Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
You've Been Verbed
139 views
Skip to first unread message
MC
Dec 18, 2011, 9:36:17 AM12/18/11
to
This came up in another thread. I found the article quote here of
interest. You may too.
+++
Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going on ...
From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they parent. Critics
used to review plays: now they critique them. Athletes podium,
executives flipchart, and almost everybody Googles. Watch out--you've
been verbed.
The English language is in a constant state of flux. New words are
formed and old ones fall into disuse. But no trend has been more
obtrusive in recent years than the changing of nouns into verbs. "Trend"
itself (now used as a verb meaning "change or develop in a general
direction", as in "unemployment has been trending upwards") is further
evidence of--sorry, evidences--this phenomenon.
It is found in all areas of life, though some are more productive than
others. Financiers are never lacking in ingenuity: Investec recently
forecast that "Better-balanced autumn ranges should allow Marks &
Spencer to anniversary tougher comparisons"--whatever that may mean.
Politics has come up with "to handbag" (a tribute to Lady Thatcher) and
"to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a colleague making a
parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
New technology is fertile ground, partly because it is constantly
seeking names for things which did not previously exist: we "text" from
our mobiles, "bookmark" websites, "inbox" our e-mail contacts and
"friend" our acquaintances on Facebook --only, in some cases, to
"defriend" them later. "Blog" had scarcely arrived as a noun before it
was adopted as a verb, first intransitive and then transitive (an
American friend boasts that he "blogged hand-wringers" about a subject
that upset him). Conversely, verbs such as "twitter" and "tweet" have
been transformed into nouns--though this process is far less common.
Sport is another ready source. "Rollerblade", "skateboard", "snowboard"
and "zorb" have all graduated from names of equipment to actual
activities. Football referees used to book players, or send them off:
now they "card" them. Racing drivers "pit", golfers "par" and coastal
divers "tombstone".
+++
Full article here: http://snipurl.com/219wr1r [moreintelligentlife_com]
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
interest. You may too.
+++
Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going on ...
From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they parent. Critics
used to review plays: now they critique them. Athletes podium,
executives flipchart, and almost everybody Googles. Watch out--you've
been verbed.
The English language is in a constant state of flux. New words are
formed and old ones fall into disuse. But no trend has been more
obtrusive in recent years than the changing of nouns into verbs. "Trend"
itself (now used as a verb meaning "change or develop in a general
direction", as in "unemployment has been trending upwards") is further
evidence of--sorry, evidences--this phenomenon.
It is found in all areas of life, though some are more productive than
others. Financiers are never lacking in ingenuity: Investec recently
forecast that "Better-balanced autumn ranges should allow Marks &
Spencer to anniversary tougher comparisons"--whatever that may mean.
Politics has come up with "to handbag" (a tribute to Lady Thatcher) and
"to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a colleague making a
parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
New technology is fertile ground, partly because it is constantly
seeking names for things which did not previously exist: we "text" from
our mobiles, "bookmark" websites, "inbox" our e-mail contacts and
"friend" our acquaintances on Facebook --only, in some cases, to
"defriend" them later. "Blog" had scarcely arrived as a noun before it
was adopted as a verb, first intransitive and then transitive (an
American friend boasts that he "blogged hand-wringers" about a subject
that upset him). Conversely, verbs such as "twitter" and "tweet" have
been transformed into nouns--though this process is far less common.
Sport is another ready source. "Rollerblade", "skateboard", "snowboard"
and "zorb" have all graduated from names of equipment to actual
activities. Football referees used to book players, or send them off:
now they "card" them. Racing drivers "pit", golfers "par" and coastal
divers "tombstone".
+++
Full article here: http://snipurl.com/219wr1r [moreintelligentlife_com]
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
Snidely
Dec 18, 2011, 3:24:20 PM12/18/11
to
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> scribbled something like ...
> This came up in another thread. I found the article quote here of
> interest. You may too.
>
> +++
>
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
> are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going on ...
>
> From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
>
Some of these termings have preexistenced longer than I've usenetted, much
less webbed.
/dps
> This came up in another thread. I found the article quote here of
> interest. You may too.
>
> +++
>
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
> are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going on ...
>
> From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
>
> Critics
> used to review plays: now they critique them.
> [...] Racing drivers "pit", golfers "par"
> used to review plays: now they critique them.
Some of these termings have preexistenced longer than I've usenetted, much
less webbed.
/dps
Eric Walker
Dec 18, 2011, 6:24:38 PM12/18/11
to
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:36:17 -0500, MC wrote:
[...]
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
> are turning into verbs. . . .
The impression I am left with is that both the cited article author and
the OP are not happy with that supposed trend. (I say "supposed" because
there is no evidence presented, or even hinted at, other than auctorial
assertion, that the degree of contemporary "verbing" is any greater than
in past.)
But, be that as it may, "verbing" is neither good nor bad in itself: the
test is whether the result seems to fill a legitimate need or whether it
is just laziness. A "legitimate" need would be the ability to say
something in a word that otherwise might take a phrase, especially a
lengthy phrase. "Parent" is a lazy word: there are many extant ways to
say what it says, such as the already noted "raise". "Trend" is another:
"trending upward" is actually notably _more_ cumbersome than "rising".
On the other hand, "doughnut", in the sense described in the article,
seems a most useful coinage.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
[...]
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of nouns
The impression I am left with is that both the cited article author and
the OP are not happy with that supposed trend. (I say "supposed" because
there is no evidence presented, or even hinted at, other than auctorial
assertion, that the degree of contemporary "verbing" is any greater than
in past.)
But, be that as it may, "verbing" is neither good nor bad in itself: the
test is whether the result seems to fill a legitimate need or whether it
is just laziness. A "legitimate" need would be the ability to say
something in a word that otherwise might take a phrase, especially a
lengthy phrase. "Parent" is a lazy word: there are many extant ways to
say what it says, such as the already noted "raise". "Trend" is another:
"trending upward" is actually notably _more_ cumbersome than "rising".
On the other hand, "doughnut", in the sense described in the article,
seems a most useful coinage.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
MC
Dec 18, 2011, 6:29:51 PM12/18/11
to
In article <jclsnm$its$1...@dont-email.me>,
I'm the OP and I'm neutral-to-accepting. Yes, these neo-verbs may be
jarring in early encounters, but I see them as just one more example of
the healthy flexibility of English - and I'm mindful of the fact that
many of them have been around for centuries, and no longer sound
jarring.
jarring in early encounters, but I see them as just one more example of
the healthy flexibility of English - and I'm mindful of the fact that
many of them have been around for centuries, and no longer sound
jarring.
Leslie Danks
Dec 18, 2011, 6:38:33 PM12/18/11
to
has only a metaphorical association with doughnuts. A more usual example of
verbing is "tasking" for "giving someone a task". "Doughnutting" benefits
from a certain creativity, and it is amusing, but is it really any better
than "surrounding"?
--
Les
(BrE)
Message has been deleted
Eric Walker
Dec 18, 2011, 6:57:55 PM12/18/11
to
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:38:33 +0100, Leslie Danks wrote:
[...]
> "Doughnutting" benefits from a certain creativity, and it is amusing,
> but is it really any better than "surrounding"?
I think so, provided I am correct in understanding that it is used for
"surrounding" only in a very particular setting and circumstances, as
described in the article.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
[...]
> "Doughnutting" benefits from a certain creativity, and it is amusing,
> but is it really any better than "surrounding"?
"surrounding" only in a very particular setting and circumstances, as
described in the article.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Evan Kirshenbaum
Dec 19, 2011, 1:54:34 AM12/19/11
to
MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
> This came up in another thread. I found the article quote here of
> interest. You may too.
>
> +++
>
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of
> nouns are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going
> on ...
>
> From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
>
> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
> parent.
Since 1663, according to the OED, in a somewhat different sense.
> This came up in another thread. I found the article quote here of
> interest. You may too.
>
> +++
>
> Friending, trending, even evidencing and statementing... plenty of
> nouns are turning into verbs. Anthony Gardner works out what's going
> on ...
>
> From INTELLIGENT LIFE Magazine, Winter 2010
>
> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
> parent.
Earlier, they fathered [1483, in a different sense ca. 1400], sired
[bef. 1616], and mothered [bef. 1425 in the sense analagous to "sire",
1825 in the modern sense] them.
But the old thing they did that's pretty much equivalent to today's
"parent" is "nurse" (ca. 1330 in the sense of "to rear or bring up; to
nurture"). Around the same vintage, but cited slightly later than the
noun (in the sense of "wet nurse").
> Critics used to review plays: now they critique them.
> Athletes podium, executives flipchart, and almost everybody
> Googles. Watch out--you've been verbed.
>
> The English language is in a constant state of flux. New words are
> formed and old ones fall into disuse. But no trend has been more
> obtrusive in recent years than the changing of nouns into
> verbs.
clear which form came first. It's probably a fair bet that "water"
was a thing before before gardeners started "watering" plants, but the
noun and verb are both first cited to the same ca. 897 work. "Fish"
are cited to ca. 825, "fishing" to ca. 888. "Sleep" and "sleeping"
are cited to the same ca. 825 work.
Many nouns were around for a fair bit before becoming verbed. Hands
are first cited to the ninth century; people started handing things to
one another in the seventeenth. Bows were used by musicians in the
sixteenth century; they started bowing in the nineteenth. Hammers go
back to Old English, hammering to the fifteenth century. Ships have
been around since the eighth century, shipping things since the
fourteenth. People started stoning others around 1200, at least
several centuries after the things they threw were called "stones".
Etc.
> "Trend" itself (now used as a verb meaning "change or develop in a
> general direction", as in "unemployment has been trending upwards")
> is further evidence of--sorry, evidences--this phenomenon.
noun to 1884. The more literal sense of a river trending in a
particular direction is cited as a verb to 1598, as a noun to 1777.
There are verb sense back to Old English. The earliest noun sense (a
bend in a stream) isn't until ca. 1630.
If they're going to rant about nouns becoming verbs, they should at
least make sure the nounse in question didn't start out as verbs.
> It is found in all areas of life, though some are more productive
> than others. Financiers are never lacking in ingenuity: Investec
> recently forecast that "Better-balanced autumn ranges should allow
> Marks & Spencer to anniversary tougher comparisons"--whatever that
> may mean. Politics has come up with "to handbag" (a tribute to Lady
> Thatcher) and "to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a
> colleague making a parliamentary announcement, so that it is not
> clear to television viewers that the chamber is practically
> deserted.
>
> New technology is fertile ground, partly because it is constantly
> seeking names for things which did not previously exist: we "text"
> from our mobiles, "bookmark" websites, "inbox" our e-mail contacts
> and "friend" our acquaintances on Facebook --only, in some cases, to
> "defriend" them later. "Blog" had scarcely arrived as a noun before
> it was adopted as a verb,
messages by 1919.
> first intransitive and then transitive (an American friend boasts
> that he "blogged hand-wringers" about a subject that upset
> him). Conversely, verbs such as "twitter" and "tweet" have been
> transformed into nouns--
> though this process is far less common.
"talk", "look", "go", "stand", "shoot", "drink", "think", "scribble",
"drive", "dig", "catch", "throw", "toss", ...
I'm tempted to say that the only reason that more nouns are verbed
than verbs nouned is that it seems that there are relatively few verbs
that didn't come from nouns in the first place.
> Sport is another ready source. "Rollerblade", "skateboard",
> "snowboard" and "zorb" have all graduated from names of equipment to
> actual activities.
"boot" did by 1914 (ca. 1468 in other senses).
> Football referees used to book players,
booked players since about 1959, according to the OED, but they do so
in much the same way that police officers booked people going back at
least to 1841. Other actions involving writing things down have been
"booking" since at least 966, when it was a way to grant land.
> or send them off: now they "card" them.
the 1970 World Cup to the time when people started calling showing
someone a card "carding" them.
> Racing drivers "pit",
They also "corner". (Not to be confused with hunters "cornering"
their prey.) If they're good, they "lap" their opponents. They
"pace" themselves.
Going the other way, they go around "turns"
> golfers "par"
And "birdie" and "bogie"
> and coastal divers "tombstone".
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |On a scale of one to ten...
SF Bay Area (1982-) |it sucked.
Chicago (1964-1982)
evan.kir...@gmail.com
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
James Hogg
Dec 19, 2011, 2:09:17 AM12/19/11
to
distinguished from the noun by having verb endings. The noun was "fisc"
but the verb was "fiscian" in the infinitive. The loss of the endings
made many verbs identical to their nouns, and analogy then made it easy
to verb just about any noun. I don't think this kind of word formation
would provoke nearly as much discussion today if we had kept verb
endings, or if we used some other suffix to derive new verbs, saying
"doughnutizing" instead of "doughnutting".
<huge snip>
--
James
R H Draney
Dec 19, 2011, 4:56:07 AM12/19/11
to
Evan Kirshenbaum filted:
watching the minister minister)....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>>
>> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
>> parent.
>
>Since 1663, according to the OED, in a somewhat different sense.
>Earlier, they fathered [1483, in a different sense ca. 1400], sired
>[bef. 1616], and mothered [bef. 1425 in the sense analagous to "sire",
>1825 in the modern sense] them.
>
>But the old thing they did that's pretty much equivalent to today's
>"parent" is "nurse" (ca. 1330 in the sense of "to rear or bring up; to
>nurture"). Around the same vintage, but cited slightly later than the
>noun (in the sense of "wet nurse").
If a president presides and a governor governs, what does a mayor do? (he asked,
>MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>>
>> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
>> parent.
>
>Since 1663, according to the OED, in a somewhat different sense.
>Earlier, they fathered [1483, in a different sense ca. 1400], sired
>[bef. 1616], and mothered [bef. 1425 in the sense analagous to "sire",
>1825 in the modern sense] them.
>
>But the old thing they did that's pretty much equivalent to today's
>"parent" is "nurse" (ca. 1330 in the sense of "to rear or bring up; to
>nurture"). Around the same vintage, but cited slightly later than the
>noun (in the sense of "wet nurse").
watching the minister minister)....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
James Hogg
Dec 19, 2011, 5:08:40 AM12/19/11
to
American English. Are there speakers of British English who make a
distinction in the pronunciation of the words?
--
James
MC
Dec 19, 2011, 7:35:19 AM12/19/11
to
Donna Richoux
Dec 19, 2011, 2:03:33 PM12/19/11
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Sometime in the last 20-30 years 'raise' became a bad word when
> referring to raising children. No, I don't know why.
You must have only just happened to notice the controversy (which has
mostly disappeared anyway, as far as I can tell), but it's been around
for a couple of hundred years.
I can't copy the text, but you can find Merriam-Webster's "Dictionary of
English Usage" entry on "raise, rear" here:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=2yJusP0vrdgC&pg=PA794
It says it was an Americanism criticized as provincial as early as 1818.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
> Sometime in the last 20-30 years 'raise' became a bad word when
> referring to raising children. No, I don't know why.
You must have only just happened to notice the controversy (which has
mostly disappeared anyway, as far as I can tell), but it's been around
for a couple of hundred years.
I can't copy the text, but you can find Merriam-Webster's "Dictionary of
English Usage" entry on "raise, rear" here:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=2yJusP0vrdgC&pg=PA794
It says it was an Americanism criticized as provincial as early as 1818.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Nasti J
Dec 19, 2011, 7:29:08 PM12/19/11
to
On Dec 18, 11:54 pm, Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kirshenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm tempted to say that the only reason that more nouns are verbed
> than verbs nouned is that it seems that there are relatively few verbs
> that didn't come from nouns in the first place.
Starbucks' 2011 Holiday Season slogan: "Let's marry."
wrote:
> I'm tempted to say that the only reason that more nouns are verbed
> than verbs nouned is that it seems that there are relatively few verbs
> that didn't come from nouns in the first place.
Skitt
Dec 19, 2011, 8:04:43 PM12/19/11
to
Nasti J wrote:
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>> I'm tempted to say that the only reason that more nouns are verbed
>> than verbs nouned is that it seems that there are relatively few verbs
>> that didn't come from nouns in the first place.
>
> Starbucks' 2011 Holiday Season slogan: "Let's marry."
Sorry, I'm already taken.
>> I'm tempted to say that the only reason that more nouns are verbed
>> than verbs nouned is that it seems that there are relatively few verbs
>> that didn't come from nouns in the first place.
>
> Starbucks' 2011 Holiday Season slogan: "Let's marry."
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
Nasti J
Dec 19, 2011, 10:42:14 PM12/19/11
to
John Holmes
Dec 21, 2011, 2:16:50 AM12/21/11
to
Eric Walker wrote:
> [...] On the other hand, "doughnut", in
> the sense described in the article*, seems a most useful coinage.
I don't think so. There are so many very different metaphorical doughnuts
that nobody would know which you meant.
*which was:
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
> [...] On the other hand, "doughnut", in
> the sense described in the article*, seems a most useful coinage.
I don't think so. There are so many very different metaphorical doughnuts
that nobody would know which you meant.
*which was:
"to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a colleague making a
parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
--
parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Eric Walker
Dec 21, 2011, 5:45:13 AM12/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:16:50 +1100, John Holmes wrote:
> Eric Walker wrote:
>
>> [...] On the other hand, "doughnut", in the sense described in the
>> article*, seems a most useful coinage.
>
> I don't think so. There are so many very different metaphorical
> doughnuts that nobody would know which you meant.
>
> *which was:
> "to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a colleague making a
> parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
> viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
I don't know that it is a requirement of a term that its meaning be
> Eric Walker wrote:
>
>> [...] On the other hand, "doughnut", in the sense described in the
>> article*, seems a most useful coinage.
>
> I don't think so. There are so many very different metaphorical
> doughnuts that nobody would know which you meant.
>
> *which was:
> "to doughnut"--that is, to sit in a ring around a colleague making a
> parliamentary announcement, so that it is not clear to television
> viewers that the chamber is practically deserted.
obvious to those unfamiliar with it, even when it is a metaphor. There
are and have been all sorts of firearms in the world, but that is not a
reason in itself to object to the phrase "gun the engine". The new verb
"doughnut" is a handy two-syllable denomination of something that would
otherwise take several words to say.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
John Holmes
Dec 21, 2011, 6:27:10 AM12/21/11
to
doughnutting. I expect the Speaker takes a dim view of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgC1hdGdyAg
Other people do it on water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPEg3Q9UMyw
It makes a word less useful if it has too many confusing meanings.
John Dunlop
Dec 21, 2011, 8:03:39 AM12/21/11
to
James Hogg:
> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
> American English. Are there speakers of British English who make a
> distinction in the pronunciation of the words?
I don't hear much difference. "Mayor" could be drawn out to two syllables
in careful speech, but I don't think I'd notice any difference in casual
speech.
--
John
> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
> American English. Are there speakers of British English who make a
> distinction in the pronunciation of the words?
in careful speech, but I don't think I'd notice any difference in casual
speech.
--
John
Peter Moylan
Dec 23, 2011, 7:34:08 PM12/23/11
to
incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't had it explained by somebody in
the in-group.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Eric Walker
Dec 23, 2011, 8:08:18 PM12/23/11
to
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:34:08 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
[...]
> The big problem with "doughnutting" is that it's likely to be
> incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't had it explained by somebody in
> the in-group.
I've never seen it, but if it is used with any regularity in political
news or opinion articles--print or online--I'd think it would become
tolerably known fairly soon, at least to those who read those aorts of
things. People who don't won't see it ot be perplexed by it.
I gather that the use is (so far) mainly or wholly U.K., though I daresay
a similar process occurs in the U.S. Congress; if so, it will be
interesting to see if the word travels across the pond.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
[...]
> The big problem with "doughnutting" is that it's likely to be
> incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't had it explained by somebody in
> the in-group.
news or opinion articles--print or online--I'd think it would become
tolerably known fairly soon, at least to those who read those aorts of
things. People who don't won't see it ot be perplexed by it.
I gather that the use is (so far) mainly or wholly U.K., though I daresay
a similar process occurs in the U.S. Congress; if so, it will be
interesting to see if the word travels across the pond.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Dec 24, 2011, 5:16:05 AM12/24/11
to
few months ago:
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.usage.english/2011-10/msg01990.html
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Dr Nick
Dec 24, 2011, 6:22:54 AM12/24/11
to
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Jerry Friedman
Dec 24, 2011, 10:34:10 AM12/24/11
to
On Dec 19, 5:08 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> R H Draney wrote:
> > Evan Kirshenbaum filted:
> R H Draney wrote:
> > Evan Kirshenbaum filted:
> >> MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
> >>> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
> >>> parent.
> >> Since 1663, according to the OED, in a somewhat different sense.
> >> Earlier, they fathered [1483, in a different sense ca. 1400], sired
> >> [bef. 1616], and mothered [bef. 1425 in the sense analagous to "sire",
> >> 1825 in the modern sense] them.
>
> >> But the old thing they did that's pretty much equivalent to today's
> >> "parent" is "nurse" (ca. 1330 in the sense of "to rear or bring up; to
> >> nurture"). Around the same vintage, but cited slightly later than the
> >> noun (in the sense of "wet nurse").
>
> > If a president presides and a governor governs, what does a mayor do? (he asked,
> > watching the minister minister)....r
>
> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
> American English.
...
> >>> Mothers and fathers used to bring up children: now they
> >>> parent.
> >> Since 1663, according to the OED, in a somewhat different sense.
> >> Earlier, they fathered [1483, in a different sense ca. 1400], sired
> >> [bef. 1616], and mothered [bef. 1425 in the sense analagous to "sire",
> >> 1825 in the modern sense] them.
>
> >> But the old thing they did that's pretty much equivalent to today's
> >> "parent" is "nurse" (ca. 1330 in the sense of "to rear or bring up; to
> >> nurture"). Around the same vintage, but cited slightly later than the
> >> noun (in the sense of "wet nurse").
>
> > If a president presides and a governor governs, what does a mayor do? (he asked,
> > watching the minister minister)....r
>
> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
> American English.
As far as I can tell, it often does. Both pronunciations of "mayor"
are in my mother's AHD, New College Edition, from 1976. (I'm visiting
Mom at the moment.)
It accents "mayoral" on the first syllable, though, confirming my
belief that putting the accent on the second syllable is a recent
practice invented to vex me.
--
Jerry Friedman
R H Draney
Dec 24, 2011, 2:20:09 PM12/24/11
to
Jerry Friedman filted:
overhears someone hollering into the telephone "the mare's gonna be shod today"
as "the mayor's gonna be shot today", and spends the next six minutes trying to
prevent the assassination...even at the tender age of six or seven I found that
mistake a bit forced....r
>
>On Dec 19, 5:08=A0am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>
>> > If a president presides and a governor governs, what does a mayor do? (=
>On Dec 19, 5:08=A0am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>
>he asked,
>> > watching the minister minister)....r
>>
>> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
>> American English.
>...
>
>As far as I can tell, it often does. Both pronunciations of "mayor"
>are in my mother's AHD, New College Edition, from 1976. (I'm visiting
>Mom at the moment.)
I remember a bit of a cartoon from my childhood where someone passing the smithy
>> > watching the minister minister)....r
>>
>> I don't suppose a mayor sounds exactly like a mare for any speaker of
>> American English.
>...
>
>As far as I can tell, it often does. Both pronunciations of "mayor"
>are in my mother's AHD, New College Edition, from 1976. (I'm visiting
>Mom at the moment.)
overhears someone hollering into the telephone "the mare's gonna be shod today"
as "the mayor's gonna be shot today", and spends the next six minutes trying to
prevent the assassination...even at the tender age of six or seven I found that
mistake a bit forced....r
occam
Dec 24, 2011, 3:07:06 PM12/24/11
to
On 24/12/2011 11:16 AM, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Eric Walker
> <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:34:08 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> The big problem with "doughnutting" is that it's likely to be
>>> incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't had it explained by somebody in
>>> the in-group.
>>
>> I've never seen it, but if it is used with any regularity in political
>> news or opinion articles--print or online--I'd think it would become
>> tolerably known fairly soon, at least to those who read those aorts of
>> things. People who don't won't see it ot be perplexed by it.
>>
>> I gather that the use is (so far) mainly or wholly U.K., though I daresay
>> a similar process occurs in the U.S. Congress; if so, it will be
>> interesting to see if the word travels across the pond.
>
> The practice seems to have started in Canada...
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 01:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Eric Walker
> <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 11:34:08 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> The big problem with "doughnutting" is that it's likely to be
>>> incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't had it explained by somebody in
>>> the in-group.
>>
>> I've never seen it, but if it is used with any regularity in political
>> news or opinion articles--print or online--I'd think it would become
>> tolerably known fairly soon, at least to those who read those aorts of
>> things. People who don't won't see it ot be perplexed by it.
>>
>> I gather that the use is (so far) mainly or wholly U.K., though I daresay
>> a similar process occurs in the U.S. Congress; if so, it will be
>> interesting to see if the word travels across the pond.
>
>
...But not the term 'doughnutting'. Some other creative must have come
up with that at a later time. And as to why not 'encircling' or
'ringroading' or some other term, the reason must by now be
irretrievably in the land of conjectures
Message has been deleted
Peter Brooks
Dec 26, 2011, 2:42:09 AM12/26/11
to
On Dec 26, 7:14 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <jd5bd7$br...@dont-email.me>
> Since it means "surrounding to give the illusion of a crowd or
> additional substance" I think doughnutting is quite a nice coinage.
>
According to the OED, it's been around since at least 1989:
"
Additions 1993
doughnutting, n. Broadcasting slang.
(ˈdəʊnʌtɪŋ)
[f. doughnut n. + -ing1.]
The clustering of politicians round a speaker during a televised
parliamentary debate, esp. in order to give the impression that the
speaker is well supported or to conceal low attendance (see quot.
19892).
The practice is said to have originated in Canada, but this term
appears not to have been used there.
1989 Daily Tel. 16 Sept. 15/4 Viewers of Commons television
coverage which starts in November have been warned to watch out for
the practice of ‘doughnutting’—whereby MPs cluster artificially around
colleagues speaking in debates. 1989 Sunday Tel. 26 Nov. 43/3
‘Doughnutting’‥came from Ottawa‥. There might be only 20 members in
the house, but knowing that the director wasn't allowed a wideshot,
six of an MP's mates would go and sit around him so that it looked as
if the house was crowded. 1990 EFL Gaz. Jan. 25/1 Doughnutting,
overworked since the House of Commons first received full-frontal
teletreatment last November, this useful word to describe the practice
of clustering around the MP who is speaking, in order to appear on the
screens, is apparently of Canadian origin.
"
> In message <jd5bd7$br...@dont-email.me>
> additional substance" I think doughnutting is quite a nice coinage.
>
According to the OED, it's been around since at least 1989:
"
Additions 1993
doughnutting, n. Broadcasting slang.
(ˈdəʊnʌtɪŋ)
[f. doughnut n. + -ing1.]
The clustering of politicians round a speaker during a televised
parliamentary debate, esp. in order to give the impression that the
speaker is well supported or to conceal low attendance (see quot.
19892).
The practice is said to have originated in Canada, but this term
appears not to have been used there.
1989 Daily Tel. 16 Sept. 15/4 Viewers of Commons television
coverage which starts in November have been warned to watch out for
the practice of ‘doughnutting’—whereby MPs cluster artificially around
colleagues speaking in debates. 1989 Sunday Tel. 26 Nov. 43/3
‘Doughnutting’‥came from Ottawa‥. There might be only 20 members in
the house, but knowing that the director wasn't allowed a wideshot,
six of an MP's mates would go and sit around him so that it looked as
if the house was crowded. 1990 EFL Gaz. Jan. 25/1 Doughnutting,
overworked since the House of Commons first received full-frontal
teletreatment last November, this useful word to describe the practice
of clustering around the MP who is speaking, in order to appear on the
screens, is apparently of Canadian origin.
"
0 new messages