What is a semi-celebrity?
uri
Derek Turner
> What is a semi-celebrity?
*sigh* context?
the Omrud
> What is a semi-celebrity?
Heather Mills?
--
David
Leslie Danks
> What is a semi-celebrity?
Someone famous next door.
--
Les (BrE)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>What is a semi-celebrity?
First we need to answer the question "what is a celebrity?".
Wikipedia helps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity
A celebrity is a widely-recognized or notable person who commands a high
degree of public and media attention. The word stems from the Latin verb
"celebrere" but they may not become a celebrity unless public and mass
media interest is piqued.
There are degrees of celebrity status which vary based on an individual's
region or field of notoriety. While someone might be a celebrity to some
people, to others they may be completely unknown.
A global celebrity on the other hand is someone who is known by most
people or is a mainstream celebrity. Such celebrities are also known as
either a household name or superstar. For example, Virgin Director Richard
Branson was notable as a CEO, but he did not become a global celebrity
until he attempted to circumnavigate the globe in a hot air balloon and
generate publicity for himself. Another high profile categorisation of
celebrity status is the A-list, based on the marketability of celebrities.
Generally speaking, a celebrity is someone who seeks media attention and
implied by some to be a part of western culture and more specifically the
American Dream as a measure of success. Celebrities that shy away from the
public eye or keep a very separate private life are called a reluctant
celebrity.
A "semi-celebrity" would be a person who lives a celebrity lifestyle but not
to the same extent as other celebrities.
A synonym for "a semi-celebrity" might be "a part-time celebrity".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
James Hogg
<leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>uri wrote:
>
>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>
>Someone famous next door.
Depends on the context. In the USA it could mean a famous driver
of an articulated truck.
James
(BrE with a distinctly septentrional flavour)
HVS
> uri wrote:
>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>
> Heather Mills?
Ooo - good one.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Bob G
> What is a semi-celebrity?
A person who is recognized by half the people who would recognize a
full celebrity.
HVS
Or somebody named Paris Waldorf.
James Silverton
> uri wrote:
>> What is a semi-celebrity?
> Heather Mills?
About as capable of definition as a "supermodel".
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Django Cat
> What is a semi-celebrity?
It's when the left side of a person is famous but nobody's ever heard
of the right side.
DC
--
Marius Hancu
Good one.
Pat Durkin
news:vaego4pf1j55e2rjr...@4ax.com
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:28:37 +0100, Leslie Danks
> <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>
>> uri wrote:
>>
>>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>>
>> Someone famous next door.
>
> Depends on the context. In the USA it could mean a famous driver
> of an articulated truck.
Or, nowadays, the unmarried mother of octuplets, with no job, no money,
and a peculiar obsession with being impregnated by sperm from a
particular male.
Django Cat
Were you thinking of someone specific?
DC
--
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Nadya Suleman no doubt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleman_octuplets
A single mother, living with her parents, had six kids already, wanted one
more, had IVF, produced eight. Her doctors and nurses were shocked at the
number of babies she produced -- they were expecting only seven.
From The Telegraph:
http://tinyurl.com/aeftq6
...the children's grandfather, has said he intends to return to a
contractor's job in Iraq as a translator to help pay for their upbringing.
Ms Suleman, who worked as a psychiatric assistant until starting her
family, is on welfare payments.
the Omrud
He can't have been, or he'd have mentioned that she should already have
six children.
--
David
the Omrud
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:50:33 GMT, "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote:
>
>> Pat Durkin wrote:
>>
>>> "James Hogg" <Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vaego4pf1j55e2rjr...@4ax.com
>>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:28:37 +0100, Leslie Danks
>>>> <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> uri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>>>>> Someone famous next door.
>>>> Depends on the context. In the USA it could mean a famous driver
>>>> of an articulated truck.
>>> Or, nowadays, the unmarried mother of octuplets, with no job, no
>>> money, and a peculiar obsession with being impregnated by sperm from
>>> a particular male.
>> Were you thinking of someone specific?
>>
> Nadya Suleman no doubt.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleman_octuplets
>
> A single mother, living with her parents, had six kids already, wanted one
> more, had IVF, produced eight. Her doctors and nurses were shocked at the
> number of babies she produced -- they were expecting only seven.
Good grief, that page said that she is 16 years old, which seemed
unlikely since she already has six children. I've corrected it.
-
David
Django Cat
'Sho nuff.
DC
--
Mike Lyle
Uri, have you now worked out why very few of the responses to your
question have been serious? (You have been told before.)
--
Mike.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> What is a semi-celebrity?
Someone who isn't.
--
athel
Maria C.
> uri wrote:
>
>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>
> Someone who isn't.
Or someone who's only in the semi-finals, hoping to move up to the Real
Thing.
--
Maria C.
Pat Durkin
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
news:CS%hl.29852$Sp5....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
I didn't think it necessary to mention other children by the same
father. Having octuplets who (thus far) are surviving, is noteworthy
enough. Having an obsession with impregnation by the same man should be
enough indication that she has had prior pregnancies. I hadn't heard
that about her father returning to Iraq for a job. I had only heard the
name of the young mother this morning, and wasn't sure how it was
spelled.
There has been some discussion of the ethics of a physician implanting
the entire eight "viable" embryos, as well as the ethics of any
physician allowing the fertilization procedure to go forward if the
mental health of the prospective mother was in question.
I assumed she was on welfare, but difficult births and
neo-natal/congenital problems are paid for by the states in many cases,
so as not to impoverish an entire family, so didn't mention the welfare
situation.
Now, would you pay for a book about her experiences? She is shopping
her story for $2,000,000. How about a made-for-HBO movie (or other
pay-per-view)?
Oh, there is that other semi-celebrity, suspected serial killer of wives
(Blackbeard?) Drew Peterson in Illinois. Both he and his latest amour
will probably be writing books soon. The erstwhile "fiancée" says Drew
was only desirous of more publicity.
R H Draney
>
>What is a semi-celebrity?
Brad Pitt without Angelina?...r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
Mike Lyle
ICBW, but I'm developing a sense that the kind of people who appear on
/Celebrity Big Brother/ and other /Celebrity xxx/ programmes are often
referred to with such terms as "semi-celebrity", "Z-list celebrity" and
such-like out of snobbery. From the tabloids, the TV listings magazines,
and some ISPs' home pages, it seems pretty clear that Darren and Tracey
Public actually do know who these people are, and even know them by
their first names, and aren't wholly indifferent to what happens to
them.
Perhaps it's mostly people who can snootily call some of their
fellow-citizens "Darren and Tracey Public" who use these denigratory
expressions. That wouldn't rule out Daz and Trace using them in
self-deprecation, of course.
--
Mike.
Robin Bignall
wrote:
>What is a semi-celebrity?
Prince Harry's ex-girlfriend, whatshername.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Robert Lieblich
Seems to me that anyone who would impregnate a woman in her mental
condition isn't all that particular.
--
Bob Lieblich
Specific male
Pat Durkin
"Robert Lieblich" <r_s_li...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4988D652...@yahoo.com...
Glenn Knickerbocker
> A single mother, living with her parents, had six kids already, wanted one
> more, had IVF, produced eight.
According to CTV, these were embryos left over from an earlier IVF that
she didn't want to destroy. I wonder if she got a "use 'em or lose 'em"
letter from the fertility clinic last year.
ŹR
Joe Fineman
> What is a semi-celebrity?
A half-ass.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: And for the lifetime of a song, :||
||: The fickle were true and the weak were strong. :||
R H Draney
>
>On 03 Feb 2009, Bob G wrote
>
>> On Feb 3, 5:33 am, uri <darkmatte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> What is a semi-celebrity?
>>
>> A person who is recognized by half the people who would recognize a
>> full celebrity.
>
>Or somebody named Paris Waldorf.
Someone with twelve degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon....r
Pat Durkin
news:4988DE07...@bestweb.net
I see. A fast-approaching sell-by date?
Steve Hayes
>What is a semi-celebrity?
An articulate one?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Garrett Wollman
Someone who is not quite unimportant enough to be famous only for
being famous.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Lew
> What is a semi-celebrity?
Someone famous among long-haul truckers.
--
Lew
Paul Wolff
Or even cell-by. I'm seeing a new meaning of "left on the shelf" here,
too.
--
Paul
John Holmes
> What is a semi-celebrity?
A confused imbecile's tyre.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
uri
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 03:33:37 -0800, uri wrote:
> > What is a semi-celebrity?
>
You want context.
Well, I asked Macunaima (a Brazilian poster in Brazzilbrief) about a
Brazilian girl and he said he doesn't know her but he thinks she's
probably a semi-celeb from Brazilian reality T.V.
Leslie Danks
Quite famous, then.
--
Les (BrE)
uri
> Quite famous, then.
But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I was waiting for that question!
I think Leslie Danks used "quite" with its common BrE meaning of "moderately",
not its AmE meaning of "very".
In BrE "quite" can mean "moderately" or "very" depending on context. This can
be quite confusing.
the Omrud
Quite.
--
David
Leslie Danks
A celeb (celebrity) is someone of whom most people have heard. Long ago, it
was necessary to achieve something outstanding in order to qualify as
a "celebrity". Admiral Lord Nelson, for example, or Charles Darwin,
achieved this status by doing exceptional things, which were talked about
and which led to their becoming celebrities.
These days, thanks to television and the other mass media, celebrity status
is attainable without the tiresome necessity of having to achieve something
outstanding. It suffices to be recognised by enough people. A bit part in a
soap opera, for example, means you get to open new supermarkets in the
presence (so I'm told) of dozens of excited fans.
I think of a "semi-celeb" as something which has not achieved celebrity
status in its own right (even under today's lax standards), but attaches
itself to celebrities and basks vicariously in their glory; a kind
of "celebrity-dag". As already mentioned upthread, acting as a receptacle
for the sperm of a celebrity is one way of establishing the necessary
bonding.
I don't know enough about Brazilian reality TV to judge whether this applies
in this particular case.
--
Les (BrE)
the Omrud
> uri wrote:
>
>> On Feb 4, 1:10 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite famous, then.
>> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
>
> A celeb (celebrity) is someone of whom most people have heard. Long ago, it
> was necessary to achieve something outstanding in order to qualify as
> a "celebrity". Admiral Lord Nelson, for example, or Charles Darwin,
> achieved this status by doing exceptional things, which were talked about
> and which led to their becoming celebrities.
>
> These days, thanks to television and the other mass media, celebrity status
> is attainable without the tiresome necessity of having to achieve something
> outstanding. It suffices to be recognised by enough people. A bit part in a
> soap opera, for example, means you get to open new supermarkets in the
> presence (so I'm told) of dozens of excited fans.
It seems to me that "a celebrity" is now somebody who specifically
hasn't done anything outstanding or achieved significant rank or
position. You can't call the Queen a celebrity, nor the Home Secretary,
nor Andy Murray. They are rightly famous.
--
David
James Hogg
That's an astute observation and should lead to a new definition.
A celebrity is a person who is famous for no good reason.
James
(BrE with a distinctly septentrional flavour)
Leslie Danks
A good point, but not easy to apply. Would you call Mr. and Mrs. Beckham
celebrities? Or Mick Jagger, for example?
--
Les (BrE)
the Omrud
True. It would depend on the circumstances, I suppose. Mr Beckham is
not a celebrity when playing for England, but he might be when appearing
at a film premiere.
--
David
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>uri wrote:
>
>> On Feb 4, 1:10 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite famous, then.
>>
>> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
>
>A celeb (celebrity) is someone of whom most people have heard. Long ago, it
>was necessary to achieve something outstanding in order to qualify as
>a "celebrity". Admiral Lord Nelson, for example, or Charles Darwin,
>achieved this status by doing exceptional things, which were talked about
>and which led to their becoming celebrities.
>
>These days, thanks to television and the other mass media, celebrity status
>is attainable without the tiresome necessity of having to achieve something
>outstanding. It suffices to be recognised by enough people. A bit part in a
>soap opera, for example, means you get to open new supermarkets in the
>presence (so I'm told) of dozens of excited fans.
It is easy to decry the celebrity culture in the UK. I know, I have done it,
and it is easy!
However, it is the basis of non-negligible economic activity. All sorts of
people make money from it, not just the celebs and their managers and
publicists, but the ordinary employees of magazines, newspapers, TV companies,
shops where magazines and newspapers are sold, etc.
I think of it as sort of street theatre in which new characters voluntarily
join the cast from time to time, strut their stuff, then leave when the income
dries up (or they die). Cast members act themselves, or a version of
themselves authored by their publicists and managers.
It all keeps money circulating and keeps people in jobs.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Leslie Danks wrote:
The comedian Jim Moir (professional name Vic Reeves) was a contestant on the
TV show I'm a Celebrity... Get Me out of Here! (UK). Someone commented to him
that he wasn't a celebrity. He was taken aback, but the comment was correct.
He does his job as a comedian and then goes home. He does not join in the
celebrity circus.
Pat Durkin
news:Dmhsw0jS...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk
Ha Ha! "Shelf life" gets a new usage.
Don Aitken
Better, a celebrity is someone who is famous for being famous,
irrespective of their other achievements, if any.
The Guardian claims that Giotto was the first person to achieve that;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2004/dec/04/art
The earliest person I can find being described by contemporaries as
"famous for being famous" is Edie Sedgwick, but I suspect it goes back
quite a bit further.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> These days, thanks to television and the other mass media, celebrity
> status is attainable without the tiresome necessity of having to
> achieve something outstanding. It suffices to be recognised by enough
> people. A bit part in a soap opera, for example, means you get to
> open new supermarkets in the presence (so I'm told) of dozens of
> excited fans.
Which calls to mind the word's origin, in words around the idea
"multitude". In Rome, one was "celebrated" if followed about in public
by a large number of people: these would be one's "clients" and
dependents rather than mere spectators. (An earlier post quoted WikiP as
saying the word came from a Latin verb, which I saw was mis-spelt: I've
corrected WikiP to "celebrare".)
I see OED's earliest "celebrity" for the person rather than for fame
itself dates from 1849, when it was scare-quoted: "Did you see any of
those 'celebrities,' as you call them?" Emerson used it unmarked in
1856.
[...]
--
Mike.
Maria C.
> Oh, there is that other semi-celebrity, suspected serial killer of
> wives (Blackbeard?) Drew Peterson in Illinois. Both he and his
> latest amour will probably be writing books soon. The erstwhile
> "fiancée" says Drew was only desirous of more publicity.
So they're not really going to get married? Lucky her. She may be
escaping a foul and murderous demise. (But surely he wouldn't be stupid
enough to try for three... would he?)
Drew (Illinois) and Scott (California) have given the surname of
"Peterson" a bad rap.
--
Maria C.
Maria C.
> the Omrud wrote:
>> It seems to me that "a celebrity" is now somebody who specifically
>> hasn't done anything outstanding or achieved significant rank or
>> position. You can't call the Queen a celebrity, nor the Home
>> Secretary, nor Andy Murray. They are rightly famous.
>>
> A good point, but not easy to apply. Would you call Mr. and Mrs.
> Beckham celebrities? Or Mick Jagger, for example?
Not sure about the Beckhams, but I'd call Mick Jagger a "rock star" as
opposed to "celebrity."*
However, "rock star" is taking on new meaning in the US** political
arena. President Obama was called a "rock star" during his campaign to
win the Presidency -- and still is, come to think of it. Other young and
upcoming political figures are likewise being called "rock stars."
"Distiguished," "well-known," "famous" and other older terms are just
not glitzy enough, I guess. And it seems that "celebrity," in itself,
does not have the cachet it once did.
*And I'd call movie stars "movie stars" rather than "celebrities."
** In other political arenas, too?
--
Maria C.
The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from
sticking to the matter at hand. [Lewis Thomas, 1913 - 1993.]
R H Draney
If you find an earlier example, I suspect her surname will be Gabor....
Do we have an objective definition of "famous"?...best I can come up with is "if
the number of people who recognize you exceeds the number of people you
recognize, you're famous"....
(Or "...you might be a redneck")....r
James Hogg
wrote:
>Don Aitken filted:
>>
>>On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:22:42 +0000, James Hogg
>><Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:10:37 GMT, the Omrud
>>><usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It seems to me that "a celebrity" is now somebody who specifically
>>>>hasn't done anything outstanding or achieved significant rank or
>>>>position. You can't call the Queen a celebrity, nor the Home Secretary,
>>>>nor Andy Murray. They are rightly famous.
>>>
>>>That's an astute observation and should lead to a new definition.
>>>A celebrity is a person who is famous for no good reason.
>>>
>>Better, a celebrity is someone who is famous for being famous,
>>irrespective of their other achievements, if any.
>>
>>The Guardian claims that Giotto was the first person to achieve that;
>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2004/dec/04/art
>>
>>The earliest person I can find being described by contemporaries as
>>"famous for being famous" is Edie Sedgwick, but I suspect it goes back
>>quite a bit further.
>
>If you find an earlier example, I suspect her surname will be Gabor....
A snippet at Google Books says "the original famous-for-being
famous icon was 1950s blonde Zsa..."
The OED has an entry, but the first quote is from 1979 and refers
to Lauren Bacall. Google Books shows it in "Count Ten" by Hans
Otto Storm. from 1940.
>Do we have an objective definition of "famous"?...best I can come up with is "if
>the number of people who recognize you exceeds the number of people you
>recognize, you're famous"....
In older times, before pictures became ubiquitous, it would have
had more to do with the number of people who had heard your name
and knew of your reputation. That is the essence of the OED
definition: "Celebrated in fame or public report; much talked
about, renowned."
Pat Durkin
news:qRkil.15390$YU2....@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com
Is that your maiden name, by any chance?
I am glad my surname is fairly rare, for in some of my research I found
some fellow Durkins had somewhat redolent reputations.
(I mean, I looked up the Durkins and the McKernans who had been
transported, and found very few McKernans in the lists.) I have the
suspicion that my great-grandfather Durkin got out of Ireland just in
time.
Robert Bannister
Whom does it confuse? Not those of us who speak that way. I can't think
of one instance where there has been an ambiguity - not even in print.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
It can confuse those who are not familiar with BrE.
Robert Bannister
>
> A celeb (celebrity) is someone of whom most people have heard.
I'm not even sure about that. I would have thought that a celeb was
someone of whom those people who write (and many of those who read)
gossip columns have heard. They only become (in-)famous when their
antics start appearing in real news articles. Sports stars and some pop
stars come somewhere in between, depending on whether one pays attention
to the relevant sport/music, whether they perform some disgusting act in
public or whether their vapid comments on world affairs are reported or not.
I admit, however, that these days the distinction between trivial and
real in the media is blurring, possibly because of my last "whether"
above: "That was the Federal Treasurer. Now, we'll try to find out how
Madonna is coping with the financial crash".
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> In older times, before pictures became ubiquitous, it would have
> had more to do with the number of people who had heard your name
> and knew of your reputation. That is the essence of the OED
> definition: "Celebrated in fame or public report; much talked
> about, renowned."
To my mind, this is the difference between "celebrity" and the new word
"celeb" - a celebrity is famous or infamous for something; a celeb is
well-known, particularly to those who are interested in such things, for
attending big parties and functions and/or doing very silly things in
public. OMG, I suppose that makes most politicians celebs.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Indeed, it seems to be a mark of our modern culture that those who
command very high pay (not the very highest, but well above the average)
are employed in totally non-productive activities.
--
Rob Bannister
tony cooper
wrote:
This reminds me that I've always meant to go to the Mudcat Forum and
find out the meaning of "Murshin Durkin". It seems like a first and
last name, but the lyrics indicate that it's a location:
http://www.paddy.de/lyrics/songs/murshindurkin.html
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Pat Durkin
news:j6mko49cdu8eom7f9...@4ax.com
I think we had a recording of that song, "Goodbye, Missus Durkin", done
by the Clancy Brothers, back in the '60s. We bought it for Mom.
Another track on the album, I think, was "The Unicorn".
I notice the website is in German, so assume their was some problem in
translating?
tony cooper
wrote:
That would probably be the album by the Irish Rovers. I have this
album on 33, and it looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unicorn The album originally came
out in 1967, and does contain "Murshin Durkin". The Clancy Brothers
probably recorded it too, but so did 100 other Irish groups. It's a
standard.
>I notice the website is in German, so assume their was some problem in
>translating?
>
The lyrics are on several websites, and I just selected one. As with
any song of this type, the lyrics change slightly in every
representation. The "Murshin Durkin" doesn't change, though.
This site contains a reference in "Dirty Linen" to the song "Murshin
Durkin": http://cdbaby.com/cd/4tothebar2 ("Dirty Linen" is *the*
magazine for folk music fans)
I suppose "Murshin" might be a corruption of "Missus", and a reference
to the singer's landlady or employer. The last verse is usually:
So, Good Bye Murshin Durkin
I'm sick and tired of workin?
No more I'll dig the praties
and no longer I'll be fooled
But as sure my name is Carney
I'll be off to Californy
And instead of digging praties
I'll be digging lumps of gold
Maria C.
> Maria C. wrote, in part:
>> Drew (Illinois) and Scott (California) have given the surname of
>> "Peterson" a bad rap.
>
> Is that your maiden name, by any chance?
No. Btw, my maiden name is a bit lower -- less common -- in the
rankings* than Peterson.
*See the US surname listing at:
http://names.mongabay.com/most_common_surnames16.htm
I just find the last name coincidence interesting. And I do understand
that Drew may not be guilty of murder. (For those who don't know about
Scott, a convicted murderer, and Drew, who is suspected by many to have
murdered two of his wives, I'm sure there's plenty online.)
> I am glad my surname is fairly rare, ...
Number 4580 in the rankings.
> ... for in some of my research I found some fellow Durkins had
> somewhat redolent reputations.
> (I mean, I looked up the Durkins and the McKernans
McKernans? Your mother's people? Your g-grandfather's mother's surname?
> ....who had been transported, and found very few McKernans in the
> lists.) I have the suspicion that my great-grandfather Durkin got out
> of Ireland just in time.
Just think. If he hadn't left there at all, you'd probably be posting
from the Emerald Isle. Or not, I suppose.
--
Maria C., whose father-in-law came to the US from Ireland in 1927 (at
the age of 17).
Lew
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 06:55:49 +0900, Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:39:48 -0800 (PST), uri <darkma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 1:10 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quite famous, then.
>>>> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
>>> I was waiting for that question!
>>>
>>> I think Leslie Danks used "quite" with its common BrE meaning of "moderately",
>>> not its AmE meaning of "very".
>>>
>>> In BrE "quite" can mean "moderately" or "very" depending on context. This can
>>> be quite confusing.
>> Whom does it confuse? Not those of us who speak that way. I can't think
>> of one instance where there has been an ambiguity - not even in print.
>
> It can confuse those who are not familiar with BrE.
It confuses the hell out of me.
--
Lew
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 06:55:49 +0900, Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:39:48 -0800 (PST), uri <darkma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 4, 1:10 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite famous, then.
>>>>> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
>>>> I was waiting for that question!
>>>>
>>>> I think Leslie Danks used "quite" with its common BrE meaning of "moderately",
>>>> not its AmE meaning of "very".
>>>>
>>>> In BrE "quite" can mean "moderately" or "very" depending on context. This can
>>>> be quite confusing.
>>> Whom does it confuse? Not those of us who speak that way. I can't think
>>> of one instance where there has been an ambiguity - not even in print.
>>
>> It can confuse those who are not familiar with BrE.
>
>It confuses the hell out of me.
I think it was in this ng that British poster said that a family member in the
US had been taken ill. The word from American contacts was that the person was
"quite ill". This was understood to mean that the person was moderately ill:
serious enough to need a transatlantic journey, but not desperate. That was
not what the American was trying to convey. The person was very ill.
Roland Hutchinson
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:39:48 -0800 (PST), uri <darkma...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 4, 1:10 pm, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quite famous, then.
>>> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
>>
>> I was waiting for that question!
>>
>> I think Leslie Danks used "quite" with its common BrE meaning of
>> "moderately", not its AmE meaning of "very".
>>
>> In BrE "quite" can mean "moderately" or "very" depending on context. This
>> can be quite confusing.
>
> Quite.
Rather.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
tony cooper
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>I think it was in this ng that British poster said that a family member in the
>US had been taken ill. The word from American contacts was that the person was
>"quite ill". This was understood to mean that the person was moderately ill:
>serious enough to need a transatlantic journey, but not desperate. That was
>not what the American was trying to convey. The person was very ill.
If I reply to a post of yours, and you - in turn - reply to me saying
that you found my comments to be quite vexing, I might write back that
I understand that you are thoroughly pissed, and I'm quite sorry that
you are.
We could continue to exchange comments in which neither of us
understands the other's meaning.
LFS
Not for long, unless these were private communications, since there are
enough of us in aue to be able to put you right. Well, we might fan the
flames a little first...
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Pat Durkin
"Maria C." <conlo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GAwil.16116$yr3....@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Pat Durkin wrote:
>> Maria C. wrote, in part:
>
>>> Drew (Illinois) and Scott (California) have given the surname of
>>> "Peterson" a bad rap.
>>
>> Is that your maiden name, by any chance?
>
> No. Btw, my maiden name is a bit lower -- less common -- in the
> rankings* than Peterson.
>
> *See the US surname listing at:
> http://names.mongabay.com/most_common_surnames16.htm
>
> I just find the last name coincidence interesting. And I do
> understand that Drew may not be guilty of murder. (For those who don't
> know about Scott, a convicted murderer, and Drew, who is suspected by
> many to have murdered two of his wives, I'm sure there's plenty
> online.)
>
>> I am glad my surname is fairly rare, ...
>
> Number 4580 in the rankings.
>
>> ... for in some of my research I found some fellow Durkins had
>> somewhat redolent reputations.
>> (I mean, I looked up the
Durkins (paternal ggp) and the McKernans
McKernan, (maternal ggpa)
MCKERNAN 0.001 2,487 12775
DURKIN 0.003 7,461 4580
Wow, fewer McKernans? Before the copper mining economy of Montana
collapsed, I went on a trip out thataway. It seemed the entire phone
books of Helena and Butte consisted of McKernan names. Maybe they were
all female.
> McKernans? Your mother's people? Your g-grandfather's mother's
> surname?
>
>> ....who had been transported, and found very few McKernans in the
>> lists.) I have the suspicion that my great-grandfather Durkin got
>> out of Ireland just in time.
>
But then, I was looking at the ship manifests for those transported to
Australia. Hardly any McKernans, and loads of Durkins.
> Just think. If he hadn't left there at all, you'd probably be posting
> from the Emerald Isle. Or not, I suppose.
>
> --
> Maria C., whose father-in-law came to the US from Ireland in 1927 (at
> the age of 17).
We are trying to find our gggf McKernan's emigration date. One source
has a Patrick McKernan entering US in New Orleans (or jumping ship) in
1828. But I have my doubts. Our ggf emigrated to US in 1847 or '48,
age 18 or 20. But, again, no documentation.
tony cooper
A quite astute observation. There has never been a lack of people in
aue willing to put me right on anything.
the Omrud
Oh yes there has.
--
David
Don Phillipson
news:3ed34710-ec62-425b...@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > Quite famous, then.
>
> But if it means quite famous then what does the "semi-celeb" mean?
Especially in Brazil, people have probably forgotten the famous original
definition (in Daniel J Boorstin's The Image, 1961) that a celebrity is
someone well-known for being well-known (as distinct from someone
famous for some particular skill or achievement.) TV and magazines
have for 20 years chronicled the sex-lives and drinking habits of several
hundreds of "celebrities" ranging from heiresses to part-time actors.
"Semi-celeb" probably means someone anxious to get this sort of
celebrity news coverage but not famous enough to be sure of getting it.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
LFS
Thank you. It's a long time since any of my observations have been
described as astute.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> This reminds me that I've always meant to go to the Mudcat Forum and
>> find out the meaning of "Murshin Durkin". It seems like a first and
>> last name, but the lyrics indicate that it's a location:
>>
>> http://www.paddy.de/lyrics/songs/murshindurkin.html
>
> I think we had a recording of that song, "Goodbye, Missus Durkin",
> done by the Clancy Brothers, back in the '60s. We bought it for
> Mom. Another track on the album, I think, was "The Unicorn".
I don't believe that the Clancy Brothers ever recorded "The Unicorn",
but the Irish Rovers recorded both that and "Goodbye Mrs. Durkin" on
_The Unicorn_ in 1967.
The WIkipedia entry for the song Tony asked about says that it's a
name:
"Muirsheen Durkin" is a traditional Irish folk song about
emigration, although atypically optimistic for the genre. The name
"Muirsheen" is a good phonetic approximation to the pronunciation
of "Máirtín" (Martin) in the West of Ireland; it could
alternatively be construed as a diminutive of "Muiris" (Maurice).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muirsheen_Durkin
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |English is about as pure as a
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |cribhouse whore. We don't just
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |borrow words; on occasion, English
|has pursued other languages down
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |alleyways to beat them unconscious
(650)857-7572 |and rifle their pockets for new
|vocabulary.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --James D. Nicoll
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Indeed, it seems to be a mark of our modern culture that those who
> command very high pay (not the very highest, but well above the
> average) are employed in totally non-productive activities.
My immediate response was "as opposed to when?" But then I realized
that it may depend on what you mean by "productive". Most of the
highest paid people are involved in the production of entertainment
(movies, books, art, music), but that's not surprising, as that's one
of the few domains in which there are jobs for which consumers have an
interest in the identity of the producer, because (1) the identity is
known and (2) there is perceived to be a noticeable difference in
quality between individuals.
Are you considering production of entertainment to be non-productive?
How about production of goods and services to be used in the
production of entertainment? Was making Stradavarius violins a
"non-productive" activity?
The other classes of high-paid individual make (1) decisions and (2)
money for other people, both of which are arguably productive. While
I'll agree that many executives are wildly overpaid, a bad day's
performance by the CEO will often have a much greater impact on the
number and quality of widgets produced than a bad week by a dozen
people on the assembly line. And the guy who manages the mutual fund
probably did more to ensure the existence of my car (qua my car) as
the guy who put on the wheels.
But still, I'd think that it's probably easier to answer "What did
they produce?" for highly-paid people in our modern culture than at
most times in the past. Typically people were highly-paid beacuse
they made wealthy people happy. And most of the wealthy people
weren't "highly paid" because they weren't paid at all; they were just
wealthy.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |There is something fascinating
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |about science. One gets such
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |wholesale returns of conjecture out
|of such a trifling investment of
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |fact.
(650)857-7572 | Mark Twain
Pat Durkin
news:ab90bs...@hpl.hp.com
> "Pat Durkin" <dur...@sbc.com> writes:
>
>> "tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
>>> This reminds me that I've always meant to go to the Mudcat Forum and
>>> find out the meaning of "Murshin Durkin". It seems like a first and
>>> last name, but the lyrics indicate that it's a location:
>>>
>>> http://www.paddy.de/lyrics/songs/murshindurkin.html
>>
>> I think we had a recording of that song, "Goodbye, Missus Durkin",
>> done by the Clancy Brothers, back in the '60s. We bought it for
>> Mom. Another track on the album, I think, was "The Unicorn".
>
> I don't believe that the Clancy Brothers ever recorded "The Unicorn",
> but the Irish Rovers recorded both that and "Goodbye Mrs. Durkin" on
> _The Unicorn_ in 1967.
>
> The WIkipedia entry for the song Tony asked about says that it's a
> name:
>
> "Muirsheen Durkin" is a traditional Irish folk song about
> emigration, although atypically optimistic for the genre. The name
> "Muirsheen" is a good phonetic approximation to the pronunciation
> of "Máirtín" (Martin) in the West of Ireland; it could
> alternatively be construed as a diminutive of "Muiris" (Maurice).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muirsheen_Durkin
I guess I was wrong about the Clancy Brothers. Of course, I have heard
the ""Rovers". Someone else also mentioned the Irish Rovers. Anyway,
whoever sang the version we bought, pronounced it (and had on the label
of the album) Mrs (or Missus Durkin.
What a misplaced meaning if it really is "Maurice (Morris) Durkin". I
had an uncle by that name, so I can talk to my cousin about that. But I
think Morris had died by the time the song became popular. (We spelled
his name Morris, but have no explanation of why that spelling rather
than the other.)
Robert Bannister
Then again, we have to consider the BrE tendency towards understatement.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:21:17 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> I think it was in this ng that British poster said that a family member in the
>> US had been taken ill. The word from American contacts was that the person was
>> "quite ill". This was understood to mean that the person was moderately ill:
>> serious enough to need a transatlantic journey, but not desperate. That was
>> not what the American was trying to convey. The person was very ill.
>
> If I reply to a post of yours, and you - in turn - reply to me saying
> that you found my comments to be quite vexing, I might write back that
> I understand that you are thoroughly pissed, and I'm quite sorry that
> you are.
I'm betting you chose the word "pissed" deliberately, knowing full well
that being drunk is not necessarily a condition to be pitied.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
>
>> Indeed, it seems to be a mark of our modern culture that those who
>> command very high pay (not the very highest, but well above the
>> average) are employed in totally non-productive activities.
>
> My immediate response was "as opposed to when?" But then I realized
> that it may depend on what you mean by "productive". Most of the
> highest paid people are involved in the production of entertainment
>
> Are you considering production of entertainment to be non-productive?
Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once were
either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or for bored
rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were despised
(acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes. Sport, at
least outside the US, was very poorly paid within living memory. I admit
that I can't see any way in which this could be controlled: if 10
billion people want to hear a crap song, they will pay what they want.
> How about production of goods and services to be used in the
> production of entertainment? Was making Stradavarius violins a
> "non-productive" activity?
Interesting point that I hadn't considered. On top of that, there are
the agents and impresarios - not sure how many of those are highly paid
as it's a bit risky.
[big snip]
>
> But still, I'd think that it's probably easier to answer "What did
> they produce?" for highly-paid people in our modern culture than at
> most times in the past. Typically people were highly-paid beacuse
> they made wealthy people happy. And most of the wealthy people
> weren't "highly paid" because they weren't paid at all; they were just
> wealthy.
>
All good points - plus then, as now, many of the wealthiest simply
inherited the money/land.
--
Rob Bannister
tony cooper
Of course I did. The statement "I was pissed last night", in the US,
means "I was angry last night". However, some of do use "pissed" to
mean "drunk". In that case, we'd write "I got pissed last night".
Roland Hutchinson
> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once were
> either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or for bored
> rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were despised
> (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes.
Hey! Music was also a despised profession, and dancing was also a way for
rich people to fill their spare time.
I don't profess to know anything about acting...
J. J. Lodder
> What is a semi-celebrity?
FYA, 'celeb' translates into Dutch as 'bekende Nederlander'.
(lit. known Dutchman, or well-known Dutchman)
An semi-celeb becomes with some irony a 'bijna bekende Nederlander'
(lit. almost known Dutchman)
Jan
Pat Durkin
news:1iupm1s.14g...@de-ster.xs4all.nl
Is that related to Celebes?
Wiki:
The Portuguese were the first to refer to Sulawesi as 'Celebes'. The
meaning of this name is unclear; originally it did not refer to the
entire island as the Portuguese thought Sulawesi was an archipelago. The
modern name 'Sulawesi' possibly comes from the words sula ('island') and
besi ('iron') and may refer to the historical export of iron from the
rich Lake Matano iron deposits.[1]
Mike Lyle
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once
>> were either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or
>> for bored rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were
>> despised (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes.
>
> Hey! Music was also a despised profession,
But never restricted to relieving the ennui of the wealthy.
> and dancing was also a way
> for rich people to fill their spare time.
>
> I don't profess to know anything about acting...
And even if acting and dancing for a living weren't held to be wholly
respectable, they always seem to have gained good performers access to
higher society than would generally be encountered by most respectable
tradespeople.
--
Mike.
Dan McGrath
wrote:
>I am glad my surname is fairly [*]rare[*], for in some of my research I found
>some fellow Durkins had somewhat redolent reputations.
Why didn't you say "uncommon"? Or "unusual", "infrequent", or
"scarce"?
- Dan
--
Daniel G. McGrath
Binghamton, New York
e-mail: dmcg6174[AT]gmail[DOT]com
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
>>
>>> Indeed, it seems to be a mark of our modern culture that those who
>>> command very high pay (not the very highest, but well above the
>>> average) are employed in totally non-productive activities.
>> My immediate response was "as opposed to when?" But then I
>> realized that it may depend on what you mean by "productive". Most
>> of the highest paid people are involved in the production of
>> entertainment (movies, books, art, music) [snip] Are you
>> considering production of entertainment to be non-productive?
>
> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once
> were either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or
> for bored rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were
> despised (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high
> incomes.
I think it's not really all that surprising. Previously, the top
tiers were well-paid because they were patronized by the rich, but the
rich of each region had their own, because it wasn't practical to
share. Those below had very local audiences among the poor, and they
were often itinerant in order to make a living. Now, recording
(including publishing) and broadcast technology has made it possible
for the less-well-off in a vast region to patronize the same top-tier
people. If ten million people can each easily afford (and want) to
give you five bucks, you're going to do pretty well. (The calculation
doesn't materially change if they give the money to somebody else, who
gives you five bucks because they realize that the people are buying
the product because of you.)
> Sport, at least outside the US, was very poorly paid within living
> memory.
Even in the US. The pay went up as the exposure (via television)
allowed more people to decide that they enjoyed it and for advertisers
to realize that it was worth paying for their eyeballs.
> I admit that I can't see any way in which this could be controlled:
> if 10 billion people want to hear a crap song, they will pay what
> they want.
I suspect that this, also, isn't materially different. Back when only
the wealthy were patrons of highly-paid composers and authors, it
would surprise me greatly if many of them didn't support truly
attrocious ones, most of whom have, mercifully, been lost to the mists
of history.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If a bus station is where a bus
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |stops, and a train station is where
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |a train stops, what does that say
|about a workstation?
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
J. J. Lodder
> "J. J. Lodder" <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote in message
> news:1iupm1s.14g...@de-ster.xs4all.nl
> > uri <darkma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What is a semi-celebrity?
> >
> > FYA, 'celeb' translates into Dutch as 'bekende Nederlander'.
> > (lit. known Dutchman, or well-known Dutchman)
> > An semi-celeb becomes with some irony a 'bijna bekende Nederlander'
> > (lit. almost known Dutchman)
>
> Is that related to Celebes?
Not at all,
Jan
Pat Durkin
news:b3soo49ua4lfiuf4f...@4ax.com
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:01:09 -0600, "Pat Durkin" <dur...@sbc.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am glad my surname is fairly [*]rare[*], for in some of my
>> research I found some fellow Durkins had somewhat redolent
>> reputations.
>
> Why didn't you say "uncommon"? Or "unusual", "infrequent", or
> "scarce"?
Ha Ha! Hi, Dan. I just tested to see if you would catch it. But,
really, "rare" was the first word that came to mind. I have no problem
with it. Nope. None at all. Besides the fact that the word itself is
not rare, it is short and easy to spell and to the point.
Chuck Riggs
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once
>>> were either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or
>>> for bored rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were
>>> despised (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes.
>>
>> Hey! Music was also a despised profession,
>
>But never restricted to relieving the ennui of the wealthy.
Is "ennui" generally called "listlessness" or "boredom" when the
middle classes have it?
<snip>
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Sara Lorimer
> the Omrud wrote:
>
> > Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> >> In BrE "quite" can mean "moderately" or "very" depending on context. This
> >> can be quite confusing.
> >
> > Quite.
>
> Rather.
Not half.
--
SML
Roland Hutchinson
> Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once
>>> were either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or
>>> for bored rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were
>>> despised (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes.
>>
>> Hey! Music was also a despised profession,
>
> But never restricted to relieving the ennui of the wealthy.
Well, neither was dancing.
>> and dancing was also a way
>> for rich people to fill their spare time.
>>
>> I don't profess to know anything about acting...
>
> And even if acting and dancing for a living weren't held to be wholly
> respectable, they always seem to have gained good performers access to
> higher society than would generally be encountered by most respectable
> tradespeople.
Music, too. Traveling court-and-chapel musicians were used as ambassadors
towards the end of middle ages, for starters. The number one perk of
being Frederic the Great's flute teacher is that you got to correct
Fredrick, sometimes even in front of other people.
Roland Hutchinson
That's the stuff.
Frank ess
Roland Hutchinson wrote:
> Chuck Riggs wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:58:58 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
>> <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>>>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that
>>>>> once were either considered something for letting off steam
>>>>> (sport) or for bored rich people to fill in their spare time
>>>>> (music), or were despised (acting, dancing), now command
>>>>> ridiculously high incomes.
>>>>
>>>> Hey! Music was also a despised profession,
>>>
>>> But never restricted to relieving the ennui of the wealthy.
>>
>> Is "ennui" generally called "listlessness" or "boredom" when the
>> middle classes have it?
>
> That's the stuff.
Best savored at night.
"Ah, nuit". (My sister's license plate).
--
Frank ess
Robert Bannister
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fundamentally, yes. In fact, I find it amusing that jobs that once
>>>> were either considered something for letting off steam (sport) or
>>>> for bored rich people to fill in their spare time (music), or were
>>>> despised (acting, dancing), now command ridiculously high incomes.
>>> Hey! Music was also a despised profession,
>> But never restricted to relieving the ennui of the wealthy.
>
> Well, neither was dancing.
>
>>> and dancing was also a way
>>> for rich people to fill their spare time.
>>>
>>> I don't profess to know anything about acting...
>> And even if acting and dancing for a living weren't held to be wholly
>> respectable, they always seem to have gained good performers access to
>> higher society than would generally be encountered by most respectable
>> tradespeople.
>
> Music, too. Traveling court-and-chapel musicians were used as ambassadors
> towards the end of middle ages, for starters. The number one perk of
> being Frederic the Great's flute teacher is that you got to correct
> Fredrick, sometimes even in front of other people.
>
I don't even want to know what Richard Cœur de Lion used his minstrel for.
--
Rob Bannister
Paul Wolff
probably. Bonus score when he got one up the quiver.
--
Paul
musika
> for.
Didn't he cross Niagara Falls on a tightrope?
--
Ray
UK
Mike Lyle
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
[...]>>
>> I don't even want to know what Richard Cour de Lion used his
>> minstrel for.
> Blondie? The Tide is High, de dum de dum de Acre. Target practice,
> probably. Bonus score when he got one up the quiver.
After treatment like that, it's no surprise that he ran for it across
Niagara Falls on a tight-rope.
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
>> for.
>
> Didn't he cross Niagara Falls on a tightrope?
Damn. I really must learn to read a whole thread instead of undergoing
these embarrassing premature articulations.
--
Mike.