Thee United States or ther United States( in pronunciation)?
Gilwon LEE
I am a high school teacher. When I was young, I learned that the
first part of the United States is a semi-vowel or semi-consonant so I have
pronounced the word "theer United States" But, whenever I heard "the United
States" on TV or the kind, "navtive speakers (especially from the US) almost
always pronounce like "thee United States, not ther ..." Even the native
speakers in the audio cassette tape for the high school readers pronounce
like "thee United States."
Which is right, or both are right, or the pronunciation rules have been
changing? I am looking forward to good answers from "the native speakers of
English."
Thanks in advance.
PS : Would you please let me know where you from when you answer the
question? I would like to know the regional difference of the matter of
"the."
GrapeApe
>first part of the United States is a semi-vowel or semi-consonant so I have
>pronounced the word "theer United States" But, whenever I heard "the United
>States" on TV or the kind, "navtive speakers (especially from the US) almost
>always pronounce like "thee United States, not ther ..." Even the native
>speakers in the audio cassette tape for the high school readers pronounce
>like "thee United States."
Are you using the non-rhotic 'Thur" as in "Winnie Thur Pooh"?
Thing is, Americans might also say Thur, rhotically, with an R, in a similar
way that Newt Gingrich might mention working in "Warshington".
Thuh and Thee are pretty interchangeable, and Americans do not usually
distinguish between their usage, although they may be more likely to use one or
the other depending on what other words are in the neighborhood, but not
consciously. They may take care to say "Thee" when "the" is to be emphasized
for clarity, but they are from thuh USA, and know what is acceptable when
talking about thuh United States Of America.
That being said, I think in public speaking, or broadcasting, you may be
slightly more likely to hear "Thee United States", due to surrounding habits of
more precise articulation as these situations may need. Either is correct.
Thur United States (Rhotic) would be considered non-standard.
Richard Fontana
> Hi, everyone!
> I am a high school teacher. When I was young, I learned that the
> first part of the United States is a semi-vowel or semi-consonant so I have
> pronounced the word "theer United States"
I assume you mean non-rhotic schwa "the", /D@/.
> But, whenever I heard "the United
> States" on TV or the kind, "navtive speakers (especially from the US) almost
> always pronounce like "thee United States, not ther ..." Even the native
> speakers in the audio cassette tape for the high school readers pronounce
> like "thee United States."
> Which is right, or both are right, or the pronunciation rules have been
> changing? I am looking forward to good answers from "the native speakers of
> English."
I think you're asking about /D@/ vs. /Di/. In the US "the" in "the United
States" is nearly always /D@/ in ordinary standard speech. /Di/ might be
used by pretentious broadcasters (which perhaps you've been listening to),
or by ordinary speakers when (a) they are speaking emphatically or
extra-clearly, or (b) when they are speaking haltingly as they search for
their words (there often /Di/ would be followed by "uh" (= UK "er"),
etc.). So you're basically right; you've been listening to some
misleading materials.
> PS : Would you please let me know where you from when you answer the
> question? I would like to know the regional difference of the matter of
> "the."
The US of A.
Fabian
"GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
> Thur United States (Rhotic) would be considered non-standard.
I concur. The 'rule' is that /Di:/ (thee) goes with words starting with a
vowel, and /D@/ (thur) with words starting with a consonant, except that
/Ti:/ can be used with any word to add emphasis.
So whether you say /Di:/ or /D@/ depends on whether you are emphasising it
or not. The emphasis rule (the only relevant one in this case) is certainly
current, but I'm not sure about the other ones I mentioned here.
I'm in Britain btw.
--
--
Fabian
The human didn't notice. Did other cats have this problem with their pets?
GrapeApe
>
>I concur.
I'm not sure you do.
You go on to talk about /D@/ and /Di:/ with a schwa or E or i on the end, not
any voiced Rs. Above when I say, Thur United States (Rhotic) I mean that the R
is voiced. I am not talking about the British Ther (non-rhotic). But you may
agree that certainly a version of "the" that rhymes with "Fur" or "concur"
(RHOTIC pronunciation, mind you) is non-standard while going on to argue on
there is a difference in American usage for ("the" rhymes with "Duh") or ("The"
rhymes with "Sea"), when actually Americans are much more lax in interchanging
both pronunciations.
I agree there is a 'rule', not always followed, concerning usage of THEE for
emphasis, but I do not agree there is a "rule" in casual American speech
regarding usage depending on the following word starting with a vowel sound.
>The 'rule' is that /Di:/ (thee) goes with words starting with
>a
>vowel, and /D@/ (thur) with words starting with a consonant, except that
>/Ti:/ can be used with any word to add emphasis.
>
>So whether you say /Di:/ or /D@/ depends on whether you are emphasising
>it
>or not. The emphasis rule (the only relevant one in this case) is certainly
>current, but I'm not sure about the other ones I mentioned here.
>
>I'm in Britain btw.
I'
R H Draney
news:teu4di1...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
>
> "GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
>
> > Thur United States (Rhotic) would be considered non-standard.
>
> I concur. The 'rule' is that /Di:/ (thee) goes with words starting with a
> vowel, and /D@/ (thur) with words starting with a consonant, except that
> /Ti:/ can be used with any word to add emphasis.
>
> So whether you say /Di:/ or /D@/ depends on whether you are emphasising it
> or not. The emphasis rule (the only relevant one in this case) is
certainly
> current, but I'm not sure about the other ones I mentioned here.
It would also depend on whether you consider /j/ a vowel or a consonant...I
can see a case being made for either....r
Peter Moylan
>
>"GrapeApe" <grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote in message
>
>> Thur United States (Rhotic) would be considered non-standard.
>
>I concur. The 'rule' is that /Di:/ (thee) goes with words starting with a
>vowel, and /D@/ (thur) with words starting with a consonant, except that
>/Ti:/ can be used with any word to add emphasis.
In my dialect (Australian) there's a very faint /j/ that gets added in
before a vowel, so that "the apple" sounds a bit like /Dij &p@l/. I suspect
that the same is true for at least some other dialects. The separating
/j/ is almost inaudible, so it doesn't go as far as sounding like
"the yapple", but it's partway there.
One practical consequence of this is that there isn't a huge difference
between "thee United States" and "thuh United States". I suspect that
I say something about halfway in between, unless I'm speaking slowly.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
N.Mitchum
----
> Which is right, or both are right, or the pronunciation rules have been
> changing?
I'm from California, but I don't think that's relevant. It seems
both pronunciations of "the" are correct; some people may insist
there's only one proper way to say it, but that's a misperception.
The first letter of "United" may be treated as a vowel or a
consonant; it will tend to sound like a consonant with increased
stress on the word, and therefore will call for the "thee"
pronunciation.
----NM