Khazi
Berna SLIKKER
What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary, but I found it in
"Here Be Demons", by Esther Friesner.
From the same book: "[...]were the best of friends. That is to say,
they could fight about any subject, savagely, for hours on end, and
never have to couch their arguments in polite terms."
-
Berna Slikker bsli...@bart.nl -- http://www.bart.nl/~bslikker
Please correct any errors in this post.
Gareth Williams
Thus spake bsli...@bart.nl (Berna SLIKKER) :
+What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary, but I found it in
+"Here Be Demons", by Esther Friesner.
kazi, karzy and kars(e)y are in Chambers (appropriately).
I was surprised as I spell it in the way you did and not in any of the
ways they do.
= bog, crapper, loo, ty bach (little house in Welsh)...
regards
Gareth Williams <g...@fmode.demon.co.uk>
Steven Pegg
I understand "khazi" to mean "toilet", although I have no idea of the
word's origins. As far as I know, usage of the word is (or was?) centred
on London, although I may well be mistaken.
Berna SLIKKER (bsli...@bart.nl) wrote:
: What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary, but I found it in
: "Here Be Demons", by Esther Friesner.
: From the same book: "[...]were the best of friends. That is to say,
David Monteith-Hodge
Berna,
It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether Urdu or
Swahili - and I believe it was originally spelt with a leading 'm', as mkhasi.
It was brought into the language by the English as a result of one of their
empire-building tours of East Africa.
Regards,
David
In article <4qbh0j$1...@nosy.bart.nl>,
Berna SLIKKER (bsli...@bart.nl) writes:
>What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary, but I found it in
>"Here Be Demons", by Esther Friesner.
>
>From the same book: "[...]were the best of friends. That is to say,
>they could fight about any subject, savagely, for hours on end, and
>never have to couch their arguments in polite terms."
>
>
>-
>Berna Slikker bsli...@bart.nl -- http://www.bart.nl/~bslikker
>
>Please correct any errors in this post.
>
>
--
David Monteith-Hodge
Veni translation -> : I came,
Vidi : I saw,
Validi : I validated, corrected, fixed,
: fudged, bodged, kludged, made work etc.
Programmers Motto (c)1994 David Monteith-Hodge and Mike Wilding.
Truly Donovan
Gareth Williams wrote:
>
> Thus spake bsli...@bart.nl (Berna SLIKKER) :
>
> +What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary, but I found it in
> +"Here Be Demons", by Esther Friesner.
>
> kazi, karzy and kars(e)y are in Chambers (appropriately).
> I was surprised as I spell it in the way you did and not in any of the
> ways they do.
>
> = bog, crapper, loo, ty bach (little house in Welsh)...
In this week's *New Yorker*, it is used in a short story by Martin Amis,
referring to a man in the story as being "built like a brick khazi,"
which is apparently the equivalent of the American expression "built
like a brick shit-house" except that the American expression doesn't
mean quite the same thing. . .(we've done that one haven't we? we don't
have to do it again, do we?).
Truly Donovan
Michael B. Quinion
In article: <4qdri8$i...@news.ox.ac.uk> sjoh...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Steven
> I understand "khazi" to mean "toilet", although I have no idea of the
> word's origins. As far as I know, usage of the word is (or was?)
> centred on London, although I may well be mistaken.
I would largely agree with that, or at least that the word has come into
informal English from London speech. Its origin is sometimes asserted
to be in Polari, the cant of showmen, circus folk and theatre people (but
now largely restricted to big-city male homosexuals, which is why it is
sometimes called 'Gayspeak'), which is in origin part Italian and part
remnants of the old lingua franca of the Mediterranean, plus some words
from Romany and Irish Gaelic, with the odd bit of rhyming slang mixed in.
The suggestion is that the word 'karsey' (the spelling I prefer) is a
corrupted form of Italian 'casa' (house). See:
<http://clever.net/quinion/words/polari.htm>
for more about Polari than you probably want to know!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B Quinion <mic...@quinion.demon.co.uk> Thornbury, Bristol, UK
Michael Quinion Associates home page : <http://clever.net/mqa/>
World Wide Words : <http://clever.net/quinion/words/>
John Nurick
da...@monteith.win-uk.net (David Monteith-Hodge) wrote:
>It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether Urdu or
>Swahili - and I believe it was originally spelt with a leading 'm', as mkhasi.
>
>It was brought into the language by the English as a result of one of their
>empire-building tours of East Africa.
>
"Khazi" isn't Swahili and Urdu isn't an African language. "Leading m's"
and the like in Swahili aren't spelling choices but a system of
prefixes as integral to the language as articles are to French.
Kazi (karsey, etc.) got into English via the Army; I suspect you are
right in suggesting Urdu (British troops in India); perhaps someone
with a big dictionary not in a packing case could settle it?
--
Best wishes
John Nurick
e-mail: j.nu...@dial.pipex.com
v-mail: <+44|0> 191 281 1306
Bernard Morey
Steven Pegg wrote:
>
> I understand "khazi" to mean "toilet", although I have no idea of the
> word's origins. As far as I know, usage of the word is (or was?)
> centred on London, although I may well be mistaken.
Isn't this of military origin -- possible India?
--
Bernie Morey
Melbourne, Australia
bmo...@aardvark.apana.org.au
Ash Nallawalla
In <4qg75o$2...@soap.news.pipex.net> John Nurick <j.nu...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
>da...@monteith.win-uk.net (David Monteith-Hodge) wrote:
>>It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether Urdu or
>>Swahili - and I believe it was originally spelt with a leading 'm', as mkhasi.
>Kazi (karsey, etc.) got into English via the Army; I suspect you are
>right in suggesting Urdu (British troops in India);
Can't say I have ever heard this meaning for Kazi in India, where the Urdu meaning
is "judge". Khazi neither.
--
Managing Editor, PC Update; Vice-President, Melb PC
Director, Association of Personal Computer User Groups
Gareth Williams
Thus spake a...@home.melbpc.org.au (Ash Nallawalla) :
+In <4qg75o$2...@soap.news.pipex.net> John Nurick <j.nu...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
+>da...@monteith.win-uk.net (David Monteith-Hodge) wrote:
+
+>>It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether Urdu or
+>>Swahili - and I believe it was originally spelt with a leading 'm', as mkhasi.
+
+>Kazi (karsey, etc.) got into English via the Army; I suspect you are
+>right in suggesting Urdu (British troops in India);
+
+Can't say I have ever heard this meaning for Kazi in India, where the Urdu meaning
+is "judge". Khazi neither.
My Chambers agrees with Michael Quinlon who posted earlier - it has
Italian CASA as a _possible_ origin. Haven't got my OED with me.
Hence little house.
I suspect a back formation to match words like KHYBER which is a
related subject.
( note for US - Khyber Pass = rhyming slang for Arse/Ass)
regards
Gareth Williams <g...@fmode.demon.co.uk>
N.R. Mitchum
Quoting bsli...@bart.nl (Berna SLIKKER),
g...@fmode.demon.co.uk (Gareth Williams) wrote:
----------
>+What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary [...]
>
>kazi, karzy and kars(e)y are in Chambers (appropriately).
>I was surprised as I spell it in the way you did and not in any
of the
>ways they do.
>
>= bog, crapper, loo, ty bach (little house in Welsh)...
So that's it. I've heard the word used in British comedies and
imagined it to be spelled "carzy" or somesuch. (I have a chamber
but no Chambers ... say, why do politicians spend so much time
"in chambers"?)
While the meaning has always been self-evident, its precise
shading remains unclear to me. In context the word seems just
slightly less coarse than "loo" and considerably more polite
than "bog" and "crapper." Where exactly on the gentility scale
does it lie? What sorts of people are likelier to take
exception
to hearing it spoken over the dinner table? How often does it
occur?
While we're on the subject, what about the use of "toilet"?
Americans (this American, anyway) hesitate to pronounce that
word in public. For us it denotes a practical piece of porcelain
plumbing rather than the space that accommodates it. In the same
category as "bidet" -- and possibly "enema" or "douche bag."
Therefore, when we have to shout over the noise of a busy pub,
"Where's the toilet?" we are apt to feel some embarrassment and
must sternly remind ourselves that we aren't really telling
everbody in the room that we need to evacuate. (It's not nearly
so bad in French.)
The British however seem to have no trouble with our "rest room"
and "bathroom." I cannot remember their using these particular
euphemisms: is this because the terms aren't in their own
vocabulary, or simply because I don't register the too-familiar
words?
N.R.Mitchum <aj...@lafn.org>
(my wife knows how to make her own toilet)
[Mail&Post]
Mike Barnes
"N.R. Mitchum" <aj...@mail.lafn.org> wrote...
>Quoting bsli...@bart.nl (Berna SLIKKER),
>g...@fmode.demon.co.uk (Gareth Williams) wrote:
>----------
>>+What is a khazi? I can't find it in my dictionary [...]
>>
>>kazi, karzy and kars(e)y are in Chambers (appropriately).
>>I was surprised as I spell it in the way you did and not in any
>of the
>>ways they do.
>>
>>= bog, crapper, loo, ty bach (little house in Welsh)...
>-----------
>
>So that's it. I've heard the word used in British comedies and
>imagined it to be spelled "carzy" or somesuch. (I have a chamber
>but no Chambers ... say, why do politicians spend so much time
>"in chambers"?)
That's lawyers, not politicians. It's the traditional word for a
lawyer's office.
>
>While the meaning has always been self-evident, its precise
>shading remains unclear to me. In context the word seems just
>slightly less coarse than "loo" and considerably more polite
>than "bog" and "crapper." Where exactly on the gentility scale
>does it lie? What sorts of people are likelier to take
>exception
>to hearing it spoken over the dinner table? How often does it
>occur?
It's an older-age-group thing AFAIK. My impression - judging from the
type of people that use it - is that it's military slang. BTW in
Britain military types are generally older than in the USA, because (1)
we had no Vietnam or equivalent, and (2) we used to have conscription
but stopped it in (IIRC) the fifties. I always thought "khazi" was of
arabic origin (imagined WW2 connection I suppose), but this seems to be
wrong. Its use is generally restricted to all-male groups.
>While we're on the subject, what about the use of "toilet"?
>Americans (this American, anyway) hesitate to pronounce that
>word in public. For us it denotes a practical piece of porcelain
>plumbing rather than the space that accommodates it.
It means either, and has no negative connotations in the UK. When in
this country, feel free to use the word anywhere. However in a public
place most would ask for "the toilets" (plural) rather than "the
toilet".
>In the same
>category as "bidet"
That has no negative connotations here either, but as "bidet" is not
used to mean a room, you're less likely to hear it in public.
> -- and possibly "enema"
Different thing altogether, for reasons which I'm sure I don't need to
go into.
>or "douche bag."
Similar.
>Therefore, when we have to shout over the noise of a busy pub,
>"Where's the toilet?" we are apt to feel some embarrassment and
>must sternly remind ourselves that we aren't really telling
>everbody in the room that we need to evacuate. (It's not nearly
>so bad in French.)
I assume you "we" as an American. A Brit would have no problem with
this, although it would be more usual to ask for "the toilets" or "the
Gents" or "the Ladies" (note: these last two are written *always*
without apostrophes).
>The British however seem to have no trouble with our "rest room"
>and "bathroom."
On the contrary, asking where the "bathroom" or "restroom" was in a pub
would usually result in complete bewilderment. Followed, after a pause
for thought, by realisation of what you were actually looking for.
The first phrase I learn in any language is "two beers, please". Even
if that's *all* I know, when I try to ask where the toilets are, the
message usually gets through pretty quickly. Understanding the answer
is often a problem, though.
>I cannot remember their using these particular
>euphemisms: is this because the terms aren't in their own
>vocabulary, or simply because I don't register the too-familiar
>words?
We don't use them at all, even in a private residence where the toilet
is likely to contain a bath. A bathroom is strictly a room containing a
bath (or just possibly a shower). The term "rest room" conjures up the
image of a room containing soft chairs, provided for respite from some
arduous activity.
We do, however, use "loo", "lavatory", "Gents", and "Ladies". And there
are many more less commonly-used euphemisms.
Regards, Mike.
--
Mike Barnes, Stockport, England.
This week's hot tips for the lottery: 12, 14, 23, 32, 38, 34.
Chris Norton
In article <4qjues$f...@zook.lafn.org>, aj...@mail.lafn.org says...
>While the meaning has always been self-evident, its precise
>shading remains unclear to me. In context the word seems just
>slightly less coarse than "loo" and considerably more polite
>than "bog" and "crapper." Where exactly on the gentility scale
>does it lie? What sorts of people are likelier to take
>exception
>to hearing it spoken over the dinner table? How often does it
>occur?
On the gentility scale 'loo' is the most innocuous. You can use this
in almost any company.
'Toilet' - used to be the standard euphemism. Became associated with
the non-U on the Mitford scale. Some purists prefer to use 'lavatory'
which is U ( this is a shibboleth of the British class system for
those who didn't know ). Lavatory, of course, was originally a room for
washing so is itself a euphemism.
'Bog' - popular among schoolkids and rugby players etc. A bit blokeish.
You can probably get away with it if your party are young, might upset
the oldies.
'Crapper' - never heard it used in real life.
'Khazi' - only came to prominence with the old BBC comedy 'Steptoe and
Son', more of a historical curiosity than anything, not in common use.
Chris Norton
Joseph Chacko
In article <4qm2h3$l...@wave.news.pipex.net>
chr...@unipalm.pipex.com "Chris Norton" writes:
> On the gentility scale 'loo' is the most innocuous. You can use this
> in almost any company.
>
> 'Toilet' - used to be the standard euphemism. Became associated with
> the non-U on the Mitford scale. Some purists prefer to use 'lavatory'
> which is U ( this is a shibboleth of the British class system for
> those who didn't know ). Lavatory, of course, was originally a room for
> washing so is itself a euphemism.
>
> 'Bog' - popular among schoolkids and rugby players etc. A bit blokeish.
> You can probably get away with it if your party are young, might upset
> the oldies.
>
> 'Crapper' - never heard it used in real life.
I have used this several times, as have many of my friends (now in their
early twenties). It is also used on an album by the Pixies, an American
group, so I assume that it is not unknown over there.
>
> 'Khazi' - only came to prominence with the old BBC comedy 'Steptoe and
> Son', more of a historical curiosity than anything, not in common use.
I have heard this used several times, and mainly by people who do not
watch Steptoe and Son, and were too young to see it the first time
round.
Also, there is the naval term 'heads'. I do not know its origin.
--
Psst
Daan Sandee
In article <835634...@sheril.demon.co.uk>, Joseph Chacko <j...@sheril.demon.co.uk> writes:
|>
|> Also, there is the naval term 'heads'. I do not know its origin.
On a sailing ship, the heads were planks fixed outside on the bows that
the sailors could clamber down to in order to do their business. In the US,
any restroom (lavatory, to Brits) on board a ship is still call a 'head'
except possibly on the most pretentious cruise ships.
Daan Sandee san...@think.com
Burlington, MA
David Monteith-Hodge
In article <4qjues$f...@zook.lafn.org>, "N.R. Mitchum" (aj...@mail.lafn.org) writes:
>Quoting bsli...@bart.nl (Berna SLIKKER),
>g...@fmode.demon.co.uk (Gareth Williams) wrote:
>----------
>While we're on the subject, what about the use of "toilet"?
>Americans (this American, anyway) hesitate to pronounce that
>word in public. For us it denotes a practical piece of porcelain
>
>
>category as "bidet" -- and possibly "enema" or "douche bag."
>"Where's the toilet?" we are apt to feel some embarrassment and
>must sternly remind ourselves that we aren't really telling
>everbody in the room that we need to evacuate. (It's not nearly
>so bad in French.)
>
Brash Bonsall, former Principal of Birmingham Bible Institute (UK) relates the
tale of a visting cleric from Oz who offended a New York congregation with the
expression :
"It's not unusual to find an Australian bishop in the outback in his shorts."
The congregation's mind seems to have turned in unison to semi-clothed
ablutions.
Regards,
David
--
David Monteith-Hodge
Life I can cope with, but......
Why is Software so damned hard?
&
Why is Hardware so incredibly fragile?
John Davies
san...@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) wrote:
>On a sailing ship, the heads were planks fixed outside on the bows that
>the sailors could clamber down to in order to do their business. In the US,
>any restroom (lavatory, to Brits) on board a ship is still call a 'head'
>except possibly on the most pretentious cruise ships.
>Daan Sandee san...@think.com
>Burlington, MA
In British naval usage this is always heads, never head. There's a
nicely ironic parallel usage, in which the poor unfortunate in charge
of cleaning them out every day is called the Captain of the Heads.
John Davies
KJBlake
In article <aaron_j._dinkin-...@wakma2-3.usa1.com>,
aaron_j...@fourd.com (Aaron J. Dinkin) writes:
>> >> He probably means "august", but I can't tell you what it means, as
I
>> >>don't use the word myself. At least you can now look it up in a
>> >>dictionary, though.
>> Even your minister botches the pronunciation!
>
>Not necessarily. It could be dialectal. Suppose John is nonrhotic and the
>minister has a dialect in which "cot" and "caught" are homophones. Then
>John pronounces "august" [Og@st] and "Argus" [A:g@s]. The minister, on
the
>other hand, who is rhotic, pronounces "august" [Ag@st], which could
easily
>be confused with John's pronunciation of "Argus".
Nope. The accent in the two words is on different syllables.
Aaron J. Dinkin
John didn't indicate, in his original posting, where the stress went in
"Argus". (Yes, john, I know you've replied to this already; I just like to
argue!)
帰aron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Aaron J. Dinkin
> In article <aaron_j._dinkin-...@wakma2-3.usa1.com>,
> aaron_j...@fourd.com (Aaron J. Dinkin) writes:
>
> >> >> He probably means "august", but I can't tell you what it means, as
> >> >>I don't use the word myself. At least you can now look it up in a
> >> >>dictionary, though.
> >> Even your minister botches the pronunciation!
> >
> >Not necessarily. It could be dialectal. Suppose John is nonrhotic and the
> >minister has a dialect in which "cot" and "caught" are homophones. Then
> >John pronounces "august" [Og@st] and "Argus" [A:g@s]. The minister, on
> >the other hand, who is rhotic, pronounces "august" [Ag@st], which could
> >easily be confused with John's pronunciation of "Argus".
>
> Nope. The accent in the two words is on different syllables.
John didn't indicate, in his original posting, where the stress went in
"Argus", which he did not know was an actual word. (Yes, john, I know
Jitze Couperus
In article <31D02C10...@loc251.tandem.com>, Matthew Rabuzzi
<rab...@loc251.tandem.com> wrote:
> John Nurick <j.nu...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
> : da...@monteith.win-uk.net (David Monteith-Hodge) wrote:
> :
> : >It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether
Urdu or
> :
> : "Khazi" isn't Swahili and Urdu isn't an African language. "Leading m's"
>
> Ah, give the ambiguous attributive "African" the benny of the doubt --
> there are certainly a good number of Indians living in East Africa
> (although whether a significant number are Urdu speakers I do not know).
>
No benny required - I can't figure out from the indentations just who it
was who so authoritatively stated that "khazi" was not Swahili.
Given that the spelling of such languages can be somewhat fluid, not
to mention variants between "Swahili safi" and "Swahili ya jikoni" -
but perhaps whoever it was might treat us to what they think the Swahili
word for "work" might be?
Tony Finch
In article <835634...@sheril.demon.co.uk>,
Joseph Chacko <j...@sheril.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4qm2h3$l...@wave.news.pipex.net>
> chr...@unipalm.pipex.com "Chris Norton" writes:
>
> > 'Crapper' - never heard it used in real life.
>
> I have used this several times, as have many of my friends (now in their
> early twenties).
If you had a particularly posh lavatory in late 19th c. England, the
brand name would probably have been Crapper.
Tony.
--
"What it all amounts to is that english
is chiefly a matter of marksmanship."
John Nurick
Matthew Rabuzzi <rab...@loc251.tandem.com> wrote:
>John Nurick <j.nu...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
>: da...@monteith.win-uk.net (David Monteith-Hodge) wrote:
>:
>: >It is originally from an African language - I cannot remember whether Urdu or
>:
>: "Khazi" isn't Swahili and Urdu isn't an African language. "Leading m's"
>
>Ah, give the ambiguous attributive "African" the benny of the doubt --
>there are certainly a good number of Indians living in East Africa
>(although whether a significant number are Urdu speakers I do not know).
>
OK, rephrase:
"It is originally from a British language - I cannot remember whether
Urdu or ..."
Richard Herring
<co...@kindness.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>No real trouble, except the urge to burst out laughing (but not so much
>as with 'comfort station'). A bathroom without a bath in it is a joke.
Nearly as funny as a lavatory where one cannot wash, or a toilet without
a mirror. Other nations' euphemisms always seem more risible than our
own.
Incidentally, if you order a "lavatory set" from a British plumbers'
merchant, he delivers a pair of taps, though not the kind in which one
dances.
--
Richard Herring <ric...@clupeid.demon.co.uk>
Not the one on TV