Expensive finger
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
================
In Germany, drivers who give a policeman or meter maid (= BrE 'traffic
warden'; German "die Politesse") the finger are fined 4,000 Euro
(US=$4,900; UK=£2,715).
This gesture imported from the USA is called "der Stinkefinger."
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Philologist
AUEer Emeritus & Eremitus
Areff
> Expensive finger
>================
> In Germany, drivers who give a policeman or meter maid (= BrE 'traffic
> warden'; German "die Politesse") the finger are fined 4,000 Euro
> (US=$4,900; UK=£2,715).
Say, that's right. So why did Paul McCartney write a song about "Lovely
Rita, Metah Maid" when otherwise the song seems so BrE? Is "meter maid"
as much of an Americanism as, say, "Blackburn, Lancashire"?
--
david56
It is true that "Meter maid" is not native to the UK, although it's
possible to work out its meaning.
One suspects that Macca like the rhyme.
--
David
=====
Areff
> "Areff" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Say, that's right. So why did Paul McCartney write a song about "Lovely
>> Rita, Metah Maid" when otherwise the song seems so BrE? Is "meter maid"
>> as much of an Americanism as, say, "Blackburn, Lancashire"?
>
> cute nickname for a traffic warden that he'd made up himself. I think the
> Beatles at this stage liked to show off the fact that they'd been to the US
> (unlike most British people) by dropping the odd USA-ism. It was just a
> continuation of their earlier infatuation with American culture via obscure
> (to us) R&B records.
So why can't we similarly view the "Blackburn, Lancashire" bit in "A Day
In The Life" as an example of America-infatuationism and showing off
knowledge of American customs? Not that I want to bring that subject up
again.
BTW, in "Lovely Rita Meter Maid" Macca pronounces "book" with [u], does he
not?
--
Christopher Green
> Expensive finger
> ================
> In Germany, drivers who give a policeman or meter maid (= BrE 'traffic
> warden'; German "die Politesse") the finger are fined 4,000 Euro
> (US=$4,900; UK=£2,715).
>
> This gesture imported from the USA is called "der Stinkefinger."
Germans take public shows of disrespect very seriously. They also use
a sliding scale of fines based on ability to pay: fines can run ten to
thirty days' disposable income. Some reports
(http://www2.e110.de/artikel/detail.cfm?pageid=264&id=3412&subid=3413):
Annette H. was fined 4,294 Euro, 4 points, and a month suspension for
giving the finger to a slowpoke who irritated her by driving 50 km/h
in a 50 zone. This may be the case you're referring to.
Ralf H. was fined 572 Euro for calling a meter maid "bloedes Weib" and
"dumme Kuh" ("stupid woman" and "silly cow") while (unsuccessfully)
trying to charm his way out of a parking ticket.
Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
There's a table of typical fines at
http://www2.e110.de/artikel/detail.cfm?pageid=264&id=3412&subid=3414;
The German traditional gesture of disrespect, "Vogel zeigen", has been
good for fines of 383 Euro or so. "Stinkfinger" is about as serious as
it gets, short of actually assaulting somebody.
--
Chris Green
Jess Askin
Hmm, if it's been brought up before maybe I shouldn't ask this, but is it
ever correct to add the county name after an English town? I seem to recall
having seen that from time to time.
Matti Lamprhey
> "Areff" <m...@privacy.net> wrote...
> >
> > So why can't we similarly view the "Blackburn, Lancashire" bit in "A
> > Day In The Life" as an example of America-infatuationism and showing
> > off knowledge of American customs? Not that I want to bring that
> > subject up again.
I posted on 15th August in response to a similar question of Areff's an
item from the Guardian's _Notes & Queries_: this quoted an article in
the Daily Mail of 17th January 1967 which inspired those lyrics and
included "Blackburn Lancashire".
>
> Hmm, if it's been brought up before maybe I shouldn't ask this, but is
> it ever correct to add the county name after an English town? I seem
> to recall having seen that from time to time.
Taking Blackburn as an example, there is a pair of them in Scotland.
It's quite common to see the county name when it's required to
disambiguate, or to locate a little-known town.
Matti
Mike Lyle
[...]
> Hmm, if it's been brought up before maybe I shouldn't ask this, but
> is it ever correct to add the county name after an English town? I
> seem to recall having seen that from time to time.
It's often absolutely necessary. For example: Bampton, Devon;
Bampton, Oxon; Bampton, Cumbria. These come immediately to mind as I
used to live in the Devonshire one.
Mike.
Jess Askin
"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2rr9egF...@uni-berlin.de...
I suppose you can't always say "upon Tyne" or whatever.
Nell
Green) wrote:
>"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<4157CA35...@sonic.net>...
>> Expensive finger
>> ================
>> In Germany, drivers who give a policeman or meter maid (= BrE 'traffic
>> warden'; German "die Politesse") the finger are fined 4,000 Euro
>> (US=$4,900; UK=£2,715).
>>
>> This gesture imported from the USA is called "der Stinkefinger."
>
>Germans take public shows of disrespect very seriously. They also use
>a sliding scale of fines based on ability to pay: fines can run ten to
>thirty days' disposable income. Some reports
>(http://www2.e110.de/artikel/detail.cfm?pageid=264&id=3412&subid=3413):
>
>Annette H. was fined 4,294 Euro, 4 points, and a month suspension for
>giving the finger to a slowpoke who irritated her by driving 50 km/h
>in a 50 zone. This may be the case you're referring to.
>
Imagine! Driving the speed limit. How dare they!
Thought road rage was a male thing.
>Ralf H. was fined 572 Euro for calling a meter maid "bloedes Weib" and
>"dumme Kuh" ("stupid woman" and "silly cow") while (unsuccessfully)
>trying to charm his way out of a parking ticket.
>
Gee whiz, I wonder why he was unsuccessful?
>Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
>Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
>formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
>he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
>
Yes, when insulting uniformed authorities, do remember to use the
formal.
>There's a table of typical fines at
>http://www2.e110.de/artikel/detail.cfm?pageid=264&id=3412&subid=3414;
>The German traditional gesture of disrespect, "Vogel zeigen", has been
>good for fines of 383 Euro or so. "Stinkfinger" is about as serious as
>it gets, short of actually assaulting somebody.
Maybe because it can instigate assault????
Nell
Anyone who says "Easy as taking candy from a baby"
has never tried it.
Christopher Green
Any gesture of disrespect has the potential to disturb the peace in
Germany. Maybe because "the finger" is new and American and therefore
especially shocking, it is considered especially reprehensible.
For those who aren't familiar with the gesture, "Vogel zeigen" is
pictured at http://www2.e110.de/artikel/detail.cfm?pageid=264&id=3412&subid=3412
Zipping into the last parking space can get you assaulted: Hubert F.
boxed the ears of a Porsche driver who passed him and took the last
space in the parking garage. H.F. got a 6,135.50 Euro fine.
Recklessly running a red light is a less serious offense than yelling
at a meter maid, the way German traffic authorities look at it.
--
Chris Green
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Expensive finger
>================
>In Germany, drivers who give a policeman or meter maid (= BrE 'traffic
>warden'; German "die Politesse") the finger are fined 4,000 Euro
>(US=$4,900; UK=£2,715).
>
>This gesture imported from the USA is called "der Stinkefinger."
SAfE = "twos-up".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Christopher Green wrote:
[...]
> >Ralf H. was fined 572 Euro for calling a meter maid "bloedes Weib" and
> >"dumme Kuh" ("stupid woman" and "silly cow") while (unsuccessfully)
> >trying to charm his way out of a parking ticket.
"Du Schlampe" (you slut/slattern) said to a meter maid:
1,900 Euro = US$2,328 fine.
"Alte Sau" (old pig): 2,500 Euro = US$3,063 fine.
[...]
> >Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
> >Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
> >formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
> >he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
> Yes, when insulting uniformed authorities, do remember
> to use the formal.
Using the familiar "du" (thou) costs an additional 600 Euro = US$735.
R J Valentine
Someone ought to publish a Schimpfwoerterregelwidrigkeitgeldlist. Those
Germans make a Louisiana radar trap look like a vacation highlight.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>"Areff" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> So why can't we similarly view the "Blackburn, Lancashire" bit in "A Day
>> In The Life" as an example of America-infatuationism and showing off
>> knowledge of American customs? Not that I want to bring that subject up
>> again.
>
>Hmm, if it's been brought up before maybe I shouldn't ask this, but is it
>ever correct to add the county name after an English town? I seem to recall
>having seen that from time to time.
In the case of places like Richmond it might be advisable.
Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
Likewise Newport.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>
>"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> It's often absolutely necessary. For example: Bampton, Devon;
>> Bampton, Oxon; Bampton, Cumbria. These come immediately to mind as I
>> used to live in the Devonshire one.
>
>I suppose you can't always say "upon Tyne" or whatever.
I once lived quite near Newcastle upon Buffalo.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On 27 Sep 2004 10:49:37 -0700, cj.g...@worldnet.att.net (Christopher
>Green) wrote:
>>Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
>>Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
>>formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
>>he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
>>
>
>Yes, when insulting uniformed authorities, do remember to use the
>formal.
As the little old Quaker lady said to the traffic cop who has just given her a
ticket, "I hope that when thee gets back to thy kennel thy mother bites thee."
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
[...]
> } Using the familiar "du" (thou) costs an additional 600 Euro = US$735.
> Someone ought to publish a Schimpfwoerterregelwidrigkeitgeldlist.
Oy, Oy, Oy!
> Those Germans make a Louisiana radar trap
> look like a vacation highlight.
Such a nice and carefully crafted simile.
Apropos radar trap, did you ever get a speeding ticket in LA?
Gary G. Taylor
> Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
Not to mention Richmond, California.
--
Gary G. Taylor * Rialto, CA
gary at donavan dot org / http:// geetee dot donavan dot org
www.howtofixcomputers.com.is.bogus.horseshit
"The two most abundant things in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." --Harlan Ellison
Gary G. Taylor
> R J Valentine wrote:
>
>> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> } Using the familiar "du" (thou) costs an additional 600 Euro = US$735.
>
>> Someone ought to publish a Schimpfwoerterregelwidrigkeitgeldlist.
>
> Oy, Oy, Oy!
>
>> Those Germans make a Louisiana radar trap
>> look like a vacation highlight.
>
> Such a nice and carefully crafted simile.
> Apropos radar trap, did you ever get a speeding ticket in LA?
I have. 65 in a 35 zone (and going around traffic in the curb lane when same
was not marked) at Sherman Way and Laurel Canyon Blvd., when I'd first (and
finally!) gotten my '64 Harley-Davidson Sportster running. It was worth
every cent. AFAICR it was not a radar ticket, though; the cop was right
behind me and clocked me.
Jordan Abel
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:26:52 -0400, Nell <mildredskid...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On 27 Sep 2004 10:49:37 -0700, cj.g...@worldnet.att.net (Christopher
>>Green) wrote:
>>
>>>Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
>>>Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
>>>formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
>>>he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, when insulting uniformed authorities, do remember to use the
>>formal.
>
>
> As the little old Quaker lady said to the traffic cop who has just given her a
> ticket, "I hope that when thee gets back to thy kennel thy mother bites thee."
Isn't "thee" historically the familiar, with "you" as the formal?
[and what's with all these weird numbers? 4294, 1533, 6135]
Donna Richoux
> Steve Hayes wrote:
> > Nell <mildredskid...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On 27 Sep 2004 10:49:37 -0700, cj.g...@worldnet.att.net (Christopher
> >>Green) wrote:
> >>
> >>>Carlo was fined 1533 Euro for calling an officer "Sie Trottel in
> >>>Uniform" ("you ninny in uniform", at least he remembered to use the
> >>>formal!) at an alcohol checkpoint. Carlo may have been upset because
> >>>he and his girlfriend were stopped while riding bicycles.
> >>>
> >>Yes, when insulting uniformed authorities, do remember to use the
> >>formal.
> >
> > As the little old Quaker lady said to the traffic cop who has just given
> > her a ticket, "I hope that when thee gets back to thy kennel thy mother
> > bites thee."
>
> Isn't "thee" historically the familiar, with "you" as the formal?
Sort of, so I guess the joke is a counterexample of what Nell said. But
still, "thee" and "thou" have been used in more ways than the familiar;
please see a.u.e's article:
Thou, thee & archaic grammar
http://alt-usage-english.org/pronoun_paradigms.html
Long ago, they were merely *singular*; the informal connotation came
later. And that doesn't even count the Quaker use and the relatively
recent religious, reverent use.
>
> [and what's with all these weird numbers? 4294, 1533, 6135]
I don't see them. Secret codes from outer space?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Areff
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
>
> Not to mention Richmond, California.
Or Richmond, Virginia. Or the Richmond that is conterminous with Staten
Island.
--
Mike Lyle
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:03:22 -0500, "Jess Askin"
> <spam...@dontbother.net> wrote:
>> I suppose you can't always say "upon Tyne" or whatever.
>
> I once lived quite near Newcastle upon Buffalo.
A sort of New-World Infanta de Castile, was it?
Mike.
Jess Askin
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4159093A...@sonic.net...
> R J Valentine wrote:
>
> > Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > } Using the familiar "du" (thou) costs an additional 600 Euro = US$735.
>
> > Someone ought to publish a Schimpfwoerterregelwidrigkeitgeldlist.
>
> Oy, Oy, Oy!
>
> > Those Germans make a Louisiana radar trap
> > look like a vacation highlight.
>
> Such a nice and carefully crafted simile.
> Apropos radar trap, did you ever get a speeding ticket in LA?
Giving another driver the finger in LA can get you shot.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
>
>Not to mention Richmond, California.
California must be a very obscure place - is it a new county in the UK?
Steve Hayes
I think that for Quakers, that was the point. I'm not sure why they always
used the accusative, though.
>[and what's with all these weird numbers? 4294, 1533, 6135]
They're probably still translating from marks. For a long time we had 454g
tins of jam here.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> > R J Valentine wrote:
> >> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> } Using the familiar "du" (thou) costs
> >> } an additional 600 Euro = US$735.
> >> Someone ought to publish a Schimpfwoerterregelwidrigkeitgeldlist.
> > Oy, Oy, Oy!
> >> Those Germans make a Louisiana radar trap
> >> look like a vacation highlight.
> > Such a nice and carefully crafted simile.
> > Apropos radar trap, did you ever get a speeding ticket in LA?
> I have. 65 in a 35 zone (and going around traffic in the curb lane when same
> was not marked) at Sherman Way and Laurel Canyon Blvd., when I'd first (and
> finally!) gotten my '64 Harley-Davidson Sportster running. It was worth
> every cent. AFAICR it was not a radar ticket, though; the cop was right
> behind me and clocked me.
Ahem. LA = Louisiana, L.A. = Los Angeles.
Paul Wolff
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> writes
>In message <415a22a2....@news.saix.net>, Steve Hayes
><haye...@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>>California must be a very obscure place - is it a new county in the UK?
>>
>straight road in the county, maybe a Roman road as it's quite near
>Silchester, aka Calleva Atrebatum.
>
>See: <http://www.berkshirebedlam.org/>
>
>for the local culture:
>
> DONT FORGET THE 2004 BUNFIGHT - Berkshire Bedlam's annual
> ceilidh extravaganza ("It'll be a fun night at the BB Bunfight"
> as they say....)
>
> SAT NOV 27 2004 - CALIFORNIA RATEPAYERS HALL, FINCHAMPSTEAD,
> BERKSHIRE (click here for map)
Berkshire Bedlam is a Morris side.
Looking through the pages at that site, I noticed, in the Repertoire
section, the following:
Sucking the Monkey
A good column hanky dance, one of our showiest non-show dances. It is
named after a genuine old (Wokingham) custom - in sailor's slang 'to
suck the monkey' is to surreptitiously suck liquor from a cask through a
straw, and when milk has been taken from a coconut, and rum has been
substituted, 'sucking the monkey' is drinking this rum. There is an old
time rhyme about it, which sounds bad enough to have been written by one
of the current side, which goes :
"Besides, what the vulgar call 'sucking the monkey'
Has much less effect on a man when he's funky."
If you think you understand this please let us know. Also, apparently
among some Dutch people, one form of drinking is known as 'sucking the
monkey', because the early morning appetizer of rum and salt was taken
in a Monkey Spoon, a spoon having on the handle a heart surmounted by a
monkey, at one time given in the Netherlands at marriages to some
immediate relative of the bride, and at christenings and funerals to the
officiating clergyman.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>In message <415a22a2....@news.saix.net>, Steve Hayes
><haye...@hotmail.com> writes
>>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:44:32 GMT, "Gary G. Taylor" <knot...@knotdonavan.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
>>>
>>>Not to mention Richmond, California.
>>
>>California must be a very obscure place - is it a new county in the UK?
>>
>It's a locality in Berkshire. On the Nine Mile Ride, the longest
>straight road in the county, maybe a Roman road as it's quite near
>Silchester, aka Calleva Atrebatum.
>
>See: <http://www.berkshirebedlam.org/>
And is there a Richmond there?
Donna Richoux
> >See: <http://www.berkshirebedlam.org/>
>
> Looking through the pages at that site, I noticed, in the Repertoire
> section, the following:
>
> Sucking the Monkey
> A good column hanky dance, one of our showiest non-show dances. It is
> named after a genuine old (Wokingham) custom - in sailor's slang 'to
> suck the monkey' is to surreptitiously suck liquor from a cask through a
> straw, and when milk has been taken from a coconut, and rum has been
> substituted, 'sucking the monkey' is drinking this rum. There is an old
> time rhyme about it, which sounds bad enough to have been written by one
> of the current side, which goes :
> "Besides, what the vulgar call 'sucking the monkey'
> Has much less effect on a man when he's funky."
> If you think you understand this please let us know. Also, apparently
> among some Dutch people, one form of drinking is known as 'sucking the
> monkey', because the early morning appetizer of rum and salt was taken
> in a Monkey Spoon, a spoon having on the handle a heart surmounted by a
> monkey, at one time given in the Netherlands at marriages to some
> immediate relative of the bride, and at christenings and funerals to the
> officiating clergyman.
The Dutch are generally fond of little spoons with fancy handles to
commemorate events, and to collect as souvenirs, that sort of thing. I
was able to establish that the custom of "geboortelepels," Birth-spoons,
is fairly widely known, though I don't know how old. The spoon is given
to a newborn child as a wish for luck. I found one mention that
associates the monkey (aap) with these spoons, but only one. Pictures at
Google images of <geboortelepels> show other images on the handles.
Anyway, it doesn't add up. Even if someone remembered somebody
administering rum with a spoon with a monkey on it, the spoon having
been received for some special occasion, that certainly couldn't predate
Chaucer. I mean, Chaucer didn't even have rum, let alone little fancy
silver spoons. More likely, the aforementioned somebody heard a phrase
about "sucking the monkey" being *used* on such an occasion, and thought
that's where it came from.
So far I don't find any dictionary connection between "aap" and "zuigen"
(suck). That could mean it's archaic or obscure Dutch. Perhaps some of
our Dutch participants will know.
Paul Wolff
>On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:37:41 +0100, Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <415a22a2....@news.saix.net>, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@hotmail.com> writes
>>>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:44:32 GMT, "Gary G. Taylor" <knot...@knotdonavan.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Richmond, Surrey is quite a long way from Richmond, Yorks.
>>>>
>>>>Not to mention Richmond, California.
>>>
>>>California must be a very obscure place - is it a new county in the UK?
>>>
>>It's a locality in Berkshire. On the Nine Mile Ride, the longest
>>straight road in the county, maybe a Roman road as it's quite near
>>Silchester, aka Calleva Atrebatum.
>>
>>See: <http://www.berkshirebedlam.org/>
>
>And is there a Richmond there?
>
spelling.)
don groves
boun...@two.wolff.co.uk wrote...
There are many who shouldn't risk the full pronunciation either.
"Massatwochits" seems to come out regularly.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)