three towns" that constitute
Nassau County.

> from those of BrE. Hempstead, North Hempstead and Hempstead Village
> brought up images of Hampstead, North Hampstead and Hampstead Village in
> London NW3, to my mind. Yet the unknown Hempstead, NY has a population
> well over twice that of Nottingham, England.

Within the town of Hempstead, there's a village of Hempstead
with a village-sized population.

When will you people stop believing that T*ny C**p*r purveys
true information about ANYTHING when he is in "attack-PTD"
mode?

[Quinn C]

* Tony Cooper:

> On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 10:45:43 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>

>>* Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:29:45 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>>>>Not many helicopters here in Quebec - no medical ones, for example.

>>
>>To be more precise, there are private helicopter ambulance services that
>>you can subscribe to individually, but I was referring to one sent from
>>a 911 call.
>>
> I'm not, of course, aware of how something is done in other places,
> but I cannot envision anywhere where a 911 call can summon a
> helicopter for a medical emergency. A 911 (if that's the local code)
> call is placed by a member of the general public.
>
> The responding emergency service is the one that summons the
> helicopter. In my area, it is the responding crew from the fire
> department that makes the request.

That wasn't my point. My point is that to get helicopter transport in
Quebec, you need to be registered with and regularly paying to the
company that operates those helicopters. Public health insurance will
never cover it, and not the usual private ones, either.

> Our son, who is a fire fighter paramedic can make this request call.
> If there's an accident with a serious head injury, and it's thought
> that the injury should be dealt with by a neurological trauma center
> rather than the local hospital, he can make the request.
>

> It's exceedingly rare to do so, though. Usually the patient is
> transported to the local hospital, and the medical personnel at the
> hospital make the decision to transfer the patient to another
> hospital by helicopter.

There seem to be a good 80,000 such transports a year in Germany, or one
per every 1,000 of population. That doesn't seem exceedingly rare (=
almost every tenth person will undergo such transport in their life.)
In my understanding of the statistics I got this from, these are cases
where the general (government-regulated) insurance pays for the
transport.

From what I know, it's quite common in the case of car crashes, because
time is often critical, and a helicopter can (almost?) always land on
the Autobahn.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Snidely]

Peter T. Daniels used thar keyboard to writen:

You know, Peter, even the lurkers that support you in email are finding
that you're stuck in rut that has no foundation and that you're doing
the wallowing in mud thing.

/dps

--
As a colleague once told me about an incoming manager,
"He does very well in a suck-up, kick-down culture."
Bill in Vancouver

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:20:17 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 28-Aug-22 4:10, Tony Cooper wrote:
>Lots, but cherry-picking like mad...
>>
>> A trip to the hospital is not a free ride, and victims of minor
>> injuries or medical issues are advised that they will be charged for
>> the ride. It's not a covered expense by most medical insurance plans.
>And
>> Almost all of the medical helicopter traffic in
>> this area is transporting a patient from one hospital to another
>> because the other hospital has personnel or facilities for treating a
>> particular type of trauma.
>
>I assume the patient will see this helicopter transfer on their bill at
>some point.
>I understand even a short ambulance ride can cost $1,000,

I'm not sure I remember correctly, but I think it was $180 here.

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> "If Hempstead were to be incorporated as a city, it would be the second-
> largest city in New York, behind New York City."

It's plainly confusing to make a list of "largest cities" and
distinguish by administrative status. The two things belong to different
realms of knowledge, and it's awkward to always have to say "largest
municipalities".

--
Kira: Any luck?
Garak: Plenty, major. Unfortunately, all of it bad.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:13:51 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

"Here", as almost everything in the US, depends on where "here" is. In
this case, where "here" is by state and by county.

The average charge to the patient in the Orlando area is $700 to
$1,000.

Fire departments are by-county in Florida. The Orlando area rate is
determined by Orange County.

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/08/22 22:06, Janet wrote:

> IN UK< lamping for rabbits is legitimate if conducted by the
> landowner or with their consent, in a manner compliant with gun
> safety regulations.

I don't know what the exact rules here, but the general view of
Australians is that anything that reduces the number of rabbits is
socially responsible.

Recently I read that all of Australia's rabbits are descended from a
batch of 24 introduced by a single person.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 29/08/22 04:37, Tony Cooper wrote:

> In Florida they are a "Fire Rescue Truck", but called "the box" by
> the firefighters. The "fire engine" is the one with the ladders and
> hoses.

That sounds a bit like our "Police Rescue" units. They are the ones who
respond if, for example, someone has fallen down a cliff. And that's
another example where helicopters might be used.

[Peter Moylan]

An English speaker reading Dutch will find lots of understandable words,
but rarely enough to make an entire sentence.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:56:59 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/08/22 04:37, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> In Florida they are a "Fire Rescue Truck", but called "the box" by
>> the firefighters. The "fire engine" is the one with the ladders and
>> hoses.
>
>That sounds a bit like our "Police Rescue" units. They are the ones who
>respond if, for example, someone has fallen down a cliff. And that's
>another example where helicopters might be used.

We have very few cliffs in Florida. There are some very uneven
sidewalks, though, that do cause falls.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Mon, 29 Aug 2022 12:02:02 +1000: Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:

The other words are similar to German.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:14:04 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:

> > "If Hempstead were to be incorporated as a city, it would be the second-
> > largest city in New York, behind New York City."
>
> It's plainly confusing to make a list of "largest cities" and
> distinguish by administrative status. The two things belong to different
> realms of knowledge, and it's awkward to always have to say "largest
> municipalities".

Why do they think it's interesting that 1/3 of Nassau County has
more people than the city of Buffalo?

The interesting thing about that list is how far Yonkers has fallen
-- it used to alternate with Buffalo as #2.

Rochester's strength is surprising, given the collapse of Kodak.
Unless they diversified in unexpe ctedc ways, they must have
had to lay off an awful lot of workers.

(Cue TC to do "research" into the health of Kodak.)

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 1:21:38 AM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:

> >On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:06:18 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >> >Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >> >state!)

> >> Re this:
> >> https://twitter.com/rudharcom/status/1563231004252602369
> >>
> >> Tomorrow also on my site.
> >
> >On a completely unrelated subject, I saw a beaten-up old pickup truck
> >today with a bumper sticker that said "Viva Interlingua!"

> BTW, those tweets are in Dutch, not Interlingua.
...

Yes, that's why I said the subject was completely unrelated. Seeing you
here the same day I saw the sticker was what led to mention that.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:14:04 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>>> "If Hempstead were to be incorporated as a city, it would be the second-
>>> largest city in New York, behind New York City."
>>
>> It's plainly confusing to make a list of "largest cities" and
>> distinguish by administrative status. The two things belong to different
>> realms of knowledge, and it's awkward to always have to say "largest
>> municipalities".
>
> Why do they think it's interesting that 1/3 of Nassau County has
> more people than the city of Buffalo?

I have no reference of what that means, but if you think that population
density is relevant, then you should rank urban agglomerations, ignoring
all political divisions.

The largest "metropolitan region" (that's an official designation, so
still not purely population demographics) in Germany is "Rheinland",
including the cities of Köln, Düsseldorf, Duisburg, Wuppertal, Bonn,
Mönchengladbach, Aachen, Krefeld, Leverkusen, Solingen and some smaller
ones, 8.7 million people. Next to it is the "Ruhr" region with another
11 cities and 5.1 million people. On a purely geographical basis, I
think parts of both might form an agglomeration with maybe 10 million
people, and the rest should be excluded for not being dense enough.

[Jerry Friedman]

All of Nassau County is part of the suburbs of New York City. According to
Wikipedia, it's one of the /central/ counties of the New York metropolitan
area.

The "town" of Hempstead includes a number of incorporated villages. It
does have a town council and town supervisor, so politically it might be
considered on a level with Buffalo, but I don't know how people there
consider it.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 07:15:52, Peter T. Daniels posted:

>On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
>> scribeva:
>> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>

>> >wrote:
>> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >>>state!)

>> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>> >Hempstead NY, has to say.
>

>The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.

I've been otherwise engaged and haven't yet read to the end of this
thread, but meanwhile, what is the difference in meaning between "NY"
and "L.I." written after the city name "Hempstead"? Are they two
different cities? It's confusing to some of us foreigners.

I realise that someone upthread has drastically snipped material that
might have thrown light upon this, but there we are. I deal with what's
presented in the post I'm following up.

--
Paul

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 09:16:49, Peter T. Daniels posted:

>On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 10:35:54 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>

>> >On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
>> >> scribeva:
>> >> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
>> >> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>> >> >>>state!)
>> >> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>> >> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>> >> >Hempstead NY, has to say.
>> >The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>> >Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
>>

>> https://www.newyork-demographics.com/cities_by_population
>
>The Sage of Orlando has a peculiar notion of what "city" means,
>given that 7 of the first 10 items on that list are not cities at all,
>but town(ship)s on Long Island.

Hang on. It's the author of that web page you ought to be complaining
to, not an innocent reader and quoter of it.
>
>The five largest cities in NY are NYC, Buffalo, Rochester,
>Yonkers, and Syracuse.

So, be helpful: what is the probable cause of the alleged
misrepresentation on that web page?

--
Paul

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 13:47:41, Peter T. Daniels posted:

>On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 4:14:56 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 20:26:38, Sam Plusnet posted:
>> >On 28-Aug-22 15:35, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >>> The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>> >>> Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
>> >> https://www.newyork-demographics.com/cities_by_population
>> >A short post, but it must have given you great satisfaction.
>>
>> I thought it might be interesting to follow the link, and it was, but
>> not for the reasons I expected. I'd never heard of those runners-up,
>> until Buffalo. Where can they be? My conclusion is what I always did
>> think, that American use of the word 'city' follows very different rules
>
>It has nothing to do with "American use." Hempstead, L.I., is
>simply not a city.
>
>I even gave a couple of links where you could find out what
>Hempstead is -- one of the "three towns" that constitute
>Nassau County.

I think that by now I must have stumbled across your post giving that
information, but you may like to know that you post so voluminously to
this newsgroup that I cannot - will not - spend my time reading them
all, so I have to find ways to discriminate, which means blocking them
unless they show some interesting characteristic. Sorry, but there it
is.

>
>> from those of BrE. Hempstead, North Hempstead and Hempstead Village
>> brought up images of Hampstead, North Hampstead and Hampstead Village in
>> London NW3, to my mind. Yet the unknown Hempstead, NY has a population
>> well over twice that of Nottingham, England.
>
>Within the town of Hempstead, there's a village of Hempstead
>with a village-sized population.
>
>When will you people stop believing that T*ny C**p*r purveys
>true information about ANYTHING when he is in "attack-PTD"
>mode?

This looks like an attack on me as "you people" for following a web link
that Tony Cooper commented on. I had no idea that you advocate avoiding
web links that your enemies give. If this is so, I refuse to be drawn
into such childishness.

--
Paul

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Don't forget the ones of French origin, left behind during Napoleonic times.

bill

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 3:32:20 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 07:15:52, Peter T. Daniels posted:
> >On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
> >> scribeva:
> >> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> >> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
> >> >>>state!)
> >> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
> >> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
> >> >Hempstead NY, has to say.
> >The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
> >Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
>
> I've been otherwise engaged and haven't yet read to the end of this
> thread, but meanwhile, what is the difference in meaning between "NY"
> and "L.I." written after the city name "Hempstead"? Are they two
> different cities? It's confusing to some of us foreigners.

Us locals just always say "L.I." and not "N.Y." for the eastern
suburbs. The farther east you go, the more likely you are to
change -- "Stony Brook, NY" feels natural. Though it's still
"Montauk, LI" (the easternmost settlement. (But the various
Hamptons, teeming with the ultra-rich, must be sui generis,
because we don't need to use either qualifier.)

It also goes back to the pre-1963 [introduction of ZIP Codes]
post office use, which liked to have town and region names
to aid in the sorting.

> I realise that someone upthread has drastically snipped material that
> might have thrown light upon this, but there we are. I deal with what's
> presented in the post I'm following up.

The problem is that TC made one of his usual snide allusions
to Jersey City, and I asked what (something about) the second-
largest city in the state had to do with whatever he was talking
about, and I having just pointed out for the umpteenth time that
I am a New Yorker, he decided that I must have been referring to
the second-largest city in NY, so he did his "research" and found
an ordered list of political entities that was mislabeled "cities."

Orange juice ad you asked?

[Peter T. Daniels]

This would seem to be the only way to worm a definition
of "city" out of them:

"About Us
"New York-Demographics.com is made by Cubit – a demographic
data provider. Call us at 1-800-939-2130 or email us."

[Peter T. Daniels]

Uh, no, "you people" is plural, you are singular.

> that Tony Cooper commented on. I had no idea that you advocate avoiding
> web links that your enemies give. If this is so, I refuse to be drawn
> into such childishness.

Just count the number of times they prove to be completely
wrong (like this one), outdated (several of the supposed JC-
example ones), or completely irrelevant.

He even managed to claim that Waylyn Hobbs (misspelled as
Waylon), the mayor of the Village of Hempstead, is the (nonexistent)
"mayor of the town of Hempstead."

https://www.villageofhempstead.org/301/Mayor-Waylyn-Hobbs-Jr

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 29 Aug 2022 20:27:11 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 07:15:52, Peter T. Daniels posted:
>>On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 3:22:55 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Fri, 26 Aug 2022 15:48:06 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
>>> scribeva:
>>> >On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 21:06:13 +0200, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >>Fri, 26 Aug 2022 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> >><gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>
>>> >>>Just the other day, the mayor (of the second-largest city in the
>>> >>>state!)
>>> >A confusing post. PTD identifies as a New Yorker, so one has to
>>> >wonder why he's interested in what Waylon Hobbs, the Mayor of
>>> >Hempstead NY, has to say.
>>
>>The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>>Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
>
>I've been otherwise engaged and haven't yet read to the end of this
>thread, but meanwhile, what is the difference in meaning between "NY"
>and "L.I." written after the city name "Hempstead"? Are they two
>different cities? It's confusing to some of us foreigners.

No, the "L.I." stands for Long Island. Hempstead NY is a town on Long
Island, and Long Island is a part of the New York City Metropolitan
Area.

That might the only instance you'll ever see of "Hemstead L.I."

There are two ways to look at the city or town thing. One is that any
urban area with a large population and a high infastructure
development is a "city". The other is the legal status.

A village, town, or city will have a charter that is the legal
document that defines the status of what it is and the organization,
powers, and functions of the government.

Population does not determine the legal status.

It's not uncommon to find a list of the largest cities in a state to
include municipalities that are not cities. This one:
https://www.biggestuscities.com/il
shows Skokie as the 18th largest city in Illinois.

It is by the population view, but not by the legal view. Skokie is
incorporated as a Village.

You can't even tell by the name. Colorado City, Colorado is legally a
town.

>I realise that someone upthread has drastically snipped material that
>might have thrown light upon this, but there we are. I deal with what's
>presented in the post I'm following up.
--

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Den 28-08-2022 kl. 22:47 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 4:14:56 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022, at 20:26:38, Sam Plusnet posted:
>>> On 28-Aug-22 15:35, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 07:15:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> The Sage of Orlando still hasn't said what state he thinks
>>>>> Hempstead, L.I., is the second largest city in.
>>>> https://www.newyork-demographics.com/cities_by_population
>>> A short post, but it must have given you great satisfaction.
>>
>> I thought it might be interesting to follow the link, and it was, but
>> not for the reasons I expected. I'd never heard of those runners-up,
>> until Buffalo. Where can they be? My conclusion is what I always did
>> think, that American use of the word 'city' follows very different rules

>> from those of BrE.

>
> It has nothing to do with "American use." Hempstead, L.I., is
> simply not a city.

... in American usage. Which is exactly what PW claimed, so why
do you insist that it has nothing to do with it?

If ever there was a time to stop digging ...

/Anders, Denmark