God is in his heaven, all's right with the world

[Dingbat]

God is in his heaven, dinner is at 7 and all is well with the world.
My English teacher used it as a quip to describe someone's attitude
as not caring about the rest of the world, considering all to be
well as long as his circumstances remained undiminished as exemplified
by his dinner continuing to be served to him as usual.

I presumed it to be a verbatim quote from literature but I don't find
an identical quotation. So, where did he get it from? If he composed
it, it's interesting that he expected others to comprehend its
implication.

Robert Browning's 1841 composition is a little different:
God's in his heaven ,,,
All's right with the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippa_Passes

[Katy Jennison]

If you read the whole poem, there's a lot more to it than that.

(I also like PG Wodehouse's version "The snail's on the wing, the lark's
on the thorn.")

--
Katy Jennison

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <6c0e6a37-8c3e-4252...@googlegroups.com>,

Ford's in his flivver...

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020, at 12:10:59, Katy Jennison
<ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:

It should continue: the sheep's in the meadow, the cow's in the corn.
--
Paul

[Jerry Friedman]

Your teacher was parodying those lines, and maybe misremembering them too.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Katy Jennison]

Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
would, of course, but the youth of today?)

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter T. Daniels]

Is that like when the curators at the Art Institute of Chicago insisted,
during the immense Monet retrospective, that what he painted was not
"haystacks"?

The same folk instructed all of Chicago not to say "day-GAH" during
his immense retrospective. (The first syllable is a shwa.)

[skpf...@gmail.com]

two cases of "the tomato is not a vegetable".

Someone whose whole existence is about annoying people with trivia.

[pensive hamster]

I reckon the real test of an Art aficionado is the pronounciation of Ingres.

Two different (French) versions here:
https://forvo.com/word/jean_auguste_dominique_ingres/

I favour the first pronounciation, approximating to "Ang".

[Lewis]

In message <r6a2np$f0i$1...@news.albasani.net> Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
> would, of course, but the youth of today?)

I've never seen one outside a movie. Large rolls of hay or bales of hay,
yes. Haystacks? No.

I've worked throwing hay bales onto the flatbed of a slow moving truck.
They are surprisingly heavy and the baling wire rips your hands to
shreds even through heavy gloves.

When my mother traveled to Romania a few years ago )well, maybe 20?)
she say haystacks along with a lot of ox and carts on the roads.

I don't have a picture as she shot mostly video, but they looked like
this:

<https://www.123rf.com/photo_82499044_local-handmade-hay-bales-in-a-green-field-in-rural-breb-romania-.html>

It's not a shape I remember from American or British movies.

--
Law of Probability Dispersal: Whatever hits the fan will not be
evenly distributed.

[J. J. Lodder]

They have some monetised ones at the Musee D'Orsay,
for getting impressions,

Jan

[Jack]

Very fitting:
"A painting from Claude Monet's "Haystacks" series has sold for $110.7
million"
That ain't hay.

--
John

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/4/20 8:13 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-4, Katy Jennison wrote:

[Here Papa pisses.]

>> Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
>> would, of course, but the youth of today?)
>
> Is that like when the curators at the Art Institute of Chicago insisted,
> during the immense Monet retrospective, that what he painted was not
> "haystacks"?
>
> The same folk instructed all of Chicago not to say "day-GAH" during
> his immense retrospective. (The first syllable is a shwa.)

Cf. "DEB-yoo-see".

--
Jerry Friedman

[pensive hamster]

On Saturday, 4 April 2020 16:31:05 UTC+1, Jack wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 17:06:06 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:

> >Katy Jennison wrote:
[...]

> >> Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
> >> would, of course, but the youth of today?)
> >
> >They have some monetised ones at the Musee D'Orsay,
> >for getting impressions,
>
> Very fitting:
> "A painting from Claude Monet's "Haystacks" series has sold for $110.7
> million"
> That ain't hay.

It's quite a stack, though.

[Janet]

In article <slrnr8h8gf....@ProMini.lan>,
g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies says...

>
> In message <r6a2np$f0i$1...@news.albasani.net> Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> > Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
> > would, of course, but the youth of today?)
>
> I've never seen one outside a movie. Large rolls of hay or bales of hay,
> yes. Haystacks? No.
>
> I've worked throwing hay bales onto the flatbed of a slow moving truck.
> They are surprisingly heavy and the baling wire rips your hands to
> shreds even through heavy gloves.
>
> When my mother traveled to Romania a few years ago )well, maybe 20?)
> she say haystacks along with a lot of ox and carts on the roads.
>
> I don't have a picture as she shot mostly video, but they looked like
> this:
>
> <https://www.123rf.com/photo_82499044_local-handmade-hay-bales-in-a-green-field-in-rural-breb-romania-.html>
>

I've seen such haystacks IRL in Scotland.

This photo dates from 2011

https://tinyurl.com/vsklkgm

> It's not a shape I remember from American or British movies.

ISTR there's a haystacking scene in the film of "Far from the madding
crowd". covering the fresh stacks during a storm?


Janet

[Spains Harden]

How about "mountain rill"?

<https://www.blueridgejournal.com/poems/lc-white.htm>

[Tony Cooper]

Growing up in Indiana I remember haystacks in the dome-like shape. At
some point the change was made to hay rolls, but I don't know when.

I suspect that it had something to do with the development of the farm
machine that cuts, rolls, and wraps the hay. Prior to having those,
farmers hand-built the stacks with pitchforks.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Peter Moylan]

Where is the boy who looks after the sheep?

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Katy Jennison]

But a haycock and a haystack (or -rick) are two separate and different
constructions and shapes.

--
Katy Jennison

[Spains Harden]

"Madly squeeze a right-hand foot into a left-hand shoe" etc.

[Peter Moylan]

I know that shape from paintings, but not from my own work. I've
forgotten what shape we had to deal with, but I do remember that it
wasn't easy getting a bale onto the truck.

It didn't help that there were sometimes snakes inside the bale.

[Ken Blake]

Beau Peep?


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

One of the Dead End Kids or East Side Kids (who made lots of two-reelers
and features in the 30s-50s; the usual named stars are Leo Gorcey and
Huntz Hall) was Horace de-BYOO-see Jones. There was no opportunity to
discover how he would have spelled his name, if he was able to spell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_End_Kids

Fascinating!

[Peter Young]

ObLanguage: In Norway these hay rolls are covered in white plastic
sheeting. The tractor pulling the baler goes across the fields disgorging
these white objects at intervals. The translation of the Norwegian slang
for these is "tractor eggs".

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Peter Young]

And Janets haystacks upthread I would call hayricks.

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020, at 18:40:19, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>

>On 4 Apr 2020 Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 17:28:46 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:
>>>g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies says...
>>>> In message <r6a2np$f0i$1...@news.albasani.net> Katy Jennison

I don't remember hay being wrapped after being baled. Would that be good
for it? Perhaps to keep it dry in the open without careful stacking.

The point about wrapping as I've seen it (and I went to a huge grassland
show at Stoneleigh back in the day when I had a client demonstrating
their wrapping there) was for silaging grass, which would ferment inside
the enclosures.

Maybe I just didn't see hay-wrapping because the show was held in May.

That Grassland show is now Grassland and Muck, I see.
--
Paul

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/4/20 12:14 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 05/04/20 01:04, Lewis wrote:

...

>> When my mother traveled to Romania a few years ago )well, maybe 20?)
>> she say haystacks along with a lot of ox and carts on the roads.
>>
>> I don't have a picture as she shot mostly video, but they looked
>> like this:
>>
>> <https://www.123rf.com/photo_82499044_local-handmade-hay-bales-in-a-green-field-in-rural-breb-romania-.html>
>>
>>
>>  It's not a shape I remember from American or British movies.
>
> I know that shape from paintings, but not from my own work. I've
> forgotten what shape we had to deal with, but I do remember that it
> wasn't easy getting a bale onto the truck.
>
> It didn't help that there were sometimes snakes inside the bale.

And sometimes they baled out.

Anyway, most snakes are harmless... Oh. Never mind.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Percival P. Cassidy]

It's not a shape I remember from growing up on a farm is SE UK either.

Perce

[Sam Plusnet]

Too busy dealing with the cow with the crumpled horn.

(Why does that cat look worried?)

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

In the village, crying wolf,

Jan

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer_ciderhousegalleries/dealer_ciderhousegalleries_superhighres_1557330869270-4466472440.jpg

It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-by-herbert-royle/

That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.

There is the phrase "a roll in the hay" (sexual intercourse) which I
assume involves the couple hiding on/in a haystack.

Phrases to attract the attention of a male -
by name: "Hey Rick!"
anonymous: "Hey Cock!".

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Perhaps the seller acted in accordance with "Make hay while the sun
shines".

[pensive hamster]

On Sunday, 5 April 2020 13:26:00 UTC+1, PeterWD wrote:
[...]

> As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer_ciderhousegalleries/dealer_ciderhousegalleries_superhighres_1557330869270-4466472440.jpg
>
> It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-by-herbert-royle/
>
> That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.
>
> There is the phrase "a roll in the hay" (sexual intercourse) which I
> assume involves the couple hiding on/in a haystack.

I assumed it was more usually in a hay barn:

https://www.kitbuildingsdirect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/hay-barns-hero-image.jpg

http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/agriculture/field-guide/hay-barn.html

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <4b1639a9-c89c-4bbe...@googlegroups.com>,

pensive hamster <pensive...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sunday, 5 April 2020 13:26:00 UTC+1, PeterWD wrote:
> [...]
> > As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
> > https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer

> > ciderhousegalleries/dealer ciderhousegalleries superhighres

> > 1557330869270-4466472440.jpg
> >
> > It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
> > https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-b
> > y-herbert-royle/
> >
> > That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.
> >
> > There is the phrase "a roll in the hay" (sexual intercourse) which I
> > assume involves the couple hiding on/in a haystack.
>
> I assumed it was more usually in a hay barn:
>
> https://www.kitbuildingsdirect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/hay-barns-hero
> -image.jpg
>
> http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/agriculture/field-guide/hay-bar
> n.html

Not the way Teri Garr and Gene Wilder did it.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 06:20:11 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
<pensive...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sunday, 5 April 2020 13:26:00 UTC+1, PeterWD wrote:
>[...]
>> As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
>> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer_ciderhousegalleries/dealer_ciderhousegalleries_superhighres_1557330869270-4466472440.jpg
>>
>> It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
>> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-by-herbert-royle/
>>
>> That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.
>>
>> There is the phrase "a roll in the hay" (sexual intercourse) which I
>> assume involves the couple hiding on/in a haystack.
>
>I assumed it was more usually in a hay barn:
>

That's certainly possible.
Perhaps we need a survey. Where's Alfred Kinsey when we need him?


>https://www.kitbuildingsdirect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/hay-barns-hero-image.jpg
>
>http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/agriculture/field-guide/hay-barn.html

[Mack A. Damia]

They were merely aping Haystacks Calhoun.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/5/20 6:25 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
...

> As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer_ciderhousegalleries/dealer_ciderhousegalleries_superhighres_1557330869270-4466472440.jpg
>
> It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-by-herbert-royle/
>
> That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.
>
> There is the phrase "a roll in the hay" (sexual intercourse) which I
> assume involves the couple hiding on/in a haystack.
>
> Phrases to attract the attention of a male -
> by name: "Hey Rick!"
> anonymous: "Hey Cock!".

By race (in Dayton, Ohio, a black man or boy addressing a white one):
"Hey, Stack!"

A friend of mine from the Dayton area was surprised that I'd never heard
"haystack" as slang for a white person.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Young]

As I understand it that is thee reason for wrapping. Before the lockdown
there seemed to be quite a number of fields round here where the rolls
weren't wrapped. At other times of year they usually are wrapped.

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020, at 11:57:32, J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl>

Bah!
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

[J. J. Lodder]

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 17:28:46 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:
>
> >In article <slrnr8h8gf....@ProMini.lan>,
> >g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies says...
> >>

> >> In message <r6a2np$f0i$1...@news.albasani.net> Katy Jennison:

> >> > Who'd even know what a haycock looked like, these days? (Well, we
> >> > would, of course, but the youth of today?)
> >>
> >> I've never seen one outside a movie. Large rolls of hay or bales of hay,
> >> yes. Haystacks? No.
> >>
> >> I've worked throwing hay bales onto the flatbed of a slow moving truck.
> >> They are surprisingly heavy and the baling wire rips your hands to
> >> shreds even through heavy gloves.
> >>
> >> When my mother traveled to Romania a few years ago )well, maybe 20?)
> >> she say haystacks along with a lot of ox and carts on the roads.
> >>
> >> I don't have a picture as she shot mostly video, but they looked like
> >> this:
> >>
> >> <https://www.123rf.com/photo_82499044_local-handmade-hay-bales-in-a-green-f
ield-in-rural-breb-romania-.html>
> >>
> >
> > I've seen such haystacks IRL in Scotland.
> >
> > This photo dates from 2011
> >
> >https://tinyurl.com/vsklkgm
> >
> >> It's not a shape I remember from American or British movies.
> >
> > ISTR there's a haystacking scene in the film of "Far from the madding
> >crowd". covering the fresh stacks during a storm?
> >
> Growing up in Indiana I remember haystacks in the dome-like shape. At
> some point the change was made to hay rolls, but I don't know when.
>
> I suspect that it had something to do with the development of the farm
> machine that cuts, rolls, and wraps the hay. Prior to having those,
> farmers hand-built the stacks with pitchforks.

Cutting and rolling are done with different machines.
The grass must dry in the field before it can be rolled into bales.
In between comes a machine that turns the grass over,
and rakes it to aligns it for the round baler,

Jan

PS The French have such a machine too,
which goes by the incomprehensible name of a ' roumballeur',

[J. J. Lodder]

Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
In England the covering yes/no depends on the weather forecast, afaik.
In France they are usually not covered,
and you may drive for kilometers through floating hay shreds
when there is a truck upstream of you on the road,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-04-06 09:05:52 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

>>
>> [ … ]

>>
> Cutting and rolling are done with different machines.
> The grass must dry in the field before it can be rolled into bales.
> In between comes a machine that turns the grass over,
> and rakes it to aligns it for the round baler,
>
> Jan
>
> PS The French have such a machine too,
> which goes by the incomprehensible name of a ' roumballeur',

No hay in this part of the world, so "roumballeur" is not a word I've
ever needed.


--
athel

[Sam Plusnet]

On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.

Annual Rainfall.

Oslo 763mm
Amsterdam 805mm

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Young]

But what about Bergen?

Tourist to Bergen youth: Does it rain here all the time?
Bergen youth: I don't know. I'm only thirteen.

Having said that, every time I've been in Bergen it's been dry and sunny.

[Ken Blake]

I don't know which of those has more frequent rain, but I wanted to
point out that the amount of rain and its frequency are two different
things.

--
Ken

[J. J. Lodder]

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2020-04-06 09:05:52 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
> >>

> >> [ - ]

>
> >>
> > Cutting and rolling are done with different machines.
> > The grass must dry in the field before it can be rolled into bales.
> > In between comes a machine that turns the grass over,
> > and rakes it to aligns it for the round baler,
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > PS The French have such a machine too,
> > which goes by the incomprehensible name of a ' roumballeur',
>
> No hay in this part of the world, so "roumballeur" is not a word I've
> ever needed.

Sure? You might like
<https://www.tours-in-provence.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/10
/van-gogh-la-moisson-gd-1024x680.jpg>
and the mountains and buildings in the backgrund might look familiar.

There would seen to be a huge haystack in the foreground,

Jan

[Tony Cooper]

Bergen, Norway, where my SAS flight made a stop:

2250mm

We briefly deplaned, and I stood on the tarmac, glanced around, and
remarked to an airport employee "Lovely scenery, too bad it's
raining". He laughed.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 3:41:44 PM UTC-4, Peter Young wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> >> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
> > Annual Rainfall.
>
> > Oslo 763mm
> > Amsterdam 805mm
>
> But what about Bergen?
>
> Tourist to Bergen youth: Does it rain here all the time?
> Bergen youth: I don't know. I'm only thirteen.
>
> Having said that, every time I've been in Bergen it's been dry and sunny.

Same for me and Vancouver (BC, not WA).

[RH Draney]

Here in Phoenix, the average annual rainfall is seven inches...but you
wouldn't want to be here on the day it falls....r

[bil...@shaw.ca]

It used to rain a lot in Vancouver this time of year. This week,
every day is forecast to be sunny, with daily highs climbing up
to 14 C. Oh, and the cherry and plum trees are in bloom.

bill

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

My Concise Oxford Atlas (1958, approximately) is in my office, and I'm
not, so I can't quote accurate numbers, but

Wettest month in London: August 60 mm
Dryest month in New York: February 75 mm

One's prejudices in these matters are not necessarily correct.

I refer to an old atlas, because the information may have changed.


--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

To be fair, it rains only about 20 days a month, on average.
Someone I knew could get a very good job there,
a full professosship, with tenure.
His wife said he would have to get a divorce first,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/04/20 05:30, Peter Young wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>
>> Annual Rainfall.
>
>> Oslo 763mm
>> Amsterdam 805mm
>
> But what about Bergen?
>
> Tourist to Bergen youth: Does it rain here all the time?
> Bergen youth: I don't know. I'm only thirteen.
>
> Having said that, every time I've been in Bergen it's been dry and sunny.

A few years ago my car was rear-ended while I was waiting in a queue at
traffic lights. The road was straight, visibility was excellent, so why
didn't the driver stop in time?

When I saw the age of the driver, I understood. If she'd only been
driving for two or three years, she had probably never before driven in
rain.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

I noticed something similar when I moved from Melbourne (Victoria) to
Newcastle (NSW). Apparently Melbourne only got about half of Newcastle's
annual rainfall. But Melbourne _felt_ a lot wetter, because the rain
came down as fine drizzle. Not much water per hour, but it fell for many
hours.

In Newcastle it was dry most of the time, but every so often the gods
would drop a lake on the city.

All of the above is past tense because the climate has changed so much.
Our present rainfall is much lower, I think, and we no longer get those
short heavy storms.

[J. J. Lodder]

It -is- changing, generaly in the direction of more rain.
The reason is climatic change, so warmer sea water.
This has been going on for as long as systematic measurements exist.
For the Netherlands for example the average anual rain
is increasing linearly, by about 25%/100years over the last century,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

The subject was making hay while the sun shines.
That means cutting, letting it dry in the sun,
and getting it in before the next rain comes.
Chances of pulling that off are -much- better in southern France
than in Norway.
What you need is a sufficiently long dry and sunny spell.

So the bales getting usually wrapped in Norway,
and not in southern France is not really surprising,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-04-07 07:48:26 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 07/04/20 16:46, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2020-04-06 19:21:23 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>>
>>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>>
>>> Annual Rainfall.
>>>
>>> Oslo 763mm
>>> Amsterdam 805mm
>>
>> My Concise Oxford Atlas (1958, approximately) is in my office, and I'm
>> not, so I can't quote accurate numbers, but
>>
>> Wettest month in London: August 60 mm
>> Dryest month in New York: February 75 mm
>>
>> One's prejudices in these matters are not necessarily correct.
>>
>> I refer to an old atlas, because the information may have changed.
>
> I noticed something similar when I moved from Melbourne (Victoria) to
> Newcastle (NSW). Apparently Melbourne only got about half of Newcastle's
> annual rainfall. But Melbourne _felt_ a lot wetter, because the rain
> came down as fine drizzle. Not much water per hour, but it fell for many
> hours.
>
> In Newcastle it was dry most of the time, but every so often the gods
> would drop a lake on the city.

Similar when I moved from Birmingham to Marseilles: one has the
impression that it doesn't rain much here, but when it does it comes in
great dollops.

>
> All of the above is past tense because the climate has changed so much.
> Our present rainfall is much lower, I think, and we no longer get those
> short heavy storms.


--

athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

If you drive on the highway past Langres in the north of France you see
a sculpture called Le Soleil de Langres
(https://www.tourisme-langres.com/fr/SOLEIL-LANGRES-01_le-soleil-de-langres).
It has always been raining when I've passed it, and I assume it's there
so that the citizens of Langres will recognize the sun if they ever
come across it.


--
athel

[charles]

In article <hf2vio...@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden

On holiday in Normandy a few years ago we spotted this tea towel: Two
weather aps of France; one with sun over Normandy and rain elsewhere, the
other with rain over Normandy and sun elsewhere. They were labelled (and I
translate) "The Dream" & "Reality"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/04/20 18:11, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>> My Concise Oxford Atlas (1958, approximately) is in my office, and
>> I'm not, so I can't quote accurate numbers, but
>>
>> Wettest month in London: August 60 mm Dryest month in New York:
>> February 75 mm
>>
>> One's prejudices in these matters are not necessarily correct.
>>
>> I refer to an old atlas, because the information may have changed.
>
> It -is- changing, generaly in the direction of more rain. The reason
> is climatic change, so warmer sea water. This has been going on for
> as long as systematic measurements exist. For the Netherlands for
> example the average anual rain is increasing linearly, by about
> 25%/100years over the last century,

Here, the change is in the opposite direction: we are getting less and
less rain, to the point where I suspect that some of the farmland inland
from here will have to be abandoned.

The reason, I gather, is because of the temperature of currents in the
Indian Ocean, which affects factors like ocean evaporation. The Indian
Ocean is an entire continent away from me, but it governs my fate anyway.

[J. J. Lodder]

Idem. And if not raining at the very least a dreary grey cloud cover.
And, cross thread alert,
it is close to the 'Ligne de Partage des Eaux',
which is also indicated by the side of the autoroute.

It always surprised me that it is that far to the North,
same as with the Langue D'Oc/Oïl signs,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/04/20 21:07, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>> If you drive on the highway past Langres in the north of France
>> you see a sculpture called Le Soleil de Langres
>> (https://www.tourisme-langres.com/fr/SOLEIL-LANGRES-01_le-soleil-de-langres).
>>
>>
>> It has always been raining when I've passed it, and I assume it's
>> there so that the citizens of Langres will recognize the sun if
>> they ever come across it.
>
> Idem. And if not raining at the very least a dreary grey cloud cover.
> And, cross thread alert, it is close to the 'Ligne de Partage des
> Eaux', which is also indicated by the side of the autoroute.

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a sign. In this country,
the only comparable sign is when you cross a local maximum and see a
sign like "Great Dividing Range, xxx metres". And the xxx is never very
large because of course the highway has been routed through a low pass.

I suspect that it's only the hydrologists who know where the watersheds
are. The rest of us can make guesses from contour maps, but in fact
contour maps seem to be less common than they used to be.

[J. J. Lodder]

Same thing, the deserts are moving northward,
that is southwards for you.
North Africa and Southern Spain are drying out too,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Here is a typical one
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Partage_Rhin_
Rhone.jpg/800px-Partage_Rhin_Rhone.jpg>

Jan

[Tony Cooper]

During the summer rainy season in Florida we have days of very heavy
rain, but it's over in an hour or so. If we're going somewhere it may
be pouring outside but we go anyway. By the time we get to the
destination the rain has stopped and the sandy soil in Florida has
absorbed the water. It's like the rain never happened.

[Peter Moylan]

I miss those storms. I remember a time when a violent storm would
arrive. We had thunder, and lightning, and very heavy rain. I used to
sit on the back porch at such times; I was protected from the rain, but
it fell right in front of me, and it was obvious that I might drown if I
stepped out into it.

An hour later, the storm was over, and all the water had evaporated.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Mon, 06 Apr 2020 23:13:17 GMT, RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

> On 4/6/2020 1:49 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 20:21:23 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>>
>>> Annual Rainfall.
>>>
>>> Oslo 763mm
>>> Amsterdam 805mm
>>
>> Bergen, Norway, where my SAS flight made a stop:
>>
>> 2250mm
>>
>> We briefly deplaned, and I stood on the tarmac, glanced around, and

I deplore 'deplane', I'd much rather depend in a swimming pool.

>> remarked to an airport employee "Lovely scenery, too bad it's
>> raining". He laughed.
>
> Here in Phoenix, the average annual rainfall is seven inches...but you
> wouldn't want to be here on the day it falls....r
>
>

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

AIUI some places (Alice Springs) the current population (+ americans &
tourists) are having to rely on boreholes that are extracting water last
seeing the light of day some tens of thousands of years back; once that's
gone ...

https://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/2016/02/22/new-10-year-water-plan-
for-alice-springs-same-old-same-old/

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:39:11 GMT, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
wrote:

Clearly European borders need redrawing:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Europ%C3%
A4ische_Wasserscheiden.png

[J. J. Lodder]

Conversely, sea level rise will get you,
no matter how many dikes you build around Florida.
The sea water will just pass under them,

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

I was there in July (probably) '74 and August '94.

[Peter T. Daniels]

There's such a sign on I-80, the Interstate from New York to Chicago
and beyond, somewhere in western Pennsylvania, marking the divide
between the Atlantic and Mississippi watersheds.

And on our bus tour of the Canadian Rockies, they took us to a spot
where a tiny spring was bubbling up, its trickle dividing into two
streams -- one heading for the Pacific, one heading for the Atlantic.

Wild strawberries grew there.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:23:01 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
<nots...@invalid.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Apr 2020 23:13:17 GMT, RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2020 1:49 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 20:21:23 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>>>
>>>> Annual Rainfall.
>>>>
>>>> Oslo 763mm
>>>> Amsterdam 805mm
>>>
>>> Bergen, Norway, where my SAS flight made a stop:
>>>
>>> 2250mm
>>>
>>> We briefly deplaned, and I stood on the tarmac, glanced around, and
>
>I deplore 'deplane', I'd much rather depend in a swimming pool.

If you have an incontinence problem, I suppose wearing Depends would
halt the yellow cloud in the water.

>
>
>>> remarked to an airport employee "Lovely scenery, too bad it's
>>> raining". He laughed.
>>
>> Here in Phoenix, the average annual rainfall is seven inches...but you
>> wouldn't want to be here on the day it falls....r
>>
>>
--

[Tony Cooper]

Are you suggesting that even if we make like a Dutch boy and give the
dike the finger that it will be to no avail?

[J. J. Lodder]

Great idea. Give all those parts of England that nobody wants
to the Irish,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think most of the bits worth having were grabbed by the English
centuries ago. It was obvious once when I drove from Birmingham to
Aberystwyth: as soon one crossed the border into Wales the land that
wasn't much use for anything began.



--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

That's it.

Jan

[Janet]

In article <8r0p8flk5d5ne0cfg...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@invalid.com says...

In Scotland, " we have days of very heavy rain" = " days when it
rains heavily and continually all day long."

Janet

[Ken Blake]

We have two rainy seasons here in southern Arizona: one in the summer
with light rain, often all day long, and one in the winter with heavy
rain, typically in 15-minute thunderstorms.


--
Ken

[Jerry Friedman]

We've gone crazy with that stuff in some areas. Where I grew up, there
are now road signs for a watershed that covers maybe 6 square miles.

http://www.millcreekpartnership.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mill_Creek_Action_Plan_Draft.pdf

(The map on page 13 shows an area something like 4 miles wide.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

On 06-Apr-20 20:30, Peter Young wrote:
> On 6 Apr 2020 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>

>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>
>> Annual Rainfall.
>
>> Oslo 763mm
>> Amsterdam 805mm
>

> But what about Bergen?
>
> Tourist to Bergen youth: Does it rain here all the time?
> Bergen youth: I don't know. I'm only thirteen.
>

> Having said that, every time I've been in Bergen it's been dry and sunny.
>

Oh indeed. Bergen was the very first place about which I heard the-

"If you can see across the fjord/lake/estuary/valley it's about to rain.
If you can't see across the fjord/lake/estuary/valley it's already raining."

-joke, when my brother-in-law was stationed there during his national
service.

But JJ made reference to the (whole) country, so giving figures for the
capital cities seemed the best compromise.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Mark Brader]

Jan Lodder:

>> And, cross thread alert, it is close to the 'Ligne de Partage des
>> Eaux', which is also indicated by the side of the autoroute.

Peter Moylan:

> Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a sign. In this country,
> the only comparable sign is when you cross a local maximum and see a
> sign like "Great Dividing Range, xxx metres". And the xxx is never very
> large because of course the highway has been routed through a low pass.

Such signs are common on highways in North America that cross the
Great Divide, aka Continental Divide, which separates Pacific and
Atlantic/Arctic drainage. Try a Google Images search on "continental
divide sign" for many examples. At one of the passes in Colorado --
Independence Pass -- the elevation is over 12,000 feet (or for you,
it's almost 3,700 m).

In Canada, a considerable length of the Divide also forms the provincial
boundary between Alberta and BC.

Other pass summits are also sometimes marked with their elevation, but
usually without any indication of which watersheds they form a divide
between.

It is not so common for the boundary between Atlantic and Arctic Ocean
drainage to be marked, partly because it isn't so obvious where the
line should be drawn from. But if Hudson Bay and Hudson Strait are
counted as part of the Arctic Ocean, then the meeting point of the
drainage to the three oceans is marked by the *name* of Triple Divide
Peak in Montana. ObMap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NorthAmerica-WaterDivides.png
--
Mark Brader That would be the opposite of "non idiotic",
Toronto assuming there's some good word for that.
m...@vex.net --Ken Jennings

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Jerry Friedman]

Strangely enough, our summer "monsoon" rains in New Mexico are often
short thunderstorms, and our winter rains and snows can go on for a long
time.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

It's not strange at all. It's the same in southern Arizona. What I wrote
is backwards. Sorry.


--
Ken

[Peter Moylan]

The Great Artesian Basin covers a huge chunk of eastern Australia. (But
doesn't, as far as I know, reach as far as Alice Springs.) In much of
this region it hardly ever rains, but farmers can survive because of the
underground water.

In recent years there has been considerable concern about the water
being poisoned by the toxic chemicals used in fracking. Now there's a
new worry: plans to open huge new coal mines just where they are most
likely to pollute the water. It could put hundreds of farms out of business.

Unfortunately, our present federal government is owned by the mining
lobby. It's been heading towards becoming the ex-government in 2022, but
sitting governments tend to be re-elected at times of national crisis.

[Quinn C]

* Ken Blake:

> On 4/6/2020 12:21 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>
>> Annual Rainfall.
>>
>> Oslo 763mm
>> Amsterdam 805mm
>

> I don't know which of those has more frequent rain, but I wanted to
> point out that the amount of rain and its frequency are two different
> things.

I thought so, too, and checked - Amsterdam has 133 "precipitation days"
(> 1mm), Oslo only 114.

A few more for comparison: London 110, Edinburgh 124, Frankfurt &
Vancouver 169, Bergen 196.

And to highlight the difference between frequency and amount: Darjeeling
105.

--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220

[Quinn C]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

> On Sat, 04 Apr 2020 12:34:29 -0400, Tony Cooper
> <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Growing up in Indiana I remember haystacks in the dome-like shape. At
>>some point the change was made to hay rolls, but I don't know when.
>>
>>I suspect that it had something to do with the development of the farm
>>machine that cuts, rolls, and wraps the hay. Prior to having those,
>>farmers hand-built the stacks with pitchforks.
>
> As in this painting "BUILDING THE HAYRICK by HERBERT ROYLE":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photosnew/dealer_ciderhousegalleries/dealer_ciderhousegalleries_superhighres_1557330869270-4466472440.jpg
>
> It is available to buy for "£2,900 | $3,861 USD | €3,286 EUR":
> https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/620584/building-the-hayrick-oil-painting-by-herbert-royle/
>
> That is how I remember haystacks/hayricks from my childhood.

Looks more like a rickroll.

--
Just because we had a thing for 150 years, don't presume that
you know me.
-- Darla, Angel S02E09

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/7/20 5:46 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 4/7/2020 2:03 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 4/7/20 12:15 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

...

>>> We have two rainy seasons here in southern Arizona: one in the summer
>>> with light rain, often all day long, and one in the winter with heavy
>>> rain, typically in 15-minute thunderstorms.
>>
>> Strangely enough, our summer "monsoon" rains in New Mexico are often
>> short thunderstorms, and our winter rains and snows can go on for a long
>> time.
>
>
>
> It's not strange at all. It's the same in southern Arizona. What I wrote
> is backwards. Sorry.

Ah, OK.

My yard this morning:

https://imgur.com/a/WDeY0rS

--
Jerry Friedman

[Cheryl]

On 2020-04-13 9:38 p.m., Quinn C wrote:
> * Ken Blake:
>
>> On 4/6/2020 12:21 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>>
>>> Annual Rainfall.
>>>
>>> Oslo 763mm
>>> Amsterdam 805mm
>>
>> I don't know which of those has more frequent rain, but I wanted to
>> point out that the amount of rain and its frequency are two different
>> things.
>
> I thought so, too, and checked - Amsterdam has 133 "precipitation days"
> (> 1mm), Oslo only 114.
>
> A few more for comparison: London 110, Edinburgh 124, Frankfurt &
> Vancouver 169, Bergen 196.
>
> And to highlight the difference between frequency and amount: Darjeeling
> 105.
>

What dry climates! My part of Newfoundland has 212 precipitation days
and 1534 mm of precipitation a year on average.

--
Cheryl

[Don P]

> On 07/04/20 21:07, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> . . .it is close to the 'Ligne de Partage des

>> Eaux', which is also indicated by the side of the autoroute.

On 07-Apr-20 7:39 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a sign. In this country,
> the only comparable sign is when you cross a local maximum and see a
> sign like "Great Dividing Range, xxx metres". And the xxx is never very
> large because of course the highway has been routed through a low pass.

It is decades since I drove north through Ontario toward Hudson's Bay,
but I remember a roadside marker somewhere pointing out that beyond
this point all rivers drain north to the Arctic Ocean rather than east
to the Atlantic.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Ken Blake]

On 4/13/2020 5:08 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Ken Blake:
>
>> On 4/6/2020 12:21 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 06-Apr-20 10:05, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Norway is the country where it really rains all the time.
>>>
>>> Annual Rainfall.
>>>
>>> Oslo 763mm
>>> Amsterdam 805mm
>>
>> I don't know which of those has more frequent rain, but I wanted to
>> point out that the amount of rain and its frequency are two different
>> things.
>
> I thought so, too, and checked - Amsterdam has 133 "precipitation days"
> (> 1mm), Oslo only 114.
>
> A few more for comparison: London 110, Edinburgh 124, Frankfurt &
> Vancouver 169, Bergen 196.
>
> And to highlight the difference between frequency and amount: Darjeeling
> 105.

You can highlight it if you want to, but that's not my cup of tea.


--
Ken

[Quinn C]

* Cheryl:

So have you considered planting tea? As I think someone else has pointed
out, Bergen gets over 2,000 mm of precipitation a year. Almost as much
as Darjeeling (the city), but I'm afraid they're in the wrong months for
tea.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Mark Brader]

Don Phillipson:

> It is decades since I drove north through Ontario toward Hudson's Bay,

It must be. As far as I can tell from a quick look through some old maps,
the "'s" disappeared from the name about 150 years ago.

> but I remember a roadside marker somewhere pointing out that beyond
> this point all rivers drain north to the Arctic Ocean rather than east
> to the Atlantic.

For greater clarity: there are no roads to Hudson Bay, but Ontario's
highway 11 comes within about 150 miles of it, which means that it
crosses the divide in question. Provided that you count Hudson Bay
as part of the Arctic Ocean, that is. (The IHO's 2002 draft standard
does, but its official standard from 1953 doesn't count bays and seas
as parts of oceans at all.)
--
Mark Brader "It is hard to believe that any Biblical passage,
Toronto no matter how powerful, could make an entire
m...@vex.net Soviet submarine crew speak English and not even
realize they were doing it." --Mark Leeper

[Cheryl]

Wrong temperature for tea, I'm pretty sure. But the comparison does make
all those complaints from the early colonial leadership more
understandable. They always seemed to be getting sick due to the poor
housing that let in the horrible weather - and needing to make trips to
England or Bermuda before winter set in and the storms arrived. That, of
course, meant they wouldn't be back until spring.

--
Cheryl

[Peter Young]

On 14 Apr 2020 m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Don Phillipson:
>> It is decades since I drove north through Ontario toward Hudson's Bay,

> It must be. As far as I can tell from a quick look through some old maps,
> the "'s" disappeared from the name about 150 years ago.

>> but I remember a roadside marker somewhere pointing out that beyond
>> this point all rivers drain north to the Arctic Ocean rather than east
>> to the Atlantic.

> For greater clarity: there are no roads to Hudson Bay, but Ontario's
> highway 11 comes within about 150 miles of it, which means that it
> crosses the divide in question. Provided that you count Hudson Bay
> as part of the Arctic Ocean, that is. (The IHO's 2002 draft standard
> does, but its official standard from 1953 doesn't count bays and seas
> as parts of oceans at all.)

Interesting. My brother, Montreal resident since 1971, hardly uses the
word "sea" at all. In his speech any piece of unbounded salt water is
referred to as "ocean".

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-04-14 18:37:10 +0000, Peter Young said:

> On 14 Apr 2020 m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>> Don Phillipson:
>>> It is decades since I drove north through Ontario toward Hudson's Bay,
>
>> It must be. As far as I can tell from a quick look through some old maps,
>> the "'s" disappeared from the name about 150 years ago.
>
>>> but I remember a roadside marker somewhere pointing out that beyond
>>> this point all rivers drain north to the Arctic Ocean rather than east
>>> to the Atlantic.
>
>> For greater clarity: there are no roads to Hudson Bay, but Ontario's
>> highway 11 comes within about 150 miles of it, which means that it
>> crosses the divide in question. Provided that you count Hudson Bay
>> as part of the Arctic Ocean, that is. (The IHO's 2002 draft standard
>> does, but its official standard from 1953 doesn't count bays and seas
>> as parts of oceans at all.)
>
> Interesting. My brother, Montreal resident since 1971, hardly uses the
> word "sea" at all. In his speech any piece of unbounded salt water is
> referred to as "ocean".

My American daughters likewise use "ocean" for what I call "sea".

--
athel

[Tony Cooper]

In Florida, when we go to the beach on the east coast, it's the
"seaside". The water is the ocean.

If we go to the beach on the west coast, it's the "bayside" and the
water is the bay.

[Peter T. Daniels]

The water along the US East Coast is the Atlantic Ocean, except on the
lee side of the barrier islands that protect the coast for much of it,
but even there the resorts are usually on the ocean side and not the
bay side.

Britain, on the other hand, is pretty much surrounded by seas (and a
Channel and Strait), not by open ocean -- the North, the Celtic, the
Irish; except that the west side of Scotland is open to the ocean.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Not the gulf? I know that gulfside seems wrong, but surely the water
off the west coast of Florida is the Gulf of Mexico.

bill

[Peter T. Daniels]

The beach must be on Tampa Bay, not out on the Gulf.

A pity that with all that coastline they only have one beach.