Pronunciation of "Hummus"
Leah
a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
I've always figured this was the British way of pronouncing it (since
my family is British but currently lives in America). I know that
lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
pronounce "humus", the dirt?
N.S.D
Sadly, I believe you are correct in that "hum-mus" is the way
Americans pronounce it. My family has roots in Israel, so I have
always pronounced it the Hebrew way (which is probably the same or
similar to the Arabic way) "choo-moose", where "ch" is the gutteral
sound we don't have in English. I tried ordering it that way in a
restaurant recently, and the poor waitress had no idea what I was
talking about. I tried saying it more clearly, and finally gave up
and said "hum-mus", which really stuck in my throat. :( It's like
ordering foie gras in a restaurant and having to pronounce it
"foy grass" to be understood!
For "humus" you could look in a dictionary, but I've always
said it "hyoo-mus". I apologize for not learning the symbols
for pronunciation that are usually used here.
- Naomi D.
Pat Durkin
"Leah" <gitte...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5f01e745.02091...@posting.google.com...
Just as you "thought" the British might pronounce "hummus", the chickpea
puree. Notice the "silent h" as an optional pronunciation in "humus,
the dirt".
I don't know if you have a sound system on your computer.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?humus has a sound file with the
American sound.
Main Entry: hu·mus
Pronunciation: 'hyü-m&s, 'yü-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, earth -- more at HUMBLE
Date: 1796
: a brown or black complex variable material resulting from partial
decomposition of plant or animal matter and forming the organic portion
of soil
N.Mitchum
----
> Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" [...]
>) as "hugh-mus" [...] I know that
> lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
> American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
> pronounce "humus", the dirt?
For "hummus" I say "hum us" as in "hum us a tune." That's the
standard US pronunciation as far as I know.
For "humus" I say "hyoo-mus" and have always heard it so
pronounced.
----NM
Mike Barnes
>Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" (as in "
>a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
>paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
>I've always figured this was the British way of pronouncing it (since
>my family is British but currently lives in America).
I (British) don't pronounce it that way and neither do most people I
know. Both vowel sounds are actually like that in "good", though the
second can tend towards a schwa.
BTW I know MW isn't a recipe book but I don't like the idea of hummus
without garlic.
>I know that
>lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
>American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
>pronounce "humus", the dirt?
Hyoo-
--
Mike Barnes
John Smith
>
><...> I have
> always pronounced it the Hebrew way (which is probably the same or
> similar to the Arabic way) "choo-moose", where "ch" is the gutteral
I think the ordinary Israeli Hebrew pronunciation is about as far from
the original as any of the English pronunciations is.
Arabic speakers pronounce the initial phoneme as a voiceless glottal
fricative -- sort of a throaty "h". I understand that some elderly
Israelis of oriental (e.g. Yemeni) background may say it that way too.
Also, the vowels are shorter than "moose" -- more like the oo in book.
And the "m" is held for two beats, since in Arabic (like Spanish and
Italian), consonant length is phonemic. And the final sound is a
velarized "s", analogous to Hebrew tsadi.
In fact, in standard Arabic, "hummus" just means chickpeas, and is
cognate with Hebrew "khimtsa".
At home, we call it HEW-mis. But then, we call the futon a FEWT-n.
\\P. Schultz
Evan Kirshenbaum
> And the "m" is held for two beats, since in Arabic (like Spanish and
> Italian), consonant length is phonemic.
Consonant length if phonemic in Spanish? Can you give a minimal pair?
The closest I can think of is "pero" and "perro", but as I learned it
non-initial single "r" and initial single "r"/double "r" are different
phonemes, the first being an alveolar flap and the second a trill, and
the fact that they are both written with "r" is a historical accident.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |On a scale of one to ten...
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |it sucked.
Palo Alto, CA 94304
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Avi Jacobson
"John Smith" <jsm...@company.com> wrote in message
news:3D866BDD...@company.com...
> "N.S.D" wrote:
> >
> ><...> I have
> > always pronounced it the Hebrew way (which is probably the same or
> > similar to the Arabic way) "choo-moose", where "ch" is the gutteral
> > sound we don't have in English. <...>
>
> I think the ordinary Israeli Hebrew pronunciation is about as far from
> the original as any of the English pronunciations is.
Correct. Standard Israeli Hebrew has lost the pharyngals `ayin and Het and
replaces them with glottal stop (or null) and voiceless uvular fricative
respectively. So much for the first consonant. Vowel length/tension is not
phonemic in Standard Israeli Hebrew, so Israelis tend to pronounce the two
identical vowels in this word like the oo in "moose". So much for the
vowels. Consonant length in Standard Israeli Hebrew is not phonemic, so they
pronounce the /m/ as a single, rather than double. So much for the m. And
all of the so-called emphatic consonants have also been lost in SIH, so the
Arabic .sad is pronounced as a garden-variety [s]. Not a single sound of the
original Arabic remains.
>
> Arabic speakers pronounce the initial phoneme as a voiceless glottal
> fricative -- sort of a throaty "h". I understand that some elderly
> Israelis of oriental (e.g. Yemeni) background may say it that way too.
Not just elderly, and not just Yemenites. Many Israelis of "oriental"
(Hebrew mizraHi, i.e. Middle Eastern) extraction pronounce the pharyngals.
For those who are proud of their mizraHi heritage, the Het and `ayin are a
sign of prestige.
>
> Also, the vowels are shorter than "moose" -- more like the oo in book.
> And the "m" is held for two beats, since in Arabic (like Spanish and
> Italian), consonant length is phonemic. I
It's not in Spanish, except for /r/ vs. /rr/.
> And the final sound is a
> velarized "s", analogous to Hebrew tsadi.
Except that Hebrew tsadi is no longer pronounced that way except by mizraHi
Jews in liturgical contexts.
>
> In fact, in standard Arabic, "hummus" just means chickpeas, and is
> cognate with Hebrew "khimtsa".
Except that not even one Israeli in a thousand will know what khimtsa is.
It's one of those invented Hebrew words that never took off.
Martin Ambuhl
The American way of starting your first sentence is with the pronoun
"I." A reflexive like "myself" needs a local antecedent. The American
way of pronouncing "hummus" or "humous" is /'hVm@s/ or /'hUm@s/,
depending on the crowd one runs with.
Mike Oliver
> The American
> way of pronouncing "hummus" or "humous" is /'hVm@s/ or /'hUm@s/,
> depending on the crowd one runs with.
"Humous"? Is that really an alternative spelling of "hummus"?
To me it looks like it should be the adjectival form
of "humus", along the pattern of callus-callous, mucus-mucous,
phosphorus-phosphorous.
Alternatively I suppose it could mean "while a person is still
alive", in contradistinction to "post-humous" :-).
Pan
>Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" (as in "
>a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
>paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
[snip]
I pronounce it "hoo-MOOS."
Michael
Mike Oliver
> Martin Ambuhl wrote:
> > The American
> > way of pronouncing "hummus" or "humous" is /'hVm@s/ or /'hUm@s/,
> > depending on the crowd one runs with.
>
> "Humous"? Is that really an alternative spelling of "hummus"?
> To me it looks like it should be the adjectival form
> of "humus", along the pattern of callus-callous, mucus-mucous,
> phosphorus-phosphorous.
Oh, and I forgot to mention cus-cus. That's the noun
form of the adjective cous-cous.
Mike Barnes
Ray
"hugh-mus".
Pronunciation in Australia (well Sydney anyway) varies, but commonly rhymes
with 'Thomas'
Ray
Pan
wrote:
>In alt.usage.english, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote
>>hoo-MOOS
>
>A cow.
In what language?
Michael
Edward
>
> I (British) don't pronounce it that way and neither do most people I
> know. Both vowel sounds are actually like that in "good", though the
> second can tend towards a schwa.
I, also British, pronounce it "whomus".
>
> BTW I know MW isn't a recipe book but I don't like the idea of hummus
> without garlic.
Nor cayenne pepper sprinkled on top, with some black olives. Or, with
reference to another current thread, should that be African American
olives.
Edward
Aaron J. Dinkin
> At home, we call it HEW-mis. But then, we call the futon a FEWT-n.
With a /j/, as in "futile"? I've only ever heard /'fu ,tA.n/, rhyming
exactly with "crouton" and almost with "neutron".
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Mike Barnes
>On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:02:10 +0100, Mike Barnes <mi...@senrab.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.usage.english, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote
>>>hoo-MOOS
>>
>>A cow.
>
>In what language?
Friesian.
--
Mike Barnes
N.S.D
>John, there are a few inaccuracies in your response.
>"John Smith" <jsm...@company.com> wrote in message
>news:3D866BDD...@company.com...
>> "N.S.D" wrote:
>> >
>> ><...> I have
>> > always pronounced it the Hebrew way (which is probably the same or
>> > similar to the Arabic way) "choo-moose", where "ch" is the gutteral
>> > sound we don't have in English. <...>
>>
>> I think the ordinary Israeli Hebrew pronunciation is about as far from
>> the original as any of the English pronunciations is.
>
>Correct. Standard Israeli Hebrew has lost the pharyngals `ayin and Het and
>replaces them with glottal stop (or null) and voiceless uvular fricative
>respectively. So much for the first consonant. Vowel length/tension is not
>phonemic in Standard Israeli Hebrew, so Israelis tend to pronounce the two
>identical vowels in this word like the oo in "moose". So much for the
>vowels. Consonant length in Standard Israeli Hebrew is not phonemic, so they
>pronounce the /m/ as a single, rather than double. So much for the m. And
>all of the so-called emphatic consonants have also been lost in SIH, so the
>Arabic .sad is pronounced as a garden-variety [s]. Not a single sound of the
>original Arabic remains.
John and Avi, thanks for the fascinating details (and corrections.)
Some of my relatives know Arabic as well as Hebrew, but clearly I
should never have relied on my own very limited knowledge (though
I'm aware of the "`ayin" pronunciation. I'll have to ask my mother
about the "chet", that one's new to me.)
- Naomi D.
Mike Lyle
Ya salaam! you know things! So why do you occasionally repeat rubbish
when it comes to _English_? Please don't sign it in blood with those
fundamentalist nutters who slipped out of the English class to join
the Lingwistix sect because they couldn't handle the emotions.
Mike.
Richard Fontana
For me (a CINC) these have the "cot" vowel, as does "on". Some AmE CINCs
use the "caught" vowel in "on"; I don't know what they'd use in these
words.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Correct. Standard Israeli Hebrew has lost the pharyngals `ayin and
> Het and replaces them with glottal stop (or null) and voiceless
> uvular fricative respectively.
Uvular, not velar?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Never ascribe to malice that which
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can adequately be explained by
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stupidity.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
GrapeApe
>standard US pronunciation as far as I know.
>
>For "humus" I say "hyoo-mus" and have always heard it so
>pronounced.
That is the usage of this merkin.
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> LOL, I can't believe you posted this! Leah & I were talking about the
> pronunciations of "humus" and "hummus" because I pronounce them both
> exactly the same: "hum-is", with the short 'u'. Is this incorrect?
M-W and AHD4 (which I checked on the Web) list no pronunciation of
"humus" (the moss) that doesn't have a "you" sound in it. (AHD4 has
a second "humus" that it lists as a variant of "hummus.") But I'd
say that in real life the pronunciation of both comes in so many
variants that it's hard to say that you are "incorrect." You are
very much in the minority in pronouncing "humus" as you do, so if
that's what you and Leah were talking about I'd say that her version
is the majority version and yours is a less popular variant.
"Correct" isn't really the issue.
Are you guys still unwilling to believe the dictionaries (or was
that someone else"?
--
Bob Lieblich
A good school year to you, Joe
GrapeApe
>pronunciations of "humus" and "hummus" because I pronounce them both
>exactly the same: "hum-is", with the short 'u'. Is this incorrect?
This American always used a long U for the dirt. Whether it is Hoomus or
Hyoomus is optional.
The chickpea spread ( I like garlic and olive oil as well as the tahini) is
short u hummus.
Sometimes I want to leave out the final s in Couscous, probably something the
frenchies taught me.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Martin Ambuhl wrote:
>
>> The American
>> way of pronouncing "hummus" or "humous" is /'hVm@s/ or /'hUm@s/,
>> depending on the crowd one runs with.
>
>"Humous"? Is that really an alternative spelling of "hummus"?
On a slight tangent, why is humour spelled humour, while humorous is
spelled humorous? This has long confused me.
Charles, who'll never get British spelling right if he lives in
Ireland a hundred years
felix
> >LOL, I can't believe you posted this! Leah & I were talking about the
> >pronunciations of "humus" and "hummus" because I pronounce them both
> >exactly the same: "hum-is", with the short 'u'. Is this incorrect?
>
> short u hummus.
Don't forget the lemon juice! Lemon and legumes are always a fabulous
pairing.
> Sometimes I want to leave out the final s in Couscous, probably something the
> frenchies taught me.
Yes, and look what they did to the places couscous comes from - often
it was much worse than leaving out final esses.
felix
John Todd
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> +------------------------------------
> |Never ascribe to malice that which
You said a mouthful there...
--
_______________________________________
John E. Todd <> jt...@island.net
Note: Ensure correct polarity prior to connection.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> On a slight tangent, why is humour spelled humour, while humorous is
> spelled humorous? This has long confused me.
Because otherwise it would be hard to play in Scrabble, since there
are only four u's available and you need to keep one in case you draw
the q?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Bullwinkle: You sure that's the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | only way?
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Rocky: Well, if you're going to be
| a hero, you've got to do
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | stupid things every once in
(650)857-7572 | a while.
Paul Pfalzner
"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:4rcndw...@hpl.hp.com...
> Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> writes:
>
> > On a slight tangent, why is humour spelled humour, while humorous is
> > spelled humorous? This has long confused me.
>
> Because otherwise it would be hard to play in Scrabble, since there
> are only four u's available and you need to keep one in case you draw
> the q?
No doubt. But the spelling is what *English* spelling is. Cf "honour" and
"honorable", - valour/valorous, etc etc.
Not for *Americans* - they simplify everything to the LCD, as it were, like
saying : Outen the dog, and make the door shut.
PaPf
Not at present at any Laboratory.
Donna Richoux
> On 17 Sep 2002 12:01:04 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> > +------------------------------------
> > |Never ascribe to malice that which
> > |can adequately be explained by
> > |stupidity.
>
> You said a mouthful there...
As I learned four months ago, that saying is often called "Hanlon's
Razor," and the Jargon File says it seems to have derived from Robert
*Heinlein* (note similarity) who wrote in 1941, "You have attributed
conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity" in "Logic of
Empire", a science fiction story.
Searching now for fuller context of the Heinlein quote, I find this
excerpt,
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/dreamweaver/encyclomn/encycappend07.html
Encyclopedia Michael Nellis: Appendix 07
DEVIL THEORY:
" -- I would say that you have fallen into the commonest fallacy
of all in dealing with social and economic subjects -- the
'devil theory.'"
"Huh?"
"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result
from stupidity. Colonial slavery is nothing new; it is the
inevitable result of imperial expansion, the automatic result of
an antiquated social structure -- "
"I pointed out the part the banks played in my book."
"No, no, no! You think bankers are scoundrels. They are not. Nor
are company officials, nor patrons, nor the governing classes
back on Earth. Men are constrained by necessity and build up
rationalizations to account for their acts. It is not even
cupidity. Slavery is economically unsound, non-productive, but
men drift into it whenever the circumstances compel it. A
different financial system -- But that's another story."
"I still think it's rooted in human cussedness."
"Not cussedness -- simple stupidity. I can't prove it to you,
but you will learn."
--"Doc" in a conversation with Wingate, Logic Of Empire
(reprinted in the anthology The Green Hills Of Earth, pg 261)
Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
Well, I could, but I think I'd want to credit whoever got it to the
pithier form.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You cannot solve problems with the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |same type of thinking that created
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |them.
| Albert Einstein
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Donna Richoux
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>
> > Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
>
> Well, I could, but I think I'd want to credit whoever got it to the
> pithier form.
How does one measure pith?
The original: "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply
result from stupidity." 11 words.
The modern quote: "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be
explained by stupidity." 12 words.
I have also seen: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be amply
explained by stupidity." 12 words.
I imagine what makes the Heinlein version useless is that the "you have"
makes it very specific and challenging, instead of the more genteel
indirect advice.
Perhaps: "Derived from Robert Heinlein, 1941"?
This is beginning to feel like those Voltaire discussions. Defend to the
death your right to say it, I think it was.
John Smith
>
> grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote
> > frenchies taught me.
>
> Yes, and look what they did to the places couscous comes from - often
> it was much worse than leaving out final esses.
The French don't murder it as much as its original owners do. The
Moroccan (Arabic) word for couscous is "kesksu", or just "seksu". The
Algerians call it "kisksi". So there you are.
\\P. Schultz
Ben Zimmer
>
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> > tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
> >
> > > Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
> >
> > Well, I could, but I think I'd want to credit whoever got it to the
> > pithier form.
>
> How does one measure pith?
>
> The original: "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply
> result from stupidity." 11 words.
>
> The modern quote: "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be
> explained by stupidity." 12 words.
>
> I have also seen: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be amply
> explained by stupidity." 12 words.
>
> I imagine what makes the Heinlein version useless is that the "you have"
> makes it very specific and challenging, instead of the more genteel
> indirect advice.
>
> Perhaps: "Derived from Robert Heinlein, 1941"?
I wonder if there might be an earlier quote out there with "malice" and
not "villainy", since "malice" is a much more common alternative to
"stupidity". Here are a few "malice/stupidity" quotes found online:
"The one invincible thing is a good book; neither malice nor stupidity
can crush it."
--George Moore (Impressions and Opinions, 1891)
"When I thought of the little sallow-faced lad whom I had remembered
years before, of the long and savage cruelty with which he had been
treated in childhood - cruelty none the less real for having been due to
ignorance and stupidity rather than to deliberate malice..."
--Samuel Butler (The Way of All Flesh, 1903)
"Unlike Reginald Sellers, who had a studio in the same building, and
sometimes dropped in to drink her coffee and pour out his troubles, he
did not attribute his nonsuccess to any malice or stupidity on the part
of the public."
--P.G. Wodehouse (The Man Upstairs, 1910)
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[snipped]
> How does one measure pith?
With a Pith-O-Meter, of course.
$4.99 at Wal-Mart pharmacy depts.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Charles Riggs
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On a slight tangent, why is humour spelled humour, while humorous is
>> spelled humorous? This has long confused me.
>
>Because otherwise it would be hard to play in Scrabble, since there
>are only four u's available and you need to keep one in case you draw
>the q?
Damn. Why didn't that occur to me?
Charles
Charles Riggs
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Donna Richoux wrote:
>
>[snipped]
>
>> How does one measure pith?
>
>With a Pith-O-Meter, of course.
>$4.99 at Wal-Mart pharmacy depts.
A popular pithier version, called a Pithscale, can be had for $1.99 at
Drug Fair.
Charles
John Holmes
"Ray" <r...@aic.net.au> wrote in message
news:WpDh9.9$Td2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> Leah <gitte...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5f01e745.02091...@posting.google.com...
> > Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" ... as
> "hugh-mus".
>
> Pronunciation in Australia (well Sydney anyway) varies, but commonly
rhymes
> with 'Thomas'
I've often heard that one, but I say it with both vowels as in 'book'.
What interests me is the variations I've seen in the spelling: houmous,
hommous, hummus etc. I wonder whether that is because the various brands
on the market are made by people of different ethnic origin. Is one the
Lebanese version, one based on Greek, one Turkish (or whatever)? Or are
they just random spellings? The one in my fridge at the moment says
'hommus' and claims to be Greek style.
--
Regards
John
John Todd
I am so pleased to learn of these; I hate that thoupthpoon.
Gopi Sundaram
> As I learned four months ago, that saying is often called "Hanlon's
> Razor," and the Jargon File says it seems to have derived from Robert
> *Heinlein*
Oh dear. I have used that tagline in the past, but where I copied it
from, it was incompetence, not stupidity, and the quote was attributed
to Napoleon. The Internet strikes again!
--
Gopi Sundaram
gop...@cse.sc.edu
Mike Lyle
>
> What interests me is the variations I've seen in the spelling: houmous,
> hommous, hummus etc. I wonder whether that is because the various brands
> on the market are made by people of different ethnic origin. Is one the
> Lebanese version, one based on Greek, one Turkish (or whatever)? Or are
> they just random spellings? The one in my fridge at the moment says
> 'hommus' and claims to be Greek style.
The Turkish *humus* is a borrowing from Arabic, I think, since the
Turkish word for the grain itself is *nohut*. Arabic words which
appear to have -ou- have often reached us through French, or from
regions which use a French version of the Roman alphabet(the French u
won't work in Arabic). The -o- and -u- thing is a result of the
different ways the regions voice the -u- sound after the "I've scalded
my throat with hot tea" H: the Arabic consonants missing from English
influence their following vowels a lot.
I was once taught a Palestinian word for the pasty stuff with tahina,
but have forgotten it. The delicious form fried as rissoles is also
often called "hummus", but is properly named "falafil" -- though I see
Claudia Roden says Egyptian falafel are made with white beans, not
chick-peas.
Mike.
Leah
> DE781 wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > LOL, I can't believe you posted this! Leah & I were talking about the
> > pronunciations of "humus" and "hummus" because I pronounce them both
> > exactly the same: "hum-is", with the short 'u'. Is this incorrect?
>
> M-W and AHD4 (which I checked on the Web) list no pronunciation of
> "humus" (the moss) that doesn't have a "you" sound in it. (AHD4 has
> a second "humus" that it lists as a variant of "hummus.") But I'd
> say that in real life the pronunciation of both comes in so many
> variants that it's hard to say that you are "incorrect." You are
> very much in the minority in pronouncing "humus" as you do, so if
> that's what you and Leah were talking about I'd say that her version
> is the majority version and yours is a less popular variant.
> "Correct" isn't really the issue.
>
I think that Joe's version might well be the majority: at least it is
in Northern NJ...Fontana, how do you say it? Perhaps the short "u"
version is common all over the tri-state area. How do the peeps in
Mass say it, bia?
> Are you guys still unwilling to believe the dictionaries (or was
> that someone else"?
If you'll recall, Joe and I both believed the dictionary - it's just
that he interpreted it in an entirely different way than most people,
including myself. And the people at Merriam Webster. ;)
Leah
> Leah wrote:
> >
> > Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" (as in "
> > a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
> > paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
> > I've always figured this was the British way of pronouncing it (since
> > my family is British but currently lives in America). I know that
> > lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
> > American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
> > pronounce "humus", the dirt?
>
>
> The American way of starting your first sentence is with the pronoun
> "I." A reflexive like "myself" needs a local antecedent. The American
> way of pronouncing "hummus" or "humous" is /'hVm@s/ or /'hUm@s/,
> depending on the crowd one runs with.
So if starting with "myself" isn't the American version, what is it?
Or is it just plain wrong?
Skitt
"My family and I" would have been just fine.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
Ben Zimmer
Yes, the version attributed to Napoleon is popular too (sometimes stated
simply as "Never mistake incompetence for malice"). Some have also
attributed it to Clausewitz or "War and Peace":
http://www.his.com/~z/guestbook/zhurnal13.html
I suspect there may have been various formulations kicking around before
Heinlein. I did a search on the ProQuest Historical Newspapers database
and found a 1937 Wall St Journal column that had something similar:
"In this world much of what the victims believe to be malice is
explicable on the ground of ignorance or incompetence, or a mixture of
both."
("Thinking it Over", Thomas F. Woodlock, WSJ, Dec. 22, 1937)
Ray Heindl
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
>
>> Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
>
> Well, I could, but I think I'd want to credit whoever got it to the
> pithier form.
It was Napoleon, according to <http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A683525>
et al.:
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
incompetence."
'Incompetence' sounds somehow more French than 'stupidity'. And the
BBC couldn't be wrong, could they?
Or maybe it was Oscar Wilde:
"Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by
ignorance." <http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/arnett.html>
Of the sites I saw attributing the quote, Napoleon is hands down the
winner.
--
Ray Heindl
Joe Fineman
> On 17 Sep 2002 12:01:04 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> > +------------------------------------
> > |Never ascribe to malice that which
> > |can adequately be explained by
> > |stupidity.
>
>
> You said a mouthful there...
Yes, but IMO it needs to be complemented with the observation that
some kinds of stupidity are popular because they are helpful in being
mean.
--
--- Joe Fineman j...@TheWorld.com
||: Be careful what you do with your resentment. :||
Donna Richoux
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in
> news:hegnq8...@hpl.hp.com:
>
> > tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
> >
> >> Evan, can you fit some sort of attribution in your footnote?
> >
> > Well, I could, but I think I'd want to credit whoever got it to the
> > pithier form.
>
> It was Napoleon, according to <http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A683525>
> et al.:
> "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
> incompetence."
So, what letter or journal of Napoleon's did they say it is from? They
don't. What do they say the original French was? They don't.
They're just passing on what they heard. Look at this one:
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately
explained by incompetence.
- Napoleon Bonaparte (also attributed to
Mark Twain or Ambrose Bierce).
>
> 'Incompetence' sounds somehow more French than 'stupidity'.
Actually, the Dictionnaire de L'Académie française shows that
"stupidité" has been in French as long as "incompetence," (1600s)
although I can't swear to the subtleties of use.
>And the
> BBC couldn't be wrong, could they?
I heard them be wrong on something the other day, twice.
>
> Or maybe it was Oscar Wilde:
> "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by
> ignorance." <http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/arnett.html>
Oscar Wilde has got to be up there in the Top Four for False
Attributions. Lincoln, Twain, Churchill, Wilde? With Franklin and
Voltaire up there.
> Of the sites I saw attributing the quote, Napoleon is hands down the
> winner.
I'm sad to report that of all the uses of the Web, hunting through "My
Favorite Quotes" pages to see who people think wrote various sayings,
has got to be the biggest waste of time. The errors in attributions are
quite visible because different people claim that different famous
people have uttered the desired words. They also frequently report
different wording.
No, those pages can give you ideas of where to begin looking for real,
but they're useless for declaring a "winner".
I know of two reliable, well-researched quotation references, Xrefer.com
and Bartleby.com. Neither of them turn up a similar sentence when I
search on "malice," and I didn't feel like looking through 300 hits on
"stupidity."
The other thing the Web is good is providing full copies of hundreds or
thousands of old public-domain writings, to verify actual words and
lines of text. I wouldn't be surprised if the complete writings of
Napoleon were on line, but I'd want to know what original French is was
searching for, first.
John Smith
>
> How does one measure pith? <...>
If you can pour it out of a boot, you can measure it by the bootful.
\\P. Schultz
John Smith
>
> So if starting with "myself" isn't the American version, what is it?
> Or is it just plain wrong?
It was formerly wrong. But as with any natural language evolution, its
employment will subject you to the nattering and huffilating of those
who just don't get it.
\\P. Schutz
John Smith
> <...> The delicious form fried as rissoles is also
> often called "hummus", but is properly named "falafil" -- though I see
> Claudia Roden says Egyptian falafel are made with white beans, not
> chick-peas.
And they don't call it hummus, they call it Ta'miyya. But it's just as
good.
\\P. Schultz
Tony Cooper
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3D895755...@sonic.net...
> Donna Richoux wrote:
>
> [snipped]
>
> > How does one measure pith?
>
> With a Pith-O-Meter, of course.
> $4.99 at Wal-Mart pharmacy depts.
Ronco has a battery (not included) powered one called a Pith Up a Rope
advertised on television. Being electrical, it carries a hazard
warning: Never the twine shall meat.
--
Tony Cooper aka: Tony_Co...@Yahoo.com
Provider of Jots & Tittles
Charles Riggs
wrote:
What country do you live in, Gopi? I don't remember seeing cs.sc
before, if that's the clue.
Charles
Gary Vellenzer
> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >
> > How does one measure pith? <...>
>
> If you can pour it out of a boot, you can measure it by the bootful.
>
Gary
Frances Kemmish
The .edu should be the clue - it usually denotes a US educational
institution: in this case the University of South Carolina. Of course,
having the email address doesn't guarantee that he lives there.
Fran
Gopi Sundaram
>> What country do you live in, Gopi? I don't remember seeing cs.sc
>> before, if that's the clue.
>
> The .edu should be the clue - it usually denotes a US educational
> institution: in this case the University of South Carolina. Of course,
> having the email address doesn't guarantee that he lives there.
Indeed. I moved last year from South Carolina to Texas. My alma mater
kept my account alive, because I administer their news server.
Thankfully, I have not lost my native accent, nor replaced the classy
Southern accent I picked up in SC with the dreadful TX drawl.
--
Gopi Sundaram
gop...@cse.sc.edu
Aaron J. Dinkin
> The delicious form fried as rissoles is also often called "hummus", but
> is properly named "falafil" -- though I see Claudia Roden says Egyptian
> falafel are made with white beans, not chick-peas.
I've never seen falafel referred to as "hummus", to my knowledge. In fact,
it was a while before I realized that hummus and falafel were made of the
same stuff.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Richard Fontana
On 19 Sep 2002, Youthful Leah wrote:
> Robert Lieblich <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3D87B015...@Verizon.net>...
> > DE781 wrote:
> >
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > > LOL, I can't believe you posted this! Leah & I were talking about the
> > > pronunciations of "humus" and "hummus" because I pronounce them both
> > > exactly the same: "hum-is", with the short 'u'. Is this incorrect?
> >
> > M-W and AHD4 (which I checked on the Web) list no pronunciation of
> > "humus" (the moss) that doesn't have a "you" sound in it. (AHD4 has
> > a second "humus" that it lists as a variant of "hummus.") But I'd
> > say that in real life the pronunciation of both comes in so many
> > variants that it's hard to say that you are "incorrect." You are
> > very much in the minority in pronouncing "humus" as you do, so if
> > that's what you and Leah were talking about I'd say that her version
> > is the majority version and yours is a less popular variant.
> > "Correct" isn't really the issue.
> >
>
> I think that Joe's version might well be the majority: at least it is
> in Northern NJ...Fontana, how do you say it? Perhaps the short "u"
> version is common all over the tri-state area.
Of what, hummus or humus? "Hummus", the food, is always /hV m@s/ for me
-- that's the 'short u', first syllable like "hum". "Humus" is, I have to
confess, not a word I say all that often, perhaps because I am not from
the Garden State, but the only pronunciation I'd ever use is /hju m@s/,
which is "hyoo-muss".
If Young Joey is saying that for him "hummus" and "humus" are homophones,
I can tell you that that is not common at all, Tri-State Area or
otherwise. But again I don't think "humus" is a word that most people use
that often. (I suppose that's also true of "hummus", but I happen to like
to eat hummus.)
Many older New York speakers, by the way, would say "humus" as /ju m@s/,
without pronouncing the 'h'.
GrapeApe
>
>> is properly named "falafil" -- though I see Claudia Roden says Egyptian
>
>> falafel are made with white beans, not chick-peas.
>
>I've never seen falafel referred to as "hummus", to my knowledge. In fact,
>
>it was a while before I realized that hummus and falafel were made of the
>
>same stuff.
I always liked it when Falafel would sing that jingle.
N-E-S-T-L-E-S
Nestles makes the very best
Choc
late
John Smith
> <...>
> >I've never seen falafel referred to as "hummus", to my knowledge. In fact,
> >
> >it was a while before I realized that hummus and falafel were made of the
> >
> >same stuff.
>
> I always liked it when Falafel would sing that jingle.
>
> N-E-S-T-L-E-S
> Nestles makes the very best
>
> Choc
>
> late
All except the last two syllables were sung by Danny O'Day. And nobody
called the dog Falafel except maybe the Japanese viewers.
\\P. Schultz
R H Draney
> "Ray" <r...@aic.net.au> wrote in message
> news:WpDh9.9$Td2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>>
>> Pronunciation in Australia (well Sydney anyway) varies, but
>> commonly
> rhymes
>> with 'Thomas'
>
> What interests me is the variations I've seen in the spelling:
> houmous, hommous, hummus etc. I wonder whether that is because the
> various brands on the market are made by people of different
> ethnic origin. Is one the Lebanese version, one based on Greek,
> one Turkish (or whatever)? Or are they just random spellings? The
> one in my fridge at the moment says 'hommus' and claims to be
> Greek style.
In the wake of this discussion, this story showed up on Reuters (note
the problem came from the written label):
http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=humannews&StoryID=1483341
Alan Jones
"GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
news:20020917183047...@mb-mo.aol.com...
> >For "hummus" I say "hum us" as in "hum us a tune." That's the
> >standard US pronunciation as far as I know.
> >
> >For "humus" I say "hyoo-mus" and have always heard it so
> >pronounced.
>
> That is the usage of this merkin.
And of this Brit.
Alan Jones
GrapeApe
>>
>> N-E-S-T-L-E-S
>> Nestles makes the very best
>>
>> Choc
>>
>> late
>
>All except the last two syllables were sung by Danny O'Day. And nobody
>called the dog Falafel except maybe the Japanese viewers.
What are you trying to do? Make me feel awful?
Danny may have been Irish, but the dog was Italian.
Yusuf B Gursey
: "N.S.D" wrote:
:>
:><...> I have
:> always pronounced it the Hebrew way (which is probably the same or
:> similar to the Arabic way) "choo-moose", where "ch" is the gutteral
:> sound we don't have in English. <...>
: I think the ordinary Israeli Hebrew pronunciation is about as far from
: the original as any of the English pronunciations is.
: Arabic speakers pronounce the initial phoneme as a voiceless glottal
ratehr voiceless pharyngeal fricative. the final s is an emphatic
(phryngealized) s .
standard arabic has HimmaS but it much more commonly known in the
colloquial HummuS (in unpointed scritp identically written)
: fricative -- sort of a throaty "h". I understand that some elderly
: Israelis of oriental (e.g. Yemeni) background may say it that way too.
: Also, the vowels are shorter than "moose" -- more like the oo in book.
: And the "m" is held for two beats, since in Arabic (like Spanish and
: Italian), consonant length is phonemic. And the final sound is a
: velarized "s", analogous to Hebrew tsadi.
the non-emphatic affricate is a modern israeli rendition, based on
ashkenazi.
: In fact, in standard Arabic, "hummus" just means chickpeas, and is
: cognate with Hebrew "khimtsa".
this would be teh modern israeli pronounciation of the cognate phonemes of
arabic.
: At home, we call it HEW-mis. But then, we call the futon a FEWT-n.
: \\P. Schultz
Yusuf B Gursey
: "Ray" <r...@aic.net.au> wrote in message
: news:WpDh9.9$Td2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
:> Leah <gitte...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
:> news:5f01e745.02091...@posting.google.com...
:> > Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" ... as
:> "hugh-mus".
:>
:> Pronunciation in Australia (well Sydney anyway) varies, but commonly
: rhymes
:> with 'Thomas'
: I've often heard that one, but I say it with both vowels as in 'book'.
vowles in the vicinity of pharyngeals tend to vary in quality a little in
arabic, some of the variation in romaniztaion is die to this. ou may be
where french is widely used (such as lebanon), though a greek filter may
also be resposible (see below).
: What interests me is the variations I've seen in the spelling: houmous,
: hommous, hummus etc. I wonder whether that is because the various brands
: on the market are made by people of different ethnic origin. Is one the
: Lebanese version, one based on Greek, one Turkish (or whatever)? Or are
: they just random spellings? The one in my fridge at the moment says
: 'hommus' and claims to be Greek style.
modern greek does not have [h] .
: --
: Regards
: John
Yusuf B Gursey
: "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message news:<amc8t0$pvo$2...@perki.connect.com.au>...
:> "Ray" <r...@aic.net.au> wrote in message
:> news:WpDh9.9$Td2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
: [...]
:>
:> What interests me is the variations I've seen in the spelling: houmous,
:> hommous, hummus etc. I wonder whether that is because the various brands
:> on the market are made by people of different ethnic origin. Is one the
:> Lebanese version, one based on Greek, one Turkish (or whatever)? Or are
:> they just random spellings? The one in my fridge at the moment says
:> 'hommus' and claims to be Greek style.
: The Turkish *humus* is a borrowing from Arabic, I think, since the
yes (via colloquial arabic, ratehr than teh much more common literary
route). in turkish, just for the dish.
: Turkish word for the grain itself is *nohut*. Arabic words which
yes. from persian noxu:d .
roasted chickpeas is leblebi (< `ar. labla:biyy , though one source claims
a persian origin).
one won't expect a turkic word for it, since it seems to be a middle
eastern rather than a central asian plant.
: appear to have -ou- have often reached us through French, or from
John Smith
>
> John Smith <jsm...@company.com> wrote: <...>
> : Arabic speakers pronounce the initial phoneme as a voiceless glottal
>
> ratehr voiceless pharyngeal fricative. the final s is an emphatic
> (phryngealized) s .
Velarized.
> <...> And the final sound is a
> : velarized "s", analogous to Hebrew tsadi.
>
> the non-emphatic affricate is a modern israeli rendition, based on
> ashkenazi.
So, I guess when SS. Cyril and Methodius employed that Hebrew letter for
the "ts" sound in Slavic languages in the 9th century, it was because
they had been hanging out with Ashkenazis.
> : In fact, in standard Arabic, "hummus" just means chickpeas, and is
> : cognate with Hebrew "khimtsa".
>
> this would be teh modern israeli pronounciation of the cognate phonemes of
> arabic.
Not just cognate phonemes. The cognate word itself. Khimtsa is also
Aramaic, and the root is productive in Hebrew.
\\P. Schultz
John Smith
>
> John Holmes <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote:
>> <...> The one in my fridge at the moment says
>> 'hommus' and claims to be Greek style.
>
> modern greek does not have [h] .
But they still make hummus, and pronounce it rather as the Israelis do.
At the end of a Greek cooking show on U.S. TV, the cook/hostess urged
the viewers to tune in again next week "when we will be making a typical
Greek appetizer called 'khummus betakhina'!"
\\P. Schultz
Yusuf B Gursey
which is a more accurate transcription of the way it woudl be pronounced
in greece.
: \\P. Schultz
Yusuf B Gursey
: Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
:>
:> John Smith <jsm...@company.com> wrote: <...>
:> : Arabic speakers pronounce the initial phoneme as a voiceless glottal
:>
:> ratehr voiceless pharyngeal fricative. the final s is an emphatic
:> (phryngealized) s .
: Velarized.
the accepted description is pharyngealization.
:> <...> And the final sound is a
:> : velarized "s", analogous to Hebrew tsadi.
:>
:> the non-emphatic affricate is a modern israeli rendition, based on
:> ashkenazi.
: So, I guess when SS. Cyril and Methodius employed that Hebrew letter for
: the "ts" sound in Slavic languages in the 9th century, it was because
: they had been hanging out with Ashkenazis.
well, sort of. the affricated pronounciation (though emphasis may have
been present) is thought to have been found in the eastern aramaic of the
time and earlier (iranian scripts also based the sounds for *ch* and *ts*
on aramaic tsade). cyril and methodius learned hebrew from jews in what is
now the ukraine and crimea. the jews there at the time had contact and
strong ties with iraqi / baylonian jews who probably spoke or were
influenced by the aramaic dialect of the area. there is a recent thread in
sci.lang (quoting also earlier threads) and also an explanation why
emphatic S may have sounded like an africate to those not familiar with
the sound.
:> : In fact, in standard Arabic, "hummus" just means chickpeas, and is
:> : cognate with Hebrew "khimtsa".
:>
:> this would be teh modern israeli pronounciation of the cognate phonemes of
:> arabic.
: Not just cognate phonemes. The cognate word itself. Khimtsa is also
: Aramaic, and the root is productive in Hebrew.
I was talking about pronounciation.
: \\P. Schultz
Yusuf B Gursey
: :>
: :> the non-emphatic affricate is a modern israeli rendition, based on
: :> ashkenazi.
: : So, I guess when SS. Cyril and Methodius employed that Hebrew letter for
: : the "ts" sound in Slavic languages in the 9th century, it was because
: : they had been hanging out with Ashkenazis.
: well, sort of. the affricated pronounciation (though emphasis may have
: been present) is thought to have been found in the eastern aramaic of the
: time and earlier (iranian scripts also based the sounds for *ch* and *ts*
: on aramaic tsade). cyril and methodius learned hebrew from jews in what is
: now the ukraine and crimea. the jews there at the time had contact and
: strong ties with iraqi / baylonian jews who probably spoke or were
: influenced by the aramaic dialect of the area. there is a recent thread in
: sci.lang (quoting also earlier threads) and also an explanation why
: emphatic S may have sounded like an africate to those not familiar with
: the sound.
try rolling the screen up and down around this:
Avi Jacobson
> "Avi Jacobson" <av...@pacbell.net> writes:
>
> > Correct. Standard Israeli Hebrew has lost the pharyngals `ayin and
> > Het and replaces them with glottal stop (or null) and voiceless
> > uvular fricative respectively.
>
> Uvular, not velar?
Indeed. Use of velar [x] as opposed to uvular [X] is the hallmark of
Russian immigrants.
amsa...@gmail.com
> Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" (as in "
> a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
> paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
> I've always figured this was the British way of pronouncing it (since
> my family is British but currently lives in America). I know that
> lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
> American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
> pronounce "humus", the dirt?
It is actually pronounced Hoo-moos. I lived four years in Turkey and that's how it is pronounced there. It is a very famous appetizer served with turkish pita bread. It is made of chickpeas, lemon juice, garlic, salt, and tahin that is pureed. Served with melted butter or olive oil in a well and sprinkled with red pepper and parsley as a garnish. I hate the way Americans pronounce it hum-mus!
Very delicious!
Ian Noble
>On Monday, September 16, 2002 at 1:45:04 PM UTC-6, Leah wrote:
>> Myself and my family have always pronounced the word "hummus" (as in "
>> a paste of pureed chickpeas usually mixed with sesame oil or sesame
>> paste and eaten as a dip or sandwich spread" - MW) as "hugh-mus".
>> I've always figured this was the British way of pronouncing it (since
>> my family is British but currently lives in America). I know that
>> lots of people pronounce it "hum-mus", and have assumed this is the
>> American way of pronouncing it - am I correct? And how does one
>> pronounce "humus", the dirt?
>
>It is actually pronounced Hoo-moos. I lived four years in Turkey and that's how it is pronounced there.
nor there. Words tend to lose all rights to pronunciation, plurals and
so forth when they jump language boundaries.
Another current, farily recent example in the UK is "broschetta",
which I hear pronounced all the time as though the "c" is silent (i.e
after the German). And the number of "incorrect" plurals I hear is
practically endless (and that's only from the languages I'm vaguely
familiar with!).
On the other hand, and to be fair... ...that's how I always pronounce
hummus as well. And it's also what I tend to hear used..
(And for the OP... humus? That one IS "HEW-muss")
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks. Hants.)
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Derek Turner
> It is actually pronounced Hoo-moos. I lived four years in Turkey and
> that's how it is pronounced there. It is a very famous appetizer served
> with turkish pita bread. It is made of chickpeas, lemon juice, garlic,
> salt, and tahin that is pureed. Served with melted butter or olive oil
> in a well and sprinkled with red pepper and parsley as a garnish. I hate
> the way Americans pronounce it hum-mus!
> Very delicious!
reflects the Greek pronunciation.
Adam Funk
labels in the UK, but I won't claim they are all BrE spellings --- I'm
sure some of them are varying transcriptions from Greek, Turkish, &
perhaps even other languages associated with similar ranges of foods.
As I sometimes joke, "Greek & Turkish food are very similar & both
good, but don't tell them that because they don't like each other."
But as my Turkish colleague said, "We're fine --- it's just out
politicians who don't like each other." (IME, Lebanese food is also
similar & good.)
Anyway, Greek only has a couple of vowel sounds with a fantastic range
of spellings for them.
--
Unit tests are like the boy who cried wolf.
Peter T. Daniels
for "hummus" in Google or GG and decided to be helpful by telling someone
how to pronounce the word. If they were looking at GG, they would have seen
that there were 73 replies in the thread, some at least of which will have
answered the original question.
Mike Barnes
*hummus* /"hUm<schwa>s/ n. Also hoummos, h(o)umous.
There are surely other spellings and pronunciations.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
snide...@gmail.com
>
> NB gmail. According to the majority hypothesis here, this poster was searching
> for "hummus" in Google or GG and decided to be helpful by telling someone
> how to pronounce the word. If they were looking at GG, they would have seen
> that there were 73 replies in the thread, some at least of which will have
> answered the original question.
went directly to the individual post. A general GG search would likely
go to the thread view; I'm not sure if a regular Google search would
go to thread or article view; I'm inclined to think the latter,
but I'm working off of faded memories, there, because search results
will usually pick up a mirror site archive rather than Google's own copy.
Another possibility is that the guilty party was reading something
that included a link to an article, clicked on the link to get to GG,
and then responded. Something like
<URL:https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/rs4pWgEp8hA/Mups09SmGsAJ>
/dps
Robert Bannister
"hyoomus" /hju:m@/ for the dirt. Also "exhyoom", to remove from the earth.
--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> On 2015-06-12, Derek Turner wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 08:42:40 -0700, amsahin64 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It is actually pronounced Hoo-moos. I lived four years in Turkey and
>>> that's how it is pronounced there. It is a very famous appetizer served
>>> with turkish pita bread. It is made of chickpeas, lemon juice, garlic,
>>> salt, and tahin that is pureed. Served with melted butter or olive oil
>>> in a well and sprinkled with red pepper and parsley as a garnish. I hate
>>> the way Americans pronounce it hum-mus!
>>> Very delicious!
>>
>> FWIW in BrE its spelled Houmos and pronounced hoomos, which, I believe,
>> reflects the Greek pronunciation.
>
> I've seen a couple of different spellings in Roman letters on menus &
> labels in the UK, but I won't claim they are all BrE spellings --- I'm
> sure some of them are varying transcriptions from Greek, Turkish, &
> perhaps even other languages associated with similar ranges of foods.
>
> As I sometimes joke, "Greek & Turkish food are very similar & both
> good, but don't tell them that because they don't like each other."
> But as my Turkish colleague said, "We're fine --- it's just out
> politicians who don't like each other." (IME, Lebanese food is also
> similar & good.)
prices. However, when I was in Greece in 1963 and in Turkey in 1964
(eating as cheaply as possible) it was clear that Turkish cooking was a
_lot_ better cooked and served.
> Anyway, Greek only has a couple of vowel sounds with a fantastic range
> of spellings for them.
breathings and the circumflex accent more recently, they've still got
plenty of ways left to represent /i/: ι, ει, οι, η, υ, with or without
acute accent, and probably others I've forgotten (there may be υι as
well).
However, they have no /h/, so the /h/ that we use in "hummus" doesn't
come from the Greek. I think it probably comes from the Turkish.
Actually I think I usually use a /x/ rather than /h/ as I first
encountered hummus in Israel.
--
athel
Adam Funk
> On 2015-06-12 19:41:52 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>> On 2015-06-12, Derek Turner wrote:
>>> FWIW in BrE its spelled Houmos and pronounced hoomos, which, I believe,
>>> reflects the Greek pronunciation.
>>
>> I've seen a couple of different spellings in Roman letters on menus &
>> labels in the UK, but I won't claim they are all BrE spellings --- I'm
>> sure some of them are varying transcriptions from Greek, Turkish, &
>> perhaps even other languages associated with similar ranges of foods.
>>
>> As I sometimes joke, "Greek & Turkish food are very similar & both
>> good, but don't tell them that because they don't like each other."
>> But as my Turkish colleague said, "We're fine --- it's just out
>> politicians who don't like each other." (IME, Lebanese food is also
>> similar & good.)
>
> I think that's true if you're talking about places above rock-bottom
> prices. However, when I was in Greece in 1963 and in Turkey in 1964
> (eating as cheaply as possible) it was clear that Turkish cooking was a
> _lot_ better cooked and served.
speaking mainly from experience of Greek, Turkish, & Lebanese food
served in western Europe. My Turkish colleague didn't argue with the
claim that the cuisines are similar.
>> Anyway, Greek only has a couple of vowel sounds with a fantastic range
>> of spellings for them.
>
> Yes, although they scrapped the ι subscript a long time ago, and
> breathings and the circumflex accent more recently, they've still got
> plenty of ways left to represent /i/: ι, ει, οι, η, υ, with or without
> acute accent, and probably others I've forgotten (there may be υι as
> well).
>
> However, they have no /h/, so the /h/ that we use in "hummus" doesn't
> come from the Greek. I think it probably comes from the Turkish.
> Actually I think I usually use a /x/ rather than /h/ as I first
> encountered hummus in Israel.
come from an Israeli restaurant & take-away in Paris (Chez Hannah, rue
des Rosiers, in the Marais). I don't know if it's really the best in
the world, but IMO their falafel sandwiches & platters are better than
the ones at l'As du Falafel nearby (& one of my Parisian friends some
years ago also led us past le Roi du Falafel on the same street).
--
A book lying idle on a shelf is wasted ammunition.
--- Henry Miller
Adam Funk
>> On 2015-06-12, Derek Turner wrote:
>>> FWIW in BrE its spelled Houmos and pronounced hoomos, which, I believe,
>>> reflects the Greek pronunciation.
>>
>> I've seen a couple of different spellings in Roman letters on menus &
>> labels in the UK, but I won't claim they are all BrE spellings --- I'm
>> sure some of them are varying transcriptions from Greek, Turkish, &
>> perhaps even other languages associated with similar ranges of foods.
> come from the Greek. I think it probably comes from the Turkish.
> Actually I think I usually use a /x/ rather than /h/ as I first
> encountered hummus in Israel.
Hummus: they love it in Israel, so shouldn't it be in
Category:Israeli cuisine? Or is it a purely Arab food that the
Zionists have illegally occupied?[2] After a related skirmish on
Za'atar, the ingredients were listed in alphabetical order, but was
this all part of a shrewd Zionist plot? Don't be silly, came the
response: and anybody who removes the Hebrew name from the first
sentence is a racist vandal.[3] Meanwhile, back at Hummus, an
attempt is made to replace a mention that the Oxford English
Dictionary says that the word entered English via Turkish with a
reference to the Greek name for the dish. Finally, Tabbouleh saw
action, this time mercifully free of Arab-Israeli connotations;
instead, the question was: can we call this dish a part of
Levantine cuisine, or is the very term "Levantine" a European
colonial plot to divide the great Arab nation?[4]
In the mean time, another attempt is made to expunge the Turks from
description of the traditional Greek (or maybe Arab) dish of pita
(or is it pitta?), while controversy bubbles as to whether a photo
of an Israeli falafel house constitutes "Zionism".
Conclusion: Tasty snacks in the Middle East are hilariously
politicized. As of January 2015, the talk page for Hummus states:
"The article Hummus, along with other articles relating to the
Arab–Israeli conflict, is currently subject to active arbitration
remedies".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars#Ethnic_and_national_feuds>
--
But the government always tries to coax well-known writers into the
Establishment; it makes them feel educated. [Robert Graves]
Steve Hayes
wrote:
> Conclusion: Tasty snacks in the Middle East are hilariously
> politicized. As of January 2015, the talk page for Hummus states:
> "The article Hummus, along with other articles relating to the
> Arab–Israeli conflict, is currently subject to active arbitration
> remedies".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Adam Funk
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:36:01 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Conclusion: Tasty snacks in the Middle East are hilariously
>> politicized. As of January 2015, the talk page for Hummus states:
>> "The article Hummus, along with other articles relating to the
>> Arab–Israeli conflict, is currently subject to active arbitration
>> remedies".
>
> cf Turkish/Greek coffee and Turkish/Greek delight.
--
Men, there is no sacrifice greater than someone else's.
--- Skipper
Peter T. Daniels
> I just came across this amusing thing:
>
> Hummus: they love it in Israel, so shouldn't it be in
> Category:Israeli cuisine? Or is it a purely Arab food that the
> Zionists have illegally occupied?[2] After a related skirmish on
> Za'atar, the ingredients were listed in alphabetical order,
The most interesting item I had in Israel the last time was a bacon cheeseburger
-- I told my host I'd been to McDonalds the day before I left because I knew
I'd be bacon-cheeseburger-less for almost a week, so he took me to one of
his favorite restaurants in Haifa, for a sit-down lunch.
Adam Funk
> On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 5:45:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> I just came across this amusing thing:
>>
>> Hummus: they love it in Israel, so shouldn't it be in
>> Category:Israeli cuisine? Or is it a purely Arab food that the
>> Zionists have illegally occupied?[2] After a related skirmish on
>> Za'atar, the ingredients were listed in alphabetical order,
>
> (What's Za'atar?)
oregano family.
--
Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided men. --- Martin Luther King, Jr.
Will Parsons
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:36:01 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Conclusion: Tasty snacks in the Middle East are hilariously
>> politicized. As of January 2015, the talk page for Hummus states:
>> "The article Hummus, along with other articles relating to the
>> Arab–Israeli conflict, is currently subject to active arbitration
>> remedies".
>
> cf Turkish/Greek coffee and Turkish/Greek delight.
delight is particularly easy to come across around here).
--
Will
Athel Cornish-Bowden
look for loukoumi.
Anyway, my experience is that the Turkish versions are the real thing
and the Greek versions are the imitations.
--
athel
Will Parsons
--
Will
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
> The most interesting item I had in Israel the last time was a bacon
> cheeseburger -- I told my host I'd been to McDonalds the day before
> I left because I knew I'd be bacon-cheeseburger-less for almost a
> week, so he took me to one of his favorite restaurants in Haifa,
> for a sit-down lunch.
>
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Peter T. Daniels
> Peter T. Daniels:
> > The most interesting item I had in Israel the last time was a bacon
> > cheeseburger -- I told my host I'd been to McDonalds the day before
> > I left because I knew I'd be bacon-cheeseburger-less for almost a
> > week, so he took me to one of his favorite restaurants in Haifa,
> > for a sit-down lunch.
> >
> Fascinating, absolutely fascinating!
Jewish practice.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> a sociopathic antisemite wrote:
>> Boooring drooler PeteY "Howdy Doody" Daniels drooled: [ corrected ]
>>> The most interesting item I had in Israel the last time was a bacon
>>> cheeseburger -- I told my host I'd been to McDonalds the day before
>>> I left because I knew I'd be bacon-cheeseburger-less for almost a
>>> week, so he took me to one of his favorite restaurants in Haifa,
>>> for a sit-down lunch.
>>>
>> Fascinating, absolutely fascinating!
>
> Yeah, antisemites do tend to be fascincated
>
> by anything having to do with Jewish practice.
>
You mean like having to sit on a fellow faggot's lap (if you know what I
mean) to get a gratis cheeseburger? What an odd Jewish practice.
CDB
you retch and say "feh" between bites? Finish your coffee in the mikveh?
Robert Bannister
> Conclusion: Tasty snacks in the Middle East are hilariously
> politicized. As of January 2015, the talk page for Hummus states:
> "The article Hummus, along with other articles relating to the
> Arab–Israeli conflict, is currently subject to active arbitration
> remedies".
the article is very amusing. Since the Ottoman Empire covered the entire
area... oh, well, it's not worth joining in other people's wars.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
pensive hamster
eat pork, plus they don't mix meat and dairy. So it is worth noting
that McDonalds apparently consider it economically viable to offer
bacon cheeseburgers in Haifa, plus they presumably aren't
picketed (on non-Sabbath days, obviously) by indignant
fundamentalists.
So it's say about 4.5/10 on a scale of interesting. If the Pope
were to issue an encyclical saying that David Icke was completely
right in everything he said, that would be 9.5/10 interesting.
Tony Cooper
McDonald's the day *before* he left for Israel thinking he wouldn't
have that type of food in Israel.
However, his host surprised him and took him to a restaurant in Haifa
for a "sit-down lunch" where he had a bacon cheeseburger. It was not
a McDonald's, though.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL