pall mall is pell mell
GrapeApe
ball.
But I have heard it pronounced to rhyme with bell, at least in the case of the
cigarette brand, and the slang term I am guessing would be synonymous with
'copasetic' perhaps.
Are both of these pronunciations corrrect? Does the word meaning change
depending on pronunciation?
Richard Fontana
For "pall-mall" M-W gives these pronunciations (converted to General
American pseudophonemic ASCII IPA): /pEl mEl/, /p&l m&l/ (/&/ is the vowel
you use in "Hal"), 'US often /pOl mOl/' where they mean the vowel you use
in "Paul", whether you're a cot==caught speaker or not (if you're not you
probably don't want to use /O/ to transcribe that vowel). I think they're
subtly implying that the /pOl mOl/ is a Bad American pronunciation but one
they feel compelled to include.
Definition is:
"a 17th century game in which each player attempts to drive a wooden ball
with a mallet down an alley and through a raised ring in as few strokes as
possible; also : the alley in which it is played".
I don't know what slang word you're talking about. There's a
non-slang word "pell-mell", which is always /pEl mEl/ (whether British
speakers should use the transcription /pel mel/ is an open question),
which means "1 : in mingled confusion or disorder 2 : in confused haste".
--
Richard
GrapeApe
>I don't know what slang word you're talking about. There's a
>non-slang word "pell-mell", which is always /pEl mEl/ (whether British
>speakers should use the transcription /pel mel/ is an open question),
>which means "1 : in mingled confusion or disorder 2 : in confused haste".
The cigarette brand I was told by those who smoked them, spelled 'Pall Mall',
was pronounced 'Pell Mell'. I do not remember any audio or TV advertisments
pronouncing the brands name.
And I could be wrong on the slang usage of Pell Mell as meaning 'everything is
running smooth and orderly"; your version of Pell Mell (confusion. disorder )
seems to imply the antonym of this usage (slang can often take the opposite
meaning).
Richard Fontana
> >
> >I don't know what slang word you're talking about. There's a
> >non-slang word "pell-mell", which is always /pEl mEl/ (whether British
> >speakers should use the transcription /pel mel/ is an open question),
> >which means "1 : in mingled confusion or disorder 2 : in confused haste".
>
> The cigarette brand I was told by those who smoked them, spelled 'Pall Mall',
> was pronounced 'Pell Mell'. I do not remember any audio or TV advertisments
> pronouncing the brands name.
I don't remember any broadcast advertisements for cigarette products
period (full stop), though I believe they still existed for some time
after I was born. My father actually used to smoke Pall Mall cigarettes,
back when he smoked, but I can't remember how he pronounced the name.
My French teacher in college, who was from Belgium and had a rather thick
accent, told my class once that she tried to buy Pall Mall cigarettes
in America and was given Parliament.
> And I could be wrong on the slang usage of Pell Mell as meaning 'everything is
> running smooth and orderly"; your version of Pell Mell (confusion. disorder )
> seems to imply the antonym of this usage (slang can often take the opposite
> meaning).
Maybe. I'm especially unreliable when it comes to slang less than ten
years old, somewhat by choice.
Speaking of which: We were talking about 'opposite' slang in the context
of 'bad'. I had been thinking about that because there's a TV commercial
for IBM (the Thinkpad), I think, which involves a young guy in casual
dress who is describing how great this notebook computer is, and he brings
a company lawyer along (a bald guy dressed in a suit, probably not older
than 40) to make sure everything he says is legit. He's going over the
features, and the bald lawyer nods, and then he says "And it's the baddest
thing on the market". The lawyer interrupts him and says "Um, Leon, I
don't think we can say that. Legally. It's not *bad*. It's *good*." The
young hipster guy rolls his eyes.
This was the most ridiculous TV commercial involving slang usages that
I've seen in a while.
--
Richard
R J Valentine
...
] Speaking of which: We were talking about 'opposite' slang in the context
] of 'bad'. I had been thinking about that because there's a TV commercial
] for IBM (the Thinkpad), I think, which involves a young guy in casual
] dress who is describing how great this notebook computer is, and he brings
] a company lawyer along (a bald guy dressed in a suit, probably not older
] than 40) to make sure everything he says is legit. He's going over the
] features, and the bald lawyer nods, and then he says "And it's the baddest
] thing on the market". The lawyer interrupts him and says "Um, Leon, I
] don't think we can say that. Legally. It's not *bad*. It's *good*." The
] young hipster guy rolls his eyes.
]
] This was the most ridiculous TV commercial involving slang usages that
] I've seen in a while.
Yeah, but it's one of the best IBM ads I've _ever_ seen. Those guys used
to be notorious for coming in dressed like Mormon missionaries or FBI
agents (you know, like white shirt and tie when everyone else would be
dressed more casually), then talking to the important folks about selling
them bigger computers to run the bigger software on while the regular
folks were busy doing page changes for the manuals in the manual racks.
This here is like the New IBM meeting the Old IBM and seemed almost
effective.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@clark.net?subject=%3Cnews:alt.usage.english%3E%20>
Alex Chernavsky
>Yeah, but it's one of the best IBM ads I've _ever_ seen.
The Spinal Tap ad was good, too:
http://www.ibm.com/news/ls960524.html
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
GrapeApe
>years old, somewhat by choice.
Pell mell is older than ten as slang. It is the type of thing you would hear
in 30's gangster films perhaps through the 60's.
Slang is cyclical, and the antonymic flip-flop is one of the primary cycles.
although all the cool and hot tends to blend together after awhile and
everything must be determined by context.
So I think the IBM commercial as you described it is a bit un-hip. Which may
make it hip. Because anyone below retirement age would be familiar with "bad'
as 'good' no matter how tightly their head was shoved up their corporate
asshole.. So maybe it is hip, because it is recalling the square IBM.
Some folks thought that Little Tramp stuff wasn't tired and hackneyed either.
But the newer IBM ads are usually Pell Mell with me.
Robert Lieblich
[ . . . ]
> I don't remember any broadcast advertisements for cigarette products
> period (full stop), though I believe they still existed for some time
> after I was born. My father actually used to smoke Pall Mall cigarettes,
> back when he smoked, but I can't remember how he pronounced the name.
In the commercials, it was "pell-mell," with British-accented announcer.
I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
invariably "paul-maul." I suspect that if you'd wandered into a candy
store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
nancy g.
> In the commercials, it was "pell-mell," with British-accented announcer.
> I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
> invariably "paul-maul." I suspect that if you'd wandered into a candy
> store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
> proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
In the Boston area in the early 60s, the cigarettes were definitely
"Pell-Mell". I remember learning to read and wondering why my dad
didn't know how to pronounce the name of his cigarettes properly --
but then I listened to other people pronouncing it the same way, and
I instead began to wonder why the Pell Mell company didn't know how
to spell the name of their cigarettes.
Then he switched to a pipe.
Everyone pronounced "Half and Half" properly.
Peter Prictoe
"Robert Lieblich" <lieb...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:39CCC2...@erols.com...
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> > I don't remember any broadcast advertisements for cigarette products
PP In the UK the broadcasts (pre and post war) came from Luxembourg and
France but cigarettes were certainly advertised.
RK In the commercials, it was "pell-mell," with British-accented announcer.
> I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
> invariably "paul-maul."
PP Yes, that was the southern British speech.
RK I suspect that if you'd wandered into a candy
> store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
> proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
PP Were they on sale in the USA?
I smoked but cannot remember if they were USA or British?
In wartime UK the only "American" style cigarettes that I can recall being
on sale were "Fifth Avenue"
Peter P
Richard Fontana
> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>
> > In the commercials, it was "pell-mell," with British-accented announcer.
> > I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
> > invariably "paul-maul." I suspect that if you'd wandered into a candy
> > store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
> > proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
>
> In the Boston area in the early 60s, the cigarettes were definitely
> "Pell-Mell". I remember learning to read and wondering why my dad
> didn't know how to pronounce the name of his cigarettes properly --
> but then I listened to other people pronouncing it the same way, and
> I instead began to wonder why the Pell Mell company didn't know how
> to spell the name of their cigarettes.
>
> Then he switched to a pipe.
> Everyone pronounced "Half and Half" properly.
In the Boston area, eh? Did they say /h&f/ or /haf/?
--
Richard
Robert Lipton
Peter Prictoe wrote:
>
> "Robert Lieblich" <lieb...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:39CCC2...@erols.com...
> > Richard Fontana wrote:
>
> > > I don't remember any broadcast advertisements for cigarette products
>
> PP In the UK the broadcasts (pre and post war) came from Luxembourg and
> France but cigarettes were certainly advertised.
>
> RK In the commercials, it was "pell-mell," with British-accented announcer.
> > I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
> > invariably "paul-maul."
>
> PP Yes, that was the southern British speech.
>
> RK I suspect that if you'd wandered into a candy
> > store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
> > proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
>
> PP Were they on sale in the USA?
> I smoked but cannot remember if they were USA or British?
My mother smoked them for many years: Pall Mall filtered cigarettes in
soft packs. They were manufactured by Brown & Williamson.
Bob
Nyal Williams
"Robert Lieblich" <lieb...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:39CCC2...@erols.com...
> Richard Fontana wrote:
>
>
> > I don't remember any broadcast advertisements for cigarette products
> > period (full stop), though I believe they still existed for some time
> > after I was born. My father actually used to smoke Pall Mall
cigarettes,
> > back when he smoked, but I can't remember how he pronounced the name.
>
> I never knew anyone outside the commercials to say that; it was
> store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
> proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
I grew up in the US South in the 30s,40, and 50s (Took me a long time) I
recall the first pronunciation as "Paul, Maul," later pronounced "Pal Mal,"
and finally "Pell Mell." I heard all three on the radio as advertisements.
Bun Mui
Where is it and what is it?
Comments?
Bun Mui
Barry in Indy
"Nyal Williams" <nyalwi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> I grew up in the US South in the 30s,40, and 50s (Took me a long
time) I
> recall the first pronunciation as "Paul, Maul," later
pronounced "Pal Mal,"
> and finally "Pell Mell." I heard all three on the radio as
advertisements.
>
>
In Philadelphia, in the 50s, we pronounced the name of the
cigarettes "pell mell." I do remember some of my fellow juvenile
delinquents saying "pall mall"; these were invariably the less-than-
highly-intelligent kids who discovered they could actually read the
name on the cigarette package.
--
barry in indy
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rudolf Schwarzkopf-Zskai
Bun Mui commented:
: I think Pall Mall is used in London, U.K. in English usage.
:
: Where is it and what is it?
:
: Comments?
It's a charming little street running parallel with The Mall (London's only
attempt at a bombastic boulevard, Trafalgar Square to The Palace) with all
sorts of lovely little gentlemen's clubs on........ not that I'd know.
--
Rudolf
Nottingham UK
rud...@ntlworld.com
www.dollynet.freeserve.co.uk
GrapeApe
>> store in Brooklyn around 1965 and asked for a pack of "pell-mells," the
>> proprietor wouldn't have known what you wanted.
I think that is a regional variation. In the Tobacco Belt of the US, many of
those that smoked the brand definately pronouonced them Pell-Mell. I doubt a
shopkeeper would have been confused by the request.
I still don't know if there were any audio ads for the brand- the lower tier
brands didnt get as much lip service/
m.midorikawa
"Nyal Williams" wrote:
>
> I grew up in the US South in the 30s,40, and 50s (Took me a long
> time) I recall the first pronunciation as "Paul, Maul," later
> pronounced "Pal Mal," and finally "Pell Mell." I heard all three on
> the radio as advertisements.
>
In Japan, we usually pronounce Pall Mall /paul maul/.
_An Encyclopedic Supplement to The Dictionary for the General Reader_ (1994)
gives two transliteration in Japanese katakana:
"Perumeru" for /pell mell/
"Pourumouru" for /paul maul/
Nothing for /pal mal/
BTW, does the rhyming slang "Pall Mall," meaning "woman," come from the
pronunciation /pal mal/ ?
m.midorikawa
Stephen Toogood
Schwarzkopf-Zskai <ta...@face.value> writes
>
>Bun Mui commented:
>
>: I think Pall Mall is used in London, U.K. in English usage.
>:
>: Where is it and what is it?
>:
>: Comments?
>
>It's a charming little street running parallel with The Mall (London's only
>attempt at a bombastic boulevard, Trafalgar Square to The Palace) with all
>sorts of lovely little gentlemen's clubs on........ not that I'd know.
>
--
Stephen Toogood
Edgar Ra. Klein
GrapeApe <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:
> >
> >I don't know what slang word you're talking about. There's a
> >non-slang word "pell-mell", which is always /pEl mEl/ (whether British
> >speakers should use the transcription /pel mel/ is an open question),
> >which means "1 : in mingled confusion or disorder 2 : in confused haste".
>
> And I could be wrong on the slang usage of Pell Mell as meaning 'everything is
> running smooth and orderly"; your version of Pell Mell (confusion. disorder )
> seems to imply the antonym of this usage (slang can often take the opposite
> meaning).
maybe the meaning "confusion, disorder" is derived from French
"pêle-mêle" (which means just "in a great/complete disorder", "objects
in disorder")?
Tanja
