if you melt a 1-yen coin , the aluminum is worth ~ 0.3 yen.

henh...@gmail.com

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Aug 17, 2022, 8:16:50 AM8/17/22

to

True: 1 yen coin floats on water.

if you melt a 1 yen coin (which is illegal)
the aluminum (that you get) is worth about 0.3 yen.

アルミ一円玉の価値は？
アルミニウム地金としてみた1円玉1枚分の価格は0.3円ほどなので、「鋳潰して金属材料として使ったほうが価値がある」とはならないようです。もちろん、「貨幣損傷等取締法」の違反ともなります。ただし、アルミニウム地金を1円玉までにする加工コストもかかるので、「1円玉が1円では作れない」といったことは珍しくありません。Oct 8, 2020

> The one-yen coin is made of pure aluminum, has a radius of exactly one
> centimeter, and weighs just one gram.

[OT] Are the Japanese still using any?
(Yens are worth less than cents, Euro or US)
The one Yen coins are no longer minted, except for collectors,
because the aluminium costs more than the coin is worth.

_______________________

i guess flattening a Penny (e.g. in Disneyland) is legal.

The process of creating elongated coins is legal in the United States, South Africa and parts of Europe. In the United States, U.S. Code Title 18, Chapter 17, Section 331 prohibits "the mutilation, diminution and falsification of United States coinage." The foregoing statute, however, does not prohibit the mutilation of coins, if the mutilated coins are not used fraudulently, i.e., with the intention of creating counterfeit coinage or profiting from the base metal (the pre-1982 copper U.S. cent which, as of 2010, is worth more than one cent in the United States).[11][12] Because elongated coins are made mainly as souvenirs, mutilation for this purpose is legal.

In the UK, the Coinage Act of 1971, Section 10 states: "No person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is for the time being current in the United Kingdom or which, having been current there, has at any time after 16th May 1969 ceased to be so."[13] As the process of creating elongated coins does not require them to be melted nor broken up, Section 10 does not apply and coin elongation is legal within the UK with penny press machines a common sight at tourist attractions across the nation.[14]

Peter Moylan

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Aug 17, 2022, 8:33:51 AM8/17/22

to

On 17/08/22 22:16, henh...@gmail.com wrote:

> True: 1 yen coin floats on water.
>
> if you melt a 1 yen coin (which is illegal) the aluminum (that
> you get) is worth about 0.3 yen.

To the best of my knowledge, I've only ever once mistreated a coin. When
I was a child, I was curious to know what happened if you put a
halfpenny into a glass of Coca-Cola.

Answer: it starts dissolving. But it would take a lot of Coke to get it
to disappear entirely.

Disclaimer: this probably wouldn't happen these days. For one thing,
Coca-Cola changes its recipe every now and then. For another, where
would you ever find a halfpenny?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Aug 17, 2022, 8:49:36 AM8/17/22

to

On 2022-08-17 12:33:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 17/08/22 22:16, henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> True: 1 yen coin floats on water.
>>
>> if you melt a 1 yen coin (which is illegal) the aluminum (that
>> you get) is worth about 0.3 yen.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, I've only ever once mistreated a coin.

When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
railway line and let a train squash it flat. (Strictly illegal, of
course, and I think I was party to such wickedness only once.)

> When
> I was a child, I was curious to know what happened if you put a
> halfpenny into a glass of Coca-Cola.
>
> Answer: it starts dissolving. But it would take a lot of Coke to get it
> to disappear entirely.
>
> Disclaimer: this probably wouldn't happen these days. For one thing,
> Coca-Cola changes its recipe every now and then. For another, where
> would you ever find a halfpenny?

--

Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 17, 2022, 9:08:33 AM8/17/22

to

On 17/08/2022 1:33 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> where
> would you ever find a halfpenny?

Sounds like a job for a hacksaw.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Sam Plusnet

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Aug 17, 2022, 9:49:30 AM8/17/22

to

On 17-Aug-22 13:49, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
> railway line and let a train squash it flat. (Strictly illegal, of
> course, and I think I was party to such wickedness only once.)

I think most kids would do this only once[1], but if you consider the
number of kids within a generation...
This must have taken a lot of coinage out of circulation.

[1] Of course the opportunities to do this were much greater before Dr
Beeching[2] came into view.

[2] If only he had stuck to designing anti-aircraft weaponry and small
arms, we would have retained a much larger rail network..

--
Sam Plusnet

Anders D. Nygaard

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Aug 17, 2022, 4:20:56 PM8/17/22

to

Den 17-08-2022 kl. 14:49 skrev Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
> railway line and let a train squash it flat.

When I was a lad, we did something similar with 5-inch nails.
Not always successful, but in the right orientation it produces
a serviceable knife.

/Anders, Denmark

henh...@gmail.com

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Aug 17, 2022, 5:57:32 PM8/17/22

to

as a boy (of maybe 9 or 10),
i definitely remember
a classmate showing me Coins and Nails thus flattened.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 17, 2022, 6:31:55 PM8/17/22

to

The local zoo has a machine in which you place a penny and have it
flattened and embossed with the zoo's logo as a souvenir. Like the
one in this video, it costs 50 cents (51 cents, actually, since the
user supplies the penny).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbUDCfreqE

The first time I saw one of these machines was at the Museum of
Science and Industry in Chicago in the 1950s. There was no charge to
use the machine, but the user did supply the penny.

Drifting a bit...The building that is now the Museum of Science and
Industry was originally "The Palace of Fine Arts" and built as part of
the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition. It was designed by Charles
Atwood under the direction of Daniel Burnam.

It is one of the two remaining buildings in Chicago built for the
Exposition, although five other buildings were removed from Chicago
and are in place elsewhere.

The 1893 World's Columbian Exposition was a topic of a limited
discussion in this group as the "White City".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Peter Moylan

unread,

Aug 17, 2022, 9:21:52 PM8/17/22

to

On 17/08/22 23:08, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 17/08/2022 1:33 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> where would you ever find a halfpenny?
>
> Sounds like a job for a hacksaw.

Pennies are no longer available in this country. Our smallest coin is
the sixpence, more modernly known as a five-cent coin.

Ken Blake

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Aug 18, 2022, 10:23:10 AM8/18/22

to

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 18:31:50 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 14:57:30 -0700 (PDT), "henh...@gmail.com"
><henh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 1:20:56 PM UTC-7, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 17-08-2022 kl. 14:49 skrev Athel Cornish-Bowden:
>>> > When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
>>> > railway line and let a train squash it flat.
>>
>>> When I was a lad, we did something similar with 5-inch nails.
>>> Not always successful, but in the right orientation it produces
>>> a serviceable knife.
>>>
>>> /Anders, Denmark
>>
>>
>>
>>as a boy (of maybe 9 or 10),
>> i definitely remember
>> a classmate showing me Coins and Nails thus flattened.
>
>
>The local zoo has a machine in which you place a penny and have it
>flattened and embossed with the zoo's logo as a souvenir. Like the
>one in this video, it costs 50 cents (51 cents, actually, since the
>user supplies the penny).

I might have the details wrong, but I vaguely remember my mother
telling me that when she was a child in NYC, the kids all used to put
a penny on the trolley tracks. After the trolley ran over it, it was
the size of a nickel and could be used to operate the turnstile in
subway stations.

Peter T. Daniels

unread,

Aug 18, 2022, 11:55:17 AM8/18/22

to

On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 6:31:55 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 14:57:30 -0700 (PDT), "henh...@gmail.com"
> <henh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 1:20:56 PM UTC-7, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >> Den 17-08-2022 kl. 14:49 skrev Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> >> > When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
> >> > railway line and let a train squash it flat.
> >
> >> When I was a lad, we did something similar with 5-inch nails.
> >> Not always successful, but in the right orientation it produces
> >> a serviceable knife.
> >>
> >> /Anders, Denmark
> >
> >
> >
> >as a boy (of maybe 9 or 10),
> > i definitely remember
> > a classmate showing me Coins and Nails thus flattened.
> The local zoo has a machine in which you place a penny and have it
> flattened and embossed with the zoo's logo as a souvenir. Like the
> one in this video, it costs 50 cents (51 cents, actually, since the
> user supplies the penny).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbUDCfreqE
>
> The first time I saw one of these machines was at the Museum of
> Science and Industry in Chicago in the 1950s. There was no charge to
> use the machine, but the user did supply the penny.

In my day the ones in NYC vacation spots (such as the Jersey Shore)
were a penny and a nickel.

> Drifting a bit...The building that is now the Museum of Science and
> Industry was originally "The Palace of Fine Arts" and built as part of
> the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition. It was designed by Charles
> Atwood under the direction of Daniel Burnam.

In fact, the current building is an imitation in stone of the original
building. The World's Columbian Exposition's buildings were not
intended to survive a Lake Michigan winter and were basically
made of lath and plaster.

> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And misinformation.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 18, 2022, 12:44:22 PM8/18/22

to

According to Wiki: (The building that is now the Museum of Science
and Industry) "Unlike the other "White City" buildings, it was
constructed with a brick substructure under its plaster facade."

According to the museum's own website: "Built as the fair's Palace of
Fine Arts, ours is the only building constructed for the 1893 World's
Columbian Exposition's "White City" that remains at the site. Unlike
most structures of the White City, the Palace of Fine Arts was built
with brick as a safeguard for the international artwork on display.
This was key to the building's longevity long after other structures
from the fair had been lost to fire or decay."

So where is the "misinformation" coming from?

The fact that the current building has structural and facade elements
added since 1893 does not make it an "imitation".

You pretend to be an expert, but offer unsubstantiated "facts" that
are, in fact, misinformation.

Peter T. Daniels

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Aug 18, 2022, 12:57:24 PM8/18/22

to

Show me the brick.

> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And desperate attempts to get out of misstatements.

Peter T. Daniels

unread,

Aug 18, 2022, 1:00:04 PM8/18/22

to

I'm quite certain you won't quote this message, leaving your
stooges with the false impression that you corrected some
misstatement (that I did not make). Your stoogemastering
is nothing if not self-serving.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 18, 2022, 1:53:26 PM8/18/22

to

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 09:57:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

The building's original brick was covered with a limestone facade in
the late 1920s thanks to fund-raising efforts, and a donation, by
Julius Rosenwald.

The building is not, as you claimed, an "imiation in stone".

If you want to see the original brick of a building constructed for
the Exposition, travel up to Brookline MA and look at the "Dutch
House".

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-dutch-house-brookline-massachusetts

It was dismantled brick-by-brick and re-assembled in Brookline for
Captain Charles Brooks Appleton.

It was not made "basically of lath and plaster'.

You may have visited the De Caro House in Oak Park IL as it was
remodeled by Frank Lloyd Wright in 1906. Another Exposition building
- the ticket booth - is located there. It is wooden, though, and I
make no claim of how much of the original wood remains. I don't see
any indication that it was originally of lath and plaster
construction.

The Maine State Building at the Exposition was dismantled and shipped
in 16 boxcars to South Poland Spring, Maine. It was constructed of
granite, not lath and plaster.

The Pabst Pavilion still survives, but in Milwaukee WI.

The Norway Pavilion is also a surviving building from the Exposition,
but in Wisconsin. It was originally assembled in Trondheim, Norway
and shipped to Chicago. Not something that could be done with
something built from lath and plaster.

>> --
>> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>

>And desperate attempts to get out of misstatements.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 18, 2022, 2:02:29 PM8/18/22

to

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

What?

I have not trimmed anything from any of your posts on this subject.

Your misstatement was that the Museum of Science and Industry is an
"imitation" of the original building when it is, in fact, the original
brick structure with a limestone facade, and additional components,
added later. Your misstatement implied that the original building was
lath and plaster.

The only thing I usually trim from your posts is my sig line and what
you've added to it. Not in this case, though.

Hibou

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Aug 18, 2022, 2:13:04 PM8/18/22

to

Le 17/08/2022 à 14:49, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
> On 17-Aug-22 13:49, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
>> railway line and let a train squash it flat. (Strictly illegal, of
>> course, and I think I was party to such wickedness only once.)
>

> I think most kids would do this only once, but if you consider the

> number of kids within a generation...
> This must have taken a lot of coinage out of circulation.

I've never done that, but I think the hope was that the flattened,
enlarged ha'penny would pass (circulate) as a penny. Either one hundred
percent profit, or a useful addition to the dictionary definition of
'forlorn hope'.

As to melting yen coins, I doubt it's illegal here - but the energy
required to do so would probably cost more than the coin. Best to do it
before October, anyhow.

bruce bowser

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Aug 18, 2022, 2:23:18 PM8/18/22

to

On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 8:16:50 AM UTC-4, henh...@gmail.com wrote:
> True: 1 yen coin floats on water.
>
> if you melt a 1 yen coin (which is illegal)

According to ..?

> the aluminum (that you get) is worth about 0.3 yen.

Micheal Schmidt - Quora

" ... While the THEORETICAL value of the copper and zinc in a 95% copper cent is greater than the face value, the actual market price of the alloyed metals is much lower, about a half cent apiece. In order to get the full spot price you would have to separate the two metals and the cost of doing that would be greater than the supposed profit you would get from separated metals."

-- https://www.quora.com/Is-it-more-valuable-to-melt-a-penny-down-and-sell-the-copper-and-zinc

Peter T. Daniels

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Aug 18, 2022, 4:57:30 PM8/18/22

to

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 2:02:29 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> The only thing I usually trim from your posts is my sig line and what
> you've added to it.

Oh, don't lie. Or else flaunt your failures of memory.

> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And lying.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 18, 2022, 5:25:37 PM8/18/22

to

You can, of course, post links to examples of this?

No?

I thought not.

wugi

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Aug 18, 2022, 5:38:19 PM8/18/22

to

Op 17/08/2022 om 14:16 schreef henh...@gmail.com:

> True: 1 yen coin floats on water.
>
>
> if you melt a 1 yen coin (which is illegal)
> the aluminum (that you get) is worth about 0.3 yen.
>
>
>
> アルミ一円玉の価値は？
> アルミニウム地金としてみた1円玉1枚分の価格は0.3円ほどなので、「鋳潰して金属材料として使ったほうが価値がある」とはならないようです。もちろん、「貨幣損傷等取締法」の違反ともなります。ただし、アルミニウム地金を1円玉までにする加工コストもかかるので、「1円玉が1円では作れない」といったことは珍しくありません。Oct 8, 2020
>
>
>> The one-yen coin is made of pure aluminum, has a radius of exactly one
>> centimeter, and weighs just one gram.
>
>
> [OT] Are the Japanese still using any?
> (Yens are worth less than cents, Euro or US)
> The one Yen coins are no longer minted, except for collectors,
> because the aluminium costs more than the coin is worth.
>

I just read recently, if not here it'd be in Quora, that a one yen coin
weighs exactly 1g and has dito radius 1cm.
So you can use handfuls of them, if not for paying, for weighing and
measuring small things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_yen_coin

Maybe other coins are also fit for such unit usage?

--
guido wugi

Ruud Harmsen

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Aug 19, 2022, 2:12:44 AM8/19/22

to

Thu, 18 Aug 2022 14:02:24 -0400: Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
scribeva:

>The only thing I usually trim from your posts is my sig line and what
>you've added to it. Not in this case, though.

Proper Usenet software removes sigs, if properly marked by a line that
has only dash dash space on it, automatically. But proper software is
rare these days.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

J. J. Lodder

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Aug 19, 2022, 6:45:50 AM8/19/22

to

wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:

[-]

> I just read recently, if not here it'd be in Quora, that a one yen coin
> weighs exactly 1g and has dito radius 1cm.
> So you can use handfuls of them, if not for paying, for weighing and
> measuring small things.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_yen_coin
>
> Maybe other coins are also fit for such unit usage?

The original silver Dutch guilder, aka Florin, weighted nearly 10 grams.
So 100 000 of them, in a barrel, weighted one ton.
The usage of 'een ton' for 100 000 guilders survives in Dutch.
(nowadays also as an 'euroton')

But inflation is gradually killing the usage,
since it is no longer a great amount of money,
(it won't buy you a house, for example)

Revived though in Dutch, but not in Belgian, in the 'jubelton'. [1]

Jan

[1] A fiscal measure to be abolished soon:
Parents are allowed to give their children
100 000 euros tax free, for the purpose of buying a house.
Heavily criticised: it mainly serves to drive up housing prices,
and it discriminates against those not having moneyed parents.

J. J. Lodder

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Aug 19, 2022, 6:45:50 AM8/19/22

to

henh...@gmail.com <henh...@gmail.com> wrote:

FYI: On usenet you should not post other people's text
as if it were your own,

Jan

Peter Moylan

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Aug 19, 2022, 9:23:23 AM8/19/22

to

On 19/08/22 20:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> henh...@gmail.com <henh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> FYI: On usenet you should not post other people's text as if it were
> your own,

Hen Hanna has always had trouble following normal Usenet standards, and
suggestions from other people have had no effect. I suspect some sort of
intellectual disability that we'll just have to live with.

Peter Moylan

unread,

Aug 19, 2022, 9:34:46 AM8/19/22

to

On 19/08/22 20:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> But inflation is gradually killing the usage, since it is no longer
> a great amount of money, (it won't buy you a house, for example)
>
> Revived though in Dutch, but not in Belgian, in the 'jubelton'. [1]
>

> [1] A fiscal measure to be abolished soon: Parents are allowed to
> give their children 100 000 euros tax free, for the purpose of
> buying a house. Heavily criticised: it mainly serves to drive up
> housing prices, and it discriminates against those not having
> moneyed parents.

The cost of housing, including rentals, has been a major political issue
here for some time. It is obvious to every man and his dog that house
prices are going up faster than wages, making housing unaffordable.

Various remedies have been tried. One, introduced by the previous
government, was to encourage sub-prime mortgages by making it possible
to get a housing loan with a small deposit. With rising interest rates,
it was always clear that this would result in low-income people buying a
house and then losing the house and their savings. So why would anyone
promote it? Because it drives up prices.

Most other proposed measures have the same problem. But of course they
would. If you look at who is doing the proposals, they have just two goals:
(a) to drive up the profits of property developers;
(b) to drive up the investment gains of those who
buy houses as investments.

Point (b) was especially important to the previous government, because
most of their members of parliament were owners of two or more
investment properties. That meant that most laws that affected housing
were voted in by people who failed to declare a conflict of interest.

Ken Blake

unread,

Aug 19, 2022, 10:16:07 AM8/19/22

to

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 23:23:17 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/08/22 20:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> henh...@gmail.com <henh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> FYI: On usenet you should not post other people's text as if it were
>> your own,
>
>Hen Hanna has always had trouble following normal Usenet standards, and
>suggestions from other people have had no effect. I suspect some sort of
>intellectual disability that we'll just have to live with.

*Have to* live with? Certainly not. It's easy enough to killfile him.

I haven't killfiled him yet, but I'm on the verge of doing so.

unread,

Aug 19, 2022, 11:33:15 AM8/19/22

to

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 23:23:17 +1000
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 19/08/22 20:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > henh...@gmail.com <henh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > FYI: On usenet you should not post other people's text as if it were
> > your own,
>
> Hen Hanna has always had trouble following normal Usenet standards, and
> suggestions from other people have had no effect. I suspect some sort of
> intellectual disability that we'll just have to live with.
>

HH also poses known maths problems on alt.rec.puzzles. One of these was a
Martin Gardner problem (or at least published in his Mathematical Games
section of Scientific American) which used the Yen coin as the basis for
the puzzle.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Quinn C

unread,

Aug 19, 2022, 1:29:58 PM8/19/22

to

* Ken Blake:

I've never un-killfiled him; his posting setup triggers one of my broad
filters, which catches most spam.

--
The lack of any sense of play between them worried Miles. You
had to have a keen sense of humor to do sex and stay sane.
-- L. McMaster Bujold, Memory

Tony Cooper

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Aug 19, 2022, 1:40:21 PM8/19/22

to

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:25:32 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:54:52 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 5:25:37 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 13:57:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 2:02:29 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>> >> >> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>> >> >And lying.
>> >> You can, of course, post links to examples of this?
>> >> No?
>> >> I thought not.
>> >Well, I'm certainly not going to trawl through the archives to discover
>> >the message where you told me there was a Chock Full o' Nuts in
>> >Hoboken (convenient to the rail terminal). or the one where you told
>> >me some business was on some street in Jersey City that didn't even
>> >exist, or that there are active landfills within Jersey City, ...
>>
>> What have those examples to do with unfairly trimming your posts?
>
>You asked for "links" to your examples of lies, moron.

As usual, you are the one who trims to mislead. The context, that you
removed, was (TC) "The only thing I usually trim from your posts is
my sig line and what you've added to it" followed by (PTD) "Oh, don't

lie. Or else flaunt your failures of memory."

>

>You love to do "research," so you should probably be able to find
>the links to the messages in which you posted those lies.
>
>> An exchange with you is like asking what time it is and getting
>> "Yellow" as a response.
>> >
>> >I do appreciate your finding the one surviving Arby's at an accessible
>> >distance.
>> >> --
>> >> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>> >> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>> >And convenient amnesia.
>> --
>> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
>
>And utter imbecility.

Tony Cooper

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Aug 19, 2022, 2:02:53 PM8/19/22

to

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 08:25:32 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> >Well, I'm certainly not going to trawl through the archives to discover
>> >the message where you told me there was a Chock Full o' Nuts in
>> >Hoboken (convenient to the rail terminal). or the one where you told
>> >me some business was on some street in Jersey City that didn't even
>> >exist, or that there are active landfills within Jersey City, ...
>>
>> What have those examples to do with unfairly trimming your posts?
>
>You asked for "links" to your examples of lies, moron.

You have never been able to grasp the meaning of the word "lie".

A "lie" is a delibertate falsehood. Something said that is false is
not a lie if the person saying it believes it to be true.

I would not consider your statement about the Museum of Science and
Industry to be an "imitation" of the original building to be a lie.
It's false, but a statement based on ignorance, not intended as
deliberate deceit. Likewise your false statement about what was
changed when Illinois revised their Constitution. Again, just
ignorance.

Ruud Harmsen

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Aug 19, 2022, 2:58:29 PM8/19/22

to

Fri, 19 Aug 2022 16:16:18 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:

First time I see this explanation. So he probably made it up on the
spot.

wugi

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Aug 19, 2022, 3:45:30 PM8/19/22

to

Op 19/08/2022 om 20:58 schreef Ruud Harmsen:

It smelt a bit fishy but is altogether not entirely made up:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_(geld)

--
guido wugi

J. J. Lodder

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Aug 19, 2022, 4:18:03 PM8/19/22

to

Yes. Not at all made up.
Before WWII the Dutch silver guilder coin really weighted 10 gram.

Long before that the Dutch East India Company
exported large amounts of silver to Asia.
The silver was kept in a 'ton' (E. a small barrel, a keg)
in the captain quarters, where it could be well guarded.

Smaller 'tons' of course, this was pre-metric.
(and 1000 kg 'tons' would have been hard to handle)
The VOC usually paid in silver coin for the trade items
they bought in India, China, and Japan.

Jan

occam

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Aug 19, 2022, 4:55:41 PM8/19/22

to

On 17/08/2022 14:49, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-08-17 12:33:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

>
>> On 17/08/22 22:16, henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> True:    1 yen coin floats on water.
>>>
>>> if you melt a 1 yen coin    (which is illegal) the aluminum (that
>>> you get)   is   worth about 0.3 yen.
>>

>> To the best of my knowledge, I've only ever once mistreated a coin.

>
> When I were a lad a popular thing to do was to put a halfpeny on the
> railway line and let a train squash it flat. (Strictly illegal, of
> course, and I think I was party to such wickedness only once.)
>

This confession to wickedness is up there with Teresa May's "I ran
through a field of wheat once" self-confessed naughtyness. C'mon Athel,
you can do better than that!

Jerry Friedman

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Aug 19, 2022, 5:14:27 PM8/19/22

to

On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:18:03 PM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
> > Op 19/08/2022 om 20:58 schreef Ruud Harmsen:
> > > Fri, 19 Aug 2022 16:16:18 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:
> > >
> > >> Op 19/08/2022 om 12:45 schreef J. J. Lodder:
> > >>> wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> [-]
> > >>>> I just read recently, if not here it'd be in Quora, that a one yen coin
> > >>>> weighs exactly 1g and has dito radius 1cm.
> > >>>> So you can use handfuls of them, if not for paying, for weighing and
> > >>>> measuring small things.
> > >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_yen_coin
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Maybe other coins are also fit for such unit usage?
> > >>>
> > >>> The original silver Dutch guilder, aka Florin, weighted nearly 10 grams.
> > >>> So 100 000 of them, in a barrel, weighted one ton.
> > >>> The usage of 'een ton' for 100 000 guilders survives in Dutch.
> > >>> (nowadays also as an 'euroton')
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for explaining this "1 ton" usage in the Nls.
> > >
> > > First time I see this explanation. So he probably made it up on the
> > > spot.
> >
> > It smelt a bit fishy but is altogether not entirely made up:
> > <https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_(geld)>

> Yes. Not at all made up.
> Before WWII the Dutch silver guilder coin really weighted 10 gram.

...

Third time's the charm. You want "weighed". You weigh something to
find out how much it weighs. To weight something is to attach one or
more weights to it.

--
Jerry Friedman

Jerry Friedman

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Aug 19, 2022, 5:16:46 PM8/19/22

to

On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 12:58:29 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 19 Aug 2022 16:16:18 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:
> >Op 19/08/2022 om 12:45 schreef J. J. Lodder:

...

> >> The original silver Dutch guilder, aka Florin, weighted nearly 10 grams.
> >> So 100 000 of them, in a barrel, weighted one ton.
> >> The usage of 'een ton' for 100 000 guilders survives in Dutch.
> >> (nowadays also as an 'euroton')
> >>
> >
> >Thanks for explaining this "1 ton" usage in the Nls.

> First time I see this explanation.

...

That should be "First time I've seen..."

--
Jerry Friedman

Ruud Harmsen

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Aug 20, 2022, 3:27:16 AM8/20/22

to

Fri, 19 Aug 2022 21:45:24 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:

OK, if Wikipedia says so too, it must be true.

Ruud Harmsen

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Aug 20, 2022, 3:35:06 AM8/20/22

to

Fri, 19 Aug 2022 14:16:43 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:

Too difficult. Can't learn that. In Dutch, only
Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring zie.
is possible, while
Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring heb gezien.
would be grossly ungrammatical.

But
Deze verklaring heb ik nooit eerder gezien.
(This explanation have I never before seen.)
is possible and correct.

It seems strange to me that in English too, this would even be
possible. I learned that with a time clause that defines a point in
time, not a period, only the present and simple past are possible,
never the perfect. (In Dutch it is, however: "Gisteren heb ik daar
gegeten", *"Yesterday I have eaten there", is correct).

"First time", short for "This is the first time that" to me seems
similar to a pointed time clause.

Am I wrong? Why? The usage of English.

Peter T. Daniels

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Aug 20, 2022, 9:06:50 AM8/20/22

to

On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:35:06 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 19 Aug 2022 14:16:43 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:
> >On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 12:58:29 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Fri, 19 Aug 2022 16:16:18 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:
> >> >Op 19/08/2022 om 12:45 schreef J. J. Lodder:

> >> >> The original silver Dutch guilder, aka Florin, weighted nearly 10 grams.
> >> >> So 100 000 of them, in a barrel, weighted one ton.
> >> >> The usage of 'een ton' for 100 000 guilders survives in Dutch.
> >> >> (nowadays also as an 'euroton')
> >> >Thanks for explaining this "1 ton" usage in the Nls.
> >> First time I see this explanation.

> >That should be "First time I've seen..."
>
> Too difficult. Can't learn that. In Dutch, only
> Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring zie.
> is possible, while
> Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring heb gezien.
> would be grossly ungrammatical.
>
> But
> Deze verklaring heb ik nooit eerder gezien.
> (This explanation have I never before seen.)
> is possible and correct.
>
> It seems strange to me that in English too, this would even be
> possible. I learned that with a time clause that defines a point in
> time, not a period, only the present and simple past are possible,
> never the perfect. (In Dutch it is, however: "Gisteren heb ik daar
> gegeten", *"Yesterday I have eaten there", is correct).

English ain't German -- "This explanation I have never before seen."

> "First time", short for "This is the first time that" to me seems
> similar to a pointed time clause.

You can't use it in formal prose.

Ruud Harmsen

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Aug 20, 2022, 10:38:15 AM8/20/22

to

Sat, 20 Aug 2022 06:06:48 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

Stimmt:
Diese Erklärung (oder Erläuterung) hab' ich noch nie gesehen. Hatte
ich noch nie gesehen. Waarscheinlich auch möglich:
Erste Mal (oder: Das erste Mal) dass ich das sehe / gesehen habe.

But in Dutch, that sounds weird and incorrect.

>> "First time", short for "This is the first time that" to me seems
>> similar to a pointed time clause.
>
>You can't use it in formal prose.
>
>> Am I wrong? Why? The usage of English.

Jerry Friedman

unread,

Aug 20, 2022, 10:58:53 AM8/20/22

to

On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 1:35:06 AM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Fri, 19 Aug 2022 14:16:43 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:
> >On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 12:58:29 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Fri, 19 Aug 2022 16:16:18 +0200: wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> scribeva:
> >> >Op 19/08/2022 om 12:45 schreef J. J. Lodder:
> >...
> >
> >> >> The original silver Dutch guilder, aka Florin, weighted nearly 10 grams.
> >> >> So 100 000 of them, in a barrel, weighted one ton.
> >> >> The usage of 'een ton' for 100 000 guilders survives in Dutch.
> >> >> (nowadays also as an 'euroton')
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for explaining this "1 ton" usage in the Nls.
> >
> >> First time I see this explanation.
> >...
> >
> >That should be "First time I've seen..."
> Too difficult. Can't learn that.

Sorry.

English seems to have a lot of tense-aspect-thingamabobs for verbs, and
they don'tmatch up well with a lot of other languages.

> In Dutch, only
> Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring zie.
> is possible, while
> Eerste keer dat ik deze verklaring heb gezien.
> would be grossly ungrammatical.
>
> But
> Deze verklaring heb ik nooit eerder gezien.
> (This explanation have I never before seen.)
> is possible and correct.
>
> It seems strange to me that in English too, this would even be
> possible. I learned that with a time clause that defines a point in
> time, not a period, only the present and simple past are possible,
> never the perfect. (In Dutch it is, however: "Gisteren heb ik daar
> gegeten", *"Yesterday I have eaten there", is correct).
>
> "First time", short for "This is the first time that" to me seems
> similar to a pointed time clause.

Well, the main clause defines a point in time, but the clause that
"seen" is in doesn't. I don't know whether that's a good explanation,
though.

> Am I wrong? Why? The usage of English.

Correct.

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter Moylan

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Aug 20, 2022, 7:20:21 PM8/20/22

to

Dutch and English are closely related languages, yet you must use a
perfect tense in one language where it would be wrong in the other. And
vice versa.

Conclusion: verb tenses don't have the fixed meanings we like to think
they have. It's all a matter of fashion.

Quinn C

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Aug 21, 2022, 5:55:42 PM8/21/22

to

* Peter Moylan:

I think a lot of it is about redundancy. "For the first time" already
expresses that it has never happened in the past, so it seems redundant
to express that again by using the perfect tense.

But then, from the point of view of some languages, when you said
"yesterday", it's redundant to also use the past tense on top of that,
yet all the Germanic languages will require that (in an unmarked style).

--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945

Peter T. Daniels

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Aug 22, 2022, 7:48:39 AM8/22/22

to

On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:55:42 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> But then, from the point of view of some languages, when you said
> "yesterday", it's redundant to also use the past tense on top of that,
> yet all the Germanic languages will require that (in an unmarked style).

But not the equivalent for the future. Don't go for logic!