Golding: a fourpenny one

Marius Hancu

unread,

Feb 4, 2012, 7:14:33 AM2/4/12

to

Hello:

--
[The boys recall a pig hunt]

"I cut the pig's throat — "

The twins, still sharing their identical grin, jumped up and ran round
each other. Then the rest joined in, making pig-dying noises and
shouting.

"One for his nob!"

"Give him a fourpenny one!"

Then Maurice pretended to be the pig and ran squealing into the
center, and the hunters, circling still, pretended to beat him.

William Golding, Lord of the Flies
---

"Give him a fourpenny one!": ??

--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu

bert

unread,

Feb 4, 2012, 11:11:12 AM2/4/12

to

On Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:14:33 PM UTC, Marius Hancu wrote:
> "Give him a fourpenny one!": ??

Obsolescent BrE slang for a heavily-delivered punch.
Probably much more frequent when LotF was written.
--

Marius Hancu

unread,

Feb 4, 2012, 1:08:20 PM2/4/12

to

On Feb 4, 11:11 am, bert <bert.hutchi...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> > "Give him a fourpenny one!": ??
>
> Obsolescent BrE slang for a heavily-delivered punch.
> Probably much more frequent when LotF was written.

I assumed something like this, but thanks for the confirmation.
I still wonder about its origins.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

the Omrud

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 3:28:43 AM2/7/12

to

I suspect it's London slang, possibly cockney. "Punch 'im up the 'froat!"

--
David

Peter Duncanson (BrE)

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 7:07:37 AM2/7/12

to

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:28:43 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The OED has:

fourpenny one n. colloq. a blow, hit; also, a scolding.

1936 Evening News 29 Feb. 11/6 The chairman rang the lift
bell... Great was our mirth..when the little messenger..said:
'Blimey, guv'nor,..George won't 'alf give you a fourpenny one when
he comes down.'
....

I suspect it is older than that.

A fourpenny piece.

1883 R. L. Stevenson Treasure Island I. i. i. 4 He..promised me
a silver four-penny on the first of every month.

Four pence used to be a much more substantial amount of money than it is
today, so "a fourpenny one" for a punch suggests a substantial blow.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Peter Moylan

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 7:31:09 AM2/7/12

to

It must be many years since groats were circulating in London.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Marius Hancu

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 7:32:20 AM2/7/12

to

On Feb 7, 7:07 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:28:43 +0000, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com>

Thanks for this detail.
Marius Hancu

James Hogg

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 7:55:21 AM2/7/12

to

Eric Partridge suggests rhyming slang, "fourpenny bit" for "hit".

--
James

Donna Richoux

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 7:56:15 AM2/7/12

to

Partridge's Dictionary of Slang says that *presumably* to get/give a
fourpenny one comes from rhyming "Fourpenny bit = hit". But there's
never any certainty when it comes to the origins of slang.

A book on Cockney English, _Muvver Tongue_ (1980) is only on Snippet
View but what I can see appears to indicate that twopenny/fourpenny were
used for metaphorical comparisons of size and strength, so maybe there
was no rhyme involved. They do say there was a lot less rhyming slang in
the early 20th century than people think.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux

Marius Hancu

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 8:18:20 AM2/7/12

to

On Feb 7, 7:55 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

> > On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:28:43 +0000, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com>

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

Athel Cornish-Bowden

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 8:41:51 AM2/7/12

to

On 2012-02-07 13:07:37 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> said:
[ ... ]

>
>
> Four pence used to be a much more substantial amount of money than it is
> today, so "a fourpenny one" for a punch suggests a substantial blow.

Even during our lifetime it was more than an insignificant sum, and you
could buy things you might want with it. WIWAL my parents took the
Daily Telegraph, which cost 3d (or barely more than 1p in today's
money). I remember thinking that The Times at 4d was very expensive.
The Daily Telegraph now costs £1.20, or 288d*, so it has gone up almost
100-fold.

*For those who have forgotten or never knew about the days before
decimalization, there were 240 old pence to a pound, so fourpence was
£0.167.

--
athel

Marius Hancu

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 8:14:04 AM2/7/12

to

On Feb 7, 7:56 am, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:

Thank you, Donna.
Marius Hancu

Leslie Danks

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 10:04:15 AM2/7/12

to

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:41:51 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2012-02-07 13:07:37 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> said:
> [ ... ]
>
>
>>
>> Four pence used to be a much more substantial amount of money than it
>> is today, so "a fourpenny one" for a punch suggests a substantial blow.
>
>
> Even during our lifetime it was more than an insignificant sum, and you
> could buy things you might want with it. WIWAL my parents took the Daily
> Telegraph, which cost 3d (or barely more than 1p in today's money). I
> remember thinking that The Times at 4d was very expensive.

So dishing out a "fourpenny one" meant poking someone in the eye with a
rolled-up copy of the times--the standard way for a gentleman to defend
himself against being attacked by yobs (who would be armed, if at all,
only with the Daily Mirror, or an iron bar, or something equivalently
pusillanimous).

> The Daily
> Telegraph now costs £1.20, or 288d*, so it has gone up almost 100-fold.
>
> *For those who have forgotten or never knew about the days before
> decimalization, there were 240 old pence to a pound, so fourpence was
> £0.167.

--

Les
(BrE)

Leslie Danks

unread,

Feb 7, 2012, 10:10:00 AM2/7/12

to

"Times"

<flagellates self>

--
Les
(BrE)