another Roland Garros slogan - huh?

[Rich Ulrich]

Amongst a plethora of brand names on the walls above a tennis
court at Roland Garros, a couple of slogans are written in English.

"The bank for a changing world" is dry and obvious. It also occurs
in French, below the bank's name. I have no question about it.

"Move the Lines, with Style" -- means nothing to me; no associations.
A few of the letters are written with extended lines. It's kind of by
itself. My question: What am I missing?

--
Rich Ulrich

[Tony Cooper]

It seems to be a motto/slogan of the brand Roland-Garros.

https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/article/roland-garros-style-licensees-collection-2022

Or, at least the "Move the lines" part. They add "With Fighting
Spirit", "With Elegance", and "With Committment" in other ads.

The "lines" seem to be the line in the tennis courts. Rather than
being painted on, like most clay courts, the lines are embedded in the
surface. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stade_Roland_Garros

and the section "Playing Surface".



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Bebercito]

It seems to be a calque of the French expression "Faire bouger les
lignes", which could actually be translated as "Stir things up" or
the like. I'm not sure those (probably French people) who coined
the slogan were aware it made no sense to English-speakers,
though.

>
> --
> Rich Ulrich

[occam]

I am 100% sure they [the advertisers] knew what they were doing. (See
Tony's remark about 'lines' and 'tennis'. In tennis, moving the lines
*is* breaking the rules, hence stirring things up. That is a *good*
thing in design. )

[Lewis]

In message <11ed9hlci1j9phgni...@4ax.com> Rich Ulrich <rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Move the Lines, with Style" -- means nothing to me; no associations.
> A few of the letters are written with extended lines. It's kind of by
> itself. My question: What am I missing?

It's the motto for Roland Garros.

Motto may not be the right word. Tagline, perhaps? Signature phrase?

<https://newsdirect.com/news/roland-garros-and-oppo-proudly-announce-their-extended-premium-partnership-for-2022-and-2023-tournaments-875866633>
Roland-Garros and OPPO share the same values and aim to constantly
reinvent themselves in order to offer an optimal user experience. OPPO
recently launched a new brand proposition, “Inspiration Ahead”, which
affirms this ambition and ties in with the Roland-Garros tournament’s
new signature, “Move the lines, with style”.

"Mission statement nonsense speak" in short.


--
Principal Powers: What a waste. I can't do anything more to help you. I'm not
Wonder Woman, you know.

[Bebercito]

The problem is that there is supposed to be a visual pun with
the slogan, where the lines are physically extended ("moved")
in the attendant logo. This pun of "stirring things up" and
"extending the lines" does work in French, but not in English
as "move the lines" is not an English idiom that means "stir
things up". Therefore, all English-speakers see in the ad, as
Rich said, is penmanship with letters that represent the
extended lines - big deal.

[spains...@gmail.com]

The Roland Garros label seems to have backfired, because the
hero of that name has been forgottenL

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)>

[Rich Ulrich]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com>

Thanks - That seems to cover it.

What I am left wondering, now, is: Why was Roland Garros,
who died at the end of WW I in 1918, celebrated with a stadium
that was built ten years later? Why not some other war hero?

The Wiki article gives enough details of his life -- splashy -- that
my guess is: he became an icon in France like Charles Lindbergh
became in America. Garros was a few years earlier.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Bebercito]

Roland Garros had been a member of a renowned French
sports association, "le Stade français". Long after his death,
when a friend of his became president of that association,
he required that the tennis stadium to be built to host the
Davis Cup be named after his late friend.

[Silvano]

Rich Ulrich hat am 01.06.2022 um 21:38 geschrieben:

> What I am left wondering, now, is: Why was Roland Garros,
> who died at the end of WW I in 1918, celebrated with a stadium
> that was built ten years later? Why not some other war hero?

The story is here, but only in the French Wikipedia.
<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros#Un_nom_li%C3%A9_au_tennis>

[Bebercito]

Yes and this particular passage confirms and elaborates on my previous
post:

---
Un nom lié au tennis
Le nom de Roland Garros est généralement associé au tennis. En effet, Roland Garros
avait adhéré à la section rugby du Stade français en 1906, avec le parrainage de son
condisciple d'HEC et athlète Émile Lesieur , et c’est ce dernier qui, en 1927, devenu
président de la prestigieuse association, exigea fermement que l’on donnât le nom
de son ami au stade de tennis parisien qu’il fallait construire pour accueillir les
épreuves de la coupe Davis ramenée en France par les « Mousquetaires ». Dixit
le compte-rendu : « je ne sortirai pas un sou de mes caisses si on ne donne pas
à ce stade le nom de mon ami Garros. »
---

[Peter Moylan]

On 03/06/22 03:52, Bebercito wrote:

[quoting Wikipedia]

> [...] et c’est ce dernier qui, en 1927, devenu président de la

> prestigieuse association, exigea fermement que l’on donnât le nom de

> son ami au stade de tennis [...]

It was just recently that someone asserted in this newsgroup that
today's French speakers never use the passé simple. Clearly, here is a
Wikipedia author who seems to be perfectly comfortable even with
l'imparfait du subjonctif.

From a little later in that paragraph: is "dixit" commonly used by
French speakers?

And elsewhere in the same paragraph: « La victoire appartient au plus
opiniâtre ». The translation into English loses something of its force
by using "tenacious".

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Silvano]

Peter Moylan hat am 06.06.2022 um 15:21 geschrieben:

> On 03/06/22 03:52, Bebercito wrote:
>
> [quoting Wikipedia]
>
>> [...] et c’est ce dernier qui, en 1927, devenu président de la
>> prestigieuse association, exigea fermement que l’on donnât le nom de
>> son ami au stade de tennis [...]
>
> It was just recently that someone asserted in this newsgroup that
> today's French speakers never use the passé simple. Clearly, here is a
> Wikipedia author who seems to be perfectly comfortable even with
> l'imparfait du subjonctif.

The quoted sentence is:
1) written, not spoken
2) about an historical event (in 1927)

Still skeptical? Ask the French NG corresponding to AUE, with the slight
amendment that today's French _speakers_ hardly ever use the passé simple.

[occam]

On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> The Roland Garros label seems to have backfired, because the
> hero of that name has been forgottenL

Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French
equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.

>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)>

[Bebercito]

Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:21:46 UTC+2, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 03/06/22 03:52, Bebercito wrote:
>
> [quoting Wikipedia]
>
> > [...] et c’est ce dernier qui, en 1927, devenu président de la
> > prestigieuse association, exigea fermement que l’on donnât le nom de
> > son ami au stade de tennis [...]
>
> It was just recently that someone asserted in this newsgroup that
> today's French speakers never use the passé simple. Clearly, here is a
> Wikipedia author who seems to be perfectly comfortable even with
> l'imparfait du subjonctif.

Currently an endangered species, though.

>
> From a little later in that paragraph: is "dixit" commonly used by
> French speakers?

About as often as "exit", as discussed in a recent ("frexit") topic.

[Bebercito]

Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
> On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > The Roland Garros label seems to have backfired, because the
> > hero of that name has been forgottenL
> Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French
> equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.

But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
actually was.

>
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)>

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2022-06-06 14:37:32 +0000, Bebercito said:

> Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
>> On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:>> >> > The Roland
>> Garros label seems to have backfired, because the> > hero of that name
>> has been forgottenL
>> Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French>
>> equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.
> But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
> actually was.

They have a better idea of who Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, another French
aviator, was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry

>
>>
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)>


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Bebercito]

Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 17:06:59 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2022-06-06 14:37:32 +0000, Bebercito said:
>
> > Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
> >> On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:>> >> > The Roland
> >> Garros label seems to have backfired, because the> > hero of that name
> >> has been forgottenL
> >> Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French>
> >> equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.
> > But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
> > actually was.
> They have a better idea of who Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, another French
> aviator, was.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry

Indeed, maybe because he was also a writer. When I was in primary
school, his /Le Petit Prince/ was even on the curriculum.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 9:38:30 AM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 17:06:59 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> > On 2022-06-06 14:37:32 +0000, Bebercito said:

[Roland Garros]

> > > But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
> > > actually was.

> > They have a better idea of who Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, another French
> > aviator, was.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry

> Indeed, maybe because he was also a writer. When I was in primary
> school, his /Le Petit Prince/ was even on the curriculum.

And when I was in middle school--if you took French you read /Le
Petit Prince/, and if you took Spanish you read /El Principito/.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Rich Ulrich]

Is this better?
"Victory belongs to the most obstinate."

I heard that variation in a TV commercial during the tournament.

It seems reasonable to me that they used the words that
Roland Garros himself "carved on his propellor" - my first image
of that was not a carving at the hub, but something that would
have ruined the aerodynamics.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

And if you were me your wife (then fiancée) gave you a copy of El
Principito with the full text of Le Petit Prince included. She was a
bit shocked that I hadn't been familiar with The Little Prince. We
didn't have it in any language when I was at school, but I think a
friend of mine at Oxford mentioned it once.

[occam]

On 06/06/2022 16:37, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
>> On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Roland Garros label seems to have backfired, because the
>>> hero of that name has been forgottenL
>> Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French
>> equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.
>
> But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
> actually was.

I am sure in 100 years' time people will not remember the name of John
Lennon, when they fly out of Liverpool Airport. The intellectually
curious will have to look it up.

>
>>
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Garros_(aviator)>

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

When we first moved to our present address we didn't know who Maurice
Barrès was. If we had known we might have preferred to live somewhere
else.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Mon, 6 Jun 2022 20:18:05 +0200: occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> scribeva:

>I am sure in 100 years' time people will not remember the name of John
>Lennon, when they fly out of Liverpool Airport. The intellectually
>curious will have to look it up.

Wrong. If Mozart is still known today, Lennon certainly will.

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/06/22 02:45, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 23:21:39 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> And elsewhere in the same paragraph: « La victoire appartient au
>> plus opiniâtre ». The translation into English loses something of
>> its force by using "tenacious".
>
> Is this better? "Victory belongs to the most obstinate."

Yes, that's a better translation. I would have picked "stubborn", but
that means much the same as "obstinate".

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/06/22 01:06, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-06-06 14:37:32 +0000, Bebercito said:
>
>> Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
>>> On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:>> >> > The Roland
>>> Garros label seems to have backfired, because the> > hero of
>>> that name has been forgottenL Forgotten? By whom? Not by the
>>> French. Not if they named the French> equivalent of the Wimbledon
>>> tennis tournament after him.
>> But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
>> actually was.
>
> They have a better idea of who Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, another
> French aviator, was.

But what is Saint-Exupéry known for? I've read three of his books, but
most people seem to know only about the one aimed at children.

[Peter Moylan]

Author of /Das Kapital/, wasn't he? Oh, wait, that was Harpo.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Difficult question. Worldwide, I think that Mozart, centuries after his death,
is better known now than Lennon is, only decades after his death.

Baby boomers like me were deeply affected by the changes in popular music
that Lennon and the Beatles were part of. But I'm not convinced that in a few more
centuries, Lennon will be as well known as Mozart is now.

bill

[occam]

Do you think the estate agent would have accepted a lesser offer, had
you raised the issue?

[Hibou]

Le 01/06/2022 à 07:09, occam a écrit :
>
> I am 100% sure they [the advertisers] knew what they were doing. (See
> Tony's remark about 'lines' and 'tennis'. In tennis, moving the lines
> *is* breaking the rules, hence stirring things up. That is a *good*
> thing in design. )

It wouldn't do as a slogan for the SNCF.

[occam]

Why? Does the SNCF play tennis? Their rail lines are straight and
immovable by forethought rather than creativity.

[Hibou]

« Faire bouger les lignes » is a general expression, not restricted to
tennis.

I meant that we like to think of railway lines as fixed, solid, reliable
things, though in fact they can move down quite a bit under a train's
weight.

All of which reminds me of Gromit laying track as he went....

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/06/22 18:38, Hibou wrote:
>
> I meant that we like to think of railway lines as fixed, solid,
> reliable things, though in fact they can move down quite a bit under
> a train's weight.

They can also buckle in very hot weather. The gaps between rails are
supposed to allow for this, but those gaps were, in most cases, designed
before global warming became a topic of conversation.

(The temperature rise in Australia has been significantly greater than
the global average rise, which makes it even more shocking that we had a
government of climate change deniers for the entire past decade. Rupert
has a lot to answer for.)

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 07/06/22 18:38, Hibou wrote:
> >
> > I meant that we like to think of railway lines as fixed, solid,
> > reliable things, though in fact they can move down quite a bit under
> > a train's weight.
>
> They can also buckle in very hot weather. The gaps between rails are
> supposed to allow for this, but those gaps were, in most cases, designed
> before global warming became a topic of conversation.

Is Australia backward, or have you failed to keep up?
In Europe rails are welded, no gaps. (except near stations)
Thermal forces are kept in check by using heavy concrete blocks
connected by steel rods as sleepers.
(laid in broken stone, not gravel)
In winter the rails are heated before welding,
to make sure that the rails are tension-free
at about the right temperature.
High speed trains such as the French TGV
would not be possible otherwise,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/06/22 21:02, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 07/06/22 18:38, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> I meant that we like to think of railway lines as fixed, solid,
>>> reliable things, though in fact they can move down quite a bit under
>>> a train's weight.
>>
>> They can also buckle in very hot weather. The gaps between rails are
>> supposed to allow for this, but those gaps were, in most cases, designed
>> before global warming became a topic of conversation.
>
> Is Australia backward, or have you failed to keep up?
> In Europe rails are welded, no gaps. (except near stations)
> Thermal forces are kept in check by using heavy concrete blocks
> connected by steel rods as sleepers.
> (laid in broken stone, not gravel)
> In winter the rails are heated before welding,
> to make sure that the rails are tension-free
> at about the right temperature.
> High speed trains such as the French TGV
> would not be possible otherwise,

A little googling suggests that this approach is used for some rail
lines in Australia. Apparently the rails are heated during construction
to ensure that they will always be under tension.

There have been suggestions that this is short-sighted. One source
suggests that the pre-heating is only to 40 degrees (Celsius). That
strikes me as very low. For the rail line from Alice Springs to Darwin
(1420 km) the expected temperature range is -10 to +65 degrees. Concrete
sleepers can limit the buckling, but it is an observed fact that rail
lines still do buckle.

[J. J. Lodder]

Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:

> Le lundi 6 juin 2022 à 15:41:10 UTC+2, occam a écrit :
> > On 01/06/2022 19:32, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The Roland Garros label seems to have backfired, because the
> > > hero of that name has been forgottenL
> > Forgotten? By whom? Not by the French. Not if they named the French
> > equivalent of the Wimbledon tennis tournament after him.
>
> But despite the fuss around the tournament, few French know who he
> actually was.

Have Americans also forgotten Eddie Rickenbacker?
(in full Capt. Eddie V. Rickenbacker)

Jan

[Ruud Harmsen]

Mon, 6 Jun 2022 22:50:22 -0700 (PDT): "bil...@shaw.ca"
<bil...@shaw.ca> scribeva:

I am. All the classics from that style of music. Queen, Stairway to
Heaven, Satisfaction, etc. etc. They will still be known, and still be
played, on whatever will have replaced radio, and Spotify and there
likes, by then.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com