Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Female maestro?
1,582 views
Skip to first unread message
Dr Peter Young
Oct 11, 2011, 9:33:03 AM10/11/11
to
Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
preferable?
played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
preferable?
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
James Hogg
Oct 11, 2011, 9:57:01 AM10/11/11
to
Dr Peter Young wrote:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest
> of things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed
> into English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
I found this on one website:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest
> of things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed
> into English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
"Maestro Beth Macmillan, our executive director manages the affairs of
the organization con brio, much as a Conductor directs a production.
(Purists are usually offended that 'Maestro' is gender biased and there
is no Italian feminine word-form for conductor; the word Maestra, means
school-mistress, not a female maestro.)"
I don't know how true that last claim is. I found an Italian site where
Aurora Purita is titled "Maestra di cappella"
--
James
Nick Spalding
Oct 11, 2011, 10:00:26 AM10/11/11
to
Dr Peter Young wrote, in <2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
I heard what was probably the same lady referred to as "maestra" a few
days ago, also on BBC R3. I mentally gave the presenter brownie points
for that.
Agent's spell checker didn't like it however. It will the next time.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
days ago, also on BBC R3. I mentally gave the presenter brownie points
for that.
Agent's spell checker didn't like it however. It will the next time.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
James Silverton
Oct 11, 2011, 10:15:53 AM10/11/11
to
The conductor of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra has been referred to
as "Maestra Marin Alsop" for quite some time. I also have added Maestra
to my Thunderbird dictionary. However, I would point out that French
female lawyers can have the title "Maitre", no distinction being made on
basis of gender.
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
Dr Peter Young
Oct 11, 2011, 10:12:50 AM10/11/11
to
Here the British dictionary didn't like it, but the Italian one did.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Oct 11, 2011, 12:48:55 PM10/11/11
to
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>probably do,
I do.
> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>preferable?
>
>Peter.
In my limited experience "maestra" is not sufficiently well-known in
English for this sentence to have the intended effect:
"... that rarest of things, a maestra".
The use of the word as a title in "Maestra <female name>" (the female
equivalent of "Maestro <male name>") is a bit different because even if
unfamiliar it is possible to infer the meaning from the context.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Witziges Rätsel
Oct 11, 2011, 12:55:20 PM10/11/11
to
On 10/11/2011 10:15 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 10/11/2011 10:00 AM, Nick Spalding wrote:
>> Dr Peter Young wrote, in<2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
>>
[snip]> On 10/11/2011 10:00 AM, Nick Spalding wrote:
>> Dr Peter Young wrote, in<2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
>> on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
>>
> However, I would point out that French female lawyers can have
> the title "Maitre", no distinction being made on
> basis of gender.
>
And in the US, a woman senator is not called a "senatrix".
Mike Easter
Oct 11, 2011, 1:15:12 PM10/11/11
to
Dr Peter Young wrote:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
I believe that the feminization of words for jobs is passe/passe'. Women
are firemen, policemen, aviators, actors, and maestros nowadays. Also
master electricians and such.
Sometimes a feminine suffix is 'useful' for something or other related
to a job, but usually not.
Of course the wiki has an article on the subject; and there are lots of
other articles to be found starting there or elsewhere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutrality_in_languages_with_grammatical_gender
"Gender neutrality in languages with grammatical gender implies
promoting language usage which is balanced in its treatment of the
genders."
Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_English &
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_job_title
--
Mike Easter
R H Draney
Oct 11, 2011, 2:08:47 PM10/11/11
to
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Witziges_R=E4tsel?= filted:
And this woman's followers see nothing wrong with calling her the "Supreme
Master":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Master_Ching_Hai
....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Arcadian Rises
Oct 11, 2011, 2:27:15 PM10/11/11
to
On Oct 11, 10:15 am, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
wrote:
> On 10/11/2011 10:00 AM, Nick Spalding wrote:
>
> > Dr Peter Young wrote, in<2b96842052.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> > on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
>
> >> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> >> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> >> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> >> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> >> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> >> preferable?
>
> > I heard what was probably the same lady referred to as "maestra" a few
> > days ago, also on BBC R3. I mentally gave the presenter brownie points
> > for that.
>
> > Agent's spell checker didn't like it however. It will the next time.
>
> The conductor of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra has been referred to
> as "Maestra Marin Alsop" for quite some time. I also have added Maestra
> to my Thunderbird dictionary. However, I would point out that French
> female lawyers can have the title "Maitre", no distinction being made on
> basis of gender.
wrote:
> On 10/11/2011 10:00 AM, Nick Spalding wrote:
>
> > on Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100:
>
> >> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> >> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> >> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> >> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> >> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> >> preferable?
>
> > I heard what was probably the same lady referred to as "maestra" a few
> > days ago, also on BBC R3. I mentally gave the presenter brownie points
> > for that.
>
> > Agent's spell checker didn't like it however. It will the next time.
>
> The conductor of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra has been referred to
> as "Maestra Marin Alsop" for quite some time. I also have added Maestra
> to my Thunderbird dictionary. However, I would point out that French
> female lawyers can have the title "Maitre", no distinction being made on
> basis of gender.
Not only the female lawyers, but all the other animaux. See the fable
"Le corbeau et le renard" (Maitre corbeau sur un arbre...)
>
> --
>
> James Silverton, Potomac
>
> I'm *not* not.jim.silver...@verizon.net
Arcadian Rises
Oct 11, 2011, 2:28:35 PM10/11/11
to
And speaking of gender distinction, what is the femenin for "Master of
the Universe"?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Oct 11, 2011, 2:44:55 PM10/11/11
to
In any case, why are we worrying about "female maestro" when no one
seems worried about "female conductor"? Surely those who want
"maestra" ought also to want "conductress" or "conductrix"?
--
athel
James Silverton
Oct 11, 2011, 3:14:50 PM10/11/11
to
English feminine words like actress, poetess, waitress etc. but am not
uncomfortable with feminine titles from other languages. I think I am
coming to the point of dropping "Maestra" tho', unlike "poetess", it
does not have a pejorative sense to me. I have no real use for terms
like "female conductor" outside discussions like this one.
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
tony cooper
Oct 11, 2011, 3:17:12 PM10/11/11
to
Wife
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
D. Stussy
Oct 11, 2011, 3:30:22 PM10/11/11
to
"Arcadian Rises" <Arcadi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7a74d45d-c108-4c88...@m5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
news:7a74d45d-c108-4c88...@m5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
====
Mistress of the Universe, of course.
Iain Archer
Oct 11, 2011, 3:53:07 PM10/11/11
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote on Tue, 11 Oct 2011Or a specifically male version of prima donna.
--
Iain Archer To email, please use Reply-To address
--
Iain Archer To email, please use Reply-To address
Dr Peter Young
Oct 11, 2011, 4:33:11 PM10/11/11
to
In Italian Opera, that was a standard term: Primo Uomo.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Oct 11, 2011, 5:04:13 PM10/11/11
to
Yes, but you'd sound very pretentious if you said of someone (and in
your experience as a consultant anaesthetist you must have encountered
plenty of suitable targets) "he's a bit of a primo uomo", whereas it
sounds quite natural (to me) to say "he's a bit of a prima donna" --
indeed, I'm pretty sure I've heard this said without finding it in the
least odd.
--
athel
Dr Peter Young
Oct 11, 2011, 5:06:29 PM10/11/11
to
John Dean
Oct 11, 2011, 5:52:25 PM10/11/11
to
Dr Peter Young wrote:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
>
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
>
I noted in the French production of 'Engrenages' (billed as 'Spiral' in the
UK) both male and female lawyers are addressed as 'ma�tre'
--
John Dean
Oxford
J. J. Lodder
Oct 12, 2011, 4:34:08 AM10/12/11
to
J. J. Lodder
Oct 12, 2011, 4:34:08 AM10/12/11
to
As is 'Madame le ministre'.
It is the ministere which has the le, not the Madame.
Hence a quarrel with the Academie
when a Madame insisted on being 'Madame la ministre',
Jan
Oliver Cromm
Oct 12, 2011, 1:17:52 PM10/12/11
to
* J. J. Lodder:
> John Dean <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
>>
>> I noted in the French production of 'Engrenages' (billed as 'Spiral' in the
>> UK) both male and female lawyers are addressed as 'maître'
Québec, feminized forms are used far more often than in France.
--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum
> John Dean <john...@fraglineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
>>
>> I noted in the French production of 'Engrenages' (billed as 'Spiral' in the
>
> Entirely correct, grammatically.
> As is 'Madame le ministre'.
> It is the ministere which has the le, not the Madame.
>
> Hence a quarrel with the Academie
> when a Madame insisted on being 'Madame la ministre',
However, these usages differ from country to country. Here in
> Entirely correct, grammatically.
> As is 'Madame le ministre'.
> It is the ministere which has the le, not the Madame.
>
> Hence a quarrel with the Academie
> when a Madame insisted on being 'Madame la ministre',
Québec, feminized forms are used far more often than in France.
--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum
Oliver Cromm
Oct 12, 2011, 1:21:51 PM10/12/11
to
* Peter Duncanson (BrE):
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
> <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>probably do,
>
> I do.
>
>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>preferable?
>
> In my limited experience "maestra" is not sufficiently well-known in
> English for this sentence to have the intended effect:
> "... that rarest of things, a maestra".
>
> The use of the word as a title in "Maestra <female name>" (the female
> equivalent of "Maestro <male name>") is a bit different because even if
> unfamiliar it is possible to infer the meaning from the context.
On the other hand, I recently several times heard English speakers
shout "Brava!" to a female performer. Now that sounded pretentious
to me - I have never heard it in my native German, and normally
the situation is reversed: many speakers of German try to be true
to original pronunciations to a degree that is considered
pretentious in English.
--
Java is kind of like kindergarten. There are lots of rules you
have to remember. If you don't follow them, the compiler makes
you sit in the corner until you do.
Don Raab
Mark Brader
Oct 12, 2011, 4:53:56 PM10/12/11
to
Peter Young:
>>> "... a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed
>>> into English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
>>> "... a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed
>>> into English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
Well, I don't use either form of the word myself. If someone else
said "maestra", I'd have to stop and figure out what they meant.
(Compare the way "mayoress" has been used both to mean a female mayor
and to mean the wife of a male mayor.)
Oliver Cromm:
> On the other hand, I recently several times heard English speakers
> shout "Brava!" to a female performer. Now that sounded pretentious
> to me...
On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
name is given as Brava. And the logo includes a small decoration before
the latter V, serving sort of like a syllable mark. I thought it was
rather clever.
--
Mark Brader | "For the stronger we our houses do build,
Toronto | The less chance we have of being killed."
m...@vex.net | -- William McGonagall, "The Tay Bridge Disaster"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Robert Bannister
Oct 13, 2011, 3:56:16 AM10/13/11
to
So, can he also be a "divus"?
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 13, 2011, 3:58:28 AM10/13/11
to
Pronunciation thing. If it sounded like "primo womo", few would
understand, but "primo 'omo" would get some titters.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Oct 13, 2011, 4:00:23 AM10/13/11
to
Not even "up to tricks"?
--
Robert Bannister
Mike Lyle
Oct 13, 2011, 5:15:32 PM10/13/11
to
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:53:56 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>Peter Young:
>>>> "... a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>>> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed
>>>> into English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>>> preferable?
>
>Well, I don't use either form of the word myself. If someone else
>said "maestra", I'd have to stop and figure out what they meant.
>(Compare the way "mayoress" has been used both to mean a female mayor
>and to mean the wife of a male mayor.)
>
>Oliver Cromm:
>> On the other hand, I recently several times heard English speakers
>> shout "Brava!" to a female performer. Now that sounded pretentious
>> to me...
>
>On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
>ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
>name is given as Brava. And the logo includes a small decoration before
>the latter V, serving sort of like a syllable mark. I thought it was
>rather clever.
Bra va bene.
--
Mike.
R H Draney
Oct 13, 2011, 6:17:08 PM10/13/11
to
Mike Lyle filted:
In context, shouldn't it have been "Bravi"?...r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Oct 14, 2011, 3:37:58 PM10/14/11
to
On 2011-10-12 17:53:56 -0300, Mark Brader said:
> [ ... ]
> On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
> ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
> name is given as Brava.
Something I've noticed is that the young women who appear in brassiere
advertisements tend to be good-looking.
> And the logo includes a small decoration before
> the latter V, serving sort of like a syllable mark. I thought it was
> rather clever.
--
athel
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Oct 18, 2011, 11:59:18 AM10/18/11
to
In article <j71j2j$6po$1...@dont-email.me>,
James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>to my Thunderbird dictionary. However, I would point out that French
Katy
James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>to my Thunderbird dictionary. However, I would point out that French
>female lawyers can have the title "Maitre", no distinction being made on
>basis of gender.
cf "Esquire" - very strange to a UK English ear.
>basis of gender.
Katy
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Oct 18, 2011, 12:02:10 PM10/18/11
to
In article <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>,
>>probably do,
>
>I do.
conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
master of, but why bother?).
Katy
Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>probably do,
>
>I do.
>
>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>preferable?
>>
Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>preferable?
>>
conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
master of, but why bother?).
Katy
Dr Peter Young
Oct 18, 2011, 1:38:39 PM10/18/11
to
particularly when addressing a particularly eminent specimen of the
type. But then I'm not a professional musician ...
Probably a tad pretentious for a radio presenter, though, which is
where we came in.
Mike Lyle
Oct 18, 2011, 5:45:41 PM10/18/11
to
On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:38:39 +0100, Dr Peter Young
That suggests a degree of irony.
They seem to do it on the "Live From the Met" broadcasts, so perhaps
it's more of an Americanism. Leftpond comments?
--
Mike.
<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>On 18 Oct 2011 ke...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>,
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
>>><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>>>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>>>things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>>>probably do,
>>>
>>>I do.
>>>
>>>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>>>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>>>preferable?
>>>>
>
>> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
>> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
>> Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
>> master of, but why bother?).
>
>I have an idea that it tends to be professional musicians' usage,
>particularly when addressing a particularly eminent specimen of the
>type. But then I'm not a professional musician ...
>
>Probably a tad pretentious for a radio presenter, though, which is
>where we came in.
>
There's the variety-show "Can we have the music, Maestro, please?"
>On 18 Oct 2011 ke...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>,
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
>>><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>>>played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>>>things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>>>probably do,
>>>
>>>I do.
>>>
>>>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>>>English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>>>preferable?
>>>>
>
>> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
>> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
>> Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
>> master of, but why bother?).
>
>I have an idea that it tends to be professional musicians' usage,
>particularly when addressing a particularly eminent specimen of the
>type. But then I'm not a professional musician ...
>
>Probably a tad pretentious for a radio presenter, though, which is
>where we came in.
>
That suggests a degree of irony.
They seem to do it on the "Live From the Met" broadcasts, so perhaps
it's more of an Americanism. Leftpond comments?
--
Mike.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Oct 18, 2011, 8:54:34 PM10/18/11
to
On 2011-10-18 13:02:10 -0300, ke...@cam.ac.uk said:
> In article <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>,
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
>> <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do,
>>
>> I do.
>>
>>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
>>>
>
> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious?
Yes, and more than a tad.
> In article <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>,
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:33:03 +0100, Dr Peter Young
>> <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
>>> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
>>> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
>>> probably do,
>>
>> I do.
>>
>>> that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
>>> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
>>> preferable?
>>>
>
> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious?
--
athel
Peter Brooks
Oct 18, 2011, 10:32:05 PM10/18/11
to
On Oct 14, 9:37 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ifr88.cnrs-mrs.fr>
wrote:
particularly.
wrote:
> On 2011-10-12 17:53:56 -0300, Mark Brader said:
>
> > [ ... ]
> > On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
> > ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
> > name is given as Brava.
>
> Something I've noticed is that the young women who appear in brassiere
> advertisements tend to be good-looking.
>
Really? I've always thought they were rather bad-looking. Sophie Dahl
>
> > [ ... ]
> > On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
> > ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
> > name is given as Brava.
>
> Something I've noticed is that the young women who appear in brassiere
> advertisements tend to be good-looking.
>
particularly.
Mark Brader
Oct 19, 2011, 1:10:26 AM10/19/11
to
Mark Brader:
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "This is as 'real' as your so-called life gets!"
m...@vex.net | "Q Who", ST:TNG, Maurice Hurley
> On the third hand, around here in recent months I've been seeing poster
> ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
> name is given as Brava.
Apparently I was mistaken; it's actually the name of a store, not a brand.
> ads featuring good-looking young women wearing a brassiere whose brand
> name is given as Brava.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "This is as 'real' as your so-called life gets!"
m...@vex.net | "Q Who", ST:TNG, Maurice Hurley
Bob Martin
Oct 19, 2011, 1:18:25 AM10/19/11
to
when it stopped.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Oct 19, 2011, 8:13:03 AM10/19/11
to
the early 70s had me as "Peter W Duncanson, Esquire". I think that was
at the tail end of the custom whereby a man was sometimes "XYZ, Esquire"
rather than "Mr XYZ".
OED on "esquire":
3. As a title accompanying a man's name. Originally applied to those
who were 'esquires' in sense 2; subsequently extended to other
persons to whom an equivalent degree of rank or status is by
courtesy attributed.
The designation of 'esquire' is now commonly understood to be due by
courtesy to all persons (not in clerical orders or having any higher
title of rank) who are regarded as 'gentlemen' by birth, position,
or education. It is used only on occasions of more or less
ceremonious mention, and in the addresses of letters, etc.; on other
occasions the prefix 'Mr.' is employed instead. When 'esquire' is
appended to a name, no prefixed title (such as 'Mr.,' 'Doctor,'
'Captain,' etc.) is used. In the U.S. the title belongs officially
to lawyers and public officers.
Sense 2:
a. A man belonging to the higher order of English gentry, ranking
immediately below a knight.
b. A landed proprietor, (country) 'squire'. arch.
I don't see that my "birth, position, or education" would have qualified
me to be called Esquire.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
James Silverton
Oct 19, 2011, 8:35:19 AM10/19/11
to
still seems incongruous to see, eg, "Jane Simmons, Esq." for a female
lawyer in the US.
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Oct 19, 2011, 12:24:22 PM10/19/11
to
In article <9g78dh...@mid.individual.net>,
I was referring to the American use for lawyers (male or female), not to the UK
usage (which hasn't entirely died out).
Katy
usage (which hasn't entirely died out).
Katy
Mike Lyle
Oct 19, 2011, 6:01:44 PM10/19/11
to
argued here before, it's just silly. The implication of "Esquire" is
that one's next step up is knighthood, so in a title-free republic
it's at best meaningless and at worst revolutionary. (Q Victoria
actually made at least one man an esquire by letters patent, I learned
from the official pamphlet on forms of address.)
--
Mike.
Peter Moylan
Oct 19, 2011, 7:27:46 PM10/19/11
to
Mike Lyle wrote:
> Every dog must scratch his own fleas in his own way, but as I've
> argued here before, it's just silly. The implication of "Esquire" is
> that one's next step up is knighthood, so in a title-free republic
> it's at best meaningless and at worst revolutionary. (Q Victoria
> actually made at least one man an esquire by letters patent, I learned
> from the official pamphlet on forms of address.)
>
Title-free? When I went to a US university for a while I was overwhelmed
> Every dog must scratch his own fleas in his own way, but as I've
> argued here before, it's just silly. The implication of "Esquire" is
> that one's next step up is knighthood, so in a title-free republic
> it's at best meaningless and at worst revolutionary. (Q Victoria
> actually made at least one man an esquire by letters patent, I learned
> from the official pamphlet on forms of address.)
>
by the titles. I myself was addressed as "Professor" even though I came
from Australia as a lowly Lecturer, it being less that ten years since I
had completed my PhD. The dean was always called "Dean Someone". On the
TV it was always "President Reagan" and never "Mr Reagan, the
president". Other dignities were called things like "Secretary Smith"
and "Treasurer Jones" as if those job descriptions were part of their
names. I think there was even a "Deputy Dawg".
I came away with the impression that Americans use titles a lot more
than other people.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Arcadian Rises
Oct 19, 2011, 9:04:31 PM10/19/11
to
On Oct 19, 7:27 pm, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
wrote:
Right, I was just about to write something about addressing the
operator by his or her jhob description i.e. "Operator" when it dawned
on me that this job might have disappeared..
wrote:
operator by his or her jhob description i.e. "Operator" when it dawned
on me that this job might have disappeared..
Bob Martin
Oct 20, 2011, 1:31:48 AM10/20/11
to
in 1810305 20111020 002746 Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> Every dog must scratch his own fleas in his own way, but as I've
>> argued here before, it's just silly. The implication of "Esquire" is
>> that one's next step up is knighthood, so in a title-free republic
>> it's at best meaningless and at worst revolutionary. (Q Victoria
>> actually made at least one man an esquire by letters patent, I learned
>> from the official pamphlet on forms of address.)
>>
>Title-free? When I went to a US university for a while I was overwhelmed
>by the titles. I myself was addressed as "Professor" even though I came
>from Australia as a lowly Lecturer, it being less that ten years since I
>had completed my PhD. The dean was always called "Dean Someone". On the
>TV it was always "President Reagan" and never "Mr Reagan, the
>president". Other dignities were called things like "Secretary Smith"
>and "Treasurer Jones" as if those job descriptions were part of their
>names. I think there was even a "Deputy Dawg".
I find "my name is Chief Inspector Banks" to be slightly ridiculous.
>Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> Every dog must scratch his own fleas in his own way, but as I've
>> argued here before, it's just silly. The implication of "Esquire" is
>> that one's next step up is knighthood, so in a title-free republic
>> it's at best meaningless and at worst revolutionary. (Q Victoria
>> actually made at least one man an esquire by letters patent, I learned
>> from the official pamphlet on forms of address.)
>>
>Title-free? When I went to a US university for a while I was overwhelmed
>by the titles. I myself was addressed as "Professor" even though I came
>from Australia as a lowly Lecturer, it being less that ten years since I
>had completed my PhD. The dean was always called "Dean Someone". On the
>TV it was always "President Reagan" and never "Mr Reagan, the
>president". Other dignities were called things like "Secretary Smith"
>and "Treasurer Jones" as if those job descriptions were part of their
>names. I think there was even a "Deputy Dawg".
What was his mother thinking?
the Omrud
Oct 20, 2011, 4:29:15 AM10/20/11
to
--
David
John Holmes
Oct 20, 2011, 10:40:56 PM10/20/11
to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr9bIt8UyM4
Does a maestro rank higher than a professor?
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Mike Lyle
Oct 22, 2011, 5:02:23 PM10/22/11
to
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:40:56 +1100, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead>
wrote:
Usually, I'd have thought. But I don't know how often Fats, peace be
upon him, appeared at the Met.
--
Mike.
wrote:
upon him, appeared at the Met.
--
Mike.
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Oct 22, 2011, 5:02:57 PM10/22/11
to
>On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:38:39 +0100, Dr Peter Young
><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 18 Oct 2011 ke...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
>>> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
>>> Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
>>> master of, but why bother?).
>>
>>I have an idea that it tends to be professional musicians' usage,
>>particularly when addressing a particularly eminent specimen of the
>>type. But then I'm not a professional musician ...
When I've heard it in a professional context it has definitely been jocular.
><pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 18 Oct 2011 ke...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone else here think that calling an orchestral (or indeed choral)
>>> conductor "Maestro" is a tad pretentious? (I know it's a perfectly normal
>>> Italian word for the animal in question, particularly if you say what he is a
>>> master of, but why bother?).
>>
>>I have an idea that it tends to be professional musicians' usage,
>>particularly when addressing a particularly eminent specimen of the
>>type. But then I'm not a professional musician ...
This is in the UK; I don't know what US practice may be, and as someone remarked
in another thread I believe the Americans tend towards using job titles like
this rather more than we do.
Katy
rp.east...@btopenworld.com
Mar 29, 2018, 5:33:07 AM3/29/18
to
Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender terms to everyone.
Peter Moylan
Mar 29, 2018, 5:40:17 AM3/29/18
to
this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 7:36:02 AM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> > Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> > gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> > terms to everyone.
>
> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> > Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> > gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> > terms to everyone.
>
> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
(willy-nilly).
The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter Young.
RH Draney
Mar 29, 2018, 8:54:31 AM3/29/18
to
Peter Young
Mar 29, 2018, 9:43:51 AM3/29/18
to
rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
Peter (the old one).
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 10:10:22 AM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:43:51 AM UTC-4, Peter Young wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>>> terms to everyone.
> >>>
> >>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> >>
> >> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> >> (willy-nilly).
> >>
> >> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter Young.
>
> > Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>
> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
>
> Peter (the old one).
I put it in because I thought I saw it in my glance at the first heading.
> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>>> terms to everyone.
> >>>
> >>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> >>
> >> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> >> (willy-nilly).
> >>
> >> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter Young.
>
> > Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>
> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
>
> Peter (the old one).
We have learned that periods are beginning to be seen after BrE
abbreviations, but perhaps that is more a usage of the Young.
Peter Moylan
Mar 29, 2018, 11:34:05 AM3/29/18
to
On 29/03/18 22:35, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>> terms to everyone.
>>
>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>
> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> (willy-nilly).
Yet every such message I have seen fails to quote the original. The only
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>> terms to everyone.
>>
>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>
> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> (willy-nilly).
hints I get that this might be an ancient thread are:
- The "Re:" in the Subject header;
- the fact that the message is unclear for lack of context.
Quinn C
Mar 29, 2018, 12:31:52 PM3/29/18
to
* Peter Young:
> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter Young.
>
>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>
> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
Yes, only over there. In AmE and CanE, you are "Dr. Young".
--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106
> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter Young.
>
>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>
> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106
Quinn C
Mar 29, 2018, 12:31:53 PM3/29/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>> terms to everyone.
>>
>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>
> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> (willy-nilly).
Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>> terms to everyone.
>>
>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>
> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> (willy-nilly).
--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 1:00:25 PM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:34:05 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 29/03/18 22:35, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>> terms to everyone.
> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> > (willy-nilly).
>
> Yet every such message I have seen fails to quote the original.
That's further evidence that GG isn't involved, because the only way you can
> On 29/03/18 22:35, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>> terms to everyone.
> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
> > (willy-nilly).
>
> Yet every such message I have seen fails to quote the original.
post a message in GG without the quoted original is by manually deleting
what was quoted.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 1:02:13 PM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>> terms to everyone.
> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
> > quoted (willy-nilly).
>
> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools." Does it not bother you that
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>> terms to everyone.
> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
> > quoted (willy-nilly).
>
> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
Peter Young
Mar 29, 2018, 1:12:55 PM3/29/18
to
On 29 Mar 2018 Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> * Peter Young:
>> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter
>>>> Young.
>>
>>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>>
>> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
>> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
>> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
> Yes, only over there. In AmE and CanE, you are "Dr. Young".
And in Sweden I was D.r Young, observing the usage here that the dot
> * Peter Young:
>> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter
>>>> Young.
>>
>>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>>
>> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
>> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
>> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
> Yes, only over there. In AmE and CanE, you are "Dr. Young".
represents a missing letter or letters. The usage Dr conforms with
this.
Peter.
Quinn C
Mar 29, 2018, 1:21:28 PM3/29/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>
>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>
> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
I don't see the connection.
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>
>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>
> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
> Does it not bother you that
> certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
users, I'm somewhat contrite.
Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
Gmail user. Those are facts.
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance.
Robert R. Coveyou
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Mar 29, 2018, 1:43:13 PM3/29/18
to
Quinn C wrote:
>
> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>
I.e., "pathologically anal."
>
> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 1:48:29 PM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:21:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>>>> terms to everyone.
> >>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> >>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
> >>> quoted (willy-nilly).
> >> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
> > "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>
> I don't see the connection.
>
> > Does it not bother you that
> > certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
>
> It depends who those people are. I'm not bothered by Mac users
> criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
> users, I'm somewhat contrite.
>
> Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
> Gmail user. Those are facts.
What "user" are you talking about? If the reviver be using GG, then they
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
> >>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
> >>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
> >>>>> terms to everyone.
> >>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
> >>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
> >>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
> >>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
> >>> quoted (willy-nilly).
> >> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
> > "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>
> I don't see the connection.
>
> > Does it not bother you that
> > certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
>
> It depends who those people are. I'm not bothered by Mac users
> criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
> users, I'm somewhat contrite.
>
> Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
> Gmail user. Those are facts.
will come back to see responses to their message. If whatever search engine
dredged up PY's original message happens to use GG to send a response, that
does not make the person aware of GG, let alone a user of it.
Richard Tobin
Mar 29, 2018, 2:26:41 PM3/29/18
to
In article <df9431fb-9972-4d90...@googlegroups.com>,
Path: usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.etla.org!news.
+ uzoreto.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.
+ iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!
+ nntp.giganews.com!j29no441753qtc.0!news-out.google.com!a19ni633qtj.1!nntp.google.com!
+ j29no441743qtc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 02:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=79.75.16.147; posting-
+ account=BBDbqAoAAAAF0wCjW93YKEZINkSEmKZ6
NNTP-Posting-Host: 79.75.16.147
References: <2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
+ <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>
+ <106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6ead3a7f-435c-41ee...@googlegroups.com>
-- Richard
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
>> > (willy-nilly).
>> Yet every such message I have seen fails to quote the original.
>That's further evidence that GG isn't involved, because the only way you can
>post a message in GG without the quoted original is by manually deleting
>what was quoted.
The headers leave no doubt that Google Groups was "involved":
>> >> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>> >> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>> >> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>> > If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been quoted
>> > (willy-nilly).
>> Yet every such message I have seen fails to quote the original.
>That's further evidence that GG isn't involved, because the only way you can
>post a message in GG without the quoted original is by manually deleting
>what was quoted.
Path: usenet.inf.ed.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.etla.org!news.
+ uzoreto.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.
+ iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!
+ nntp.giganews.com!j29no441753qtc.0!news-out.google.com!a19ni633qtj.1!nntp.google.com!
+ j29no441743qtc.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 02:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=79.75.16.147; posting-
+ account=BBDbqAoAAAAF0wCjW93YKEZINkSEmKZ6
NNTP-Posting-Host: 79.75.16.147
References: <2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
+ <4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>
+ <106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6ead3a7f-435c-41ee...@googlegroups.com>
-- Richard
bebe...@aol.com
Mar 29, 2018, 2:43:19 PM3/29/18
to
and use GG knowingly to send a response. Or what am I missing?
Default User
Mar 29, 2018, 2:48:21 PM3/29/18
to
quote the entire message (sigs included) because that's the default.
Brian
snide...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 4:30:20 PM3/29/18
to
The mobile default may be different, but if the headers have a mobile indicator
I'm not spotting it.
For Mister Moylan:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 at 6:33:03 AM UTC-7, Dr Peter Young wrote:
> Heard on BBC Radio 3 this afternoon, a presenter introducing a piece
> played by and orchestra under a female conductor, "... that rarest of
> things, a female maestro". Do people think, and they I think they
> probably do, that the word "maestro" has become so much absorbed into
> English that the, to my ears, correct "maestra" would be not be
> preferable?
>
> Peter.
>
/dps
Quinn C
Mar 29, 2018, 5:00:20 PM3/29/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:21:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>>> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>>
>> I don't see the connection.
Plus: Good tools - half the work (old German saying.)
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:21:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>>> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>>
>> I don't see the connection.
>>> Does it not bother you that
>>> certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
>>
>> It depends who those people are. I'm not bothered by Mac users
>> criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
>> users, I'm somewhat contrite.
>>
>> Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
>> Gmail user. Those are facts.
>
> What "user" are you talking about? If the reviver be using GG, then they
> will come back to see responses to their message. If whatever search engine
> dredged up PY's original message happens to use GG to send a response, that
> does not make the person aware of GG, let alone a user of it.
they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
ticket?
Besides, the theory that some other system exists that "uses GG to send
a response" will be ignored until you post reproducible instructions.
--
Spell checker (n.) One who gives examinations on witchcraft.
Herman Rubin in sci.lang
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 5:29:33 PM3/29/18
to
to GG" -- as opposed to the program automatically sending what it perceived
as a follow-up to a newsgroup posting to that newsgroup, using the default
access device that happened to be built in to the search program that had
turned up an old newsgroup message in the first place?
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 5:31:56 PM3/29/18
to
Germany was on a Lufthansa plane -- but it was billed as from United.
> Besides, the theory that some other system exists that "uses GG to send
> a response" will be ignored until you post reproducible instructions.
a reply, and it goes somewhere, they know not where. Maybe they think it
goes to a Facebook page.
Peter Moylan
Mar 29, 2018, 8:44:37 PM3/29/18
to
bebe...@aol.com
Mar 29, 2018, 8:52:14 PM3/29/18
to
> to GG" -- as opposed to the program automatically sending what it perceived
> as a follow-up to a newsgroup posting to that newsgroup, using the default
> access device that happened to be built in to the search program that had
> turned up an old newsgroup message in the first place?
? If, as you suggest, you search for a given text string that happens
> as a follow-up to a newsgroup posting to that newsgroup, using the default
> access device that happened to be built in to the search program that had
> turned up an old newsgroup message in the first place?
to appear in a newsgroup discussion, the results you get in your search
engine will clearly be labelled with their sources, which may be GG and
e.g. Narkive. Clicking the relative links will take you to GG or Narkive,
respectively, and you'll be using either to send a response knowing full
well where you are and what you're responding to. As simple as that.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 29, 2018, 11:16:33 PM3/29/18
to
happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was used turned
up a message, User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
sender, probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7 years
old.
What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does what you describe?
What is your evidence that the vast majority of computer-users have ever heard
of newsgroups? Some ten years ago, when I was required to switch from Mac to
Windows by an employer, I had to find a way to stay in touch with my newsgroups.
The tech "support" at Verizon Yahoo had never heard of newsgroups and didn't
know where to send me. I don't know how I ended up with GG, but it was presented
(somewhere) as the only option for that particular internet access system.
David Kleinecke
Mar 29, 2018, 11:33:20 PM3/29/18
to
search entry and got the first page of this thread.
Gmail has nothing to do with it. Google Search is causing the
observed activity. Unfortunately most people who find Google
Groups don't understand what they have found.
bebe...@aol.com
Mar 30, 2018, 1:02:20 AM3/30/18
to
> that
> happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was used turned
> up a message,
posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
> User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
> sender,
> probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
> years old.
>
> What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does what you
> describe?
>
> What is your evidence that the vast majority of computer-users have ever
> heard of newsgroups?
someone who's never heard of a newsgroup to understand what it's about
and be aware that some messages can be many years old (or just read their
timestamp).
Snidely
Mar 30, 2018, 4:29:56 AM3/30/18
to
Quinn C was thinking very hard :
> I disagree - perhaps you could call them "not regular users of GG", but
> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
> ticket?
But a difference exists in your example ... the ticketee *intends* to
board an Air Canada lever^pulley^machine. These drive-by posters
might *not* intend to use GG, they just find themselves with a text box
and a POST button. My suspicion is that many of them are using mobile
devices, and so have a stripped-down interface (even compared to most
GG users, but I don't often use my phone that way.
/dps
--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl
> I disagree - perhaps you could call them "not regular users of GG", but
> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
> ticket?
board an Air Canada lever^pulley^machine. These drive-by posters
might *not* intend to use GG, they just find themselves with a text box
and a POST button. My suspicion is that many of them are using mobile
devices, and so have a stripped-down interface (even compared to most
GG users, but I don't often use my phone that way.
/dps
--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl
snide...@gmail.com
Mar 30, 2018, 4:42:09 AM3/30/18
to
I am using my phone. The text box I am filling is labeled "details", and has no pre fill from the message I am replying to. I don't see an option to suck the word text in. I have buttons to post or discard, or to select a different Google app.
/dps "I think it has been revved since last time I did this."
/dps "I think it has been revved since last time I did this."
snide...@gmail.com
Mar 30, 2018, 4:56:33 AM3/30/18
to
This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real keyboard and a wider text box.
/dps
/dps
Snidely
Mar 30, 2018, 4:59:24 AM3/30/18
to
on 3/30/2018, Snidely supposed :
machine", did not turn up your msg. Instead, I got results talking
about CPAP usage in flight.
Search term = "uses GG to send a response" turns up links to Aim Lab,
and to Blizzard, and to discordapp.com.
Seach term = "female maestro" got me results with included Peter Y's
original message (and I can scroll down to see the followups). I did a
switch account, and that left me in GG, but at the top level, but
"recently viewed" got me back to this thread, to which I replied. The
content of that reply represents an honest account of my experience in
posting the reply.
I include the headers below:
X-Received: by 10.200.19.69 with SMTP id
f5mr32231107qtj.23.1522399327260; Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.31.193.140 with SMTP id
r134mr6861048vkf.6.1522399326928; Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Path:
eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!k9no248596qti.1!news-out.google.com!c39ni779qta.0!nntp.google.com!k9no248593qti.1!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <mn.f0597e239b19a228.127094@snitoo>
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=68.5.209.145;
posting-account=Ajm5KAoAAACuNnAsvo0bdi8Bi7IBeAHX
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.5.209.145
References: <2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
<4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>
<106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<6ead3a7f-435c-41ee...@googlegroups.com>
<p9ic9u$58e$1...@dont-email.me>
<d0ebaf48-f343-4161...@googlegroups.com>
<19gp20c7...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<7c51cb89-40bd-4457...@googlegroups.com>
<oame8tfyy94b$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<05595fad-6ae0-4f9f...@googlegroups.com>
<wu3zr57ql0lh$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<mn.f0597e239b19a228.127094@snitoo>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f166961e-5974-489c...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Female maestro?
From: snide...@gmail.com
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:42:07 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 3
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org alt.usage.english:913958
Go to
<URL:https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/alt.usage.english>
and you can see the interface from your computer, as I did in my other
other message.
/dps
--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)
> Quinn C was thinking very hard :
>> I disagree - perhaps you could call them "not regular users of GG", but
>> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
>> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
>> ticket?
>
> But a difference exists in your example ... the ticketee *intends* to board
> an Air Canada lever^pulley^machine. These drive-by posters might *not*
> intend to use GG, they just find themselves with a text box and a POST
> button. My suspicion is that many of them are using mobile devices, and so
> have a stripped-down interface (even compared to most GG users, but I don't
> often use my phone that way.
>
Doing a Google search via Chrome on my phone, terms = "air canada
>> I disagree - perhaps you could call them "not regular users of GG", but
>> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
>> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
>> ticket?
>
> But a difference exists in your example ... the ticketee *intends* to board
> an Air Canada lever^pulley^machine. These drive-by posters might *not*
> intend to use GG, they just find themselves with a text box and a POST
> button. My suspicion is that many of them are using mobile devices, and so
> have a stripped-down interface (even compared to most GG users, but I don't
> often use my phone that way.
>
machine", did not turn up your msg. Instead, I got results talking
about CPAP usage in flight.
Search term = "uses GG to send a response" turns up links to Aim Lab,
and to Blizzard, and to discordapp.com.
Seach term = "female maestro" got me results with included Peter Y's
original message (and I can scroll down to see the followups). I did a
switch account, and that left me in GG, but at the top level, but
"recently viewed" got me back to this thread, to which I replied. The
content of that reply represents an honest account of my experience in
posting the reply.
I include the headers below:
X-Received: by 10.200.19.69 with SMTP id
f5mr32231107qtj.23.1522399327260; Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.31.193.140 with SMTP id
r134mr6861048vkf.6.1522399326928; Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Path:
eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!k9no248596qti.1!news-out.google.com!c39ni779qta.0!nntp.google.com!k9no248593qti.1!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <mn.f0597e239b19a228.127094@snitoo>
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=68.5.209.145;
posting-account=Ajm5KAoAAACuNnAsvo0bdi8Bi7IBeAHX
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.5.209.145
References: <2b9684205...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
<4es8971d73qlsg128...@4ax.com>
<106kgfe0f9ekt$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<6ead3a7f-435c-41ee...@googlegroups.com>
<p9ic9u$58e$1...@dont-email.me>
<d0ebaf48-f343-4161...@googlegroups.com>
<19gp20c7...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<7c51cb89-40bd-4457...@googlegroups.com>
<oame8tfyy94b$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<05595fad-6ae0-4f9f...@googlegroups.com>
<wu3zr57ql0lh$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>
<mn.f0597e239b19a228.127094@snitoo>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f166961e-5974-489c...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Female maestro?
From: snide...@gmail.com
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:42:07 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 3
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org alt.usage.english:913958
Go to
<URL:https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/alt.usage.english>
and you can see the interface from your computer, as I did in my other
other message.
/dps
--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)
Kerr-Mudd,John
Mar 30, 2018, 6:52:51 AM3/30/18
to
you're replying to.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 30, 2018, 8:50:36 AM3/30/18
to
> > that
> > happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was used turned
> > up a message,
>
> Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had been
> posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
at some archaic bit of programming that used to be known as a "newsgroup."
> > User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
> > sender,
>
> Just what it actually does.
>
> > probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
> > years old.
> >
> > What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does what you
> > describe?
>
> I've experienced it first-hand thousands of times.
> > What is your evidence that the vast majority of computer-users have ever
> > heard of newsgroups?
>
> Most have at least used fora, so that it should'nt be too hard for
> someone who's never heard of a newsgroup to understand what it's about
> and be aware that some messages can be many years old (or just read their
> timestamp).
I first encountered "newsgroups" -- sci.lang was mentioned on LINGUIST List,
back when LINGUIST List was a place where people had conversations about
linguistics rather than a commercial service for publishers' and employers'
advertising -- there had been something called "Bulletin Boards" that were
by then obsolete: people kept saying "I posted a message on this board"
and other people would say "This isn't a board."
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 30, 2018, 8:58:08 AM3/30/18
to
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 6:52:51 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
> > experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
> > keyboard and a wider text box.
>
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
> > experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
> > keyboard and a wider text box.
>
> and, as all these old drive-by GG posters, we have few clues to the message
> you're replying to.
> --
> Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Oy! The formerly common hypercorrection disease of "as" for "like." The
> you're replying to.
> --
> Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
hysteria dates to the 1954-1972 slogan "Winston tastes good like a
cigarette should." The sufferers do not understand the difference between
conjunctions and prepositions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_tastes_good_like_a_cigarette_should#Grammar_controversy
bebe...@aol.com
Mar 30, 2018, 11:03:14 AM3/30/18
to
>
> > > that
> > > happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was used turned
> > > up a message,
> >
> > Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had been
> > posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
>
> It did not, however, provide a tutorial indicating that they had arrived
> at some archaic bit of programming that used to be known as a "newsgroup."
>
> > > User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
> > > sender,
> >
> > Just what it actually does.
> >
> > > probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
> > > years old.
> > >
> > > What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does what you
> > > describe?
> >
> > I've experienced it first-hand thousands of times.
>
> Yet you can't offer a single example -- as DK did?
as in stupidity" (with the quotes) and you'll get results linking to
GG and Narkive (my initial point).
>
> > > What is your evidence that the vast majority of computer-users have ever
> > > heard of newsgroups?
> >
> > Most have at least used fora, so that it should'nt be too hard for
> > someone who's never heard of a newsgroup to understand what it's about
> > and be aware that some messages can be many years old (or just read their
> > timestamp).
>
> An unwarranted extrapolation. I don't know what fora are.
Richard Tobin
Mar 30, 2018, 11:56:41 AM3/30/18
to
In article <a40e2f6e-6353-4ae9...@googlegroups.com>,
-- Richard
>> and, as all these old drive-by GG posters, we have few clues to the message
>> you're replying to.
>> you're replying to.
>Oy! The formerly common hypercorrection disease of "as" for "like."
More likely an inadvertent omission of "with".
-- Richard
Kerr-Mudd,John
Mar 31, 2018, 4:54:25 AM3/31/18
to
Anders D. Nygaard
Mar 31, 2018, 9:27:50 AM3/31/18
to
Den 29-03-2018 kl. 19:10 skrev Peter Young:
> On 29 Mar 2018 Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> * Peter Young:
>
>>> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter
>>>>> Young.
>>>
>>>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>>>
>>> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
>>> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
>>> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
>
>> Yes, only over there. In AmE and CanE, you are "Dr. Young".
>
> And in Sweden I was D.r Young, observing the usage here that the dot
> represents a missing letter or letters.
Are you sure it wasn't D:r?
> The usage Dr conforms with this.
/Anders, Denmark
> On 29 Mar 2018 Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> * Peter Young:
>
>>> On 29 Mar 2018 RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>>>> The original goes back only to 10/11/11, originated by one Dr. Peter
>>>>> Young.
>>>
>>>> Dr Peter isn't as young now as he was then....r
>>>
>>> And the other Peter doesn't seem to remember that, over here at any
>>> rate, such abbreviations as Mr and Dr don't take a final full
>>> stop/period. We have covered this extensively in the past
>
>> Yes, only over there. In AmE and CanE, you are "Dr. Young".
>
> And in Sweden I was D.r Young, observing the usage here that the dot
> represents a missing letter or letters.
Are you sure it wasn't D:r?
> The usage Dr conforms with this.
/Anders, Denmark
Peter Young
Mar 31, 2018, 11:08:24 AM3/31/18
to
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter Moylan
Mar 31, 2018, 11:27:16 AM3/31/18
to
On 30/03/18 16:02, bebe...@aol.com wrote:
> Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 05:16:33 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> User-in-question was clearly not "search[ing] for a given text
>> string
>
> What would they be doing with a search engine?
>
>> that happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was
>> used turned up a message,
>
> Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had
> been posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
>
>> User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
>> sender,
>
> Just what it actually does.
>
>> probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
>> years old.
>>
>> What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does
>> what you describe?
>
> I've experienced it first-hand thousands of times.
If you do a Google search for "female maestro" -- something that PTD has
> Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 05:16:33 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> User-in-question was clearly not "search[ing] for a given text
>> string
>
> What would they be doing with a search engine?
>
>> that happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was
>> used turned up a message,
>
> Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had
> been posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
>
>> User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
>> sender,
>
> Just what it actually does.
>
>> probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
>> years old.
>>
>> What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does
>> what you describe?
>
> I've experienced it first-hand thousands of times.
apparently not tried -- it takes you to the GG echo of
alt.usage.english, telling you that this is a Google Group but not
revealing that it is really a Usenet newsgroup. The "reply" arrow is
clearly shown. The timestamp is also shown, but so discreetly than many
people would miss it.
One major flaw in the date display is that it shows only two-digit
years, something that was abandoned in most countries after the Y2K
panic. When I see "10/12/11" it is not at all obvious that this is
intended to be a timestamp. Even if I guess it is a timestamp, it is not
clear whether it means 11 December 2010 or 10 December 2011, or (the
more likely interpretation) it is not a timestamp at all. A four-digit
year would have made it more likely that it was meant to represent a date.
A more serious flaw: it shows the oldest message first. As a result, we
get responses to the oldest message from people who can't be bothered to
notice that there are already responses to this message. Real
newsreaders make it clearer that there is an entire message thread.
pe...@pmoylan.org
Mar 31, 2018, 11:42:30 AM3/31/18
to
You're wrong. This reply is from my phone, using GG.
I thank snide ly for doing the experiment that nobody else could be bothered to do. Most of us, including me, find the GG phone interface so user-unfriendly that we are reluctant to check what happens in real life.
I thank snide ly for doing the experiment that nobody else could be bothered to do. Most of us, including me, find the GG phone interface so user-unfriendly that we are reluctant to check what happens in real life.
Peter Moylan
Mar 31, 2018, 11:44:27 AM3/31/18
to
On 30/03/18 23:58, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 6:52:51 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
>>> experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
>>> keyboard and a wider text box.
>>
>> and, as all these old drive-by GG posters, we have few clues to the message
>> you're replying to.
>> --
>> Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
>
> Oy! The formerly common hypercorrection disease of "as" for "like." The
> hysteria dates to the 1954-1972 slogan "Winston tastes good like a
> cigarette should." The sufferers do not understand the difference between
> conjunctions and prepositions.
Why change the subject?
> On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 6:52:51 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
>>> experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
>>> keyboard and a wider text box.
>>
>> and, as all these old drive-by GG posters, we have few clues to the message
>> you're replying to.
>> --
>> Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
>
> Oy! The formerly common hypercorrection disease of "as" for "like." The
> hysteria dates to the 1954-1972 slogan "Winston tastes good like a
> cigarette should." The sufferers do not understand the difference between
> conjunctions and prepositions.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 31, 2018, 2:40:04 PM3/31/18
to
On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 11:27:16 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 30/03/18 16:02, bebe...@aol.com wrote:
> > Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 05:16:33 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> User-in-question was clearly not "search[ing] for a given text
> >> string
> > What would they be doing with a search engine?
> >> that happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was
> >> used turned up a message,
> > Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had
> > been posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
> >> User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
> >> sender,
> > Just what it actually does.
We can't actually check whether the message went to the sender's email.
> On 30/03/18 16:02, bebe...@aol.com wrote:
> > Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 05:16:33 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> User-in-question was clearly not "search[ing] for a given text
> >> string
> > What would they be doing with a search engine?
> >> that happens to appear in a newsgroup." Whatever search engine was
> >> used turned up a message,
> > Actually, it took the user to the newsgroup where the message had
> > been posted because they'd clicked the relative link.
> >> User hit "reply," probably expecting the message to go to the
> >> sender,
> > Just what it actually does.
> >> probably not having been told that it was 25 or in this case 7
> >> years old.
> >> What is your evidence that whatever search engine was used does
> >> what you describe?
> > I've experienced it first-hand thousands of times.
>
> If you do a Google search for "female maestro" -- something that PTD has
> apparently not tried -- it takes you to the GG echo of
> alt.usage.english, telling you that this is a Google Group but not
> revealing that it is really a Usenet newsgroup. The "reply" arrow is
> clearly shown. The timestamp is also shown, but so discreetly than many
> people would miss it.
>
> One major flaw in the date display is that it shows only two-digit
> years, something that was abandoned in most countries after the Y2K
> panic. When I see "10/12/11" it is not at all obvious that this is
> intended to be a timestamp. Even if I guess it is a timestamp, it is not
> clear whether it means 11 December 2010 or 10 December 2011, or (the
> more likely interpretation) it is not a timestamp at all. A four-digit
> year would have made it more likely that it was meant to represent a date.
>
> A more serious flaw: it shows the oldest message first. As a result, we
> get responses to the oldest message from people who can't be bothered to
> notice that there are already responses to this message. Real
> newsreaders make it clearer that there is an entire message thread.
one message, or one message with a(n overlookable) link to access the
subsequent messages.
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 31, 2018, 2:41:26 PM3/31/18
to
flag. Where did I change a subject?
Snidely
Apr 1, 2018, 3:29:49 AM4/1/18
to
on 3/30/2018, Kerr-Mudd,John supposed :
But the headers do include "In-reply-to:" and "References:".
/dps
--
Ieri, oggi, domani
/dps
--
Ieri, oggi, domani
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 1, 2018, 8:43:27 AM4/1/18
to
On Sunday, April 1, 2018 at 3:29:49 AM UTC-4, Snidely wrote:
> on 3/30/2018, Kerr-Mudd,John supposed :
> > On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
> >> experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
> >> keyboard and a wider text box.
> on 3/30/2018, Kerr-Mudd,John supposed :
> > On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:56:30 GMT, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> This is from my laptop, but using the mobile interface URL. The
> >> experience is similar to that of using my phone, except I have a real
> >> keyboard and a wider text box.
> > and, as all these old drive-by GG posters, we have few clues to the message
> > you're replying to.
>
> But the headers do include "In-reply-to:" and "References:".
Only if you go into the "Settings" menu and choose that mysterious "Show
> > you're replying to.
>
> But the headers do include "In-reply-to:" and "References:".
original" option, which covers the computer screen with gobbledygook. Is
that an obvious choice for the drive-by? Is it even available to them?
When I did that, suddenly I had two tabs in my Edge window, both showing
what looked like the same thing, and the "Show only message" button, which
is near the top right and not in the Settings menu where you'd expect to
find something to counteract something in the Settings menu, doesn't do
anything at all. I had to close out and start up Edge again to get back
to GG.
Quinn C
Apr 1, 2018, 12:22:07 PM4/1/18
to
* pe...@pmoylan.org:
Really? It's about a hundred times faster than the desktop version, so
for a quick check of something that's gone from my newsreader, I
sometimes prefer using my phone. But that's me being read-only.
Thanks to snidely from me also. There's one last thing I'd like
confirmed: I guess if you're already logged into Google for some
reason, e.g. because you're using Gmail, that allows you to answer in
GG straight away. I never log into Google in a browser, so it asks me
to sign in to reply, which puts the question of where you're actually
posting to a bit more in the spotlight.
That is also the case on my Android phone. If I open the Gmail app, I'm
logged in without doing anything, but there's no hint of any connection
to Google Groups, and to use GG, I need a browser, where I'm not logged
in automagically.
--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106
for a quick check of something that's gone from my newsreader, I
sometimes prefer using my phone. But that's me being read-only.
Thanks to snidely from me also. There's one last thing I'd like
confirmed: I guess if you're already logged into Google for some
reason, e.g. because you're using Gmail, that allows you to answer in
GG straight away. I never log into Google in a browser, so it asks me
to sign in to reply, which puts the question of where you're actually
posting to a bit more in the spotlight.
That is also the case on my Android phone. If I open the Gmail app, I'm
logged in without doing anything, but there's no hint of any connection
to Google Groups, and to use GG, I need a browser, where I'm not logged
in automagically.
--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106
Quinn C
Apr 1, 2018, 12:43:24 PM4/1/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:00:20 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:21:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>>>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>>>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>>>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>>>>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>>>>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>>>>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>>>>> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>>>>
>>>> I don't see the connection.
>>
>> Plus: Good tools - half the work (old German saying.)
> Germany was on a Lufthansa plane -- but it was billed as from United.
>
>> Besides, the theory that some other system exists that "uses GG to send
>> a response" will be ignored until you post reproducible instructions.
>
> That is the POINT. The "user" receives NO "instructions."
One more time: Show me.
I chose to ignore that your answer suggests you didn't understand what
I was saying by using the same word "instructions" but putting it into
an entirely different context.
--
In the old days, the complaints about the passing of the
golden age were much more sophisticated.
-- James Hogg in alt.usage.english
> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:00:20 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:21:28 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:40:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 29/03/18 20:33, rp.east...@btopenworld.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since most gender specific terms evolved when there was only one
>>>>>>>>> gender involved, I can see no problem with extending male gender
>>>>>>>>> terms to everyone.
>>>>>>>> I presume, even though there's no mention of what he's replying to, that
>>>>>>>> this is a resurrection of an ancient thread. If so, we should take note
>>>>>>>> of the fact that this is a GG user but not a gmail user.
>>>>>>> If it were a GG user, the message being replied to would have been
>>>>>>> quoted (willy-nilly).
>>>>>> Thanks for the demonstration of what I call "PTD-level petty".
>>>>> "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."
>>>>
>>>> I don't see the connection.
>>
>>
>>>>> Does it not bother you that
>>>>> certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
>>>>
>>>> It depends who those people are. I'm not bothered by Mac users
>>>> criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
>>>> users, I'm somewhat contrite.
>>>>
>>>> Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
>>>> Gmail user. Those are facts.
>>>
>>> What "user" are you talking about? If the reviver be using GG, then they
>>> will come back to see responses to their message. If whatever search engine
>>> dredged up PY's original message happens to use GG to send a response, that
>>> does not make the person aware of GG, let alone a user of it.
>>
>>>>> Does it not bother you that
>>>>> certain people are continually complaining about the interface you use?
>>>>
>>>> It depends who those people are. I'm not bothered by Mac users
>>>> criticising me for using Windows, for example. If it comes from Linux
>>>> users, I'm somewhat contrite.
>>>>
>>>> Your above statement is wrong, anyway. The user is a GG user, and not a
>>>> Gmail user. Those are facts.
>>>
>>> What "user" are you talking about? If the reviver be using GG, then they
>>> will come back to see responses to their message. If whatever search engine
>>> dredged up PY's original message happens to use GG to send a response, that
>>> does not make the person aware of GG, let alone a user of it.
>>
>> I disagree - perhaps you could call them "not regular users of GG", but
>> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
>> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
>> ticket?
>
> In fact that sort of thing is announced on the ticket. My list trip to
>> they would be users of GG. Do you consider someone not a user of Air
>> Canada when they board an Air Canada machine with a United Airlines
>> ticket?
>
> Germany was on a Lufthansa plane -- but it was billed as from United.
>
>> Besides, the theory that some other system exists that "uses GG to send
>> a response" will be ignored until you post reproducible instructions.
>
> That is the POINT. The "user" receives NO "instructions."
One more time: Show me.
I chose to ignore that your answer suggests you didn't understand what
I was saying by using the same word "instructions" but putting it into
an entirely different context.
--
In the old days, the complaints about the passing of the
golden age were much more sophisticated.
-- James Hogg in alt.usage.english
Quinn C
Apr 1, 2018, 1:35:09 PM4/1/18
to
* bebe...@aol.com:
In late BBS and early WWW times, the acronym GABELN was sometimes
thrown around in German. The letters work the same in English: group,
area, board, echo, list, net. Just that the whole thing doesn't mean
anything in English, whereas it's the German word for "forks".
But that's long outdated. Ten years ago, Usenet conversations used to
be "in this forum" - "this is not a forum". To which I occasionally
answered "Of course it's a forum, look in your dictionary. There were
fora long before the Internet. Here is not a Web forum, though."
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
thrown around in German. The letters work the same in English: group,
area, board, echo, list, net. Just that the whole thing doesn't mean
anything in English, whereas it's the German word for "forks".
But that's long outdated. Ten years ago, Usenet conversations used to
be "in this forum" - "this is not a forum". To which I occasionally
answered "Of course it's a forum, look in your dictionary. There were
fora long before the Internet. Here is not a Web forum, though."
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
0 new messages