Frost: belilaced
Marius Hancu
1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
suggest?
Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or
only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in
place, as they seem to be in the poem?
2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it,
So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t."
Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the
"wrong ones mustn't be saved"?
I only found:
----
Mark (4:11): "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the
kingdom ... all these things are done in parables."
----
in a Philip Booth article, but ...
---
DIRECTIVE
...
Then for the house that is no more a house,
But only a belilaced cellar hole,
Now slowly closing like a dent in dough.
...
I have kept hidden in the instep arch
Of an old cedar at the waterside
A broken drinking goblet like the Grail
Under a spell so the wrong ones can’t find it,
So can’t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn’t.
...
Robert Frost, p. 378
http://www.abraword.com/Frost1.htm
---
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
the Omrud
> Hello:
>
> 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
> suggest?
Tee hee. Looks like "beli-laced".
be-lilac-ed. It's got lilacs around it.
> Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or
> only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in
> place, as they seem to be in the poem?
In BrE, it would probably be a man-hole down which the coal man tipped
the coal, directly into the cellar. Not sure if that's what Frost meant.
> 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can�t find it,
> So can�t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn�t."
This, I don't know.
> I have kept hidden in the instep arch
> Of an old cedar at the waterside
> A broken drinking goblet like the Grail
> Under a spell so the wrong ones can�t find it,
> So can�t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn�t.
--
David
CDB
>
> 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
> suggest?
>
include the idea of lace.
>
> Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time,
> or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are
> left in place, as they seem to be in the poem?
>
term AFAIK.
>
> 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can�t find it,
> So can�t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn�t."
>
> Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the
> "wrong ones mustn't be saved"?
>
but he that believeth not shall be damned." The reference to baptism
would be a link with talk of the river, and christening is
traditionally associated with the gift of a silver cup.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>On 27/02/2010 15:36, Marius Hancu wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>
>> Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or
>> only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in
>> place, as they seem to be in the poem?
>
>In BrE, it would probably be a man-hole down which the coal man tipped
>the coal, directly into the cellar. Not sure if that's what Frost meant.
>
Possibly not. I envisage an entrance with a horizont or sloping door or
doors.
This is a British style "coal hole" and cover:
http://www.pbase.com/ivorwolstencroft/image/59542516
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_hole
Entrances to cellars were used in some old pubs. Barrels of beer were
rolled down a wooden slope, "beer skids" (apparently), from street level
into the cellar.
This is modern technology:
http://www.cellaraccess.co.uk/steel-skids-shutes.html
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Marius Hancu
> > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
> > suggest?
>
> I would write it "be-lilac'd", but I suppose he may have wanted to
> include the idea of lace.
>
> > Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time,
> > or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are
> > left in place, as they seem to be in the poem?
>
> Don't think so, during construction; it's possible, but not a standard
> term AFAIK.
>
> > 2. "Under a spell so the wrong ones can t find it,
> > So can t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn t."
>
> > Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the
> > "wrong ones mustn't be saved"?
>
> Maybe Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
> but he that believeth not shall be damned." The reference to baptism
> would be a link with talk of the river, and christening is
> traditionally associated with the gift of a silver cup.
OK.
>
>
> > I only found:
> > ----
> > Mark (4:11): "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the
> > kingdom ... all these things are done in parables."
> > ----
> > in a Philip Booth article, but ...
>
> > ---
> > DIRECTIVE
>
> > ...
> > Then for the house that is no more a house,
> > But only a belilaced cellar hole,
> > Now slowly closing like a dent in dough.
> > ...
>
> > I have kept hidden in the instep arch
> > Of an old cedar at the waterside
> > A broken drinking goblet like the Grail
> > Under a spell so the wrong ones can t find it,
> > So can t get saved, as Saint Mark says they mustn t.
Thank you all.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>horizont
-al
James Silverton
>> On 27/02/2010 15:36, Marius Hancu wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction
>>> time, or only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or
>>> floors are left in place, as they seem to be in the poem?
>>
>> In BrE, it would probably be a man-hole down which the coal
>> man tipped the coal, directly into the cellar. Not sure if
>> that's what Frost meant.
>>
> Possibly not. I envisage an entrance with a horizont or
> sloping door or doors.
> This is a British style "coal hole" and cover:
> http://www.pbase.com/ivorwolstencroft/image/59542516
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_hole
> Entrances to cellars were used in some old pubs. Barrels of
> beer were rolled down a wooden slope, "beer skids"
> (apparently), from street level into the cellar.
> This is modern technology:
> http://www.cellaraccess.co.uk/steel-skids-shutes.html
Such an external cellar entrance might well have lilac bushes planted to
conceal it but my initial thoughts on seeing "belilaced" were
"belly-laced" and it was a few seconds before "be-lilac-ed" came to
mind.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Marius Hancu
> > 1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
> > suggest?
>
> Tee hee. Looks like "beli-laced".
>
> be-lilac-ed. It's got lilacs around it.
Thank you.
Marius Hancu
John Dean
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:41:06 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> horizont
>
> -al
Ah
horizont et al
--
John Dean
Oxford
LFS
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:41:06 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>>> horizont
>> -al
>
> Ah
> horizont et al
And you can call me Betty...
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Jerry Friedman
...
> Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the
> "wrong ones mustn't be saved"?
>
> I only found:
> ----
> Mark (4:11): "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the
> kingdom ... all these things are done in parables."
> ----
> in a Philip Booth article, but ...
John Frederick Nims, in /The Harper Anthology of Poetry/, quotes
Frost's friend Theodore Morrison as saying it was indeed that
passage. "According to Frost, Christ almost said, 'You can't be saved
unless you understand poetry....'"
Frost also said, "The poet is not offering any general salvation--nor
Christian salvation in particular." The key lines are "Cold as a
spring as yet so near its source,/ Too lofty and original to rage" and
"The key word in the whole poem is source--whatever source it is."
--
Jerry Friedman
Marius Hancu
> > Which is the exact Mark reference where it is mentioned that the
> > "wrong ones mustn't be saved"?
>
> > I only found:
> > ----
> > Mark (4:11): "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the
> > kingdom ... all these things are done in parables."
> > ----
> > in a Philip Booth article, but ...
>
> John Frederick Nims, in /The Harper Anthology of Poetry/, quotes
> Frost's friend Theodore Morrison as saying it was indeed that
> passage. "According to Frost, Christ almost said, 'You can't be saved
> unless you understand poetry....'"
Ah, that Ted, married to Kay, who had a short hot liaison with Frost.
> Frost also said, "The poet is not offering any general salvation--nor
> Christian salvation in particular." The key lines are "Cold as a
> spring as yet so near its source,/ Too lofty and original to rage" and
> "The key word in the whole poem is source--whatever source it is."
Thanks for the details.
Marius Hancu
Don Phillipson
news:00de3fc0-3f8d-4d19...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
1. What is "belilaced," in "belilaced cellar hole," or what does it
suggest?
Also, a "cellar hole" does it have this name at construction time, or
only when the houses are in ruins and no walls or floors are left in
place, as they seem to be in the poem?
DIRECTIVE
...
Then for the house that is no more a house,
But only a belilaced cellar hole,
Now slowly closing like a dent in dough.
...
Robert Frost, p. 378
http://www.abraword.com/Frost1.htm
Belilaced is a horrid, pretentious and ugly word,
presumably coined by Frost (with one eye on Whitman.)
Nevertheless the phrase describes well the typical
derelict New England farm site, abandoned since the
19th or early 20th century. Lilacs were the single
most popular decorative shrub, since needing little
or no attention by the pioneer farmer and offering
abundant strongly scented blooms in springtime,
when the melted snow reveals the animal waste
accumulated in the winter months. . . .
Pioneer farms all had a "root cellar" for winter
storage of potatos, turnips, apples etc., and a
cool place for butter and cheese in summer,
usually raw rock walls and a dirt floor under
the farmhouse. After abandoned farmhouses
eventually fell down, all that usually remained
was the belilaced cellar hole.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Nick
Once you realise it's not "beli-laced" that makes sense!
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Peter Moylan
> John Dean wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:41:06 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> horizont
>>> -al
>>
>> Ah
>> horizont et al
>
> And you can call me Betty...
>
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
James Hogg
> LFS wrote:
>> John Dean wrote:
>>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:41:06 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>>>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> horizont
>>>> -al
>>> Ah
>>> horizont et al
>> And you can call me Betty...
>>
> Too late, Betty. Somebody et Al.
Ed.
--
James