AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?

[Paul Carmichael]

AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?

Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[occam]

On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>
> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>

Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
hauler trucks.

Having said that, this quote from somewhere:

"Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."

https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/

[Paul Carmichael]

El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:

> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>
>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>
>
> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> hauler trucks.

The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.

What triggered my question was a Spanish TV report yesterday about "an 18 wheel lorry that
collided with a train" or somesuch. I was just wondering if they had reported something
literally that had maybe been a generic term.

Praps not.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> > AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >
> > Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >
> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> hauler trucks.

I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".

> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>
> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>
> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/

Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
details at

https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels

--
Jerry Friedman

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-02-24 14:38:16 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>
>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>
>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>> hauler trucks.
>
> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".

Would a "full" have 32 wheels?

>
>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>>
>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>>
>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>
> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
> details at
>
> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels


--

Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
<wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

>El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:
>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>
>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>
>>
>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>> hauler trucks.
>
>The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
>actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.

Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
of counting up to 18 visible items.

18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.

>
>What triggered my question was a Spanish TV report yesterday about "an 18 wheel lorry that
>collided with a train" or somesuch. I was just wondering if they had reported something
>literally that had maybe been a generic term.
>
>Praps not.

We are not responsible if Spanish road accident viewers can't tell a
semi-truck from a dump truck.
--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:27:28 +0100, Paul Carmichael
<wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

>AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>
>Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?

An 18-wheeler always has 18 wheels. If a truck is identified as an
18-wheeler, but does not have a total of 18 wheels, it's a mistake in
identification.

[Paul Carmichael]

El 24/2/21 a las 16:01, Tony Cooper escribió:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:
>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>
>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>> hauler trucks.
>>
>> The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
>> actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
>
> Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
> of counting up to 18 visible items.

Stupid answer. Do they really count the wheels before being able to name what they've
seen? Something like "a big rig" might be a better idea.

> 18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
> articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.

An articulated lorry then. In other countries they have varying numbers of wheels.

OK. So in the USA a lorry with 18 wheels has other characteristics that identify it
without the need for counting wheels. And this type of articulated unit always has 18 wheels.

Thank you. You have answered my question. There was no need to go all PTD on me.

>>
>> What triggered my question was a Spanish TV report yesterday about "an 18 wheel lorry that
>> collided with a train" or somesuch. I was just wondering if they had reported something
>> literally that had maybe been a generic term.
>>
>> Praps not.
>
> We are not responsible if Spanish road accident viewers can't tell a
> semi-truck from a dump truck.
>

<my knee-jerk reaction removed to avoid inevitable anti-anything-non-American nonsense>

It was originally reported by American reporters and quoted by the Spanish TV.

BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Paul Carmichael]

El 24/2/21 a las 15:38, Jerry Friedman escribió:

Thanks. Those articles suggest that my question wasn't entirely stupid and I'm obviously
not the first to ask it.

So I would guess that at least some people may use the term without said vehicle actually
having 18 wheels. Journalists certainly aren't known for checking their facts.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:42:07 +0100, Paul Carmichael

<wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

>El 24/2/21 a las 16:01, Tony Cooper escribió:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:
>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>>> hauler trucks.
>>>
>>> The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
>>> actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
>>
>> Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
>> of counting up to 18 visible items.
>
>Stupid answer. Do they really count the wheels before being able to name what they've
>seen? Something like "a big rig" might be a better idea.

No, it's not stupid at all. The shape/appearance of a semi-truck is
very familar to all Americans. Seen one time and the wheels counted,
we know an 18-wheeler from a pickup truck or a dump truck after that.
We don't need a better term.

>> 18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
>> articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.
>
>An articulated lorry then. In other countries they have varying numbers of wheels.

Not all articulated trucks in the US have 18-wheels when the wheels of
the cab/tractor are added up. However, the standard configuration is
10 wheels on the cab/tractor and 18 wheels on the trailer. There are
other configurations built for transporting specific things, but they
would be visibly different from the standard configuration.

>
>OK. So in the USA a lorry with 18 wheels has other characteristics that identify it
>without the need for counting wheels. And this type of articulated unit always has 18 wheels.
>
>Thank you. You have answered my question. There was no need to go all PTD on me.

That doesn't sit very well from someone who calls an answer "stupid".
Terms like that are associated with PTD posts. You invite a flippant
answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.

I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.

>>>
>>> What triggered my question was a Spanish TV report yesterday about "an 18 wheel lorry that
>>> collided with a train" or somesuch. I was just wondering if they had reported something
>>> literally that had maybe been a generic term.
>>>
>>> Praps not.
>>
>> We are not responsible if Spanish road accident viewers can't tell a
>> semi-truck from a dump truck.
>>
>
><my knee-jerk reaction removed to avoid inevitable anti-anything-non-American nonsense>
>
>It was originally reported by American reporters and quoted by the Spanish TV.
>

I was not reported that way by an American reporter. Not with
"lorry" in the report. The report may have been translated from an
American's report.

>BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

When the cab, or tractor, is seen on the road without the trailer
attached, it's referred to as a "bob-tail" by those who know the term.

[Tony Cooper]

Damn it. 8 wheels on the trailer, of course. Typo.

[Paul Carmichael]

El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:

> You invite a flippant
> answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
> 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
>
> I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.

MW:

18-wheeler noun

Definition of 18-wheeler
: a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having eighteen wheels

See that word? TYPICALLY.

My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.

> When the cab, or tractor, is seen on the road without the trailer
> attached, it's referred to as a "bob-tail" by those who know the term.
>

Well obviously.

Just for the record, the original post was inspired by genuine interest and was in no way
anti-anything.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[J. J. Lodder]

Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
It makes little sense anyway:
the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
So there are three axles,
but it is normally running on only two.

Saves on wear, and they don't need to stop
when they have a blown tyre,

Jan

[Quinn C]

* J. J. Lodder:

> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> > AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>> >
>>> > Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>> >
>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>> hauler trucks.
>>
>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>
>>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>>>
>>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>>>
>>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>>
>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
>> details at
>>
>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
>
> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

Except for three-wheelers.

--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson

[Ken Blake]

There may be some exceptions, but they are rare. They almost all have 18
wheels and they are frequently called "18 wheelers," but they are
probably most commonly called "semis." I'd understand "big rig," but I
don't remember ever hearing it.


--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

On 2/24/2021 10:32 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:
>
>> You invite a flippant
>> answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
>> 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
>>
>> I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.
>
> MW:
>
> 18-wheeler noun
>
> Definition of 18-wheeler
> : a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having eighteen wheels
>
> See that word? TYPICALLY.
>
> My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.

Perhaps it's used as a generic term by a few people, but I would not
say "often. It's not used that way by me. If a truck obviously didn't
have 18 wheels, I would never call it an 18-wheeler.


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:44:47 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2021-02-24 14:38:16 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
> > On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> >> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:

> >>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> >> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> >> hauler trucks.
> > I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>
> Would a "full" have 32 wheels?

Twice 18? Seems a bit unlikely, no?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 10:01:14 AM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:
> >> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:

> >>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> >> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> >> hauler trucks.
> >The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
> >actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
>
> Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
> of counting up to 18 visible items.

Getting them all visible at once would be quite a trick.

[J. J. Lodder]

You have experience with being a third wheel?

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 11:42:12 AM UTC-5, Paul Carmichael wrote:

> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

It isn't, however, a semi-truck.

The word for the type of truck isn't pronounced like the prefix.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 12:55:39 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> It makes little sense anyway:
> the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
> So there are three axles,
> but it is normally running on only two.

Small countries, small trucks?

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:55:34 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>> > On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> > > AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>> > >
>> > > Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>> > >
>> > Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>> > long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>> > hauler trucks.
>>
>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>
>> > Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>> >
>> > "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>> > dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>> >
>> > https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>>
>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
>> details at
>>
>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
>
>Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

>It makes little sense anyway:
>the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.

Since when is "sense" involved in slang terms? The term has been in
use for decades, and any improvements in design are not going affect
the use of the slang term.

Look no further than the vocabulary associated with telephones for
terms that don't make sense today.

[Ken Blake]

...or a fifth wheel?


--
Ken

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:55:34 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:

> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>
> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

ITYM "informal."

> >It makes little sense anyway:
> >the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
>
> Since when is "sense" involved in slang terms?

?? If informal language didn't "make sense," it wouldn't have
caught on in the first place.

> The term has been in
> use for decades, and any improvements in design are not going affect
> the use of the slang term.

"In use for decades" is on the whole incompatible with "slang."

> Look no further than the vocabulary associated with telephones for
> terms that don't make sense today.

When you say you are dialing a number, are you using slang?

[Jonathan Harston]

On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 18:30:58 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

Well, of course, Mallard is a 4-6-2, but we tend to base our slang on
functional facts, not side effects. "Power saw" - a saw that is powered,
not "buzz saw" - a saw that buzzes. What's the relevance that it buzzes?

jgh

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 10:32:07 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:
> > You invite a flippant
> > answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
> > 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
> >
> > I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.
> MW:
>
> 18-wheeler noun
>
> Definition of 18-wheeler
> : a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having eighteen wheels
>
> See that word? TYPICALLY.
>
> My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.

...

Seldom, as others have said.

Incidentally, I believe "18-wheeler" was originally truckers' lingo, contrasted with
"4-wheeler", a car, van, ordinary pickup truck, etc. It was popularized by the CB
craze in the mid '70s.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=18+wheeler%2C18-wheeler%2Ceighteen+wheeler%2Ceighteen-wheeler&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2C18%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C18%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2C18%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C18%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0

shorturl.at/lCIQ3

I don't consider it appropriate for journalism, but many journalists seem to like
informal expressions.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:35:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:55:34 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> Lodder) wrote:
>
>> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>
>> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
>> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?
>
>ITYM "informal."

Slang, by definition, is informal usage but not all informal usage is
slang, so I do mean slang/

>
>> >It makes little sense anyway:
>> >the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
>>
>> Since when is "sense" involved in slang terms?
>
>?? If informal language didn't "make sense," it wouldn't have
>caught on in the first place.

You are greatly out-of-touch. Some slang terms make sense because
they are easily associated with the meaning, but what makes sense
about "snatched", "finsta", "no cap", "straight fire", "spill the
tea", "CD9", "bae", or "fleek" to name a few current slang terms in
use by the younger generation.

>
>> The term has been in
>> use for decades, and any improvements in design are not going affect
>> the use of the slang term.
>
>"In use for decades" is on the whole incompatible with "slang."

In some, but far from all cases. Some, like "grass" and "weed", stick
around for decades.

>
>> Look no further than the vocabulary associated with telephones for
>> terms that don't make sense today.
>

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:42:12 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El 24/2/21 a las 16:01, Tony Cooper escribió:

...

> > We are not responsible if Spanish road accident viewers can't tell a
> > semi-truck from a dump truck.
> >
> <my knee-jerk reaction removed to avoid inevitable anti-anything-non-American nonsense>
>
> It was originally reported by American reporters and quoted by the Spanish TV.
>
> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

I keep forgetting what's so semi about it. Apparently the original word was
"semi-trailer", meaning a trailer with wheels only at the back. It spread from
there to the whole truck.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

AmE "lift axle" or "drop axle", apparently. It might depend on whether you're an
optimist or a pessimist. The third axle is also used to carry heavy loads.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

I'm a little confused by the above. Is "18-wheeler" not based on a
factual apect: the actual number of wheels? It's not based on a side
effect.

We do not call a powered saw a "buzz saw". At least I've never heard
of one being so described.

The term is usually used to describe some sort of rapid activity. "He
met a buzz saw of questioning at the press conference.".

It is used metaphorically as in "He went through the opposition like a
buzz saw", but that refers to the action rather than the object.

[Sam Plusnet]

A Fair Witness, as in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land"

"There are nine on this side."

--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK

[Sam Plusnet]

And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

[Sam Plusnet]

A variety of differently sized lorries, each configured to suit their
purpose.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 24-Feb-21 18:30, Tony Cooper wrote:

> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

Hence the original question asking if "18 wheelers" _must_ have exactly
18 wheels.

"Yes" or "No" or "Almost always" would have done the job nicely.

[phil]

In the context of this discussion, surely the Scammell Scarab is crying
out for a mention:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Scarab

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

A strange waggon.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Hilarious seen driving in a foot (1971) of snow.



1971 - back when we used feet.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

That could have shortened everybody's day.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

At least it's not a sheep in a field in Scotland.
</Biologist/Physicist/Mathematician "joke">

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

??? Euroland is completely unknown to you?

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 2:47:15 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:35:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:55:34 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >
> >> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> >>
> >> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
> >> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?
> >
> >ITYM "informal."
> Slang, by definition, is informal usage but not all informal usage is
> slang, so I do mean slang/

No, that is not the definition of "slang."

Slang is one subset of informal language, and "18-wheeler" doesn't
belong in that subset.

> >> >It makes little sense anyway:
> >> >the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
> >> Since when is "sense" involved in slang terms?
> >?? If informal language didn't "make sense," it wouldn't have
> >caught on in the first place.
>
> You are greatly out-of-touch. Some slang terms make sense because
> they are easily associated with the meaning, but what makes sense
> about "snatched", "finsta", "no cap", "straight fire", "spill the
> tea", "CD9", "bae", or "fleek" to name a few current slang terms in
> use by the younger generation.

No idea. I've never heard any of them. Those are current slang terms
(presumably).

I did not even remotely question whether slang needs to make sense.
I said, as if I need to quote something a few lines above, "?? If informal

language didn't "make sense," it wouldn't have caught on in the first place."

Not slang. Informal language. As in "18-wheeler." If. as Jerry attests,
it began in CBer lingo, it still didn't originate as "slang," but as jargon
or argot. When it entered general usage, it lost that arcane status.

> >> The term has been in
> >> use for decades, and any improvements in design are not going affect
> >> the use of the slang term.
> >"In use for decades" is on the whole incompatible with "slang."
>
> In some, but far from all cases. Some, like "grass" and "weed", stick
> around for decades.

Yet another expression you're unfamiliar with -- someone should be
keeping track -- "on the whole"?

> >> Look no further than the vocabulary associated with telephones for
> >> terms that don't make sense today.

And, of course, you deleted, rather than addressing, the question that
shows how wrong your definition of "slang" is.

[Peter T. Daniels]

And in at least some cases, they come in pairs on each side
(i.e. 4 per axle).

[Peter T. Daniels]

Yes. Is that a theme park trying to compete with EuroDisney?

You _just_ said that "European" trailers have normally
(only) two axles, sometimes three. That's pretty small.
And covers an entire continent.

[Snidely]

Tony Cooper speculated:
> At precisely Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:21:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:42:07 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tony, you broke guzintas with your correction]

>>> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

Half a phrase. "Semi-articulated tractor-trailer"

Youse guys discard one half, we the other.

>> When the cab, or tractor, is seen on the road without the trailer
>> attached, it's referred to as a "bob-tail" by those who know the term.

I also know bob-tail as a term for a short box truck.

/dps "or at least I think I do"

--
"First thing in the morning, before I have coffee, I read the obits, If
I'm not in it, I'll have breakfast." -- Carl Reiner, to CBS News in
2015.

[Snidely]

Ken Blake explained :

> On 2/24/2021 10:32 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:
>>
>>> You invite a flippant
>>> answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
>>> 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
>>>
>>> I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.
>>
>> MW:
>>
>> 18-wheeler noun
>>
>> Definition of 18-wheeler
>> : a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having
>> eighteen wheels
>>
>> See that word? TYPICALLY.
>>
>> My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.
>
>

> Perhaps it's used as a generic term by a few people, but I would not say
> "often. It's not used that way by me. If a truck obviously didn't have 18
> wheels, I would never call it an 18-wheeler.

ISTR that the term came from long-haul truckers, most of whom drive
18-wheelers by wheel count, although back a handful of decades, before
40 ft trailers [and longer, now] a common configuration was "a pair of
doubles" and even sometimes "triples". In a pair of doubles, two
trailers are towed, one hitched to the tractor, and the other hitched
to the first trailer. No points for guessing "triple".

/dps "elephant fashion, if the front elephant supplies all the effort"

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Snidely]

Paul Carmichael is guilty of <i9nefc...@mid.individual.net> as of
2/24/2021 8:50:51 AM
> El 24/2/21 a las 15:38, Jerry Friedman escribió:

>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:

>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>
>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>
>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>> hauler trucks.
>>

>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>
>>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>>>
>>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>>>
>>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>>
>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
>> details at
>>
>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
>>
>

> Thanks. Those articles suggest that my question wasn't entirely stupid and
> I'm obviously not the first to ask it.
>
> So I would guess that at least some people may use the term without said
> vehicle actually having 18 wheels. Journalists certainly aren't known for
> checking their facts.

Pending review of the article, I'll just note that some dumptrucks are
indeed semi's, and some single-frame dumptrucks have a lot of wheels,
some of which may not be on the road unless there is a heavy load.

When I was a kid, 3 rear axles was not common in the US, but Matchbox
attested to that configuration in Europe. Trucks have gotten larger,
but axle loading may still be limited, so axles have been grown in new
spots.

Cranes, house moving trailers, and flatbeds used to move locomotives
have a few wheels. They don't look like an 18-wheeler.

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Quinn C]

* Ken Blake:

> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>

>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>
>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>
>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
>
> ...or a fifth wheel?

In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
cyclists.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Quinn C]

* Sam Plusnet:

> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>

>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>
>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>
> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

Interesting, Mr. Wayne.

I'm surprised how long they were around - I was never aware of the
Reliant brand in any form.

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/02/21 04:21, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:42:07 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.
>

> When the cab, or tractor, is seen on the road without the trailer
> attached, it's referred to as a "bob-tail" by those who know the
> term.

The Australian term for such a combination (cab + trailer) is
"semi-trailer", but it's not half a trailer. Frequently abbreviated to
"semi".

I'm surprised to learn that all semis have 18 wheels. Some are bigger
than others. I'll have to try counting the wheels on the next few I see.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/02/21 05:28, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:44:47 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>> On 2021-02-24 14:38:16 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>>> hauler trucks.
>>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>

>> Would a "full" have 32 wheels?
>
> Twice 18? Seems a bit unlikely, no?

No, it would have 42 = 9x6.

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/02/21 07:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>> * J. J. Lodder:

>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels, and naming by
>>> number of wheels is unusual.
>>
>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>
> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

There's an annual road race from Darwin to Adelaide (about 3000 km) for
solar-powered cars. It's noticeable that many of the contestants have
three wheels.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/02/21 07:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * J. J. Lodder:
> >>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels, and naming by
> >>> number of wheels is unusual.
> >>
> >> Except for three-wheelers.
> >>
> > And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
> There's an annual road race from Darwin to Adelaide (about 3000 km) for
> solar-powered cars. It's noticeable that many of the contestants have
> three wheels.

Two in front, one in back? Unlike the Robin.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

And the same as in North America. Maybe you don't know much about that
continent, either.

--
Trans people are scapegoated for the impossibilities of this two-box
system, but the system harms all of us. Most people have felt ashamed
of the ways we don't conform to whatever narrow idea of man or woman
has been prescribed onto our bodies -- H.P.Keenan in Slate

[Quinn C]

* J. J. Lodder:

Apparently, he hasn't seen any of the Brexit lineups.

<https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/12/18/11/37004432-9067309-image-a-91_1608291870206.jpg>

--
It was frequently the fastest way to find what he was looking
for, provided that he was looking for trouble.
-- L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 10:32:07 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:
>>> You invite a flippant
>>> answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
>>> 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
>>>
>>> I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.
>> MW:
>>
>> 18-wheeler noun
>>
>> Definition of 18-wheeler
>>: a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having eighteen wheels
>>
>> See that word? TYPICALLY.
>>
>> My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.

> ...
>
> Seldom, as others have said.

I had a boss before who liked to say "take an 18-wheeler to go shopping"
and similar things as metaphors. That's where I may have heard the
expression the most.

--
What Phrenzy in my Bosom rag'd,
And by what Care to be asswag'd?
-- Sappho, transl. Addison (1711)
What was it that my distracted heart most wanted?
-- transl. Barnard (1958)

[musika]

But like the Messerschmitt KR200.

--
Ray
UK

[Tony Cooper]

Traffic reporters observe the number of wheels and divide by 18 to
determine the number of semis on the road.


--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:53:53 +0000, phil <ph...@anonymous.invalid>
wrote:

HBO recently aired a documentary about the Dale:

https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dale-car-brochure.jpg?w=1501&resize=1501%2C1147

Although, the series was more about the person behind the Dale,
Elizabeth Carmichael who was born Jerry Charmichael.

[Tony Cooper]

I don't think anyone has said that all semis have 18 wheels. The term
18 wheeler refers to those that do. And, those that do are the ones
seen most frequently.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:45:46 -0500, Quinn C

<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Ken Blake:
>
>> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>>
>>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>>
>>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>
>>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
>>
>> ...or a fifth wheel?
>
>In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
>the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
>cyclists.

Which brings to mind that 18 wheelers actually have 19 wheels. The
mechanism that is the primary connection of the trailer to the tractor
is call a "fifth wheel".

Twenty if you count the steering wheel.

[Lewis]

In message <i9mue6...@mid.individual.net> occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>
>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>

> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> hauler trucks.

But they are called "18 wheelers" by many people, regardless of the
actual count of wheels, as long as there are "many".

--
If women wear a pair of pants, a pair of glasses, and a pair of
earrings, why don't they wear a pair of bras?

[Lewis]

In message <i9nduv...@mid.individual.net> Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> El 24/2/21 a las 16:01, Tony Cooper escribió:

>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:

>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>>> hauler trucks.
>>>

>>> The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
>>> actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
>>
>> Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
>> of counting up to 18 visible items.

> Stupid answer. Do they really count the wheels before being able to name what they've
> seen? Something like "a big rig" might be a better idea.

>> 18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
>> articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.

> An articulated lorry then. In other countries they have varying numbers of wheels.

> OK. So in the USA a lorry with 18 wheels has other characteristics that identify it
> without the need for counting wheels. And this type of articulated unit always has 18 wheels.

No, they sometimes have more wheels, but they are still called
18-wheelers by many people. OTOH, I have never heard "24 wheeler"

> It was originally reported by American reporters and quoted by the
> Spanish TV.

> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

The cab is, and the trailer is, as they are physically separate items.

--
Thanks to great leaders such as Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, and
Socratic Method, the world is full of history.

[Snidely]

Just this Wednesday, Tony Cooper puzzled about:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:44:38 -0800 (PST), Jonathan Harston
> <j...@mdfs.net> wrote:

>
>> On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 18:30:58 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

>>> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
>>> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?
>>

>> Well, of course, Mallard is a 4-6-2, but we tend to base our slang on
>> functional facts, not side effects. "Power saw" - a saw that is powered,
>> not "buzz saw" - a saw that buzzes. What's the relevance that it buzzes?
>>
>
> I'm a little confused by the above. Is "18-wheeler" not based on a
> factual apect: the actual number of wheels? It's not based on a side
> effect.
>
> We do not call a powered saw a "buzz saw". At least I've never heard
> of one being so described.
>
> The term is usually used to describe some sort of rapid activity. "He
> met a buzz saw of questioning at the press conference.".
>
> It is used metaphorically as in "He went through the opposition like a
> buzz saw", but that refers to the action rather than the object.

I believe buzz saws were early circular saws used in lumber mills, and
might involve blades with a diameter in the range of 4 to 8 feet
inclusive. Nowadays familiar from vintage cartoons, from before laser
cutting became a thing.

You didn't want to hear the buzzing too clearly, because it could be
the last thing you hear.

/dps

[Snidely]

Quinn C explained on 2/24/2021 :

> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>
>>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>
>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>
>> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
>
> Interesting, Mr. Wayne.
>
> I'm surprised how long they were around - I was never aware of the
> Reliant brand in any form.

I believe the Discord app has a source of GIFs that includes some
Reliants. And didn't someone post here the, uh, creative enactment of
a race run with them?

/dps

--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

[Tony Cooper]

Damn! It's really important to you to have every line you write
responded to, isn't it?

You asked: "When you say you are dialing a number, are you using
slang?"

No, "I dialed his number" is not a sentence that includes a slang
term. It's a sentence where the verb is descriptive of an action that
is no longer the action the verb describes.

Slang terms used as nouns for "telephone" would be "handy", "brick",
"burner", "horn", or "blower". Slang terms used to describe
telephone calls would include "tinkle", "bell", "21", and "buzz".

Sometimes your questions are so inappropriate to the subject matter,
or such clumsy attempts to find fault, that they are deservedly
ignored.

But, hey, if you don't mind being embarassed by having this one
answered, I'll oblige.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 6:45:50 PM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
> * Ken Blake:
> > On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>> * J. J. Lodder:

> >>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> >>> Except for three-wheelers.
> >> You have experience with being a third wheel?
> > ...or a fifth wheel?
>
> In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
> the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
> cyclists.

Or. dates in "fifth-wheel" countries typically involve four, not just
two, people?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 7:38:12 PM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 4:11:18 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 12:55:39 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> >>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> >>> > It makes little sense anyway:
> >>> > the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
> >>> > So there are three axles,
> >>> > but it is normally running on only two.
> >>> Small countries, small trucks?
> >> ??? Euroland is completely unknown to you?
> > Yes. Is that a theme park trying to compete with EuroDisney?
> > You _just_ said that "European" trailers have normally
> > (only) two axles, sometimes three. That's pretty small.
>
> And the same as in North America. Maybe you don't know much about that
> continent, either.

This thread is about 18-wheelers.

[Peter T. Daniels]

As I already said, this (somewhat truthful) response shows that
your first claim about the meaning of the word "slang" was, as
you Anglomaniacs would say, rubbish.

This time, of course, you failed to include your unfortunate
assertion that prompted the question, which would have
shown what rubbish your comment was.

[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 2:27:32 AM UTC-8, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>
> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>

> --
AFAIK, an 18 wheeler has 18 wheels - 10 on the cab and 8 on the trailer.

A second trailer would have 16 wheels and the whole thing (cab and 2 trailers) should be called a 34 wheeler, though I don't know whether they are called that. The NJ Turnpike is where I first saw a 34 wheeler.

[Dingbat]

India had a car like that but its tendency to overturn on curves killed the market for such a car. I haven't seen 3 wheeled HPVs & PVVs (or whatever photovoltaic vehicles are called) cited for a tendency to overturn, so I wonder what made that car so prone to it.

[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 8:42:12 AM UTC-8, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El 24/2/21 a las 16:01, Tony Cooper escribió:
> > On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> > <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:

> >>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>>>
> >>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >>>>
> >>>

> >>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> >>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> >>> hauler trucks.
> >>
> >> The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers" and I doubt they
> >> actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
> >
> > Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
> > of counting up to 18 visible items.
> Stupid answer. Do they really count the wheels before being able to name what they've
> seen? Something like "a big rig" might be a better idea.
> > 18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
> > articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.
> An articulated lorry then. In other countries they have varying numbers of wheels.
>
> OK. So in the USA a lorry with 18 wheels has other characteristics that identify it
> without the need for counting wheels. And this type of articulated unit always has 18 wheels.
>

> Thank you. You have answered my question. There was no need to go all PTD on me.
> >>
> >> What triggered my question was a Spanish TV report yesterday about "an 18 wheel lorry that
> >> collided with a train" or somesuch. I was just wondering if they had reported something
> >> literally that had maybe been a generic term.
> >>
> >> Praps not.
> >
> > We are not responsible if Spanish road accident viewers can't tell a
> > semi-truck from a dump truck.
> >
> <my knee-jerk reaction removed to avoid inevitable anti-anything-non-American nonsense>

>
> It was originally reported by American reporters and quoted by the Spanish TV.
>
> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.

It's a semi-trailer. And "truck", like "bogie", is also a name for an axle assembly. I don't know whether a semi-trailer's 8 wheel assembly is called a bogie, a truck or something else. I've seen a smaller rig with the same configuration as a big rig. The cab and semi-trailer together were about the length of a (40 ft) bus and the other dimensions (width, height and wheel diameter too were smaller than on a big rig).

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-02-24 21:07:19 +0000, Kerr-Mudd,John said:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:34:52 GMT, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>

>>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:

>>>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe
> generic
>>>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term
> for
>>>>>> hauler trucks.
>>>>>

>>>>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>>>>>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
>>>>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
>>>>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
>>>>> details at
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
>>>>

>>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>
>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>
>> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
>>

> Hilarious seen driving in a foot (1971) of snow.
>
>
>
> 1971 - back when we used feet.

Nowadays you use golf carts à la Trump?


--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-02-25 00:06:04 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 25/02/21 05:28, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 9:44:47 AM UTC-5, Athel
>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-24 14:38:16 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>
>>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>>>> hauler trucks.
>>>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>>
>>> Would a "full" have 32 wheels?
>>
>> Twice 18? Seems a bit unlikely, no?

I was wondering who would comment on that careless error (which I
noticed immediately after posting, but didn't bother to correct as it
seemed too obvious). I should have guessed.

>
> No, it would have 42 = 9x6.


--

[Paul Carmichael]

El 25/2/21 a las 2:36, Tony Cooper escribió:

> HBO recently aired a documentary about the Dale:
>
> https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dale-car-brochure.jpg?w=1501&resize=1501%2C1147
>
> Although, the series was more about the person behind the Dale,
> Elizabeth Carmichael who was born Jerry Charmichael.
>

My maternal grandmother was Elizabeth Carmichael. She was born without a name though.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Paul Carmichael]

El 25/2/21 a las 5:44, Tony Cooper escribió:

> Slang terms used as nouns for "telephone" would be "handy"

I did wonder where the Germn word for mobile phone came from. I have never heard that
usage (BrE).

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Paul Carmichael]

El 25/2/21 a las 9:30, Paul Carmichael escribió:

Sorry, paternal.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/02/21 19:35, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El 25/2/21 a las 5:44, Tony Cooper escribió:
>
>> Slang terms used as nouns for "telephone" would be "handy"
>
> I did wonder where the Germn word for mobile phone came from. I have
> never heard that usage (BrE).

Does the German word mean any telephone, or just one you can hold in
your hand?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Lewis]

In message <f1ecd052-e495-46d5...@googlegroups.com> Jonathan Harston <j...@mdfs.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 18:30:58 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

>> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
>> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

> Well, of course, Mallard is a 4-6-2, but we tend to base our slang on
> functional facts, not side effects. "Power saw" - a saw that is powered,
> not "buzz saw" - a saw that buzzes. What's the relevance that it buzzes?

You think buzz saws are called that because of the noise?

I don't think so.

Have you ever heard of a buzz cut?

--
It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

[Lewis]

In message <9vbd3gh82aaubjb2d...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:44:38 -0800 (PST), Jonathan Harston

> <j...@mdfs.net> wrote:

>>On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 18:30:58 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> >Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>> >and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
>>> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?
>>
>>Well, of course, Mallard is a 4-6-2, but we tend to base our slang on
>>functional facts, not side effects. "Power saw" - a saw that is powered,
>>not "buzz saw" - a saw that buzzes. What's the relevance that it buzzes?
>>

> I'm a little confused by the above. Is "18-wheeler" not based on a
> factual apect: the actual number of wheels? It's not based on a side
> effect.

> We do not call a powered saw a "buzz saw". At least I've never heard
> of one being so described.

A buzz saw would be found in a lumber mill, but my former business
partner called the table saw a buzz saw, not the hand-held one, but the
table saw.

> The term is usually used to describe some sort of rapid activity. "He
> met a buzz saw of questioning at the press conference.".

And buzz saws are very fast at turning logs into lumber, much like a buzz
cut is a fast (and short) hair cut.

> It is used metaphorically as in "He went through the opposition like a
> buzz saw", but that refers to the action rather than the object.

True, but it is referring to the object, which is not named after the
sound it makes.

This is a buzz saw, used for cutting small logs into wood suitable for a
fireplace, though at this size they are more likely to be called
"cordwood saws" since you use them to cut your cords of wood.

<http://www.newhavenpower.com/Woodsman_Crop.jpg>

There's little call for such a thing in Florida.

--
Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice
the usual number of suspects.

[Lewis]

In message <0PmdnXjVuIV3JKv9...@brightview.co.uk> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> On 24-Feb-21 18:30, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> You do understand that "18-wheeler" is a slang term? Are Europeans
>> not in the habit of using slang terms for common things?

> Hence the original question asking if "18 wheelers" _must_ have exactly
> 18 wheels.

> "Yes" or "No" or "Almost always" would have done the job nicely.

Tony said Yes quite a long time ago, while I said "almost always" or
words to that effect.


--
Join the Bastards of Castle Black today!

[Lewis]

In message <1dqhrl058k3p$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> * Ken Blake:

>> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

>>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>>

>>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>>

>>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>
>>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
>>
>> ...or a fifth wheel?

> In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
> the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
> cyclists.

"A Fifth Wheel" Is a mount in a heavy duty pickup truck that allows
hooking up a large trailer, much like a semi truck/big rig/18 wheeler.
It is a useful thing.

A "third wheel" is an extra person in a group when the other two people
in the group are a couple. It has nothing to do with cycles. It probably
originated back in the days where a chaperon would accompany two young
people on a date.

Much more recently it has been extended to any useless extra person,
whether third or not.


--
oh no! there's been unauthorized access to my paypal account!!! ...
how nice of someone at a grade school in korea to notice and
inform me of it

[J. J. Lodder]

Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
> > * J. J. Lodder:
> >

> >> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> >>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> >>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> >>>> hauler trucks.
> >>>
> >>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
> >>>

> >>>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
> >>>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
> >>>
> >>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
> >>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
> >>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles. Helpful pictures and
> >>> details at
> >>>
> >>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
> >>

> >> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> >
> > Except for three-wheelers.
> >

> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

The things were popular, for a while.
Apart from the cost, the chief attraction was
that legally they were motorcycles.
You could drive one if you had a motorcycle licence,
but not an ordinary drivers licence.

A distant family member had one, for that reason.
He bought one after the Messerschmitt went out of production,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:38:05 +0100, Paul Carmichael
> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >El 24/2/21 a las 13:17, occam escribió:

> >> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>>
> >>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> >> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> >> hauler trucks.
> >

> >The reason I ask is I have often heard Americans refer to "18 wheelers"
> >and I doubt they actually knew exactly how many wheels the vehicle had.
>
> Americans are gifted with sight, and most Americans are quite capable
> of counting up to 18 visible items.
>

> 18-wheelers, or "semis" are distinctive in another way: they are
> articulated units consisting of a cab/tractor and trailer.

I am a bit surprised. Do Americans still have dual tires on trailers?
(that is 4 wheels to the axle)
In Europe those things are obsolete.
Duals have nothing but disadvantages.
More wear on the inner tires, more heating,
more fuel consumption overall, difficult to inspect,
poor cornering, and so on.

The only reason for havng them was that manufacturers
couldn't build singles with enough load capacity.
Nowadays they can. (sometimes callled 'supersingles')
Duals remain only on the driven axles,
where the traction is needed.
(or in special cases, like extreme loads, off-road, etc.)

Jan
(who hasn't said backward)

PS Here is a typical European one, 12 wheels,
set aside for easy inspection
<https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbellucht#/media/Bestand:Assistancek%C3%A5ren_B%C3%A4rgningsbil.jpg>

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 4:11:18 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 12:55:39 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>

> > > > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> > > > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

> > > > It makes little sense anyway:
> > > > the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
> > > > So there are three axles,
> > > > but it is normally running on only two.
> > >
> > > Small countries, small trucks?
> > ??? Euroland is completely unknown to you?
>
> Yes. Is that a theme park trying to compete with EuroDisney?

Merely an economy that is bigger than the USA,
nothing of importance, really.

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <i9mue6...@mid.individual.net> occam:

> > On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
> >>
> >> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
> >>
>
> > Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
> > long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
> > hauler trucks.
>
> But they are called "18 wheelers" by many people, regardless of the
> actual count of wheels, as long as there are "many".

For 'many people' if only leftpondians count.
The term is practically unknown in Europe, except as an Americanism.
Even searching with site:uk brings up American references,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <1dqhrl058k3p$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info> Quinn C wrote:
> > * Ken Blake:
>
> >> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> * J. J. Lodder:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
> >>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
> >>>>
> >>>> Except for three-wheelers.
> >>>
> >>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
> >>
> >> ...or a fifth wheel?
>
> > In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
> > the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
> > cyclists.
>
> "A Fifth Wheel" Is a mount in a heavy duty pickup truck that allows
> hooking up a large trailer, much like a semi truck/big rig/18 wheeler.
> It is a useful thing.

FYA, much lighter ones have existed.
<https://rvshare.com/blog/custom-5th-wheel-travel-trailer-towed-vw-bug/>

> A "third wheel" is an extra person in a group when the other two people
> in the group are a couple. It has nothing to do with cycles. It probably
> originated back in the days where a chaperon would accompany two young
> people on a date.
>
> Much more recently it has been extended to any useless extra person,
> whether third or not.

In these parts it might on rare occasions be positive,
when that extra person might be useful,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <9vbd3gh82aaubjb2d...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper:

Are you really still allowed to have them that dangerous?
In our Eurocrat socialist dictatorship much more safety features
are required to make touching the blade impossible,

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

Alternatively, you could have looked.

> > No, it would have 42 = 9x6.

No nasty comment?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:42:44 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 10:32:07 AM UTC-7, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> El 24/2/21 a las 18:21, Tony Cooper escribió:
>> > You invite a flippant
>> > answer when you post a statement that you doubt Americans know an
>> > 18-wheeler by sight because they don't do a wheel count.
>> >
>> > I know a bicycle from a tricycle without doing a wheel count.
>> MW:
>>
>> 18-wheeler noun
>>
>> Definition of 18-wheeler
>> : a trucking rig consisting of a tractor and a trailer and typically having eighteen wheels
>>
>> See that word? TYPICALLY.
>>
>> My question has been more than answered. It's often used as a generic term.
>...
>
>Seldom, as others have said.
>
>Incidentally, I believe "18-wheeler" was originally truckers' lingo, contrasted with
>"4-wheeler", a car, van, ordinary pickup truck, etc. It was popularized by the CB
>craze in the mid '70s.
>
>https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=18+wheeler%2C18-wheeler%2Ceighteen+wheeler%2Ceighteen-wheeler&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2C18%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C18%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2C18%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2C18%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ceighteen%20-%20wheeler%3B%2Cc0
>
>shorturl.at/lCIQ3
>
>I don't consider it appropriate for journalism, but many journalists seem to like
>informal expressions.

Journalists very often report statements and descriptions used by
others.

In the UK's Daily Mail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9291369/Train-carrying-oil-tankers-collides-18-wheeler-central-Texas.html

Train carrying oil tankers collides with an 18-wheeler in central
Texas, sparking a massive explosion - but the driver and conductor
both survive without major injuries

By Megan Sheets For Dailymail.com
Published: 15:50, 23 February 202

A train collided with an 18-wheeler in central Texas on Tuesday
morning, causing a massive explosion.

The crash unfolded at around 6.45am outside the town of Cameron near
Highway 190, about an hour northeast of Austin.

The Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) train was carrying oil
tankers that exploded on impact with the semi-truck, sparking a fire
that burned down at least one home near the tracks, Cameron police
said.
....

The journalist Megan Sheets is an American living and working in NYC.

She may well have constructed her report using material from at least
two sources (judging by the use of "18-wheeler" and "semi-truck" for the
same vehicle).

Megan Sheets:
https://twitter.com/megan__sheets?lang=en



--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:57:44 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 25/02/21 04:21, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:42:07 +0100, Paul Carmichael
>> <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> BTW, I would have thought a semi-truck was half a truck.
>>

>> When the cab, or tractor, is seen on the road without the trailer
>> attached, it's referred to as a "bob-tail" by those who know the
>> term.
>
>The Australian term for such a combination (cab + trailer) is
>"semi-trailer", but it's not half a trailer. Frequently abbreviated to
>"semi".
>
>I'm surprised to learn that all semis have 18 wheels. Some are bigger
>than others. I'll have to try counting the wheels on the next few I see.

I've looked at some online images.
There are various numbers of axles. Some have just two on the tractor
unit and just two on the trailer, with only two wheels on each axle.
Others have three axles on both tractor and trailer, with four wheels on
each axle except for the front axle. Others have various arrangements in
between.

The number of wheels thus varies between 8 and 22.

Obviously the load-carrying capacity varies accordingly.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:45:46 -0500, Quinn C

<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Ken Blake:
>
>> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>>

>>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>>

>>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>
>>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
>>
>> ...or a fifth wheel?
>
>In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
>the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
>cyclists.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/third+wheel

third wheel

Someone who has no real place or purpose in a situation, likened to
a superfluous extra wheel on a two-wheeled vehicle.

"When Kelly invited me to go to the movies, I didn't know that her
boyfriend would be joining us. I felt like a third wheel the entire
night."

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 20:53:53 +0000, phil <ph...@anonymous.invalid> wrote:

>On 24/02/2021 20:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>> On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>>>

>>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:17:15 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/02/2021 11:27, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>>>> AmE: Does an 18 wheeler always have 18 wheels?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or is it a generic name for a long lorry?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't you think '18' is a rather arbitrary number to describe generic
>>>>>> long (hauler) trucks? My vote goes to 'big rig' as a generic term for
>>>>>> hauler trucks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the voting in the U.S. is in favor of "semi".
>>>>>

>>>>>> Having said that, this quote from somewhere:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Though the smallest tractor trailers have just 10 and the largest
>>>>>> dozens more, most big rigs have 18 wheels."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.smart-trucking.com/18-wheeler/
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we seldom count the wheels, but apparently the normal
>>>>> American semi whose trailer is (or is the same size as?) a standard
>>>>> shipping container has 18 wheels on 5 axles.  Helpful pictures and
>>>>> details at
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.quora.com/Do-18-wheelers-actually-have-18-wheels
>>>>

>>>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>> and naming by number of wheels is unusual.
>>>
>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>

>> And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin
>>
>

>In the context of this discussion, surely the Scammell Scarab is crying
>out for a mention:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Scarab

One of the vehicles shown fits the category of
semi-trailer/articulated-lorry but with only 5 wheels it isn't even an
honorary 18-wheeler:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/British_Railways_Delivery_Truck_London_1962.jpg

[Tony Cooper]

Yes, 18-wheelers always have 18 wheels. Other semi-truck
configurations have more or fewer wheels.

If one of those other configurations was called an 18-wheeler, it
would be a mistake.
--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Tony Cooper]

That could be the reason that the thread was started by someone living
in that Europe place, you know.

Thanks, though, for pointing out the obvious.

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 7:38:12 PM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:

>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 4:11:18 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 12:55:39 PM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>

>>>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

>>>>> > It makes little sense anyway:
>>>>> > the modern European trailer has retractible wheels.
>>>>> > So there are three axles,
>>>>> > but it is normally running on only two.
>>>>> Small countries, small trucks?
>>>> ??? Euroland is completely unknown to you?
>>> Yes. Is that a theme park trying to compete with EuroDisney?

>>> You _just_ said that "European" trailers have normally
>>> (only) two axles, sometimes three. That's pretty small.
>>
>> And the same as in North America. Maybe you don't know much about that
>> continent, either.
>
> This thread is about 18-wheelers.

Yes.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 6:45:50 PM UTC-5, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Ken Blake:
>>> On 2/24/2021 11:28 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

>>>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>> * J. J. Lodder:
>

>>>>> > Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels,
>>>>> > and naming by number of wheels is unusual.

>>>>> Except for three-wheelers.
>>>> You have experience with being a third wheel?
>>> ...or a fifth wheel?
>>
>> In German, it's "the fifth wheel on the car(t)." I always wondered about
>> the English third wheel version, apparently coined by (bi? motor?)
>> cyclists.
>

> Or. dates in "fifth-wheel" countries typically involve four, not just
> two, people?

You've asked this question before; I probably answered it before.

The expression is "fifth wheel on a car(t)", not just "fifth wheel". So
it's clear that the fifth here is the one that is one more than the
normal expectation, and the third person feels as out of place in a
two-person situation as a fifth wheel on a normal four-wheeled vehicle.

In fact, most cars include a fifth wheel as a spare, but I guess not
many people want to be a spare on a date.

We'll see if the rising popularity of polyamory will change the
language. "Like the fourth person in a throuple"?

[Quinn C]

* Tony Cooper:

> HBO recently aired a documentary about the Dale:
>
> https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dale-car-brochure.jpg?w=1501&resize=1501%2C1147
>
> Although, the series was more about the person behind the Dale,
> Elizabeth Carmichael who was born Jerry Charmichael.

Some clarifications:

- no, she wasn't trans
- no, she did have Car- in her last name before working in automobiles
- she went from Jerry to Geraldine (which should be rarer than the
opposite), with Elizabeth as (new) middle name

[Quinn C]

* Dingbat:

> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 4:19:34 PM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 25/02/21 07:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>>> > On 24-Feb-21 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>>> >> * J. J. Lodder:
>>> >>> Europeans are not in the habit of counting wheels, and naming by
>>> >>> number of wheels is unusual.
>>> >>
>>> >> Except for three-wheelers.
>>> >>

>>> > And then, only when one is Reliant on Robin.
>>> >
>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin

>>> There's an annual road race from Darwin to Adelaide (about 3000 km) for
>>> solar-powered cars. It's noticeable that many of the contestants have
>>> three wheels.
>> Two in front, one in back? Unlike the Robin.
>>
> India had a car like that but its tendency to overturn on curves
> killed the market for such a car. I haven't seen 3 wheeled HPVs &
> PVVs (or whatever photovoltaic vehicles are called) cited for a
> tendency to overturn, so I wonder what made that car so prone to it.

If you're talking about the solar cars custom-built for races, they tend
to be very flat. The low center of gravity should help.

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:49:43 -0500, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Tony Cooper:
>
>> HBO recently aired a documentary about the Dale:
>>
>> https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/dale-car-brochure.jpg?w=1501&resize=1501%2C1147
>>
>> Although, the series was more about the person behind the Dale,
>> Elizabeth Carmichael who was born Jerry Charmichael.
>
>Some clarifications:
>
>- no, she wasn't trans
>- no, she did have Car- in her last name before working in automobiles
>- she went from Jerry to Geraldine (which should be rarer than the
>opposite), with Elizabeth as (new) middle name

I watched the entire series. This portion of the thread has been
about 3-wheeled automobiles, and I wanted to include the Dale as one
in the mix.

I didn't want to divert the thread a discussion on EC's gender
identification history, so I didn't include the word "trans" in my
post.

The "Charmichael" spelling was a typo on my part.

[Tony Cooper]

Florida, at one time, had as many sawmills as any state in the Union.
Also, more miles of railroad track than many states. Both were
because Florida cypress trees were a source of fine lumber.

The cypress trees were cut down, cut into lumber at sawmills, and the
lumber was then transported on trains.

That eventually led to the land sales boom because promoters could
bring people down from the north on trains and on trackage that led to
the undeveloped parts of the state.

Now Florida has many miles of public walking/biking trails built on
those former rail lines.