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BrE pronounciation of "libido"
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Gus
Feb 20, 2014, 5:25:18 PM2/20/14
to
I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
how it's pronounced in BrE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
how it's pronounced in BrE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
Robert Bannister
Feb 20, 2014, 6:55:12 PM2/20/14
to
without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some
people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but quite
frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth commenting
on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Gus
Feb 20, 2014, 7:53:08 PM2/20/14
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
A mulatto
An albino
A mosquito
My libido
The "hello" part is:
Hello, hello, hello, how low? [x3]
Hello, hello, hello!
Cobain didn't even live long enough to see Windows 95... or the whole
Napster thing... There was a short NPR story recently about him being a
janitor and making people mix tapes (on cassettes).
http://www.npr.org/2014/01/31/269489380/damien-jurado-mixtape-master
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
> On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this
>> is
>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>
>
> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some
> people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but
> quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth
> commenting on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a
> poem.
> --
Part of the the lyrics are:
>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this
>> is
>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>
>
> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some
> people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but
> quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth
> commenting on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a
> poem.
> --
A mulatto
An albino
A mosquito
My libido
The "hello" part is:
Hello, hello, hello, how low? [x3]
Hello, hello, hello!
Cobain didn't even live long enough to see Windows 95... or the whole
Napster thing... There was a short NPR story recently about him being a
janitor and making people mix tapes (on cassettes).
http://www.npr.org/2014/01/31/269489380/damien-jurado-mixtape-master
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 2:47:31 AM2/21/14
to
DC
--
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 2:55:00 AM2/21/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:nwDNu.7394$N86...@fx27.am4...
"repression"?
Cobain said the song [lithium] is about a man who, after the death of
his girlfriend, turns to religion "as a last resort to keep himself
alive. To keep him from suicide".[11] While Cobain said the narrative of
"Lithium" was fictional, he said, "I did infuse some of my personal
experiences, like breaking up with girlfriends and having bad
relationships".[12] Cobain acknowledged that the song was possibly
inspired in part by the time he spent living with his friend Jesse Reed
and his born-again Christian parents. He explained to Azerrad, "I've
always felt that some people should have religion in their lives [. . .]
That's fine. If it's going to save someone, it's okay. And the person in
['Lithium'] needed it."
There is a lot of self-loathing going on in this song, as Kurt Cobain
sings, "I'm so ugly" and takes the voice of a man on the brink of
killing himself - dysfunctional, random, and all of that. Cobain made it
clear that most of the time, he wasn't singing about himself in his
songs, but was pulling from what he saw in other people. This depressive
theme crept into some of the songs on their In Utero album as well,
which at one point was going to be called "I Hate Myself And I Want To
Die." At live shows, Cobain would sometimes put this in perspective,
asking the audience, "Hey everybody, why so glum?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcJEvMcnEg
news:nwDNu.7394$N86...@fx27.am4...
Cobain said the song [lithium] is about a man who, after the death of
his girlfriend, turns to religion "as a last resort to keep himself
alive. To keep him from suicide".[11] While Cobain said the narrative of
"Lithium" was fictional, he said, "I did infuse some of my personal
experiences, like breaking up with girlfriends and having bad
relationships".[12] Cobain acknowledged that the song was possibly
inspired in part by the time he spent living with his friend Jesse Reed
and his born-again Christian parents. He explained to Azerrad, "I've
always felt that some people should have religion in their lives [. . .]
That's fine. If it's going to save someone, it's okay. And the person in
['Lithium'] needed it."
There is a lot of self-loathing going on in this song, as Kurt Cobain
sings, "I'm so ugly" and takes the voice of a man on the brink of
killing himself - dysfunctional, random, and all of that. Cobain made it
clear that most of the time, he wasn't singing about himself in his
songs, but was pulling from what he saw in other people. This depressive
theme crept into some of the songs on their In Utero album as well,
which at one point was going to be called "I Hate Myself And I Want To
Die." At live shows, Cobain would sometimes put this in perspective,
asking the audience, "Hey everybody, why so glum?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcJEvMcnEg
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 3:09:50 AM2/21/14
to
I know Nevermind backwards (and didn't need to replay that clip to
remember the pronunciation) but I don't think I've ever even heard In
Utero.
So, back to our sheep: how do you pronounce 'libido'?
DC [1] I got 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' by the Byrds for the same price
instead. Curious one...
--
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 3:47:56 AM2/21/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:iRDNu.6815$VM1....@fx30.am4...
> I nearly bought In Utero on CD for 3.99[1] yesterday; like many people
> I know Nevermind backwards (and didn't need to replay that clip to
> remember the pronunciation) but I don't think I've ever even heard In
> Utero.
>
> So, back to our sheep: how do you pronounce 'libido'?
>
> DC [1] I got 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' by the Byrds for the same price
> instead. Curious one...
I wonder... if you go back, what will happen?
> I know Nevermind backwards (and didn't need to replay that clip to
> remember the pronunciation) but I don't think I've ever even heard In
> Utero.
>
> So, back to our sheep: how do you pronounce 'libido'?
>
> DC [1] I got 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' by the Byrds for the same price
> instead. Curious one...
My sister said if she couldn't decide... she would leave, if she came
back and the item was still there-- then it was meant for her...
Personally, I do not think that is a good way to make decisions.
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 4:02:15 AM2/21/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>
"libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception to the
rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted into English
have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB - i - doh), but I
think that's an error.
--
Guy Barry
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>
>On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>
>
>What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear without
>hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some people sang
>"Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but quite frankly the
>way words are pronounced in songs is not worth commenting on. Words can be
>pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
I couldn't hear anything either, but for what it's worth I pronounce
>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>
>
>What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear without
>hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some people sang
>"Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but quite frankly the
>way words are pronounced in songs is not worth commenting on. Words can be
>pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
"libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception to the
rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted into English
have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB - i - doh), but I
think that's an error.
--
Guy Barry
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 4:18:56 AM2/21/14
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mCENu.16920$5D2....@fx10.am4...
In the vid, he pronounces it "la buy doe". Hope that makes sense. I'm
not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as
best I could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la
bee doe".
news:mCENu.16920$5D2....@fx10.am4...
not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as
best I could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la
bee doe".
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 4:39:49 AM2/21/14
to
it was the UOGB rather than the original. Not their finest hour...
You may well not be able to hear this if you're a native AmE speaker,
but to me (a Brit) the lead singer sounds very much like a BrE speaker
'doing' what he perceives to be an American accent. And yes, he does
pronounce 'libido' in the non-standard way you've described. This
brings us to the very real possibility that this is how he *thinks*
it's pronounced in the US, or more likely that it's a gag based round
the popular Br meme of how Americans sometimes pronounce words in ways
that sound odd - maybe overly formal? - to us.
Wild.
DC
--
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 4:48:34 AM2/21/14
to
"Gus" wrote in message news:le75li$7ri$1...@news.albasani.net...
in the middle syllable:
http://www.forvo.com/word/libido/
As I said earlier, it does seem to be an exception to the way such Latin
vowels are usually treated in English - think of the conventional
pronunciation of "Dido" or "Fido". Even "lido" (from Italian) has the "eye"
vowel in my speech, though I've heard it both ways.
--
Guy Barry
>> I couldn't hear anything either, but for what it's worth I pronounce
>> "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception to
>> the rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted into
>> English have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB - i -
>> doh), but I think that's an error.
>
>> "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception to
>> the rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted into
>> English have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB - i -
>> doh), but I think that's an error.
>
>In the vid, he pronounces it "la buy doe". Hope that makes sense. I'm
>not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as best I
>could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la bee doe".
Well, on Forvo both the American and the British speaker have the same vowel
>not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as best I
>could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la bee doe".
in the middle syllable:
http://www.forvo.com/word/libido/
As I said earlier, it does seem to be an exception to the way such Latin
vowels are usually treated in English - think of the conventional
pronunciation of "Dido" or "Fido". Even "lido" (from Italian) has the "eye"
vowel in my speech, though I've heard it both ways.
--
Guy Barry
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Feb 21, 2014, 5:30:25 AM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:47:31 GMT, "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com>
wrote:
Yes. There are two ways in BrE as given here:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/libido?q=libido
The "bi" is either "bee" or "buy". I'm most familiar with, and use, the
"bee" version.
The AmE entry gives only the "buy" version:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/libido
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/libido?q=libido
The "bi" is either "bee" or "buy". I'm most familiar with, and use, the
"bee" version.
The AmE entry gives only the "buy" version:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/libido
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 5:32:54 AM2/21/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:F9FNu.17595$Yq2....@fx09.am4...
> Gus wrote:
>
>> "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:iRDNu.6815$VM1....@fx30.am4...
>> > I nearly bought In Utero on CD for 3.99[1] yesterday; like many
>> > people I know Nevermind backwards (and didn't need to replay that
>> > clip to remember the pronunciation) but I don't think I've ever
>> > even heard In Utero.
>> >
>> > So, back to our sheep: how do you pronounce 'libido'?
>> >
>> > DC [1] I got 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' by the Byrds for the same
>> > price instead. Curious one...
>>
>> I wonder... if you go back, what will happen?
>>
>> My sister said if she couldn't decide... she would leave, if she
>> came back and the item was still there-- then it was meant for her...
>> Personally, I do not think that is a good way to make decisions.
>
>
> OK, now I've watched the video it gets complicated - I hadn't realised
> it was the UOGB rather than the original. Not their finest hour...
I find it very funny, yet poignant. Cobain being dead and all... I
>
>> "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:iRDNu.6815$VM1....@fx30.am4...
>> > I nearly bought In Utero on CD for 3.99[1] yesterday; like many
>> > people I know Nevermind backwards (and didn't need to replay that
>> > clip to remember the pronunciation) but I don't think I've ever
>> > even heard In Utero.
>> >
>> > So, back to our sheep: how do you pronounce 'libido'?
>> >
>> > DC [1] I got 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' by the Byrds for the same
>> > price instead. Curious one...
>>
>> I wonder... if you go back, what will happen?
>>
>> My sister said if she couldn't decide... she would leave, if she
>> came back and the item was still there-- then it was meant for her...
>> Personally, I do not think that is a good way to make decisions.
>
>
> OK, now I've watched the video it gets complicated - I hadn't realised
> it was the UOGB rather than the original. Not their finest hour...
like how the lead gets really into it. And the guy with the long hair
throws his hair around, I assume--ironically... What would you say is
UOGB's finest hour?
> You may well not be able to hear this if you're a native AmE speaker,
> but to me (a Brit) the lead singer sounds very much like a BrE speaker
> 'doing' what he perceives to be an American accent. And yes, he does
> pronounce 'libido' in the non-standard way you've described. This
> brings us to the very real possibility that this is how he *thinks*
> it's pronounced in the US, or more likely that it's a gag based round
> the popular Br meme of how Americans sometimes pronounce words in ways
> that sound odd - maybe overly formal? - to us.
>
> Wild.
>
> DC
BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 5:38:49 AM2/21/14
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:ddaeg9hq2hidrpl8v...@4ax.com...
>The AmE entry gives only the "buy" version:
>http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/libido
No, it gives the "bee" version.
--
Guy Barry
news:ddaeg9hq2hidrpl8v...@4ax.com...
>The AmE entry gives only the "buy" version:
>http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/libido
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 5:39:57 AM2/21/14
to
"Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
>So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
I don't have cause to use it very often.
--
Guy Barry
>So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
--
Guy Barry
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 5:43:51 AM2/21/14
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Y1GNu.18511$cK2....@fx11.am4...
I feel you. (not literally.) btw, I hate the expression "I feel you".
They said it like a thousand times on The Wire. I cringed every time.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Feb 21, 2014, 5:46:26 AM2/21/14
to
reason.
Iskandar Baharuddin
Feb 21, 2014, 5:56:20 AM2/21/14
to
How do you pronounce "liposuction"?
"leep" or "lip" or "lyep"?
--
Salaam, Izzy
Ciri sa-bumi, cara sa-desa. (Sundanese proverb)
"People are pretty much the same around the world, but the way they do
things depends on where they come from."
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 6:09:35 AM2/21/14
to
friends who've seen them live say they're great. I especially like the
way they do songs you wouldn't expect - there's links to some great
examples on that Youtube page which I'll have to watch through some
time soon. Watching again they do do SMLTS very well... maybe it's just
that I feel it's too dark and serious a song for a lighthearted
treatment.
>
>
> > You may well not be able to hear this if you're a native AmE
> > speaker, but to me (a Brit) the lead singer sounds very much like a
> > BrE speaker 'doing' what he perceives to be an American accent. And
> > yes, he does pronounce 'libido' in the non-standard way you've
> > described. This brings us to the very real possibility that this is
> > gag based round the popular Br meme of how Americans sometimes
> > pronounce words in ways that sound odd - maybe overly formal? - to
> > us.
> >
> > Wild.
> >
> > DC
>
> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
Just the same way Kurt Cobain did.
> > pronounce words in ways that sound odd - maybe overly formal? - to
> > us.
> >
> > Wild.
> >
> > DC
>
> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
DC
--
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 6:39:42 AM2/21/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:PtGNu.7644$Vh4....@fx13.am4...
> Good question. Without being a serious fan, I do really like them -
> friends who've seen them live say they're great. I especially like the
> way they do songs you wouldn't expect - there's links to some great
> examples on that Youtube page which I'll have to watch through some
> time soon. Watching again they do do SMLTS very well... maybe it's
> just
> that I feel it's too dark and serious a song for a lighthearted
> treatment.
There are two kinds of people in this world...
> friends who've seen them live say they're great. I especially like the
> way they do songs you wouldn't expect - there's links to some great
> examples on that Youtube page which I'll have to watch through some
> time soon. Watching again they do do SMLTS very well... maybe it's
> just
> that I feel it's too dark and serious a song for a lighthearted
> treatment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLgJ7pk0X-s
Peter Percival
Feb 21, 2014, 7:02:50 AM2/21/14
to
Robert Bannister wrote:
> on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
Well-known example:
> on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
The city's glamour can never spoil
the dreams of a boy and goil
we'll turn Manhattan
into an isle of joy!
('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
--
Madam Life's a piece in bloom,
Death goes dogging everywhere:
She's the tenant of the room,
He's the ruffian on the stair.
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 8:47:27 AM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
> Robert Bannister wrote:
> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> Well-known example:
>
> The city's glamour can never spoil
> the dreams of a boy and goil
> we'll turn Manhattan
> into an isle of joy!
>
> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
? How else would you pronounce it?
> Robert Bannister wrote:
> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> Well-known example:
>
> The city's glamour can never spoil
> the dreams of a boy and goil
> we'll turn Manhattan
> into an isle of joy!
>
> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
"I'll take Manhattan, / The Bronx and Staten / Island, too."
(The song also includes "And tell me what street / Compares with
Mott Street / In July.")
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 8:59:29 AM2/21/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
--
Guy Barry
news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
>
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>>
>> Well-known example:
>>
>> The city's glamour can never spoil
>> the dreams of a boy and goil
>> we'll turn Manhattan
>> into an isle of joy!
>>
>> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>
>? How else would you pronounce it?
I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>>
>> Well-known example:
>>
>> The city's glamour can never spoil
>> the dreams of a boy and goil
>> we'll turn Manhattan
>> into an isle of joy!
>>
>> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>
>? How else would you pronounce it?
--
Guy Barry
Christian Weisgerber
Feb 21, 2014, 8:17:59 AM2/21/14
to
a British dictionary:
Merriam-Webster.com:
l@'bi:doU (1)
'lIb@,doU (2)
AHDictionary.com:
lI'bido (1)
lI'baIdo (3)
dictionay.Cambridge.org, British English:
lI'bi:d@U (1)
US: lI'bi:doU (1)
Oxforddictionaries.com, British & World English:
lI'bi:d@U (1)
lI'bVId@U (3)
Notation differences aside, that's a total of three different
pronunciations there.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Bertel Lund Hansen
Feb 21, 2014, 10:10:31 AM2/21/14
to
Robert Bannister skrev:
> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
> worth commenting on.
I'll do it anyway.
> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
Yes, and the song "Me and Bobby McGee" has lead many Danes to
believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
--
Bertel, Denmark
> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
> worth commenting on.
> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Feb 21, 2014, 10:17:59 AM2/21/14
to
Gus skrev:
> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
English is my second language, but since nobody else has answered
this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
in English):
'li bi doe
with i's like in "history".
--
Bertel, Denmark
> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
in English):
'li bi doe
with i's like in "history".
--
Bertel, Denmark
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 10:17:57 AM2/21/14
to
"Bertel Lund Hansen" wrote in message
news:53076bef$0$296$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
Surely Louis Armstrong established that pronunciation a long time before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jU8IQK5b0
--
Guy Barry
news:53076bef$0$296$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jU8IQK5b0
--
Guy Barry
Tony Cooper
Feb 21, 2014, 10:24:22 AM2/21/14
to
pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
This is the case with other US cities. While I lived in Chicago for a
number of years, I don't pronounce "Chicago" like a native Chicago
south-sider. The city, and state, of New York is pronounced
differently by some native New Yorkers than it is by a non-native.
Bostonians have a way of saying "Boston" that is different from
non-natives.
I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy9Hmp2n5Y
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 10:27:24 AM2/21/14
to
"Bertel Lund Hansen" wrote in message
news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
doh), although I have heard the pronunciation you suggest. But it doesn't
come up an awful lot in conversation.
--
Guy Barry
James Hogg
Feb 21, 2014, 10:30:10 AM2/21/14
to
that final-stressed variant as "the older pronunciation" which is not
uncommon and is regular in New Orleans molasses.
--
James
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 10:39:32 AM2/21/14
to
"Tony Cooper" wrote in message
news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
>I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
>the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy9Hmp2n5Y
No. Nor does anyone else.
--
Guy Barry
news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
>I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
>the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy9Hmp2n5Y
--
Guy Barry
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 10:44:27 AM2/21/14
to
an eye-dialect rendering of "Manhattan"?
"Goil" is standard eye-dialect for "Brooklynese" pronunciation
of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 10:49:45 AM2/21/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:aa322d3c-9fc3-4ab4...@googlegroups.com...
>
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 8:59:29 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
>> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
>> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> >> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>> >> Well-known example:
>> >> The city's glamour can never spoil
>> >> the dreams of a boy and goil
>> >> we'll turn Manhattan
>> >> into an isle of joy!
>> >> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>> >? How else would you pronounce it?
>>
>> I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
>
>Oh is _that_ what you were noticing! Then why did you provide
>an eye-dialect rendering of "Manhattan"?
I didn't. That was Peter Percival (and presumably a typo).
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 8:59:29 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
>> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
>> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> >> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>> >> Well-known example:
>> >> The city's glamour can never spoil
>> >> the dreams of a boy and goil
>> >> we'll turn Manhattan
>> >> into an isle of joy!
>> >> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>> >? How else would you pronounce it?
>>
>> I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
>
>Oh is _that_ what you were noticing! Then why did you provide
>an eye-dialect rendering of "Manhattan"?
>"Goil" is standard eye-dialect for "Brooklynese" pronunciation
>of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
>rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
words?
--
Guy Barry
Don Phillipson
Feb 21, 2014, 11:35:32 AM2/21/14
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NhFNu.7153$s%3.6...@fx32.am4...
> http://www.forvo.com/word/libido/
>
> As I said earlier, it does seem to be an exception to the way such Latin
> vowels are usually treated in English - think of the conventional
> pronunciation of "Dido" or "Fido". Even "lido" (from Italian) has the
> "eye" vowel in my speech, though I've heard it both ways.
a Latin word that became an English word only via German (although
"libidinous" occurs in Middle English, the OED tells us.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Mack A. Damia
Feb 21, 2014, 11:47:22 AM2/21/14
to
correct pronunciation? There are a lot of those examples among native
speakers. Old habits die hard even when you know something is wrong.
My father always pronounced Pantagenets as Planta genets. I never
questioned him but never heard it pronounced this way anywhere else.
--
charles
Feb 21, 2014, 12:26:09 PM2/21/14
to
In article <ad0fg9pap9pan0t5g...@4ax.com>, Mack A. Damia
but he had logic behind it. The name was taken from Planta Genista. (Broom)
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Mack A. Damia
Feb 21, 2014, 12:49:49 PM2/21/14
to
--
musika
Feb 21, 2014, 12:54:30 PM2/21/14
to
--
Ray
UK
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 1:11:53 PM2/21/14
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>...Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
You have found the elusive rhyme for orange?
news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>...Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
You have found the elusive rhyme for orange?
Mack A. Damia
Feb 21, 2014, 1:15:39 PM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:54:30 +0000, musika <mUs...@NOSPAMexcite.com>
wrote:
Interesting! I don't know if I ever knew that the royal family was
named after the broom shrub, but I have too many senior moments these
days.
--
wrote:
named after the broom shrub, but I have too many senior moments these
days.
--
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 1:19:41 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:aa322d3c-9fc3-4ab4...@googlegroups.com...
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 8:59:29 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> >> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> >> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
> >> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
> >> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
[I don't think he did]
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:aa322d3c-9fc3-4ab4...@googlegroups.com...
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 8:59:29 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> >> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> >> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
> >> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
> >> >> Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> >> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
> >> >> Well-known example:
> >> >> The city's glamour can never spoil
> >> >> the dreams of a boy and goil
> >> >> we'll turn Manhattan
> >> >> into an isle of joy!
> >> >> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>
> >> >? How else would you pronounce it?
> >> I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
> >Oh is _that_ what you were noticing! Then why did you provide
> >an eye-dialect rendering of "Manhattan"?
>
> I didn't. That was Peter Percival (and presumably a typo).
>
> >"Goil" is standard eye-dialect for "Brooklynese" pronunciation
> >of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
> >rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
>
> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> words?
of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
would be something like [spOjl].
Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
I've ever heard it.
[checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 1:21:02 PM2/21/14
to
"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
>
> This is the case with other US cities.
I refuse to call the city I live in "Lou-ah-vull". It is named after
King Louis, not King Louah. In Colorado, they have a "Louisville" they
pronounce "Lou-iz-vil" I think that is going too far to the other
extreme. I say "Louie-vil" like the good Northerner I was raised as.
The French do say "Louie" for "Louis" right? "Lou-eee".
Also, many people say "St. Louis" wrong.
news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
>
> This is the case with other US cities.
King Louis, not King Louah. In Colorado, they have a "Louisville" they
pronounce "Lou-iz-vil" I think that is going too far to the other
extreme. I say "Louie-vil" like the good Northerner I was raised as.
The French do say "Louie" for "Louis" right? "Lou-eee".
Also, many people say "St. Louis" wrong.
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 1:23:40 PM2/21/14
to
"Bertel Lund Hansen" <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
Was that a typo? Don't you mean "istory"? I thought there was a
consensus forming about not pronouncing "h" at the beginning of words
any more. The influence of the burgeoning Ispanic population.
news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
consensus forming about not pronouncing "h" at the beginning of words
any more. The influence of the burgeoning Ispanic population.
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 1:46:33 PM2/21/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:1f13ab1d-ed86-4d94...@googlegroups.com...
>
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
>> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
>> other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
>> words?
>
>I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
>of phonetic notation;
Given our previous exchanges both here and on sci.lang, I'm extremely
>On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
>> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
>> other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
>> words?
>
>I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
>of phonetic notation;
surprised you should think that.
><girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
>would be something like [spOjl].
to that than it is to a notional "goil". I wonder why Lorenz Hart
considered them as rhymes?
>
>Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
>I've ever heard it.
I'd say it was one of the best-known lines in the song.
>Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
>I've ever heard it.
--
Guy Barry
Jerry Friedman
Feb 21, 2014, 1:51:00 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19:41 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
...
> On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> > >"Goil" is standard eye-dialect for "Brooklynese" pronunciation
> > >of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
> > >rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
>
> > I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> > other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> > words?
>
> I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
> of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
> would be something like [spOjl].
>
> Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
> I've ever heard it.
>
> [checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
>
> Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
>
> I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
> was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
> recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
> mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
> shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
> conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
> as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
was from New York, says Wikipedia, but I'm no judge of how authentic
her Brooklynese or anyone else's is.
--
Jerry Friedman
Guy Barry
Feb 21, 2014, 1:51:15 PM2/21/14
to
"Gus" wrote in message news:le85jn$cp2$1...@news.albasani.net...
in the Cockney dialect (spoken in London) because of that dialect's feature
of "h"-dropping. I fear the rest may be due to your imagination.
--
Guy Barry
>
>"Bertel Lund Hansen" <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
>news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>"Bertel Lund Hansen" <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
>news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>> 'li bi doe
>> with i's like in "history".
>
>Was that a typo? Don't you mean "istory"? I thought there was a consensus
>forming about not pronouncing "h" at the beginning of words any more. The
>influence of the burgeoning Ispanic population.
What? I made a comment about the interjection "hoy" becoming "oy" or "oi"
>> with i's like in "history".
>
>Was that a typo? Don't you mean "istory"? I thought there was a consensus
>forming about not pronouncing "h" at the beginning of words any more. The
>influence of the burgeoning Ispanic population.
in the Cockney dialect (spoken in London) because of that dialect's feature
of "h"-dropping. I fear the rest may be due to your imagination.
--
Guy Barry
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 2:27:02 PM2/21/14
to
Gus wrote:
> "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
> news:PtGNu.7644$Vh4....@fx13.am4...
> > Good question. Without being a serious fan, I do really like them -
> > friends who've seen them live say they're great. I especially like
> > the way they do songs you wouldn't expect - there's links to some
> > great examples on that Youtube page which I'll have to watch
> > through some time soon. Watching again they do do SMLTS very
> > well... maybe it's just that I feel it's too dark and serious a
> > song for a lighthearted treatment.
>
> There are two kinds of people in this world...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLgJ7pk0X-s
"The plaintive cry of a Mexican Girl": "Oright moi lover?"
Great stuff, I may have to buy the DVD, but isn't that three kinds of
people?
DC
--
> "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
> news:PtGNu.7644$Vh4....@fx13.am4...
> > Good question. Without being a serious fan, I do really like them -
> > friends who've seen them live say they're great. I especially like
> > the way they do songs you wouldn't expect - there's links to some
> > great examples on that Youtube page which I'll have to watch
> > through some time soon. Watching again they do do SMLTS very
> > well... maybe it's just that I feel it's too dark and serious a
> > song for a lighthearted treatment.
>
> There are two kinds of people in this world...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLgJ7pk0X-s
"The plaintive cry of a Mexican Girl": "Oright moi lover?"
Great stuff, I may have to buy the DVD, but isn't that three kinds of
people?
DC
--
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 2:27:32 PM2/21/14
to
Guy Barry wrote:
> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
That's so sad...
DC
--
> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
> > So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal
> > conversation-- BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>
> I don't have cause to use it very often.
> > conversation-- BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>
That's so sad...
DC
--
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 2:28:38 PM2/21/14
to
Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > English is my second language, but since nobody else has answered
> > > this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
> > > in English):
> > >
> >> 'li bi doe
> >> with i's like in "history".
> >
> > I said some time ago that I pronounce "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li -
> > BEE - doh), although I have heard the pronunciation you suggest.
> > But it doesn't come up an awful lot in conversation.
>
> But isn't this just somebody who incorrectly thinks that it is the
> correct pronunciation? There are a lot of those examples among native
> speakers. Old habits die hard even when you know something is wrong.
I'm still not sure how to say 'pace'...
> > > English is my second language, but since nobody else has answered
> > > this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
> > > in English):
> > >
> >> 'li bi doe
> >> with i's like in "history".
> >
> > I said some time ago that I pronounce "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li -
> > BEE - doh), although I have heard the pronunciation you suggest.
> > But it doesn't come up an awful lot in conversation.
>
> But isn't this just somebody who incorrectly thinks that it is the
> correct pronunciation? There are a lot of those examples among native
> speakers. Old habits die hard even when you know something is wrong.
DC
--
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 2:31:08 PM2/21/14
to
uses 'beware wet floor' bollards marked in Spanish to be ready just in
case they ever are.
DC
--
John Varela
Feb 21, 2014, 2:38:50 PM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:30:10 UTC, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:
I don't know what "New Orleans molasses" is supposed to mean, but
stress on that third syllable is *only* found in song. I say this as
a New Orleans fourth-generation native who still visits from time to
time.
--
John Varela
wrote:
stress on that third syllable is *only* found in song. I say this as
a New Orleans fourth-generation native who still visits from time to
time.
--
John Varela
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 2:49:06 PM2/21/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:0QNNu.21146$Yq2....@fx09.am4...
Charlie Brooker misinformed me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9v_oUOq5u4
John Varela
Feb 21, 2014, 3:32:55 PM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:24:22 UTC, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:10:31 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
> <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
> >Robert Bannister skrev:
> >
> >> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
> >> worth commenting on.
> >
> >I'll do it anyway.
> >
> >> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
> >
> >Yes, and the song "Me and Bobby McGee" has lead many Danes to
> >believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
>
> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
There are a half-dozen or more ways that natives pronounce New
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:10:31 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
> <kanon...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
> >Robert Bannister skrev:
> >
> >> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
> >> worth commenting on.
> >
> >I'll do it anyway.
> >
> >> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
> >
> >Yes, and the song "Me and Bobby McGee" has lead many Danes to
> >believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
>
> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
Orleans. None of them stresses the third syllable, and AFAIK all of
them do pronounce the word "New" (as opposed to that "N'Awlins"
pronunciation that's presented at French Quarter tourist traps).
Common variants include "noo WAW-lns", "noo WAWL-y@ns", "noo
AW-lns", "noo AWL-y@ns", and the way I learned it in an Uptown,
University, or Carrollton accent (depending on who is identifying
accents) was "noo OAR-lee-@ns". (That first syllable isn't really
"OAR" but that's the closest I can represent it.)
Just to confuse things further, a native New Orleanian is pronounced
"noo or-LEE-nee-@n", and New Orleans is coextensive with its parish
(the name for a county in Louisiana), "or-LEENS" Parish. When Johnny
Cash sang about "Orleans Parish Prison" he got it pretty much right.
> This is the case with other US cities. While I lived in Chicago for a
> number of years, I don't pronounce "Chicago" like a native Chicago
> south-sider. The city, and state, of New York is pronounced
> differently by some native New Yorkers than it is by a non-native.
> Bostonians have a way of saying "Boston" that is different from
> non-natives.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBqaXwamF0o
> I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
> the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy9Hmp2n5Y
--
charles
Feb 21, 2014, 3:35:41 PM2/21/14
to
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 4:12:49 PM2/21/14
to
"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-T9bVKCVyUUKm@localhost...
I lived in Boston (North Quincy) for 7 months, 6 days, 13 hours, and 8
seconds... Enjoyed that vid. I avoided driving and took the T, but had
to a few times. I never had a horse walk out in front of me, did see
lot of crazy drivers. I can't believe they used the breakdown lane as a
lane during rush hour... Only thing I miss about Boston is the latkes,
and eggplant subs. The latkes were to die for, as were the subs. They
would shave the eggplant and it was heavenly. I don't know why no one
does it like that around here. I should open a Boston style deli. But
I'd need some VCs.
news:51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-T9bVKCVyUUKm@localhost...
I lived in Boston (North Quincy) for 7 months, 6 days, 13 hours, and 8
seconds... Enjoyed that vid. I avoided driving and took the T, but had
to a few times. I never had a horse walk out in front of me, did see
lot of crazy drivers. I can't believe they used the breakdown lane as a
lane during rush hour... Only thing I miss about Boston is the latkes,
and eggplant subs. The latkes were to die for, as were the subs. They
would shave the eggplant and it was heavenly. I don't know why no one
does it like that around here. I should open a Boston style deli. But
I'd need some VCs.
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 4:15:39 PM2/21/14
to
speaking minority in the UK (well we do, but no more than we have an
every-language-on-Earth-speaking minority just as any country does,
even if it's only a few people). And yet you see these English/Spanish
bollards everywhere, presumably imported directly from the US where
they're relevent.
I think this is called 'globalisation'.
DC
--
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 4:17:14 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 1:46:33 PM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:1f13ab1d-ed86-4d94...@googlegroups.com...
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> >> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> >> other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> >> words?
> >I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
> >of phonetic notation;
>
> Given our previous exchanges both here and on sci.lang, I'm extremely
> surprised you should think that.
Should I have supposed you _were_ one of them?
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:1f13ab1d-ed86-4d94...@googlegroups.com...
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> >> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> >> other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> >> words?
> >I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
> >of phonetic notation;
>
> Given our previous exchanges both here and on sci.lang, I'm extremely
> surprised you should think that.
> ><girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
> >would be something like [spOjl].
>
> The first isn't too far off my pronunciation of "guile" - certainly closer
> to that than it is to a notional "goil". I wonder why Lorenz Hart
> considered them as rhymes?
whose phonetic system led them to hear [Vj] as /oy/.
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 4:22:53 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 1:51:00 PM UTC-5, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19:41 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> > > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19:41 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:49:45 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:
> > > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> > > >"Goil" is standard eye-dialect for "Brooklynese" pronunciation
> > > >of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
> > > >rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
> > > I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> > > other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> > > words?
> > I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
> > of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
> > would be something like [spOjl].
> > Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
> > I've ever heard it.
> > [checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
> > Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
> > I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
> > was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
> > recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
> > mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
> > shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
> > conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
> > as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
>
> Broadway actors. "A ['pV"Is@n] could develop a cold." Vivian Blaine
> was from New York, says Wikipedia, but I'm no judge of how authentic
> her Brooklynese or anyone else's is.
That's _acting_. That was _her character's_ singing voice, not hers.
> > > >of the <er> sound, and the "rhyme" with <spoil> is only an eye-
> > > >rhyme -- they don't rhyme in actual "Brooklynese."
> > > I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with each
> > > other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use in the two
> > > words?
> > I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a modicum
> > of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl], <spoil>
> > would be something like [spOjl].
> > Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
> > I've ever heard it.
> > [checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
> > Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
> > I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
> > was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
> > recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
> > mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
> > shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
> > conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
> > as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
>
> Broadway actors. "A ['pV"Is@n] could develop a cold." Vivian Blaine
> was from New York, says Wikipedia, but I'm no judge of how authentic
> her Brooklynese or anyone else's is.
I saw *Company* at the very end of its first Broadway run, with Vivian
Blaine in the Elaine Stritch role (unfortunately I didn't realize who
Vivian Blaine was at the time). There was nothing dialectal about her
character's pronunciation.
(It was so late in the run that even Larry Kert, who had created Tony
in *West Side Story* nearly 20 years earlier, who took over for the
ailing Dean Jones about two weeks into the show's run -- unfortunately,
the original cast album had already been recorded -- had also been
replaced. I sure would like to know whom by.)
Cf. also Judy Holliday, whose character in *Bells Are Ringing* is very
New Yorky but whose singing isn't.
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 4:25:32 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:31:08 PM UTC-5, Django Cat wrote:
> They're not burgeoning over here, mate. Despite the fact that McDonalds
> uses 'beware wet floor' bollards marked in Spanish to be ready just in
> case they ever are.
Your, er, bollards say "beware"? Ours say "caution." For a more serious
> They're not burgeoning over here, mate. Despite the fact that McDonalds
> uses 'beware wet floor' bollards marked in Spanish to be ready just in
> case they ever are.
hazard it's "warning."
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 4:27:57 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 3:32:55 PM UTC-5, John Varela wrote:
> There are a half-dozen or more ways that natives pronounce New
> Orleans. None of them stresses the third syllable, and AFAIK all of
> them do pronounce the word "New" (as opposed to that "N'Awlins"
> pronunciation that's presented at French Quarter tourist traps).
> Common variants include "noo WAW-lns", "noo WAWL-y@ns", "noo
> AW-lns", "noo AWL-y@ns", and the way I learned it in an Uptown,
> University, or Carrollton accent (depending on who is identifying
> accents) was "noo OAR-lee-@ns". (That first syllable isn't really
> "OAR" but that's the closest I can represent it.)
So you're one of those AUEers who can't be bothered to learn anything
> There are a half-dozen or more ways that natives pronounce New
> Orleans. None of them stresses the third syllable, and AFAIK all of
> them do pronounce the word "New" (as opposed to that "N'Awlins"
> pronunciation that's presented at French Quarter tourist traps).
> Common variants include "noo WAW-lns", "noo WAWL-y@ns", "noo
> AW-lns", "noo AWL-y@ns", and the way I learned it in an Uptown,
> University, or Carrollton accent (depending on who is identifying
> accents) was "noo OAR-lee-@ns". (That first syllable isn't really
> "OAR" but that's the closest I can represent it.)
about phonetic notation?
Jerry Friedman
Feb 21, 2014, 4:40:15 PM2/21/14
to
If that's your criterion, you might be able to come up with a native
speaker of Brooklynese who sang in the same accent when playing the
appropriate characters.
--
Jerry Friedman
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 4:52:46 PM2/21/14
to
mojado)'. I guess it's cheaper to buy these in bulk from the US in case
somebody Spanish comes in, and let Polish and Romanian customers fall
on their arses.
DC
--
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 5:09:44 PM2/21/14
to
suggestions for an alternative.
DC
--
Tony Cooper
Feb 21, 2014, 5:18:35 PM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:09:44 GMT, "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com>
wrote:
The ones in the US McDonald's are simply "signs". Open, they are like
a sawhorse in shape, but they fold flat for storage.
http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=6112-77
A "bollard", to me, is something that is permanently in place. These
signs are easily moved to alert guests to a recently mopped floor or a
spilled drink.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
wrote:
a sawhorse in shape, but they fold flat for storage.
http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=6112-77
A "bollard", to me, is something that is permanently in place. These
signs are easily moved to alert guests to a recently mopped floor or a
spilled drink.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
R H Draney
Feb 21, 2014, 5:24:06 PM2/21/14
to
Jerry Friedman filted:
Barbra Streisand (Brooklyn) as Fanny Brice (NYC): "Even Jiggs the plumber, he's
the man I adore, he had the noive to tell me he's been married before"....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
the man I adore, he had the noive to tell me he's been married before"....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 5:26:26 PM2/21/14
to
Tony Cooper wrote:
> > PS, no, 'bollards' probably isn't the best word. I'd welcome
> > suggestions for an alternative.
> >
> The ones in the US McDonald's are simply "signs". Open, they are like
> a sawhorse in shape, but they fold flat for storage.
>
> http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=611
> 2-77
>
> A "bollard", to me, is something that is permanently in place. These
> signs are easily moved to alert guests to a recently mopped floor or a
> spilled drink.
I'll buy that, Tony. 'Sign' doesn't tell the whole story though, does
> > PS, no, 'bollards' probably isn't the best word. I'd welcome
> > suggestions for an alternative.
> >
> The ones in the US McDonald's are simply "signs". Open, they are like
> a sawhorse in shape, but they fold flat for storage.
>
> http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?rcpNum=611
> 2-77
>
> A "bollard", to me, is something that is permanently in place. These
> signs are easily moved to alert guests to a recently mopped floor or a
> spilled drink.
it? If I read 'sign' in this discussion I'd think of something fixed to
the wall. You're right though, and 'bollard' is wrong.
DC
--
Tony Cooper
Feb 21, 2014, 5:36:57 PM2/21/14
to
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:26:26 GMT, "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com>
wrote:
How about "Portable sign"?
wrote:
Django Cat
Feb 21, 2014, 5:48:17 PM2/21/14
to
like a sawhorse and they put down to warn you when the floors are wet'.
I'll bet there's a generic term in the relevant industry.
cheers
DC
--
Jerry Friedman
Feb 21, 2014, 6:44:38 PM2/21/14
to
NYC, specifically Yorkville.
--
Jerry Friedman
Bertel Lund Hansen
Feb 21, 2014, 6:48:30 PM2/21/14
to
Guy Barry skrev:
> Surely Louis Armstrong established that pronunciation a long time before?
I don't know if that song has had any effect.
--
Bertel, Denmark
> Surely Louis Armstrong established that pronunciation a long time before?
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
Feb 21, 2014, 6:52:16 PM2/21/14
to
Tony Cooper skrev:
> I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
> the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
I do not pronounce "Copenhagen" at all except when speaking
English. The Danish name is a bit different: "København".
By the way, It wouldn't be too difficult for an English-speaking
person to get quite close to the Danish pronunciation. I do not
hereby express any wish to reform the English language; it's
merely an observation.
--
Bertel, Denmark
> I doubt if you pronounce "Copenhagen" the way that Danny Kaye sang in
> the movie "Hans Christian Andersen".
English. The Danish name is a bit different: "København".
By the way, It wouldn't be too difficult for an English-speaking
person to get quite close to the Danish pronunciation. I do not
hereby express any wish to reform the English language; it's
merely an observation.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Feb 21, 2014, 7:01:27 PM2/21/14
to
Libeling cocksucker PeteY Daniels:
>
[...]
>
*Die* of AIDS -- the sooner, the better, you cocksucking, ass-fucking,
psychopathic heap of disgusting faggot shit!
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
>
[...]
>
*Die* of AIDS -- the sooner, the better, you cocksucking, ass-fucking,
psychopathic heap of disgusting faggot shit!
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Feb 21, 2014, 7:01:45 PM2/21/14
to
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Feb 21, 2014, 7:02:02 PM2/21/14
to
Peter Moylan
Feb 21, 2014, 7:24:50 PM2/21/14
to
On 22/02/14 02:10, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Robert Bannister skrev:
>
>> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
>> worth commenting on.
>
> I'll do it anyway.
>
>> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> Yes, and the song "Me and Bobby McGee" has lead many Danes to
> believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
>
What third syllable? "New Orleans" has only one syllable.
> Robert Bannister skrev:
>
>> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not
>> worth commenting on.
>
> I'll do it anyway.
>
>> Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> Yes, and the song "Me and Bobby McGee" has lead many Danes to
> believe that "New Orleans" is stressed on the third syllable.
>
I had totally forgotten that the town was mentioned in the Bobby McGee
song. On the other hand, I've heard it plenty of times in that song
about the three old ladies with flashing eyes.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
bill van
Feb 21, 2014, 7:33:35 PM2/21/14
to
In article <53dd9d87...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
When I was a child, I thought Lodewijk was an exclusively Dutch name.
--
bill
--
bill
Peter Moylan
Feb 21, 2014, 7:45:26 PM2/21/14
to
languages of the countries it has invaded.
Try going into an Australian Maccas and asking for a burger with the
works and a packet of chips. The children behind the counter have been
trained to act as if they don't know what you're saying. Oh, except on
one occasion, when I asked for chips and was asked "Would you like fries
with that?"
Of course, you might say that that's my fault. I've gone into McDonalds
so rarely that I haven't learnt their language. I should have asked
"what's a fry?".
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 8:34:26 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 5:24:06 PM UTC-5, R H Draney wrote:
> Jerry Friedman filted:
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:22:53 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Friday, February 21, 2014 1:51:00 PM UTC-5, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> > On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19:41 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > > I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
> >> > > was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
> >> > > recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
> >> > > mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
> >> > > shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
> >> > > conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
> >> > > as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
> >> > Broadway actors. "A ['pV"Is@n] could develop a cold." Vivian Blaine
> >> > was from New York, says Wikipedia, but I'm no judge of how authentic
> >> > her Brooklynese or anyone else's is.
> >> That's _acting_. That was _her character's_ singing voice, not hers.
> Jerry Friedman filted:
> >On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:22:53 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Friday, February 21, 2014 1:51:00 PM UTC-5, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> > On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19:41 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > > I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent." Sinatra
> >> > > was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his earlier
> >> > > recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the "red-hot
> >> > > mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie O'Shea (who
> >> > > shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand doesn't
> >> > > conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well trained
> >> > > as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West, possibly.
> >> > Broadway actors. "A ['pV"Is@n] could develop a cold." Vivian Blaine
> >> > was from New York, says Wikipedia, but I'm no judge of how authentic
> >> > her Brooklynese or anyone else's is.
> >> That's _acting_. That was _her character's_ singing voice, not hers.
> >If that's your criterion, you might be able to come up with a native
> >speaker of Brooklynese who sang in the same accent when playing the
> >appropriate characters.
>
> Barbra Streisand (Brooklyn) as Fanny Brice (NYC): "Even Jiggs the plumber, he's
> the man I adore, he had the noive to tell me he's been married before"....r
Would you believe I have never seen *Funny Girl*? I now have an excuse
> >speaker of Brooklynese who sang in the same accent when playing the
> >appropriate characters.
>
> Barbra Streisand (Brooklyn) as Fanny Brice (NYC): "Even Jiggs the plumber, he's
> the man I adore, he had the noive to tell me he's been married before"....r
to break the shrink-wrap on the two-movie box set! (Yes, there was a
Funny Girl II -- called Funny Lady.)
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 21, 2014, 8:37:51 PM2/21/14
to
On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:45:26 PM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> McDonalds has never been interested in finding out the local customs and
> languages of the countries it has invaded.
> Try going into an Australian Maccas and asking for a burger with the
> works and a packet of chips. The children behind the counter have been
> trained to act as if they don't know what you're saying. Oh, except on
> one occasion, when I asked for chips and was asked "Would you like fries
> with that?"
>
> Of course, you might say that that's my fault. I've gone into McDonalds
> so rarely that I haven't learnt their language. I should have asked
> "what's a fry?".
What's a "Macca"?
> McDonalds has never been interested in finding out the local customs and
> languages of the countries it has invaded.
> Try going into an Australian Maccas and asking for a burger with the
> works and a packet of chips. The children behind the counter have been
> trained to act as if they don't know what you're saying. Oh, except on
> one occasion, when I asked for chips and was asked "Would you like fries
> with that?"
>
> Of course, you might say that that's my fault. I've gone into McDonalds
> so rarely that I haven't learnt their language. I should have asked
> "what's a fry?".
Sounds like Mary's conception.
Tony Cooper
Feb 21, 2014, 8:48:29 PM2/21/14
to
and arches, the employees are Australian youths. Are you saying they
have been so brainwashed that they've forgotten what chips are?
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Feb 21, 2014, 10:08:46 PM2/21/14
to
Libeling cocksucker PeteY Daniels:
>
[...]
>
Fuck off and *DIE* of AIDS -- the sooner, the better,
>
[...]
>
you cocksucking, ass-fucking, psychopathic heap of
disgusting faggot shit!
Join your fuckin' decayed mommy NOW, you insane son-of-a-whore!
disgusting faggot shit!
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Feb 21, 2014, 10:09:14 PM2/21/14
to
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 10:59:05 PM2/21/14
to
On 21/02/2014 8:53 am, Gus wrote:
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>>
>>
>> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
>> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some
>> people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but
>> poem.
>> --
>
>
> Part of the the lyrics are:
>
> A mulatto
> An albino
> A mosquito
> My libido
I must have been asleep during that bit.
>
>
> The "hello" part is:
>
> Hello, hello, hello, how low? [x3]
> Hello, hello, hello!
I was sure there was a "hallo" and an "aloe" as well. The whole thing
was very boring.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>>
>>
>> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
>> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way some
>> people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe", but
>> quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth
>> commenting on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a
>> poem.
>> --
>
>
> Part of the the lyrics are:
>
> A mulatto
> An albino
> A mosquito
> My libido
I must have been asleep during that bit.
>
>
> The "hello" part is:
>
> Hello, hello, hello, how low? [x3]
> Hello, hello, hello!
I was sure there was a "hallo" and an "aloe" as well. The whole thing
was very boring.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:01:27 PM2/21/14
to
On 21/02/2014 5:18 pm, Gus wrote:
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:mCENu.16920$5D2....@fx10.am4...
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception
>> to the rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted
>> into English have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB
>> - i - doh), but I think that's an error.
>>
>> --
>> Guy Barry
>
> In the vid, he pronounces it "la buy doe". Hope that makes sense. I'm
> not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as
> best I could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la
> bee doe".
But the point remains: in a song words often have strange
pronunciations, sometimes to achieve a special effect like a rhyme,
sometimes for no apparent reason. If the person had been /saying/ this,
it would be more worthy of remark.
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:mCENu.16920$5D2....@fx10.am4...
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>>>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>>>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>>>
>>>
>>> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
>>> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way
>>> some people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe",
>>> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth
>>> commenting on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a
>>> poem.
>>
>> I couldn't hear anything either, but for what it's worth I pronounce
>>>
>>> On 21/02/2014 6:25 am, Gus wrote:
>>>> I thought he was mispronouncing "libido" to be funny, but maybe this is
>>>> how it's pronounced in BrE?
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc
>>>>
>>>
>>> What are you talking about? I listened to as much as I could bear
>>> without hearing the word "libido". I was a bit puzzled by the way
>>> some people sang "Hello", while others went with "L.O." and "aloe",
>>> but quite frankly the way words are pronounced in songs is not worth
>>> commenting on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a
>>> poem.
>>
>> "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE - doh) - incidentally an exception
>> to the rule I mentioned recently that vowels in Latin words adopted
>> into English have their English values. I have heard /'lIbId@U/ (LIB
>> - i - doh), but I think that's an error.
>>
>> --
>> Guy Barry
>
> In the vid, he pronounces it "la buy doe". Hope that makes sense. I'm
> not skilled on using pronunciation marks, and used the vernacular as
> best I could. Emphasis on middle syllable. In AmE, always hear: "la
> bee doe".
But the point remains: in a song words often have strange
pronunciations, sometimes to achieve a special effect like a rhyme,
sometimes for no apparent reason. If the person had been /saying/ this,
it would be more worthy of remark.
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:03:40 PM2/21/14
to
On 21/02/2014 9:59 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>> On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>>>
>>> The city's glamour can never spoil
>>> the dreams of a boy and goil
>>> we'll turn Manhattan
>>> into an isle of joy!
>>>
>>> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>>
>> ? How else would you pronounce it?
>
> I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
>
Supposing you were Irish or came from Brooklyn, what would you do then?
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
> news:9c626de5-4495-4710...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>> On Friday, February 21, 2014 7:02:50 AM UTC-5, Peter Percival wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>>>
>>> Well-known example:
>>
>>> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>>>
>>>
>>> The city's glamour can never spoil
>>> the dreams of a boy and goil
>>> we'll turn Manhattan
>>> into an isle of joy!
>>>
>>> ('Manhatten', as sung by Ella Fitzgerald and no doubt others.)
>>
>> ? How else would you pronounce it?
>
> I wouldn't normally pronounce "goil" at all.
>
Supposing you were Irish or came from Brooklyn, what would you do then?
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:13:06 PM2/21/14
to
On 22/02/2014 2:21 am, Gus wrote:
> "Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
>
>> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
>> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
>> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
>> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
>> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
>>
>> This is the case with other US cities.
>
> I refuse to call the city I live in "Lou-ah-vull". It is named after
> King Louis, not King Louah. In Colorado, they have a "Louisville" they
> pronounce "Lou-iz-vil" I think that is going too far to the other
> extreme. I say "Louie-vil" like the good Northerner I was raised as.
>
> The French do say "Louie" for "Louis" right? "Lou-eee".
More like "Lwee".
> "Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f8reg9pqhfuc1qpkc...@4ax.com...
>
>> That's an assumption that "New Orleans" *has* an accepted
>> pronunciation. The way that I say "New Orleans", which is the way the
>> majority of Americans say "New Orleans", is not the way that natives
>> of New Orleans pronounce it. I can't even represent in writing the
>> sound that means "New Orleans" when spoken by a native.
>>
>> This is the case with other US cities.
>
> I refuse to call the city I live in "Lou-ah-vull". It is named after
> King Louis, not King Louah. In Colorado, they have a "Louisville" they
> pronounce "Lou-iz-vil" I think that is going too far to the other
> extreme. I say "Louie-vil" like the good Northerner I was raised as.
>
> The French do say "Louie" for "Louis" right? "Lou-eee".
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:20:48 PM2/21/14
to
On 22/02/2014 5:12 am, Gus wrote:
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-T9bVKCVyUUKm@localhost...
>> For a big dose of Boston accent, view
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBqaXwamF0o
>
> I lived in Boston (North Quincy) for 7 months, 6 days, 13 hours, and 8
> seconds... Enjoyed that vid. I avoided driving and took the T, but had
> to a few times. I never had a horse walk out in front of me, did see
> lot of crazy drivers. I can't believe they used the breakdown lane as a
> lane during rush hour... Only thing I miss about Boston is the latkes,
> and eggplant subs. The latkes were to die for, as were the subs. They
> would shave the eggplant and it was heavenly. I don't know why no one
> does it like that around here. I should open a Boston style deli. But
> I'd need some VCs.
>
>
Did I hear "rotary" for what we call a "roundabout" and what we thought
you called a "traffic circle"?
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-T9bVKCVyUUKm@localhost...
>> For a big dose of Boston accent, view
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBqaXwamF0o
>
> I lived in Boston (North Quincy) for 7 months, 6 days, 13 hours, and 8
> seconds... Enjoyed that vid. I avoided driving and took the T, but had
> to a few times. I never had a horse walk out in front of me, did see
> lot of crazy drivers. I can't believe they used the breakdown lane as a
> lane during rush hour... Only thing I miss about Boston is the latkes,
> and eggplant subs. The latkes were to die for, as were the subs. They
> would shave the eggplant and it was heavenly. I don't know why no one
> does it like that around here. I should open a Boston style deli. But
> I'd need some VCs.
>
>
Did I hear "rotary" for what we call a "roundabout" and what we thought
you called a "traffic circle"?
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:22:41 PM2/21/14
to
On 22/02/2014 2:11 am, Gus wrote:
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>> ...Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> You have found the elusive rhyme for orange?
"car engine"?
> "Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
> news:bmniv2...@mid.individual.net...
>> ...Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> You have found the elusive rhyme for orange?
"car engine"?
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:29:35 PM2/21/14
to
On 21/02/2014 6:39 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>
> I don't have cause to use it very often.
>
Not in a "normal" conversation, anyway. Otherwise, "luh-BEED-oh"
/l@ 'bi dVU/ or /l@ 'bi deU/.
> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>
> I don't have cause to use it very often.
>
Not in a "normal" conversation, anyway. Otherwise, "luh-BEED-oh"
/l@ 'bi dVU/ or /l@ 'bi deU/.
Gus
Feb 21, 2014, 11:33:59 PM2/21/14
to
"Robert Bannister" <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in message
news:bmqmel...@mid.individual.net...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-8_GI4d2c
Robert Bannister
Feb 21, 2014, 11:36:19 PM2/21/14
to
On 22/02/2014 12:47 am, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:27:24 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Bertel Lund Hansen" wrote in message
>> news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>>>
>>> Gus skrev:
>>> this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
>>> in English):
>>>
>>> 'li bi doe
>>> with i's like in "history".
>>
>> I said some time ago that I pronounce "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE -
>> doh), although I have heard the pronunciation you suggest. But it doesn't
>> come up an awful lot in conversation.
>
> But isn't this just somebody who incorrectly thinks that it is the
> correct pronunciation? There are a lot of those examples among native
> speakers. Old habits die hard even when you know something is wrong.
>
> My father always pronounced Pantagenets as Planta genets. I never
^l
> questioned him but never heard it pronounced this way anywhere else.
>
I hope he pronounced it with a French "ant" and "et". Of course, it
meant "broom" - the plant the family took as their emblem. Not sure
whether that's Latin or Old French or Old Norman French. I haven't
checked, but I think modern French for broom is "genêt", so Latin was
maybe "genesta" - just checked "Planta genesta" is Latin.
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:27:24 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Bertel Lund Hansen" wrote in message
>> news:53076daf$0$294$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>>>
>>> Gus skrev:
>>>
>>>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>>>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>>>
>>> English is my second language, but since nobody else has answered
>>>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>>>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>>>
>>> this, I thought I might venture a guess (how I would pronounce it
>>> in English):
>>>
>>> 'li bi doe
>>> with i's like in "history".
>>
>> I said some time ago that I pronounce "libido" as /lI'bi:d@U/ (li - BEE -
>> doh), although I have heard the pronunciation you suggest. But it doesn't
>> come up an awful lot in conversation.
>
> But isn't this just somebody who incorrectly thinks that it is the
> correct pronunciation? There are a lot of those examples among native
> speakers. Old habits die hard even when you know something is wrong.
>
> My father always pronounced Pantagenets as Planta genets. I never
^l
> questioned him but never heard it pronounced this way anywhere else.
>
I hope he pronounced it with a French "ant" and "et". Of course, it
meant "broom" - the plant the family took as their emblem. Not sure
whether that's Latin or Old French or Old Norman French. I haven't
checked, but I think modern French for broom is "genêt", so Latin was
maybe "genesta" - just checked "Planta genesta" is Latin.
Peter Moylan
Feb 22, 2014, 12:17:17 AM2/22/14
to
leave their Australian language at the door when they arrive for work.
Django Cat
Feb 22, 2014, 2:24:29 AM2/22/14
to
Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/02/14 08:52, Django Cat wrote:
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:31:08 PM UTC-5, Django Cat wrote:
> > >
> >>> They're not burgeoning over here, mate. Despite the fact that
> >>> McDonalds uses 'beware wet floor' bollards marked in Spanish to be
> >>> ready just in case they ever are.
> > >
> >> Your, er, bollards say "beware"? Ours say "caution." For a more
> >> serious hazard it's "warning."
> >
> > Good call. The main point though is they also say 'cuidado (piso
> > mojado)'. I guess it's cheaper to buy these in bulk from the US in
> > case somebody Spanish comes in, and let Polish and Romanian
> > customers fall on their arses.
>
> McDonalds has never been interested in finding out the local customs
> and languages of the countries it has invaded.
It's not just McDonalds that use these bilingual Spanish/English wet
> On 22/02/14 08:52, Django Cat wrote:
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, February 21, 2014 2:31:08 PM UTC-5, Django Cat wrote:
> > >
> >>> They're not burgeoning over here, mate. Despite the fact that
> >>> McDonalds uses 'beware wet floor' bollards marked in Spanish to be
> >>> ready just in case they ever are.
> > >
> >> Your, er, bollards say "beware"? Ours say "caution." For a more
> >> serious hazard it's "warning."
> >
> > Good call. The main point though is they also say 'cuidado (piso
> > mojado)'. I guess it's cheaper to buy these in bulk from the US in
> > case somebody Spanish comes in, and let Polish and Romanian
> > customers fall on their arses.
>
> McDonalds has never been interested in finding out the local customs
> and languages of the countries it has invaded.
floor things in the UK, but otherwise I'm entirely with you...
>
> Try going into an Australian Maccas and asking for a burger with the
> works and a packet of chips. The children behind the counter have been
> trained to act as if they don't know what you're saying. Oh, except on
> one occasion, when I asked for chips and was asked "Would you like
> fries with that?"
one the gets me - if I want chips and a drink with my burger I'll ask
for them.
There is, of course, an argument that a US fry and a UK chip are
different beasts. Where the AusChip would fit in this proposed taxonomy
is outside my own range of experience.
>
> Of course, you might say that that's my fault. I've gone into
> McDonalds so rarely that I haven't learnt their language. I should
> have asked "what's a fry?".
so it was go in McDs or go thirsty. Actually it was OK. The place was
full of Spanish people saying how glad they were they'd been able to
read the warning signs about the wet floors.[1]
DC [1] Not all of this is true.
--
Django Cat
Feb 22, 2014, 2:25:56 AM2/22/14
to
DC
--
Django Cat
Feb 22, 2014, 2:35:56 AM2/22/14
to
original 1993 song, considered an archtype of the grunge genre and
distinctly chilling in the context of it being written by the
short-lived and tragic Kurt Cobain. Grunge was a kind of punky/metally
mash up featuring loud guitars and lads in tarten shirts [1] - it's the
fact of the UOGB playing the song on ukes while wearing dinner jackets
[2] that lends the clip humour.
DC [1] plaid if we must [2] tuxedos?
--
Django Cat
Feb 22, 2014, 2:36:24 AM2/22/14
to
Peter Percival wrote:
>
> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
>
> > on. Words can be pronounced any way at all in a song or a poem.
>
> Well-known example:
>
> The city's glamour can never spoil
> the dreams of a boy and goil
Genius.
>
> The city's glamour can never spoil
> the dreams of a boy and goil
DC
--
Snidely
Feb 22, 2014, 4:12:08 AM2/22/14
to
Gus exclaimed on 2/21/2014 :
The Kingsmen's famous recording was made the same day the lead singer
got his bands tightened. I mean, his braces were tightened by the
orthodontist, not that his transmission was tuned by a mechanic [1].
This was a painful process.
[1] Cue Noel Paul Stookey
[2] TBD
[3] I didn't verify that link was of the KFR, because I have something
else to listen to at the moment. I also didn't check to see if they
played the record backwards or a different speed, as the FBI allegedly
did.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
The Kingsmen's famous recording was made the same day the lead singer
got his bands tightened. I mean, his braces were tightened by the
orthodontist, not that his transmission was tuned by a mechanic [1].
This was a painful process.
[1] Cue Noel Paul Stookey
[2] TBD
[3] I didn't verify that link was of the KFR, because I have something
else to listen to at the moment. I also didn't check to see if they
played the record backwards or a different speed, as the FBI allegedly
did.
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Guy Barry
Feb 22, 2014, 4:52:42 AM2/22/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bmqndi...@mid.individual.net...
>
>On 21/02/2014 6:39 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>>
>> I don't have cause to use it very often.
>>
>Not in a "normal" conversation, anyway. Otherwise, "luh-BEED-oh"
>/l@ 'bi dVU/ or /l@ 'bi deU/.
Schwa in the first syllable? I know that's normal for American speakers,
>On 21/02/2014 6:39 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Gus" wrote in message news:le79vu$g9t$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>> So how do BrE speakers pronounce "libido" in a normal conversation--
>>> BrE speaker to BrE speaker?
>>
>> I don't have cause to use it very often.
>>
>Not in a "normal" conversation, anyway. Otherwise, "luh-BEED-oh"
>/l@ 'bi dVU/ or /l@ 'bi deU/.
but I thought you might retain the /I/ as British speakers generally do in
unstressed vowels with a short "i".
--
Guy Barry
Gus
Feb 22, 2014, 8:51:06 AM2/22/14
to
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:wrYNu.3023$y81....@fx20.am4...
I like the Weird Al version too.
The backstory is interesting.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=416
"The video ends with the assembled students destroying the set and the
band's gear. The demolition of the set captured in the video's
conclusion was the result of genuine discontent. The extras that filled
the bleachers had been forced to stay seated through numerous replays of
the song for an entire afternoon of filming. Cobain convinced Bayer to
allow the extras to mosh, and the set became a scene of chaos. "Once the
kids came out dancing they just said 'fuck you,' because they were so
tired of this shit throughout the day," Cobain said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smells_Like_Teen_Spirit#Music_video
news:wrYNu.3023$y81....@fx20.am4...
The backstory is interesting.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=416
"The video ends with the assembled students destroying the set and the
band's gear. The demolition of the set captured in the video's
conclusion was the result of genuine discontent. The extras that filled
the bleachers had been forced to stay seated through numerous replays of
the song for an entire afternoon of filming. Cobain convinced Bayer to
allow the extras to mosh, and the set became a scene of chaos. "Once the
kids came out dancing they just said 'fuck you,' because they were so
tired of this shit throughout the day," Cobain said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smells_Like_Teen_Spirit#Music_video
CDB
Feb 22, 2014, 9:09:48 AM2/22/14
to
On 21/02/2014 1:19 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
[Doity Goity Moiphy takes Manhattan]
>> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with
>> each other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use
>> in the two words?
> I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a
> modicum of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl],
> <spoil> would be something like [spOjl].
> Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
> I've ever heard it.
> [checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
> Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
> I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent."
> Sinatra was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his
> earlier recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the
> "red-hot mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie
> O'Shea (who shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand
> doesn't conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well
> trained as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West,
> possibly.
Streisand did do it for comic effect, though. I don't know exactly what
accent she sings "Second-hand Rose" in, but the vowel of "girl" seems to
be the same one she sings in "Even Jake the plumber, he's the man I
adore, He had the nerve to tell me he's been married before."
> Guy Barry wrote:
[Doity Goity Moiphy takes Manhattan]
>> I know the song pretty well and they're usually sung to rhyme with
>> each other. What vowels would an actual "Brooklynese" speaker use
>> in the two words?
> I hope you're not one of those AUEers who refuse to learn even a
> modicum of phonetic notation; <girl> would be something like [gVjl],
> <spoil> would be something like [spOjl].
> Is that a subsequent stanza of "I'll Take Manhattan"? I don't think
> I've ever heard it.
> [checked the Lorenz "Larry" Hart lyrics site]
> Yup, it's way down there ... next-to-last stanza.
> I don't know of anyone who would sing with a "Brooklyn accent."
> Sinatra was from Hoboken, and that occasionally comes out in his
> earlier recordings. I don't have in my mind's ear the voices of the
> "red-hot mamas" like Sophie Tucker (the Last Of them) and Tessie
> O'Shea (who shared the Ed Sullivan Show with the Beatles). Streisand
> doesn't conceal her origins in her speaking voice but is too well
> trained as a singer for it to creep in there. Hmm, Mae West,
> possibly.
accent she sings "Second-hand Rose" in, but the vowel of "girl" seems to
be the same one she sings in "Even Jake the plumber, he's the man I
adore, He had the nerve to tell me he's been married before."
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